[Doomsday Economics] Home of Kirbeh's FREE SLICE ($25 delivery fee)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Doomsday Economics] Home of Kirbeh's FREE SLICE ($25 delivery fee)

«‹›2844 »

(Thread IKs: skooma512)

OH MY BAD: Feb 5, 2024; by Pragmatica

HashtagGirlboss posted:

I don�t need to hear about your oral sex routine buddy

haha your gay

# ? Feb 10, 2024 18:27

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 24, 2024 21:00

RealityWarCriminal: Aug 10, 2016

gradenko_2000 posted:

Weren't people taught how to write in school?

you'd be surprised

# ? Feb 10, 2024 18:33

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

gradenko_2000 posted:

Weren't people taught how to write in school?

This is what I keep saying.

I think, no offence to my esteemed posting colleagues, a lot of this is computer touchers thinking analytical work is beep boop arranging sentences and not about the actual thought behind those sentences. Beyond that, I would guess they think the the trivium and quadrivium are easier than computer science or something? People who can neither read nor write devalue the work of those that do because they don't understand it. This is the classic tech guy "disruption" mentality.

Even emails and routine correspondence are supposed to communicating ideas, and since AI can neither have the ideas nor communicate them, you can't automate these tasks.

# ? Feb 10, 2024 18:39

RandomBlue: Dec 30, 2012; hay guys!; Biscuit Hider

Captain Ironblood posted:

I work in compliance in a large company and I put Grammarly on the banned list because it's essentially just a keylogger, not to mention the AI training issue.

The spell check enabled in most apps and browsers by default does the same poo poo. Google also uses their spell check for targeted ads.

# ? Feb 10, 2024 18:45

Mandel Brotset: Jan 1, 2024

Frosted Flake posted:

trivium and quadrivium

hadnt heard of this until a few months ago, western education system ftw

# ? Feb 10, 2024 18:56

Rectal Death Alert: Apr 2, 2021

Frosted Flake posted:

This is what I keep saying.

I think, no offence to my esteemed posting colleagues, a lot of this is computer touchers thinking analytical work is beep boop arranging sentences and not about the actual thought behind those sentences. Beyond that, I would guess they think the the trivium and quadrivium are easier than computer science or something? People who can neither read nor write devalue the work of those that do because they don't understand it. This is the classic tech guy "disruption" mentality.

Even emails and routine correspondence are supposed to communicating ideas, and since AI can neither have the ideas nor communicate them, you can't automate these tasks.

most of the people trying to communicate these ideas are loving stupid it's a lot easier to automate these tasks then you think

# ? Feb 10, 2024 19:21

the milk machine: Jul 23, 2002; lick my keys

Rectal Death Alert posted:

most of the people trying to communicate these ideas are loving stupid it's a lot easier to automate these tasks then you think

you say that but all the current automation sucks rear end at it

# ? Feb 10, 2024 19:23

Potato Salad: Oct 23, 2014; nobody cares

err posted:

https://twitter.com/MacroEdgeRes/status/1756016887199084642

Beginning to wonder if switching to compensating upper management primarily through stock options in the 90s was a national security disaster

*looks over at number being up* yeah gently caress yeah! goal! score team America right there

# ? Feb 10, 2024 19:25

Rectal Death Alert: Apr 2, 2021

the milk machine posted:

you say that but all the current automation sucks rear end at it

yeah and AI art is just vague smears of colors and shapes
- 2022 Opinion

# ? Feb 10, 2024 19:25

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

Oh no, the narrative has been disrupted:

quote:

In an ever-evolving business landscape, the conventional wisdom surrounding office work is ripe for a thorough reassessment.

Recent studies, including Atlassian�s �Lessons Learned: 1,000 Days of Distributed at Atlassian� and Hubstaff�s detailed analysis of remote work productivity, provide compelling evidence that challenges long-held beliefs about the efficacy of traditional office environments.

Atlassian�s groundbreaking report, drawing on data from 200 CEOs from Fortune 500 and 1000 companies, delivers an unexpected verdict: mandating in-person work has minimal impact on productivity. This revelation is particularly striking as it comes from the upper echelons of corporate leadership, with one in three executives of companies that mandated some in-office work reporting that such physical office presence did not enhance productivity.

