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Gripweed posted:I'm sorry, but this is nuts. You get that this is nuts, right? You are not morally obligated to vote for a genocidaire. You are in fact morally obligated to not do that. You do not pick between the lesser of two genocides, you refuse the question. The inaction of not endorsing genocide is always morally superior to the action of endorsing a genocide. If genocide is inevitable then at the very least do not stain your own soul by giving it your stamp of approval. Not voting doesn't stop the genocide from happening. It does help Trump win and make life worse for everybody.
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Feb 12, 2024 04:17
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Gripweed posted:I'm sorry, but this is nuts. You get that this is nuts, right? You are not morally obligated to vote for a genocidaire. You are in fact morally obligated to not do that. You do not pick between the lesser of two genocides, you refuse the question. The inaction of not endorsing genocide is always morally superior to the action of endorsing a genocide. If genocide is inevitable then at the very least do not stain your own soul by giving it your stamp of approval. You don't get to refuse the question. Inaction is a choice you make and it stains your soul just the same. You cleanse yourself by doing works in other areas to make sure this isn't the choice ever presented again. But not voting is giving half your stamp of approval to each candidate, as is voting for a third party in our current structure. The inability for posters to come to that same viewpoint is why this conversation is pointless. Some people think you can actually practically opt out.
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Feb 12, 2024 04:17
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Shadowlyger posted:Not voting doesn't stop the genocide from happening. Yeah and refusing to seig heil didn't stop the holocaust. But I certainly hope you would refuse to seig heil. Kagrenak posted:You don't get to refuse the question. Inaction is a choice you make and it stains your soul just the same. No it doesn't! By voting for a candidate who is materially supporting a genocide, you are giving your stamp of approval to genocide. There's no way around that. You can refuse to that. In this case, inaction is not giving your consent to a genocidaire. You are right that not voting is not a morally neutral action. In this case, it's a morally positive action because you are not throwing the tiny infinitesimal amount of democratic power behind genocide. Kagrenak posted:But not voting is giving half your stamp of approval to each candidate No that's not how the votes are counted. if you don't vote, you aren't supporting anyone. It's really common throughout the world to boycott an election in order to deny the government legitimacy. This is a normal thing! And it's a thing you can do, if the thought of supporting genocide offends you. Simply deny them your consent. Refuse to support
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Feb 12, 2024 04:23
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Gripweed posted:No that's not how the votes are counted. if you don't vote, you aren't supporting anyone. Not voting actually says that you don't care who wins and are totally okay with whatever the winner does once in office.
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Feb 12, 2024 04:24
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Shadowlyger posted:Not voting actually says that you're totally okay with whatever the winner does once in office. No? Who told you that? It's not true. As I said, election boycotts are a thing. They're real and sometimes they're powerful.
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Feb 12, 2024 04:25
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Apparently I asked my question in the thread at a bad time. Sorry. I am not American nor have I ever been to America. I'm concerned about the US elections for two main reasons: First that I have a several close friends in America who will be actively threatened by a second Trump administration and secondly because I have a great deal of anxiety about the topic of climate change. From my perspective as an outsider I want Joe Biden to win because I am very concerned about the safety of my friends and because he's the only candidate who, even if insufficient, can achieve anything at all when it comes to carbon emissions. The other option is Trump and he is only going to make both of those worse which scares me very, VERY deeply. I know I'm not the only one and I think this perspective is something worth considering. Please. If you can't bring yourself to vote for Biden then at the very least, I'm begging you all, don't do anything that will enable Trump.
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Feb 12, 2024 04:26
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Gripweed posted:No? Who told you that? It's not true. It is true. Withholding your vote will not stop there being a winner and will not stop them from doing stuff once in office. If you cared about what they do once they're there, you'd have voted.
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Feb 12, 2024 04:27
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Sure are a lot of circles that we went through to just arrive at "no matter what you do, all citizens of the US endorse genocide"
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Feb 12, 2024 04:30
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This post was too inflammatory and made with emotion./edit
Pleasant Friend fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Feb 12, 2024 |
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Feb 12, 2024 04:32
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Shadowlyger posted:It is true. Withholding your vote will not stop there being a winner and will not stop them from doing stuff once in office. If you cared about what they do once they're there, you'd have voted. If you don't vote, you're okay with Biden or Trump committing genocide, because otherwise you would vote against them. If you do vote, you're okay with Biden (or Trump) committing genocide, because you voted for them knowing how they behave.
