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FizFashizzle
Mar 30, 2005







Congrats to Mayorkas for surviving his impeachment

https://x.com/ronfilipkowski/status/1757900899261821279?s=46&t=JBd6ZXmGQ3LmWL-ineTnAA

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Failed Imagineer
Sep 22, 2018
Lol feels like Johnson is doing that as a joke. But then he himself is a dumbass so who knows

Zapp Brannigan
Mar 29, 2006

we have an irc channel at #SA_MeetingWomen

Failed Imagineer posted:

Lol feels like Johnson is doing that as a joke. But then he himself is a dumbass so who knows

I really hope Raskin is involved on the defense side just so he can continously torch marge

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.

I imagine a lot of Republican house members in a room going “not it” when it came time to decide who would argue the case in front of the senate.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 

Bird in a Blender posted:

You don't become a billionaire by paying people.

Excuse me I was told YOU GOTTA PAY YER BILLS

Eric Cantonese
Dec 21, 2004

You should hear my accent.

That’s a hell of a thumbnail to choose for her.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

You know, I've never heard of Soros in when he's not acting as the right wing boogeyman

What does he do as a day job?

He made an enormous amount of money by betting against the conservative U.K. government's monetary policy in the 90's (literally billions) and has basically been investing that money and using profits from investment to live his life and fund his pet political projects (post-apartheid charity work in South Africa, progressive political groups in Western Europe and the U.S., pro-democracy groups in Eastern Europe and Asia, giving money directly to people in Africa, informed suicide, drug legalization, funding universities in rural areas of Russia post-Communism, he established the Central European University, and he donates a ton of money to Bard college in the United States).

His donations to progressive groups and "informed suicide"/right-to-die organizations really triggered a lot of the right-wing anger and conspiracy (plus the "rich Jewish investor manipulates the banking industry" conspiracy actually was pretty close to what he did in England).

Pillowpants
Aug 5, 2006

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

He made an enormous amount of money by betting against the conservative U.K. government's monetary policy in the 90's (literally billions) and has basically been investing that money and using profits from investment to live his life and fund his pet political projects (post-apartheid charity work in South Africa, progressive political groups in Western Europe and the U.S., pro-democracy groups in Eastern Europe and Asia, giving money directly to people in Africa, informed suicide, drug legalization, funding universities in rural areas of Russia post-Communism, he established the Central European University, and he donates a ton of money to Bard college in the United States).

His donations to progressive groups and "informed suicide"/right-to-die organizations really triggered a lot of the right-wing anger and conspiracy (plus the "rich Jewish investor manipulates the banking industry" conspiracy actually was pretty close to what he did in England).

Didn’t he do that in Malaysia a few years after England too?

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

Pillowpants posted:

Didn’t he do that in Malaysia a few years after England too?

Pretty much.

The super dumbed down and tl:dr version of what he did is basically that the U.K. and Malaysia were pursuing financial policies that were unsustainable, but financial markets liked them short-term.

Some people were arguing that since the financial markets were booming short-term, that they were good monetary policy. Soros said that the market was being irrational because they weren't pricing in the long-term impact and were high on vibes.

He then bet heavily against those currencies on the assumption that the monetary policy was unsustainable. When he did that, he was sort of proven right that a lot of the success was based on vibes because a bunch of people saw his big bets and got worried that maybe they couldn't actually keep the currency lifted long-term. But, by proving that he was right, he also basically sped up the process as a bunch of people realized he was right and all pulled out at once. That made some people claim he "caused" the crisis by speeding up the inevitable result.

This was his explanation of the event and his thoughts on why the market was irrational and going to hurt people in the long-run:

quote:

The financial crisis that originated in Thailand in 1997 was particularly unnerving because of its scope and severity ... By the beginning of 1997, it was clear to Soros Fund Management that the discrepancy between the trade account and the capital account was becoming untenable. We sold short the Thai baht and the Malaysian ringgit early in 1997 with maturities ranging from six months to a year. (That is, we entered into contracts to deliver at future dates Thai baht and Malaysian ringgit that we did not currently hold.) Subsequently, Prime Minister Mahathir of Malaysia accused me of causing the crisis, a wholly unfounded accusation. We were not sellers of the currency during or several months before the crisis; on the contrary, we were buyers when the currencies began to decline—we were purchasing ringgits to realize the profits on our earlier speculation. (Much too soon, as it turned out. We left most of the potential gain on the table because we were afraid that Mahathir would impose capital controls. He did so, but much later.)

quote:

According to Soros, market fundamentalism with its assumption that markets will correct themselves with no need for government intervention in financial affairs has been "some kind of an ideological excess". In Soros's view, the markets' moods—a "mood" of the markets being a prevailing bias or optimism/pessimism with which the markets look at reality—"actually can reinforce themselves so that there are these initially self-reinforcing but eventually unsustainable and self-defeating boom/bust sequences or bubbles".