Hubstaff�s extensive research takes this conversation a step further. The data reveals that remote employees dedicate a substantial portion of their workweek to focused, undisturbed tasks, surpassing their office-based peers by a considerable margin.

The details how, on average, remote employees enjoy about 273 minutes of quality, uninterrupted work each day. In contrast, their office counterparts manage only 223 minutes.

The article continues. I was glad to have an ally even if it's this guy:

Gleb Tsipursky is CEO of the future-of-work consultancy Disaster Avoidance Experts and the author of best-sellers �Returning to the Office and Leading Hybrid and Remote Teams� and �ChatGPT for Thought Leaders and Content Creators.� He is a freelance contributing columnist for the Star and based in Columbus, Ohio.

# ? Feb 10, 2024 19:28

Potato Salad: Oct 23, 2014; nobody cares

I'm tired of the pump-a-quarter, fire-everyone, yay-max bonuses harm. it's ruining lives.

compensation in stock options hasn't "aligned management interest with the company"

it has aligned management interest with playing finance games, even if those games are massively harmful

# ? Feb 10, 2024 19:28

punished milkman: Dec 5, 2018; would have won

Precambrian Video Games posted:

Oh no, the narrative has been disrupted:

The article continues. I was glad to have an ally even if it's this guy:

Gleb Tsipursky is CEO of the future-of-work consultancy Disaster Avoidance Experts and the author of best-sellers �Returning to the Office and Leading Hybrid and Remote Teams� and �ChatGPT for Thought Leaders and Content Creators.� He is a freelance contributing columnist for the Star and based in Columbus, Ohio.

Gleb is a waste

# ? Feb 10, 2024 19:30

Potato Salad: Oct 23, 2014; nobody cares

yeah number is up

NUMBER OF PEOPLE LOOKING FOR loving WORK

# ? Feb 10, 2024 19:33

Paradoxish: Dec 19, 2003; Will you stop going crazy in there?

skaboomizzy posted:

how the gently caress does a "search engine rating firm" have 3700 employees to lay off and still keep operating

that's not a real job or company

Google, Amazon, and basically everyone use armies of third-party contractors for "rating" tasks that backstop search and ad results, classify data for models, etc. It's essentially MTurk stuff, but a very small step up since the raters are (sometimes) paid hourly instead of piecework, although in practice it usually works out the same either way. These aren't rich computer touchers; they're mostly pretty desperate people doing extremely poo poo work for minimum wage. I don't know how many raters Appen employs, but they probably still have thousands more working on other projects.

Appen/RaterLabs is/was a big one, so either Google just switched their contract to a different company or this is actually a pretty fundamental thing that's happening.

edit- it's the kind of "job" where the plausible deniability answer you'll get a lot is that it's mostly college students or people who need beer money but the reality is that it's people who are largely unemployable for one or reason or another, single parents who really need to work from home, people who need to cram a second job into whatever free time they have, etc.

Paradoxish has issued a correction as of 19:58 on Feb 10, 2024

# ? Feb 10, 2024 19:51

RandomBlue: Dec 30, 2012; hay guys!; Biscuit Hider

Potato Salad posted:

yeah number is up

NUMBER OF PEOPLE LOOKING FOR loving WORK

No those people have 5 gig jobs, which means we have negative unemployment now.

# ? Feb 10, 2024 19:54

Toph Bei Fong: Feb 29, 2008

Xaris posted:

lol i saw that. best of all it's from fuckin' FT

anyways Cory Doctorow did a video yesterday and it's mostly just the same poo poo he's been saying
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83SULjan-JM&t=5s

SA remaining the mail room clerk of social networks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKC8iPeIvEA

# ? Feb 10, 2024 19:57

H.P. Hovercraft: Jan 12, 2004; one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse; Slippery Tilde

Scarabrae posted:

now thats a franchise that destroyed itself overnight

waited too long and put out too much crap between 3 and 4

# ? Feb 10, 2024 20:11

Biplane: Jul 18, 2005

Precambrian Video Games posted:

Oh no, the narrative has been disrupted:

The article continues. I was glad to have an ally even if it's this guy:

Gleb Tsipursky is CEO of the future-of-work consultancy Disaster Avoidance Experts and the author of best-sellers “Returning to the Office and Leading Hybrid and Remote Teams” and “ChatGPT for Thought Leaders and Content Creators.” He is a freelance contributing columnist for the Star and based in Columbus, Ohio.

quote:

author of best-sellers “Returning to the Office and Leading Hybrid and Remote Teams” and “ChatGPT for Thought Leaders and Content Creators.”

Lmfao

# ? Feb 10, 2024 20:40

FirstnameLastname: Jul 10, 2022

Frosted Flake posted:

This is what I keep saying.

I think, no offence to my esteemed posting colleagues, a lot of this is computer touchers thinking analytical work is beep boop arranging sentences and not about the actual thought behind those sentences. Beyond that, I would guess they think the the trivium and quadrivium are easier than computer science or something? People who can neither read nor write devalue the work of those that do because they don't understand it. This is the classic tech guy "disruption" mentality.

Even emails and routine correspondence are supposed to communicating ideas, and since AI can neither have the ideas nor communicate them, you can't automate these tasks.

yep

# ? Feb 10, 2024 20:46

HashtagGirlboss: Jan 4, 2005

Potato Salad posted:

I'm tired of the pump-a-quarter, fire-everyone, yay-max bonuses harm. it's ruining lives.

compensation in stock options hasn't "aligned management interest with the company"

it has aligned management interest with playing finance games, even if those games are massively harmful

Have you tried being in the c suite though? I�m not responsible for your poor decisions salad guy

# ? Feb 10, 2024 20:48

DickParasite: Dec 2, 2004; Slippery Tilde

gradenko_2000 posted:

Weren't people taught how to write in school?

It turns out many in the last few decades weren't actually taught to read. Whoops! The last few pages of the Doomsday Education thread were pretty nuts.

Fortaleza posted:

I *did* however manage to find an NYRB article I'd been searching for that I thought this thread would appreciate. It's about a method of teaching kids to read that gained popularity in the 90s but apparently doesn't work well but it still sticks around because education funding isn't about what works

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2023/02/09/misreading-the-cues-sold-a-story-emily-hanford/

Not sure if it's behind paywall so here ya go:

The OP I quote has the entire article quoted, which I won't do here, but it's worth reading. Instead of teaching kids to sound-out words to learn how to read, we taught them to guess what a sentence says. If that sounds insane to you congratulations you know better than 75% of America's teachers.

quote:

...

The bad news, as Hanford makes clear in the six devastating episodes of Sold a Story, is that for the past thirty years, despite research that clearly established phonics as the best, the only, way to teach reading, many American schools clung to the pseudo-methods and fantasies of an educational approach known as �balanced literacy��or as Jessica Winter recently put it in The New Yorker, �literacy by vibes.�

The consequences have been grim. According to a 2022 Department of Education assessment, 67 percent of American fourth graders are not proficient readers. �The problem is even worse when you look beyond the average and focus on specific groups of children,� Hanford says. �The most alarming statistic: 82 percent of Black fourth graders are not proficient readers.� Some of these children will never get the help they need. ProPublica recently reported that one fifth of adults in the United States struggle with reading�a �silent literacy crisis.�

Debates over the best way to teach reading, and anxiety that American schools are failing to graduate good readers, go back more than a hundred years. Hanford�s story begins more recently, in 1960s New Zealand, where Marie Clay, a doctoral candidate in education, was studying how children learn to read. At that time, New Zealand schools were using something called the �book experience� method, which was derived from the �whole word� method.

