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Magmarashi posted:It depends on how much of the 'in-development' time was actually it being worked on and not just put on a shelf until time allowed to touch it again From the sounds of it, it did have a lot of people working on it for a long time, but it was just a very mismanaged project, and with all the procedural generated stuff they couldn't figure out how to get the game to work, so a lot of work was wasted as they trying to figure out what the game was even meant to be. Still have to pay for all the time work on a project even if none of that work ended up in the final game.
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Feb 13, 2024 00:08
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Cyrano4747 posted:Yeah, it sold really well. I've seen estimates around 2 million copies and Microsoft is claiming something nuts like three times that installs via XBGP. They also said in an earnings call that they saw a massive spike in XBGP subs - including the highest single day total ever - right before Starfield launched. These are very good points. Over the next ten years Starfield certainly won't be selling like Skyrim did for the past decade. That's a lot of projected revenue that won't be materialising.
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Feb 13, 2024 02:23
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i guess they figured people would be in so much awe over their perfect masterpiece itd buy them a few months to figure out how to put an Eat button on the food
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Feb 13, 2024 02:27
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Megazver posted:Starfield: Most Innovative Game of the Year edition
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Feb 13, 2024 02:28
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Cyrano4747 posted:The real question is how many pre-orders and day 1 sales the next big Beth title gets. Maybe they drag out development of the next TES game enough that people forget about this or assume it will be different. I mean the last Big Bethesda Game was Fallout 76, and the one before was Fallout 4, which uh...well, I think Skyrim got at least 3 re-releases between FO4 and now and I haven't heard anything about a Fallout 4 SE, is all I guess you could make a fair argument that they keep re-releasing Skyrim so people think about Skyrim when preordering instead of whatever the more recent, not-as-well-recieved Bethesda game is
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Feb 13, 2024 02:39
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Cyrano4747 posted:Yeah, it sold really well. I've seen estimates around 2 million copies and Microsoft is claiming something nuts like three times that installs via XBGP. They also said in an earnings call that they saw a massive spike in XBGP subs - including the highest single day total ever - right before Starfield launched. Bethesda hates the idea of optimizing Starfield for the Steam Deck (pretty much the low end benchmark of pc games for today) amd the Modders are nooot happy with Skyrim that's enough for me to wait and see for TES6 I think if Bethesda delists Fallout 3 and NV on some grody fake upgrade, thatd be it for me for their games in general
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Feb 13, 2024 02:50
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wizard2 posted:Bethesda hates the idea of optimizing Starfield for the Steam Deck (pretty much the low end benchmark of pc games for today) amd the Modders are nooot happy with Skyrim the fact that they said "no we absolutely cannot possibly optimize starfield, get a better computer" for gestures broadly is absolutely wild to me tbh
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Feb 13, 2024 02:53
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All the market really wants is "first person open world RPG game". Unreal is right over there, any company can make one. On that note I have no idea of Avowed will be good or bad but that's due out later this year. If Obsidian delivers "average to okay" at worst that may be enough to gain primacy in the market segment.
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Feb 13, 2024 02:57
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Earlier in the thread there was somebody saying something like "of course TES6 will be different and won't have the same problems as Starfield" and when poked at a bit they said it'd be one cohesive landmass so that should avoid the issue. I guess I don't see that as being a given. It seems like the Bethesda that made Starfield would have just as much trouble filling in some large landmass in Tamriel, especially if they're aiming to put out something more expansive or more dense (or both) than Skyrim. There's clearly a ton of uncertainty and lack of confidence in building gameplay mechanics, too, which is a whole separate issue from just filling in a large area with quests and locations. The studio just seems like it's struggling in general. If they don't deliver a creation kit for Starfield that's going to be a really bad sign.
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Feb 13, 2024 02:59
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:the fact that they said "no we absolutely cannot possibly optimize starfield, get a better computer" for It was almost as good as this old xbox quote by Don Mattrick https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_JVVUnCWnY Paraphrasing: "If you want to play games offline then just buy our old console that lets you do that lol" Glorious tone deafness like that is the product of being surrounded entirely by sycophants and shutting out any dissenting thoughts.