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Feb 12, 2024 04:33
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We absolutely don’t need another “does voting matter?” retread in the current events thread, especially while the Super Bowl is in OT. Make a thread if you desperately want to continue it.
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Feb 12, 2024 04:35
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Not voting is not inaction, it is itself an action. I hope that anyone with that conviction will, like myself, be working in other avenues. To abstain and do nothing is pointlessness, to abstain and work on political projects outside of the presidential election is meaningful -- though no doubt, it will still invite plenty of criticism from this thread.
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Feb 12, 2024 04:36
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edit: ah, I see the argument has been ended
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Feb 12, 2024 04:37
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Axetrain posted:Biden supporters are the brain broken ones, they don't have anything more than genocide defense at this point. Also in Trump's theoretical Genocide+1 they will be doing the same thing they always do, fully supporting the mass murder of brown people abroad. There's nothing theoretical about Trump exceeding Obama's drone strikes in his first 2 years, nor Biden pretty much ending them, nor Trump assassinating Soleimani which may have led to Oct 7 and what you're seeing in Gaza right now.
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Feb 12, 2024 04:38
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edit: nvm, in a bad mood
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Feb 12, 2024 04:40
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Digamma-F-Wau posted:Watch as some right wing domestic terrorist manages to assassinate both Biden and Harris, Mike Johnson becomes president, picks Trump as his VP, then immediately resigns to make Trump president because "it's the will of the people" or whatever bullshit, and Trump & co get a year heads start on project 2025, nukes Gaza, and renders this whole argument moot by causing the stuff the people arguing in this thread wanted to prevent before the election even loving happens I think that series of events is extremely unlikely.
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Feb 12, 2024 04:41
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Baronash posted:We absolutely don’t need another “does voting matter?” retread in the current events thread, especially while the Super Bowl is in OT. Make a thread if you desperately want to continue it. At last ... the age of peace ...
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Feb 12, 2024 04:42
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Captain Fargle posted:Apparently I asked my question in the thread at a bad time. Sorry. Are your friends currently being bombed by Israel? If not, people here don’t care. Trans rights, unionization, Ukraine, Eastern Europe, none of that matters. Gaza is literally the only thing happening in the world right now. In fact, there are people in this thread ready to call you out for vote shaming because you care about your friends and immediate family instead of the innocent lives in Gaza. You should be grateful to sacrifice your friends so the posters here can keep a clean conscience you genocide enabler you! This post is satirical because I’m in the same boat as you are and the myopic views in this thread and elsewhere on social media are absolutely depressing.
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Feb 12, 2024 04:48
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“If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice.” — old Canadian proverb.
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Feb 12, 2024 04:59
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Baronash posted:We absolutely don’t need another “does voting matter?” retread in the current events thread, especially while the Super Bowl is in OT. Make a thread if you desperately want to continue it. Taylor Swift scored a touchdown
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Feb 12, 2024 04:59
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I guess they’ll do the endorsement after the trophy presentation
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Feb 12, 2024 05:00
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RBA Starblade posted:Taylor Swift scored a touchdown Speaking of which: https://x.com/joebiden/status/1756888470599967000?s=46&t=bfbUdXZ7wtKr5Ce8r1pCkQ
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Feb 12, 2024 05:00
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So, current events? Austin's back in the hospital, though this time he has officially notified everyone and delegated his duties. https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/11/politics/defense-secretary-lloyd-austin-hospital/index.html quote:Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin transferred his duties to his deputy as he is hospitalized for treatment for symptoms “suggesting an emergent bladder issue,” according to the Pentagon.
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Feb 12, 2024 05:10
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Fifteen of Many posted:Speaking of which: I'm glad Mike Gravel's Rude Teens got jobs with the Biden administration.
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Feb 12, 2024 05:14
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feeling like the secretary of defense should stop inserting objects into his orifices
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Feb 12, 2024 05:24
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Look in the military they’re always sounding off.
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Feb 12, 2024 05:28
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Google Jeb Bush posted:feeling like the secretary of defense should stop inserting objects into his orifices What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, which is the best defense. Perhaps we should be asking why he's the first Secretary to so boldly increase defense.