In America, the whole-word method was taught through Dick and Jane books; New Zealand had a similar series, called Janet and John. The book-experience method replaced Janet and John with so-called little books that used more difficult vocabulary. The idea, as Hanford puts it, was that �learning to read is easier for kids�and more interesting�if they start with whole stories, whole sentences�not individual words.�

Calling this a �method� seems a bit grand. It was more like hopes and prayers, and it worked about as well. Clay, who wanted to help struggling readers, observed one hundred first graders and came to the conclusion that the good readers were not using phonics to decode words but were acting as �detectives,� looking for clues and cues in context. She decided to teach poor readers to do the same. The problem was that Clay was dead wrong about what the good readers were doing. They were so skilled at phonics that they didn�t appear to be sounding words out�but they were. The program Clay developed didn�t teach poor readers the secret techniques used by good readers�it standardized and institutionalized the things that poor readers do to cover up and compensate for the fact that they can�t sound words out.

In the 1990s two Americans, Irene Fountas and Gay Su Pinnell, launched a curricular empire of Guided Reading books, with different levels of difficulty and chock-full of pictures, along with separate assessments based on Clay�s research. Their approach has come to be known as �cueing� or �three-cueing.� The idea is that children should use context to guess at an unfamiliar word�s identity, and then ask themselves the following questions: Does my guess make sense? Does it sound right? And, finally, does it look right?

When Lucy Calkins, who had previously specialized in teaching writing, wanted to write a book about teaching reading, she turned to Pinnell for guidance. Calkins�s �balanced literacy approach,� which involves setting up classroom libraries of leveled books and using cueing to read them, became very popular. (It was mandated in most New York City elementary schools.) Among teachers, Calkins had celebrity status�a Palo Alto school board member is quoted as saying that �if Beyonc� came and gave a private concert in my district, it would not have been a bigger deal��and they applied in droves to attend her weeklong training sessions at the Columbia Teachers College.

Hanford estimates that the Calkins curriculum is used by one in four elementary schools in the United States, but cueing as a strategy is far more pervasive�as Education Week reported in 2020, according to a 2019 national survey, �75 percent of K�2 and elementary special education teachers use the method to teach students how to read, and 65 percent of college of education professors teach it.� But the situation has rather abruptly changed: in the past year, in light of increased media coverage of American children�s abysmal reading scores and a drumbeat of attention on the plentiful research on �the science of reading,� districts across the nation, including New York City, have abandoned or pledged to abandon cueing and return to phonics-based instruction.

Attention to the issue also increased during the Covid pandemic, when parents, who usually know little of what happens inside their children�s classrooms, were able to see for themselves how reading was being taught. Hanford begins her first episode with the story of Corinne, a mother who watched her son�s kindergarten teacher read a book to the class over Zoom in the spring of 2020. In the book, two kids run away from their dad because they don�t like the sandwiches he made. The teacher held up the book to the screen. The next sentence began: �Now they think their mom and dad will�� The end of the sentence was covered with a sticky note, and the teacher asked the children to guess what it might be. She told them they could think back to what had already happened in the story, or look at the pictures sprinkled through the text. �This seemed weird to Corinne,� Hanford says, offering a naive cliffhanger typical of public radio. �Why have kids guess the word? Why not have them look at the word and try to actually read it?�

Fountas and Pinnell�s guided reading program is troubling for many reasons. Their assessments have been demonstrated to be worthless. Students test all over the place, because their understanding depends not on their ability to decode words but rather on how much they already know about the subject of a given book. Most shockingly, Hanford reports that the interventions they offer for struggling readers lead to worse outcomes than no intervention at all.

As for cueing itself, it is almost sublime in its absurdity. Here is Fountas defending it in 2021:

If a reader says �pony� for �horse,� because of information from the pictures, that tells the teacher that the reader is using meaning information from the pictures. His response is partially correct, but the teacher needs to guide him to stop and work for accuracy.