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Feb 13, 2024 03:01
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DancingShade posted:All the market really wants is "first person open world RPG game". Nah stuff that, give me third-person or give me death
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Feb 13, 2024 03:03
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webmeister posted:Nah stuff that, give me third-person or give me death We would probably both enjoy a modern remaster / remake of Divinity 2: The Dragon Knight Saga. However as Larian has their plate full of other success stories such a thing is unlikely this decade or next.
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Feb 13, 2024 03:19
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Tiny Timbs posted:I guess I don't see that as being a given. It seems like the Bethesda that made Starfield would have just as much trouble filling in some large landmass in Tamriel, especially if they're aiming to put out something more expansive or more dense (or both) than Skyrim. Yeah there seems to be people at Bethesda management who just really want everything to be as expansive as possible, and if they go expansive there is a good chance they will still gently caress up and not have enough content. They really need to focus on deep, but that also means getting more and better writers. They easily have the talent between all the studios they have to make a good TS6 game. I mean for all of fall76 faults at least the map was varied and interesting. Tiny Timbs posted:There's clearly a ton of uncertainty and lack of confidence in building gameplay mechanics, too, which is a whole separate issue from just filling in a large area with quests and locations. That's also a big problem. Like Starfield showed they are trying to shake up their gameplay mechanics with different skills systems and what not, it's just it didn't really work at all. Again if they just try for a smaller denser game it would be easier to hone that stuff in. (I'm fully expecting them to chuck in some weird castle building mechanic or some other random bullshit that doesn't really work and adds nothing to the gameplay)
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Feb 13, 2024 03:27
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:I mean the last Big Bethesda Game was Fallout 76, and the one before was Fallout 4, which uh...well, I think Skyrim got at least 3 re-releases between FO4 and now and I haven't heard anything about a Fallout 4 SE, is all People (rightly or wrongly) largely gave them a mulligan on 76 for being their first online game, the various (not accurate) arguments that it wasn't the main studio making it, etc. And for all its faults, FO4 was a successful and fairly well received game. Yeah, nerds on forums and the No Mutants Allowed types have decreed it to be the worst thing in the history of human endeavor, but it's fine. It has its issues, and everyone loves to make fun of the plot, but at the end of the day it works perfectly well as a world to explore and do fun poo poo in. It's certainly no worse than FO3 in any of those regards, and frankly I'd argue it's better. Really its biggest sin for most people is not being FONV. Starfield is none of this. Starfield is Bethesda doing what is arguably its core competency - making a sprawling, epic single player game - and making GBS threads the bed so profoundly that there's really no defending it. This isn't something that nerds are nitpicking because there are lore problems when stacked up against a game from the 90s made by a different studio, or something with cringe-y plot poo poo, it's fundamentally broken on a core level. The mechanics are hosed. The world that they have created is hosed, deeply. Map design is poo poo. The plot is hosed but not in the normal "where's my SON?!?!?" type bad writing way but in how the core narrative conceit - NG+ and exploring multiverses - flies in the face of the basic gameplay loop that they've established since Morrowind, at least, and gently caress maybe even Daggerfall.
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Feb 13, 2024 03:37
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Also just on a fundamental level they played it incredibly safe with the sci-fi setting to the point it's just really boring and generic. No risks were taken.
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Feb 13, 2024 03:42
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Fantasy settlement building could be really fun if they pull it off. There's no way they won't at least try.
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Feb 13, 2024 03:56
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DancingShade posted:It was almost as good as this old xbox quote by Don Mattrick https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_JVVUnCWnY they ate poo poo for that but in the end they were kinda right
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Feb 13, 2024 04:18
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webmeister posted:Nah stuff that, give me third-person or give me death they should remake saints row 2
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Feb 13, 2024 04:27
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Building a castle and flying over to vivec city and crashing it into that moon that's all chained up
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Feb 13, 2024 04:31
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moist turtleneck posted:Building a castle and flying over to vivec city and crashing it into that moon that's all chained up They crashed the moon in Skyrim and said it wiped out the entire island so that nobody could ask them for another Vvardenfell game ever again. Thank god for no more giant big cities and mushroom towers and fun poo poo. Love my generic Viking Knight Dragon Wizards instead. Then they ran out of ideas for Elder Scrolls Online so you go back in time to Vvardenfell apparently. I really didn’t like Fallout 4 and didn’t finish it. No idea why I thought Starfield would be better. It wasn’t.