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

https://twitter.com/NEWSMAX/status/1757932743521141204

Yes that is Newsmax reporting the story about how True the Vote, the org upon whose claims the "2000 Mules" poo poo came from, couldn't produced a shred of evidence when ordered to by the courts.

koolkal
Oct 21, 2008

this thread maybe doesnt have room for 2 green xbox one avs
IIRC Newsmax pivoted away from election fraud claims after they received a bunch of lawsuits, similar to Fox

Angry_Ed
Mar 30, 2010




Grimey Drawer

koolkal posted:

IIRC Newsmax pivoted away from election fraud claims after they received a bunch of lawsuits, similar to Fox

And then they kept having the mypillow guy on and had to keep cutting his mic every time he talked because of it.

mawarannahr
May 21, 2019

Dapper_Swindler posted:

wow, hur is a loving hack if thats true and honestly it wouldnt shock me if hur lied about more.

What part of the article are you responding to? It sounds like Biden just blew up at Hur, who was trying to do his job, and lied about it.

Civilized Fishbot
Apr 3, 2011
Seems to me that Biden said "it was around when Beau died - it was one or maybe two years earlier, gently caress, was this 2016 or 2017, Beau died in '16, no, '15..." and Hur somewhat insensitively wrote down "this old coot can't remember when his son died." Then Biden was furious about it and, as he often does, stretched the truth/misspoke as if Hur had directly asked/confronted him about the timing of his son's death.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

Civilized Fishbot posted:

Seems to me that Biden said "it was around when Beau died - it was one or maybe two years earlier, gently caress, was this 2016 or 2017, Beau died in '16, no, '15..." and Hur somewhat insensitively wrote down "this old coot can't remember when his son died." Then Biden was furious about it and, as he often does, stretched the truth/misspoke as if Hur had directly asked/confronted him about the timing of his son's death.

I mean under that scenario hur did do exactly that he just did it through the press rather than to bidens face

Civilized Fishbot
Apr 3, 2011

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

I mean under that scenario hur did do exactly that he just did it through the press rather than to bidens face

Yeah to be clear I think Hur I'd the one acting unreasonably here the same way Comey was unreasonable in 2016 - either put someone on trial or not, but declining to put them on trial while excoriating them to the press is just prosecuting them in a different court where they don't have the same rights to defend themselves or clear their name. It gets into "innocent until proven guilty" territory imo.

Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

Civilized Fishbot posted:

Yeah to be clear I think Hur I'd the one acting unreasonably here the same way Comey was unreasonable in 2016 - either put someone on trial or not, but declining to put them on trial while excoriating them to the press is just prosecuting them in a different court where they don't have the same rights to defend themselves or clear their name. It gets into "innocent until proven guilty" territory imo.

It's a really standard part of the playbook for dishonest accusations by the right wing and it's reasonable to be suspicious of it even when you believe the accusation itself is plausible.

Nissin Cup Nudist
Sep 3, 2011

Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land




Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

He made an enormous amount of money by betting against the conservative U.K. government's monetary policy in the 90's (literally billions) and has basically been investing that money and using profits from investment to live his life and fund his pet political projects (post-apartheid charity work in South Africa, progressive political groups in Western Europe and the U.S., pro-democracy groups in Eastern Europe and Asia, giving money directly to people in Africa, informed suicide, drug legalization, funding universities in rural areas of Russia post-Communism, he established the Central European University, and he donates a ton of money to Bard college in the United States).

His donations to progressive groups and "informed suicide"/right-to-die organizations really triggered a lot of the right-wing anger and conspiracy (plus the "rich Jewish investor manipulates the banking industry" conspiracy actually was pretty close to what he did in England).

oh, another finance/hedge fund guy. Should have guessed that.

at least he's not a total ghoul like all the others

Zapp Brannigan
Mar 29, 2006

we have an irc channel at #SA_MeetingWomen
Rep. Andy Ogles(R-TN) has asked the Speaker to open an inquiry into Intelligence Committee Chair Mike Turner (R-OH) for his "reckless" approach to announcing the Russia space nuke national security threat.

Holy poo poo they are eating their own...

Zamujasa
Oct 27, 2010



Bread Liar
i get how he feels b/c if you asked me on the spot what year either of my grandparents died i wouldn't be able to confidently get it right because the times they did were pretty chaotic moments around '15/'21

and if you then turned around after that and went "haha so old and senile they can't remember!" to the loving press i would certainly want to rip that person a new rear end in a top hat or two


biden is a dinosaur who has no right being prez at his age but i think i can give him a pass on this one

Aztec Galactus
Sep 12, 2002

I had someone very close to me pass away and I can never remember which year it was because those next couple of years are a blur caused by emotional distress

Angry_Ed
Mar 30, 2010




Grimey Drawer

Aztec Galactus posted:

I had someone very close to me pass away and I can never remember which year it was because those next couple of years are a blur caused by emotional distress

Both my grandmothers passed away within days of each other and I also cannot remember what year that was.

TheDisreputableDog
Oct 13, 2005

Civilized Fishbot posted:

Yeah to be clear I think Hur I'd the one acting unreasonably here the same way Comey was unreasonable in 2016 - either put someone on trial or not, but declining to put them on trial while excoriating them to the press is just prosecuting them in a different court where they don't have the same rights to defend themselves or clear their name. It gets into "innocent until proven guilty" territory imo.