It is good that a child can look at a picture and categorize an animal as belonging to the genus Equus, that he knows the large creature with a long mane is not a sheep or a goat. But it is hardly a radical position to note that looking at the letters h-o-r-s-e and saying the word �pony� is not partially accurate. It is wrong. �Pony� and �horse� are different words, much as �mother� and �child� are different words, as are �trumpet� and �trombone,� �bagel� and �baguette,� �same� and �different,� �correct� and �incorrect.� Ultimately, the examples become less comical. Hanford: �A middle school teacher gave me the example of a kid who thought that in 1939 Poland invited the Germans into their country. That�s a lot different from what really happened. The Germans invaded Poland.�

Sold a Story is a distressing and enraging piece of reporting. It unfolds like a true-crime narrative, but its fascination has much to do with the power of cult thinking. Early on, Hanford says that after she began publishing stories on �the science of reading,� she heard from many teachers who had never been offered an alternative to balanced literacy and �had no idea they weren�t teaching kids how to read.� But what did they think was going on? How did so many people convince themselves that �pony� and �horse� are the same word, or, at least, close enough? How did they convince themselves that the role of the teacher was to help the student slam her head against the wall rather than showing her how to open the door?

# ? Feb 10, 2024 20:52

shrike82: Jun 11, 2005

https://twitter.com/soren_iverson/status/1756086948819841370

# ? Feb 10, 2024 20:56

WrasslorMonkey: Mar 5, 2012

Gleb

# ? Feb 10, 2024 20:56

HashtagGirlboss: Jan 4, 2005

shrike82 posted:

https://twitter.com/soren_iverson/status/1756086948819841370

Cheeky ad but funeral services places have been doing this for decades

I don�t remember what it was in but I remember reading a novel where the guy had bought a cemetery plot and could only afford the fifty years package so his grandchild had to come pick up the corpse

# ? Feb 10, 2024 20:59

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

Potato Salad posted:

yeah number is up

NUMBER OF PEOPLE LOOKING FOR loving WORK

look, the rich have never been happier. Why aren't you rich? Have you tried being rich? There's no pleasing you people!

# ? Feb 10, 2024 21:07

Biplane: Jul 18, 2005

DickParasite posted:

It turns out many in the last few decades weren't actually taught to read. Whoops! The last few pages of the Doomsday Education thread were pretty nuts.

The OP I quote has the entire article quoted, which I won't do here, but it's worth reading. Instead of teaching kids to sound-out words to learn how to read, we taught them to guess what a sentence says. If that sounds insane to you congratulations you know better than 75% of America's teachers.

Ahahaha what the actual gently caress! The US really is doomed.

# ? Feb 10, 2024 21:09

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

DickParasite posted:

It turns out many in the last few decades weren't actually taught to read. Whoops! The last few pages of the Doomsday Education thread were pretty nuts.

The OP I quote has the entire article quoted, which I won't do here, but it's worth reading. Instead of teaching kids to sound-out words to learn how to read, we taught them to guess what a sentence says. If that sounds insane to you congratulations you know better than 75% of America's teachers.

I'm not sure what this means. If you don't know grammar and the parts of a sentence, and can't read the words to identify what they are grammatically (ideally knowing the vocabulary) what are you guessing based on?

I'm not being glib, I really don't understand. I had to read English Grammar for Students of Latin to finally pass Latin because I could not understand Wheelock's to save my life, so I'm not judging, just confused.

e: and I had to learn Greek from Hansen & Quinn. Learning languages was extremely painful for me, and my school published class lists so loving embarrassing too. I just feel like I had to bang my head against the wall to learn how to read each word and understand how sentences are constructed, so idk how the gently caress you can puzzle it out freestyle.

Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 21:17 on Feb 10, 2024

# ? Feb 10, 2024 21:14

Biplane: Jul 18, 2005

Frosted Flake posted:

I'm not sure what this means. If you don't know grammar and the parts of a sentence, and can't read the words to identify what they are grammatically (ideally knowing the vocabulary) what are you guessing based on?

I'm not being glib, I really don't understand. I had to read English Grammar for Students of Latin to finally pass Latin because I could not understand Wheelock's to save my life, so I'm not judging, just confused.

Vibes. It's literally vibe based. I can't stop laughing at this. It might be the stupidest thing I have ever learned about the US.

# ? Feb 10, 2024 21:17

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Biplane posted:

Vibes. It's literally vibe based. I can't stop laughing at this. It might be the stupidest thing I have ever learned about the US.

But you can't guess the vibes if you don't know the vocabulary or grammar?

A spoken language, sure, you can guess based on the tone*, but there are no vibes in written English.

