|
Nodosaur posted:Not gonna lie to you guys, an important part of my fic is Charlie trying to grapple between whether it’d be better to redeem everyone in Hell or focus on making Hell itself a better place. I realize that’s a big shift for the series, but it seems like a logical route to go after Exterminations can be warded off. I actually think this is going be a major plot point in the show itself down the line so this is totally valid to me. I feel like the redeeming sinners is going to be her first order of business. But as she really starts to come into her own her and Lucifer are probably going to concentrate more on actually improving hell as a whole after he was absent and apathetic about it for literal millennia.
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 00:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 11:41 |
|
|
Nodosaur posted:(What do you think of my summaries btw) I think you're going to be crashing headfirst into a lot of conflicting info once S2 appears, but if you're fine with being an AU fic, go for it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 00:58
|
|
|
My thing is: "Better hell" is just Earth but you can't die by most means. And unless Charlie wants to get real dictatorial about it, there's really no way to make the Pride ring much better because, as much as people wanted there to be some kind of twist on this, it really is where all the shittiest people end up, even though less lovely people also end up there, and amassing power in a very literal sense comes from amoral to immoral acts. She can definitely carve out a sanctuary territory, but improving the whole of the Pride ring means stamping out a whole lot of people whose only complaint is the exterminations.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 01:00
|
|
|
Madurai posted:I think you're going to be crashing headfirst into a lot of conflicting info once S2 appears, but if you're fine with being an AU fic, go for it. Yeah I’m gonna basically be putting up a disclaimer that says this is a canon divergence Adder Moray posted:My thing is: "Better hell" is just Earth but you can't die by most means. And unless Charlie wants to get real dictatorial about it, there's really no way to make the Pride ring much better because, as much as people wanted there to be some kind of twist on this, it really is where all the shittiest people end up, even though less lovely people also end up there, and amassing power in a very literal sense comes from amoral to immoral acts. She can definitely carve out a sanctuary territory, but improving the whole of the Pride ring means stamping out a whole lot of people whose only complaint is the exterminations. Yeah, but what’s the endgame here? Charlie sends all her friends to heaven and stays in Hell? She isn’t gonna be a dictator and lots of people are gonna stay lovely, but there’s also ways to rehabilitate the place to a degree. Charlie is ultimately going to find a balance for the Hotel to thrive where people have a choice what end to pursue that helps more people ultimately.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 01:05
|
|
|
Nodosaur posted:Not gonna lie to you guys, an important part of my fic is Charlie trying to grapple between whether it’d be better to redeem everyone in Hell or focus on making Hell itself a better place. I realize that’s a big shift for the series, but it seems like a logical route to go after Exterminations can be warded off. Fun pitches I can see the comedic and drama potential
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 01:05
|
|
|
Nodosaur posted:Yeah, but what’s the endgame here? Charlie sends all her friends to heaven and stays in Hell? There's always going to be new people to help get out. Once the Hotel is known to work it's always going to be full. And there's always going to be staff that choose to stick around and keep helping as opposed to moving on to Heaven. I expect Cherri, for example, isn't planning on trying to get out, but will be happy to give others a hand up. Plus Angels, at least, seem to have free movement between Heaven and Hell so it's not like her old friends can't visit her. Nodosaur posted:She isn’t gonna be a dictator and lots of people are gonna stay lovely, but there’s also ways to rehabilitate the place to a degree. Her own personal slice of hell being a haven is one thing, but turning thee whole of hell into just Earth doesn't make sense narratively, cosmologically, or thematically. But that's just my opinion.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 01:17
|
|
|
I know all that. But again, it’s a matter of DEGREE. Edit - and also, the Vees will do a good job of ruining poo poo for themselves/bringing a fight the way they are going in canon, and will be the case here Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Feb 14, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 01:30
|
|
|
Personally, I'm interested in seeing whether redemption can nullify an overlord's hold on a sinner's soul. I'd expect most of Pentagram City's overlords to declare war on Charlie for taking away their property if that's the case.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 01:42
|
|
|