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Feb 12, 2024 05:32
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Google Jeb Bush posted:feeling like the secretary of defense should stop inserting objects into his orifices He badly misunderstood the briefing on explosively formed penetrators
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Feb 12, 2024 05:34
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Since it's a new thread, I'd like to reiterate:Koos Group posted:Hello all. I've received some complaints about the perennial accelerationism vs. incrementalism and voting vs. not voting arguments cropping up in this thread recently without enough interesting material to justify the amount of posts spent on it. So, from here on, I ask that when dealing with these topics everyone take particular time and use particular effort to make sure that your arguments are original or rigorous. By originality, I mean that it is not rhetoric everyone is likely to have heard before, but is a way of framing these issues and supporting your side that you yourself have come up with. And by rigor, I mean including historical examples where something did or didn't work, specific predictions of what might happen, detailed descriptions of the political systems where they would be applied, etc. Koos Group posted:Hello all. The "electoralism" discussion a few days ago was, with all due respect, an embarrassment. As such, I'm going to be instituting martial law around that subject. You can still discuss it if it comes up again, but any rule violations while doing so will have a 1-day minimum probation - and presenting talking points everyone has heard before that are not falsifiable or a direct response to another argument is, as a reminder, against the rules. I still intend to make a thread for this particular area of debate and discussion soon, so that people can more easily see what's been previously argued, and so that one can choose to opt in or out depending on their interest.
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Feb 12, 2024 06:18
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https://twitter.com/RobertKennedyJr/status/1756900265368723562 Don't you hate it when you accidentally air a Super Bowl ad? edit: The ad which is completely unaffiliated with the RFK Jr. presidential campaign is also pinned on the RobertKennedyJr twitter account 
James Garfield fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Feb 12, 2024 |
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Feb 12, 2024 06:29
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James Garfield posted:https://twitter.com/RobertKennedyJr/status/1756900265368723562 The best part is that the ad is pinned on his Twitter profile.  EDIT: beaten
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Feb 12, 2024 06:37
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Kammat posted:So, current events? Austin's back in the hospital, though this time he has officially notified everyone and delegated his duties. I assume he got read the riot act more than maybe anyone else ever has, after the last debacle
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Feb 12, 2024 08:51
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Rand Brittain posted:Deontology leads to a position where it's morally correct to butcher a billion people rather than make any ethical compromises at all. Well, tautologically, if you are butchering a billion people without making ethical compromises, it is morally correct. Score one for deontology, I guess.
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Feb 12, 2024 10:34
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James Garfield posted:https://twitter.com/RobertKennedyJr/status/1756900265368723562 My parents saw it and thought it was dumb and gross. I don’t know anyone outside chuds who even like Kennedy jr anymore.
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Feb 12, 2024 12:13
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Google Jeb Bush posted:feeling like the secretary of defense should stop inserting objects into his orifices Was he playing in a chess tournament or something?
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Feb 12, 2024 13:56
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RFK Jr is running solely on his last name, people finding more out about him is the worst possible thing for his campaign.
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Feb 12, 2024 15:11
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Dapper_Swindler posted:My parents saw it and thought it was dumb and gross. I don’t know anyone outside chuds who even like Kennedy jr anymore. I don't know if it was especially gross, but it was a totally shameless attempt to associate himself with JFK and imply that he has the family endorsement. All the Shrivers and Kennedys who were upset with him with mostly upset that he was implying that the Kennedy family and JFK were behind his anti-vaccine theories (especially since two of the Shrivers currently run vaccination charities and the RED campaign anti-HIV and international vaccination programs).
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Feb 12, 2024 15:13
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I didn't watch anything yesterday, why was the ad bad enough it needed to be apologized for?
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Feb 12, 2024 15:13
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I didn't watch anything yesterday, why was the ad bad enough it needed to be apologized for?  He's so mortified that it's his pinned tweet.
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Feb 12, 2024 15:16
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I didn't watch anything yesterday, why was the ad bad enough it needed to be apologized for? He took an old 1960 JFK campaign ad and photoshopped his head over JFK's body, but kept everything else and implied the entire Kennedy family was behind him. Then, directed everyone to a website to donate money that also listed his major campaign issues and includes sections about vaccine "choice" and the potential dangers of getting too many vaccines at once. Edit: And two of the Shriver/Kennedy family members currently work for anti-HIV and international vaccination charities, so they were very unhappy about the insinuation that the Kennedy family supported him and seeing their father/uncle photoshopped to endorse that. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Feb 12, 2024 |
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Feb 12, 2024 15:17
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