*sometimes, some languages, some contexts etc etc

# ? Feb 10, 2024 21:18

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

lol Beijing could never hope to invent something like NVIDIA. America stays on top

# ? Feb 10, 2024 21:19

Biplane: Jul 18, 2005

Frosted Flake posted:

But you can't guess the vibes if you don't know the vocabulary or grammar?

A spoken language, sure, you can guess based on the tone*, but there are no vibes in written English.

*sometimes, some languages, some contexts etc etc

And that's why 1 in 5 americans apparently can't read!

# ? Feb 10, 2024 21:19

Real hurthling!: Sep 11, 2001

skooma512 posted:

Exiting hardware and focusing on just software worked really good for SEGA.

it will work even better for the company that owns minecraft and cod too

# ? Feb 10, 2024 21:23

DickParasite: Dec 2, 2004; Slippery Tilde

Frosted Flake posted:

I'm not sure what this means. If you don't know grammar and the parts of a sentence, and can't read the words to identify what they are grammatically (ideally knowing the vocabulary) what are you guessing based on?

What your teacher told you about the book and the pictures in the book. I'm not kidding.

# ? Feb 10, 2024 21:24

MickeyFinn: May 8, 2007; Biggie Smalls and Junior Mafia some mark ass bitches

Frosted Flake posted:

I'm not sure what this means. If you don't know grammar and the parts of a sentence, and can't read the words to identify what they are grammatically (ideally knowing the vocabulary) what are you guessing based on?

I'm not being glib, I really don't understand. I had to read English Grammar for Students of Latin to finally pass Latin because I could not understand Wheelock's to save my life, so I'm not judging, just confused.

e: and I had to learn Greek from Hansen & Quinn. Learning languages was extremely painful for me, and my school published class lists so loving embarrassing too. I just feel like I had to bang my head against the wall to learn how to read each word and understand how sentences are constructed, so idk how the gently caress you can puzzle it out freestyle.

I never understood anything of English grammar until I started trying to learn foreign languages.

The point of those new reading methods is that some people got to be popular and make money. None of the other details matter.

# ? Feb 10, 2024 21:28

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Biplane posted:

And that's why 1 in 5 americans apparently can't read!

Okay, so I'm guessing that what happened is this, please tell me if I'm on the right track:

Literacy is a mature technology, about 5000 years old or so.

Despite this, in America, "some" students, for "some" reason, can't read. (The reason is poverty. Parents helping with homework, reading materials at home, being encouraged to read, being read to from an early age, parental level of education, those are all proxies for poverty too.)

Addressing the actual material conditions causing illiteracy is not possible within the American imagination.

Therefore, some other cause must be identified. ( So that some solution, other than improving material conditions, can be pursued. )

This used to be done through scientific (or unscientific) racism, but that's increasingly unacceptable.

So, now, fake methods and metrics are used to give the illusion of literacy where possible (No Child Left Behind, Standardized Testing etc.)

Where not possible, fake methods of teaching are used, to give the illusion of addressing illiteracy.

Is that about right?

MickeyFinn posted:

I never understood anything of English grammar until I started trying to learn foreign languages.

Seriously. I think that's a problem with how English spelling is taught too. "Just memorize all the words" is not possible when you're an adult and can't be drip fed a tiny amount of vocabulary words over years. To actually learn and use a language you need to know how it works.

English Grammar for Students of (Foreign Language) is worth a read by anyone, I rate it very highly.

Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 21:30 on Feb 10, 2024

# ? Feb 10, 2024 21:28

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

DickParasite posted:

What your teacher told you about the book and the pictures in the book. I'm not kidding.

America reintroducing Zunftzeichen because people can no longer read signs (and so Number would be affected) is going to be complicated by people thinking Arby's is a millinery.

# ? Feb 10, 2024 21:35

DickParasite: Dec 2, 2004; Slippery Tilde

Frosted Flake posted:

Okay, so I'm guessing that what happened is this, please tell me if I'm on the right track:

Literacy is a mature technology, about 5000 years old or so.