I don't see why redemption wouldn't nullify an overlord owning someone's soul. They literally go to heaven. That's territory outside the grasp of any Overlord. Overlords can't even go down a ring, Heaven is a whole other league not to mention space. That and being redeemed means you are free of ones sins/burdens of the past so it doesn't make sense to still be chained to someone. Not that we know what it takes to get redeemed. Based on how he acts I doubt Sir Pentious was ever much of a evil person, for all we know he went to Hell because he wasn't good enough to get into Heaven. He likely never did anything that evil in Hell considering how he is, and even if he did, it's against other people in hell, is that a good thing or bad thing? The fact once he started to really go for redemption he put in the earnest effort to make it happen, between him being not a bad guy overall, helping to defend the hotel and the death itself he earned himself the right to move on up. We've seen from three cherubs being kicked from Heaven that being granted entrance can be rather picky based on any given action, you don't even always have to be the one that did the actual deed despite all the good you've done. If it's considered you played a part in something bad happening, you get screwed. What I'm saying Heaven's a dick. The Last Call fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Feb 14, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 02:16
|
|
|
i don't think angel dust will be able to ascend before breaking valentino's hold on him, whether it's in a more literal sense of voiding the contract or the figurative sense of dropping the albatross that is his guilt and self-loathing, and the same probably applies to any sinner who signed away their soul.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 02:27
|
|
|
Catgirl Al Capone posted:i don't think angel dust will be able to ascend before breaking valentino's hold on him, whether it's in a more literal sense of voiding the contract or the figurative sense of dropping the albatross that is his guilt and self-loathing, and the same probably applies to any sinner who signed away their soul. Agreed. I think that's going to be the big roadblock of Angel getting redeemed. He could become nicer than Charlie, but he doesn't own his soul and until he can get it back I don't think he can get out of hell. edit: That said, Pentious did outright die. What happens to an owned soul if they die, do the Overlords lose it? Cause if so then at the moment the only way Angel Dust could go to heaven (based on my assumptions) as long as Val still has his soul, is he'd have to die like Pentious did Macaluso fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Feb 14, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 02:49
|
|
|
Catgirl Al Capone posted:i don't think angel dust will be able to ascend before breaking valentino's hold on him, whether it's in a more literal sense of voiding the contract or the figurative sense of dropping the albatross that is his guilt and self-loathing, and the same probably applies to any sinner who signed away their soul. I'm with the less literal interpretation. He needs to get to a point where the contract doesn't matter. Basically, pulling an end of Hercules. Earning his spot voids the contract, but earning his spot requires mentally and emotionally breaking free of the contract if not "legally"
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 02:53
|
|
|
I do feel like there's a theme with the overlords and Vees in particular is that they basically represent the torments of Hell, dragging people down to their level with the promise of fleeting pleasures and then taking advantage of them for all it's worth. Sinners are clearly given lots of opportunities to indulge and Overlords facilitate that, everything from the cannibals to the arms dealers, and even IMP for that matter, letting them act out their grudges on the living from beyond the grave. Given Verosika was apparently working for Mammon on the spring break trip, I get the feeing the Sins do actively employ hellborn demons to spread sin and temptation across the mortal world, though it hardly needs the help.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 03:38
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/TheCartoonBase/status/1757595226602893641
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 04:21
|
|
|
The wins keep on coming! I wasn't expecting this, honestly, but then again I don't really know about the Billboard Charts scene.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 04:39
|
|
|
Good taste in songs to highlight in the tweet as well 
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 04:43
|
|
|
Here's a full upload of the Soundtrack (with timestamps in the description): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjrkUlFaVPU
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 06:02
|
|
|
Ghost Leviathan posted:I do feel like there's a theme with the overlords and Vees in particular is that they basically represent the torments of Hell, dragging people down to their level with the promise of fleeting pleasures and then taking advantage of them for all it's worth. Sinners are clearly given lots of opportunities to indulge and Overlords facilitate that, everything from the cannibals to the arms dealers, and even IMP for that matter, letting them act out their grudges on the living from beyond the grave. Given Verosika was apparently working for Mammon on the spring break trip, I get the feeing the Sins do actively employ hellborn demons to spread sin and temptation across the mortal world, though it hardly needs the help. I do wonder a lot about who was employing Verosika that time. Asmodeus doesn't seem like he especially cares about earthly affairs outside of his own ring so I'm little iffy he was giving her the marching orders. On the other hand she's a succubus and he's the literal King of Lust ring so guess it could track?
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 06:25
|
|
|
Flopsy posted:I do wonder a lot about who was employing Verosika that time. Asmodeus doesn't seem like he especially cares about earthly affairs outside of his own ring so I'm little iffy he was giving her the marching orders. On the other hand she's a succubus and he's the literal King of Lust ring so guess it could track? Iirc she mentions she's working a gig for Mammon?