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Feb 13, 2024 04:34
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space uncle posted:They crashed the moon in Skyrim and said it wiped out the entire island so that nobody could ask them for another Vvardenfell game ever again. Thank god for no more giant big cities and mushroom towers and fun poo poo. Love my generic Viking Knight Dragon Wizards instead. ESO is entirely in the past, sorta like The Old Republic
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Feb 13, 2024 04:37
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space uncle posted:They crashed the moon in Skyrim and said it wiped out the entire island so that nobody could ask them for another Vvardenfell game ever again. Thank god for no more giant big cities and mushroom towers and fun poo poo. Love my generic Viking Knight Dragon Wizards instead. It rules that prissy Bethesda creatives were so upset that players didn't like their newer Original Content Please Do Not Steal as much as classic Morrowind that they destroyed the entire setting permanently in an indignent "gently caress you" rage of jealously.
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Feb 13, 2024 04:56
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DancingShade posted:It rules that prissy Bethesda creatives were so upset that players didn't like their newer Original Content Please Do Not Steal as much as classic Morrowind that they destroyed the entire setting permanently in an indignent "gently caress you" rage of jealously. I don’t think that’s why the blew up Vvardenfell.
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Feb 13, 2024 04:58
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DancingShade posted:It rules that prissy Bethesda creatives were so upset that players didn't like their newer Original Content Please Do Not Steal as much as classic Morrowind that they destroyed the entire setting permanently in an indignent "gently caress you" rage of jealously. Yeah, sure man, totally
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Feb 13, 2024 05:39
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space uncle posted:I really didn’t like Fallout 4 and didn’t finish it. No idea why I thought Starfield would be better. It wasn’t. I've played through Fallout 4 I think 5 times. I get some of the criticisms but I obviously enjoyed it. I doubt I'll ever finish Starfield once and one of the big things about it is playing NG+.
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Feb 13, 2024 08:28
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The problem with Bethesda is that they didn't want to just be "the TES people", but TES is the thing they do best and fantasy settings are the more widely appealing to players. Was hoping Starfield would kind of reignite my faith, and enjoyed it a lot in the first playthrough, but unlike all TES before (yes, even Oblivion), once it was done, I didn't feel like going back. Will wait and see what the mod scene becomes, but I'm not holding my breath seeing how the game momentum seems to have dropped so much even before the modding tools release.
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Feb 13, 2024 10:58
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Starfield doesn't have enough stuff in it to warrant multiple playthroughs.
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Feb 13, 2024 11:08
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Sandepande posted:Starfield doesn't have enough stuff in it to warrant multiple playthroughs. It's kind of worse in that the main draw to replaying it (the NG+ changes) directly goes against the entire base building thing.
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Feb 13, 2024 11:17
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Sandepande posted:Starfield doesn't have enough stuff in it to warrant multiple playthroughs. It totally could have, is the worst part. If faction/side quests had an impact and locked each other out there’d be a reason to reset but Bethsoft is so loving allergic to the idea of a player missing anything that you can be King poo poo of the UC vanguard and also lead the Crimson Fleet to victory over the UC in the same playthrough.
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Feb 13, 2024 14:04
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FishMcCool posted:It's kind of worse in that the main draw to replaying it (the NG+ changes) directly goes against the entire base building thing.
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Feb 13, 2024 14:10
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orcane posted:Yeah I'd be more open towards "rinse and repeat to gain ~more power~" if 95% of it wasn't the same thing as last playthrough, while you lose everything that potentially took hours to set up properly (exploration, outposts, ships, perfect gear loadouts). It devalues the entire "core" experience of Starfield. But you can get a slightly better shout. Which might be appealing if locked in a bunker at the bottom of a disused coal mine with no competing time sinks or video games available.