Despite this, in America, "some" students, for "some" reason, can't read. (The reason is poverty. Parents helping with homework, reading materials at home, being encouraged to read, being read to from an early age, parental level of education, those are all proxies for poverty too.)

Addressing the actual material conditions causing illiteracy is not possible within the American imagination.

Therefore, some other cause must be identified. ( So that some solution, other than improving material conditions, can be pursued. )

This used to be done through scientific (or unscientific) racism, but that's increasingly unacceptable.

So, now, fake methods and metrics are used to give the illusion of literacy where possible (No Child Left Behind, Standardized Testing etc.)

Where not possible, fake methods of teaching are used, to give the illusion of addressing illiteracy.

Is that about right?

Seriously. I think that's a problem with how English spelling is taught too. "Just memorize all the words" is not possible when you're an adult and can't be drip fed a tiny amount of vocabulary words over years. To actually learn and use a language you need to know how it works.

English Grammar for Students of (Foreign Language) is worth a read by anyone, I rate it very highly.

No. We had a proven method, phonics, which is the mature technology you describe. It worked for centuries. Then in the 90s some disruptors convinced a bunch school boards they had a better technique. This is became known as "cueing" or as Biplane and others are calling it, the "vibes" method of reading.

Here's a comment from /r/Teachers on it:

"Reddit posted:

I listened and I was blown away! This podcast has sent ripples through elementary education. So many school districts have abruptly abandoned their existing programs for �science of reading� programs.

It shines a light on the reasons many American school children struggle with reading and graduate HS with shockingly low reading levels.

I�ve been working as an elementary teaching assistant for a few years, after a career in publishing and then 10 years raising my own children.

I was horrified at the way schools are run, and I�m working in a top rated suburban school district that does not lack for resources.

The cueing and the guessing rubbed me wrong way from day 1. We�ve switched to a �science of reading� curriculum, but minimal training for our teachers. This should help the kids in K and 1, but NO ONE wants to talk about remediating the older children.

The 4th graders still use their �look at the first letter and guess� strategy. They�ll come to a long word that starts with �in� and �read� whatever �in� word comes to mind! �Instead,� �invited,� and �incomplete� are three actual answers from three different 4th grade students who came across the word �inflicted.� Their reading comprehension is terrible because they are not reading the words on the page!

The 3rd, 4th, and 5th graders CANNOT SPELL. It�s so bad that even when using �spell check� on an essay, they can�t choose the word they intended because they have no idea what they look like. (For example, a student was writing about a castle. She spelled it phonetically: casul, and when she ran spell check she changed it to �casual.� �Despereaux was born in a casual.� )

I don�t know how these children will manage in middle school, let alone high school.

I�m not religious, but I thank God that I was fortunate enough to able to stay home with my children when they were small, and that I had them reading before they went to school.

The podcast she's referring to is Sold A Story, which blew the lid off this whole thing.

# ? Feb 10, 2024 21:40

silicone thrills: Jan 9, 2008; I paint things

That reading article actually makes some poo poo from a few years ago make a ton more sense. I had an intern at the service desk who just like could read but didn't seem to grasp a ton of concepts. And I tried to coach him through poo poo and just kept failing and I felt awful because I felt like I failed him when we didnt end up hiring him on long term because he was creating more work than helping on a day to day basis by constantly misinterpreting emails etc.

# ? Feb 10, 2024 21:43

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

DickParasite posted:

No. We had a proven method, phonics, which is the mature technology you describe. It worked for centuries. Then in the 90s some disruptors convinced a bunch school boards they had a better technique. This is became known as "cueing" or as Biplane and others are calling it, the "vibes" method of reading.

Here's a comment from /r/Teachers on it:

The podcast she's referring to is Sold A Story, which blew the lid off this whole thing.

# ? Feb 10, 2024 21:43

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 24, 2024 21:00

mistermojo: Jul 3, 2004

basically either your parents make you read books and you go to the AP English class in high school or youre thrown to the wolves to become an amazon package sorter

# ? Feb 10, 2024 21:46

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Doomsday Economics] Home of Kirbeh's FREE SLICE ($25 delivery fee)

«‹›2844 »