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 07:27
|
|
|
Ghost Leviathan posted:Iirc she mentions she's working a gig for Mammon? Mammon wanting more people in hell to sell more stuff to (even if the Sinners largely go to Overlords first) does make sense.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 08:19
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:Mammon wanting more people in hell to sell more stuff to (even if the Sinners largely go to Overlords first) does make sense. Works for me. Although it does lead to the question are the more decent sins utterly uninterested in mankind/earth? Lucifer was completely depressed and apathetic until his daughter came back into his life, Beelzebub throws banger parties and markets her honey out as much beloved food product and Asmodeus runs a wildly successful lounge and sex toy factory. And going by Helluva boss lore seems perfectly happy spending his down time with Fizzarolli. I don't see a lot of effort between these three to gently caress up earth. Maybe the other sins are more about that life? I mean it makes sense Mammon would be.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 09:12
|
|
|
Twist that is both supremely unlikely AND entirely possible but would be incredibly funny: The one who owns Alastor is Nifty.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 09:57
|
|
|
Flopsy posted:Works for me. Although it does lead to the question are the more decent sins utterly uninterested in mankind/earth? Lucifer was completely depressed and apathetic until his daughter came back into his life, Beelzebub throws banger parties and markets her honey out as much beloved food product and Asmodeus runs a wildly successful lounge and sex toy factory. And going by Helluva boss lore seems perfectly happy spending his down time with Fizzarolli. I don't see a lot of effort between these three to gently caress up earth. Maybe the other sins are more about that life? I mean it makes sense Mammon would be. Mammon clearly does, I'd make a guess that maybe Leviathan might also have some interest in loving with Earth, purely out of Envy for Mankind/Heaven (ignoring the Sinner situation). But ultimately given that the Sinners are all in the Ring of Pride I could see the Seven Deadly Sins not really interested in active corruption so much as simply encouraging their followers as need be to go to Earth for whatever reasons. Asmosdeus has crystals for sending Demons to Earth, since that's part of what Stolas is trying to make an agreement with him for access (so that IMP don't need Stolas book anymore).
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 12:55
|
|
|
Data Graham posted:Something I appreciate quite a lot about HB's musical sensibility is that it's very "classical Broadway" in style, like it's kind of a throwback to the pre-LMM, pre-Come From Away, even pre-Les Mis formula of very carefully structured musical and lyrical patterns that don't go flailing all over the place with weird arrhythmic patter or barely-rhyming words that put the emPHAsis on the wrong syLAHble for no particularly good metrical reason. After seeing so many songs coming out of well-regarded musical-bearing shows like that stop-motion Pinocchio movie, or the "Taking Over Midnight" song in Gravity Falls (it happens in like every single line, wtf, they're definitely doing it on purpose), it's rather refreshing to see something that rather improbably seems to want to reject all that avant-garde nonsense and give us some real old-school showstopping numbers with genuine earworm music and well-turned Disneyesque lyrical structures the way the South Park movie did. yeah, sam haft is genuinly a good song writer and alot of his stuff is bangers and disney if they had any brains would hire him to write a soundtrack. also yeah stolas is what clicked for me in the show, that and M and M relationship. Stolas is genuinly empathetic and likable character and the Moxxie and millie dynamic is mostly very nice and wholesome which is a nice change from "i hate my bitch wife/dumb gently caress husband" and or "our relationship is a moutain goats song". I am not shocked. it has alot of bangers and classic broadway is something genuinly different for alot of soundtracks these days.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 14:06
|
|
|
Flopsy posted:Works for me. Although it does lead to the question are the more decent sins utterly uninterested in mankind/earth? Lucifer was completely depressed and apathetic until his daughter came back into his life, Beelzebub throws banger parties and markets her honey out as much beloved food product and Asmodeus runs a wildly successful lounge and sex toy factory. And going by Helluva boss lore seems perfectly happy spending his down time with Fizzarolli. I don't see a lot of effort between these three to gently caress up earth. Maybe the other sins are more about that life? I mean it makes sense Mammon would be. I assume that Asmodeus has Earth operations for the simple reason that he's a highly successful businessman who has his poo poo together, and that's just what an effective Deadly Sin would do. He's just not a jerk about it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 14:13
|
|
|
Anyone get the feeling Nifty could be related to Alastor in some way, be it a descendant or thrice removed cousin down the genetic line. She's the only one I really feel Alastor has a genuine bond with. That or she's the one with his contract. Or secretly god. Someone once mentioned they questioned if both shows take place around the same time. It was believed they did due to Charlie showing up on the news cast in the pilot of Helluva Boss. But the pilot is no longer canon. Could be a good reason why if the show happens later some years after the hotel is established and the whole angel business is long over with. Plus, the city doesn't look so screwed up or at war with itself as Hazbin does. A poo poo hole maybe but you know, much less on fire.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 14:45
|
|
|
Yeah, it personally makes more sense to me if HB takes place after Hazbin (or at the very least after the events of the latter's first season). Hell in general just seems slightly less chaotic in the former
Larryb fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Feb 14, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 14:50
|
|
|
The Last Call posted:Anyone get the feeling Nifty could be related to Alastor in some way, be it a descendant or thrice removed cousin down the genetic line. She's the only one I really feel Alastor has a genuine bond with. Helluva Boss takes place in a different city in the Pride Ring called Imp City or something like that. Pentagram City seems to be specifically the place Sinners largely live in. Larryb posted:Yeah, it personally makes more sense to me if HB takes place after Hazbin (or at the very least after the events of the latter's first season). Hell in general just seems slightly less chaotic in the former Helluva Boss also for a lot of it takes place in parts of Hell that Sinners cannot reach, which likely reduces the amount of chaos going on.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 14:56
|
|
|
I gotta say following the mafia episode that I'm not super jazzed at how front-and-center it put the gay-hating father element. Up till this point it felt like everybody in hell was just some flavor of bi and there just wasn't any homophobia. But then I suppose it wouldn't be hell
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 15:06
|
|
|
Data Graham posted:I gotta say following the mafia episode that I'm not super jazzed at how front-and-center it put the gay-hating father element. Up till this point it felt like everybody in hell was just some flavor of bi and there just wasn't any homophobia. But then I suppose it wouldn't be hell i mean i am ok with that. I am fine with a villian being a toxic masculine shithead who hates his son for being a wussy/etc because the father is a mafioso numbnuts. I have seen the trope done worse (dragon age inquestion as a weird example).