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Feb 13, 2024 14:17
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You're right, brb starting a new playthrough!
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Feb 13, 2024 14:23
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Starfield has a lot of flaws but more POIs to explore could have papered over some of it. It's a drat shame they are taking so long to get the CK out otherwise people would have made a bunch already.
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Feb 13, 2024 14:29
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orcane posted:Yeah I'd be more open towards "rinse and repeat to gain ~more power~" if 95% of it wasn't the same thing as last playthrough, while you lose everything that potentially took hours to set up properly (exploration, outposts, ships, perfect gear loadouts). It devalues the entire "core" experience of Starfield. The fact that all but one of the variant intros, which are rare as it is, are “constellation doesn’t exist anymore but everything else is the same” shows how creatively bankrupt the game is. Like… at least put in a few twists on quests or something.
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Feb 13, 2024 14:36
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it's like they just didn't feel like trying too hard
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Feb 13, 2024 14:40
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isndl posted:Starfield has a lot of flaws but more POIs to explore could have papered over some of it. It's a drat shame they are taking so long to get the CK out otherwise people would have made a bunch already. With the modular engine they developed for ships/outposts, I find it criminal that POIs don't tap into it, and instead you get the exact same copy/paste "bad guys building POI" down to the same dead bodies in the same poses. Sure, Daggerfall's dungeons went over the top with the mazes, but that's fixable. And well, the game could also have done with Daggerfall style cities, even if 99% had been plot-pointless personal housing. If there ever was a game making a case for this, Starfield should have been it. I fully accept that I'm the minority on this, but drat, I miss Daggerfall's ambition and feeling of scale. I hope someone goes back to wild full blown proc gen at some point. Right now, I feel like Dwarf Fortress is the last torchbearer for it, and that's in a different genre altogether.
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Feb 13, 2024 14:41
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FishMcCool posted:With the modular engine they developed for ships/outposts, I find it criminal that POIs don't tap into it, and instead you get the exact same copy/paste "bad guys building POI" down to the same dead bodies in the same poses. Sure, Daggerfall's dungeons went over the top with the mazes, but that's fixable. And well, the game could also have done with Daggerfall style cities, even if 99% had been plot-pointless personal housing. If there ever was a game making a case for this, Starfield should have been it. This is kind of a different genre, but check out https://store.steampowered.com/app/986130/Shadows_of_Doubt/
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Feb 13, 2024 14:48
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I keep thinking of No Man's Sky, because it's another open world procgen space game. That game papers over the emptiness by having varied landscapes and fun alien life to look at and catalogue. There are POIs scattered across the landscape (crashed spaceships, landing pads, ruined bases, etc), pretty far apart, but you can explore and find a cool-looking vista or cave between them. Maybe there's a plant or rock you haven't seen. Is there a point to scanning and registering animal species in Starfield? In NMS you get some money for doing it, as well as making number go up. Philippe fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Feb 13, 2024 |
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Feb 13, 2024 14:52
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orcane posted:Yeah I'd be more open towards "rinse and repeat to gain ~more power~" if 95% of it wasn't the same thing as last playthrough, while you lose everything that potentially took hours to set up properly (exploration, outposts, ships, perfect gear loadouts). It devalues the entire "core" experience of Starfield. And it should come with an optional respec, imo
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Feb 13, 2024 14:54
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FishMcCool posted:With the modular engine they developed for ships/outposts, I find it criminal that POIs don't tap into it, and instead you get the exact same copy/paste "bad guys building POI" down to the same dead bodies in the same poses. Sure, Daggerfall's dungeons went over the top with the mazes, but that's fixable. And well, the game could also have done with Daggerfall style cities, even if 99% had been plot-pointless personal housing. If there ever was a game making a case for this, Starfield should have been it. I think the copy-pasted POIs is my biggest issue with Starfield. There’s no desire in exploring. If they had a random system of parts being cobbled together on the fly, with interesting loot tables and whatnot, I might have stuck around, but I hard bounced immediately upon the second visit to an Abandoned Robotics Facility with the same scientist smeared by a fallen catwalk.
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Feb 13, 2024 15:03
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