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 15:18
|
|
|
if moxxie's dad wasn't a cynical queerphobe the CONGRATS GAY gag wouldn't have landed
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 15:24
|
|
|
Props for the mob heavies all being sharks though. Loan sharks lol
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 15:29
|
|
|
Data Graham posted:Props for the mob heavies all being sharks though. Loan sharks lol It feels like those guys would fit both the Greed and Envy rings though I assume they belong to the latter (we’ve seen them pretty much everywhere though, I think a few even pop up in Hazbin)
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 16:06
|
|
|
Larryb posted:It feels like those guys would fit both the Greed and Envy rings though I assume they belong to the latter (we’ve seen them pretty much everywhere though, I think a few even pop up in Hazbin) Given the way Mammon js presented, it's very plausible Greed doesn't have "native hellborn" but co-opts the hellborn from other circles. We mostly see Imps and Sharks from Greed.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 16:09
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:Given the way Mammon js presented, it's very plausible Greed doesn't have "native hellborn" but co-opts the hellborn from other circles. We mostly see Imps and Sharks from Greed. That makes perfect sense honestly. Imps are from Wrath I believe and Hellhounds are from Gluttony so I’m not sure if Pride has any native hellborn either aside from Charlie and maybe the various pets/guardians like Fat Nuggets, Razz, and Dazz (I think the cannibals are also Sinners) Larryb fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Feb 14, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 16:19
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:Given the way Mammon js presented, it's very plausible Greed doesn't have "native hellborn" but co-opts the hellborn from other circles. We mostly see Imps and Sharks from Greed. This is based on nothing in particular, but I've seen more than a couple people speculate that the sharks or more "aquatic" looking demons like Glitz & Glam are actually native to Envy... but that most of them just gently caress off to other rings as soon as they possibly can because even Greed looks more promising by comparison.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 16:28
|
|
|
Catgirl Al Capone posted:if moxxie's dad wasn't a cynical queerphobe the CONGRATS GAY gag wouldn't have landed yeah. i think the billions of dildos were overkill but i thought most of the stuff landed with crim. he is scary rear end in a top hat who is passed his prime and needs to dig himself out of a pit and its why he bought into twink shark's bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 16:35
|
|
|
Greed and Envy can kind of go hand in hand so it’d make sense that by their very nature most residents of the latter would want to migrate to other rings where they had a chance of getting a bigger piece of the pie Kind of makes me wonder what the Envy sector is like now (I imagine Wrath has lots of turf wars just like Pride) Larryb fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Feb 14, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 16:40
|
|
|
I would like her Viv to explain what's up with the cannibals, because there are absolutely children cannibals
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 16:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 11:41 |
|
|
Macaluso posted:I would like her Viv to explain what's up with the cannibals, because there are absolutely children cannibals The cannibal family from Helluva Boss ended up in Cannibal Town and that's an example of where children cannibals come from. At least that's my guess, cannibalism as a sinful act is something children can participate in and not have it be extra gross/uncomfortable to portray on screen. Plus honestly Rosie seems the sort to take in mortal sinner children regardless of their actual cannibalism interests, just as part of her whole proper caring mayor/dame thing. Alastor has a protective streak for children too (or at least won't target them and stops others doing so if he sees it happen). Edit: Envy is supposedly an ocean (and might be the only one made of water in hell?) Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Feb 14, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2024 17:25
|
|