Putting aside the fact that Comey was put in a weird grey area as an investigator given charging authority because Bill Clinton torpedoed Lynch’s credibility, I’ll point out again that a Special Prosecutor is required by law to write a full report. Hur literally had to write down his reasoning for deciding not to charge, given the clear evidence that Biden knew he had classified information. If anyone is “responsible” for putting bad stuff out about team blue’s leader, it’s Garland. He has the leeway to not release the report, or redact parts of it. I imagine he didn’t want either the heat, or the inevitable subpoena requests from the House, that would result from not releasing the full report.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Zamujasa posted:

i get how he feels b/c if you asked me on the spot what year either of my grandparents died i wouldn't be able to confidently get it right because the times they did were pretty chaotic moments around '15/'21

and if you then turned around after that and went "haha so old and senile they can't remember!" to the loving press i would certainly want to rip that person a new rear end in a top hat or two


biden is a dinosaur who has no right being prez at his age but i think i can give him a pass on this one

yeah. like i can't give you a pinpoint year on when my grandparents died. my grandfather died soon after a graduated high school, and my grandmother died when i was in college. memory is loving weird because i can rememeber lots of moments and weird stuff but rarely dates or even chronological order. i read bidens book on that time around his sons death, and i can easily believe that poo poo blurs together because his sons death was kinda of slow crash because brain cancer is awful.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

TheDisreputableDog posted:

Putting aside the fact that Comey was put in a weird grey area as an investigator given charging authority because Bill Clinton torpedoed Lynch’s credibility, I’ll point out again that a Special Prosecutor is required by law to write a full report. Hur literally had to write down his reasoning for deciding not to charge, given the clear evidence that Biden knew he had classified information. If anyone is “responsible” for putting bad stuff out about team blue’s leader, it’s Garland. He has the leeway to not release the report, or redact parts of it. I imagine he didn’t want either the heat, or the inevitable subpoena requests from the House, that would result from not releasing the full report.

agreed but i get why garland did it outside decorum poo poo. if you hide it, then it gains way more legs and traction and the GOP have something that comes out way closer to november and it turns into a court circus. Now, no one will care with in a month or less and it will just be added to the chud grivance pile as they try to impeache the DHS head for not scalping migrants or some poo poo.

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002

Jade Ear Joe

Angry_Ed posted:

Both my grandmothers passed away within days of each other and I also cannot remember what year that was.

My sister died in just 2019 and I have to stop and remember the year each time. Memory and duress do not go well together.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

BonoMan posted:

My sister died in just 2019 and I have to stop and remember the year each time. Memory and duress do not go well together.

yeah. like i do not blame biden at all for being pissed about this and hur is a jack rear end for trying to use it to score points.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

It was also part of a verbal recollection where he knew the date - May 30 - but was like "ok, that was around when Beau died, was that '15 or '16..." and Hur wrote it up as "demented man cannot remember he even had a son".

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

zoux posted:

It was also part of a verbal recollection where he knew the date - May 30 - but was like "ok, that was around when Beau died, was that '15 or '16..." and Hur wrote it up as "demented man cannot remember he even had a son".

its also right after the start of a ongoing international crisis and he is spending 5 hours talking to this stuff. all the quotes showing "biden is demented" are very clearly him talking outloud to get the dates. like i think biden as old as gently caress and slowed down but wtf.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1758183733595660310

Like most suspected, this wasn't a planned thing just a thing that happens when a bunch of people are walking around armed.

volts5000
Apr 7, 2009

It's electric. Boogie woogie woogie.

zoux posted:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1758183733595660310

Like most suspected, this wasn't a planned thing just a thing that happens when a bunch of people are walking around armed.

I thought an armed society was a polite society.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011



BonoMan posted:

My sister died in just 2019 and I have to stop and remember the year each time. Memory and duress do not go well together.

My mom passed away in 2018 and my dad passed away in 2019, and I always have to pause for a second to remember which years they passed away and use the start of Covid as my reference point. I'm not blaming Joe in the slightest for having to take a few seconds to make sure he has the right year and gently caress that leech for playing political games with Beau's death.

PeterWeller
Apr 21, 2003

I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

TheDisreputableDog posted:

Hur literally had to write down his reasoning for deciding not to charge, given the clear evidence that Biden knew he had classified information.

Yeah, but isn't his reasoning for deciding not to charge that the DoJ does not charge sitting presidents? Isn't all the stuff about him being a sympathetic defendant "and if he wasn't president, we'd still not charge because..."?

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster
The recordings of the interview will be the most important part. If he was genuinely fumbling and dazed for most of those questions, then you'll be able to tell.

A transcript isn't as useful for making those distinctions during a deposition because any good lawyer is going to tell you to say "I don't recall" or "I have no memory of that" to any questions asking for too much specificity (see the many infamous deposition tapes where someone says they don't recall hundreds of times and the headlines) to avoid potential perjury or contradictions.

There's not much you can definitively say one way or the other from the outside with such limited public information.

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Feb 15, 2024

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

https://twitter.com/DylanByers/status/1758160387206443456

Maybe I have dementia because the entire press is pretending like they haven't been on Biden's age since 2020.

Shammypants
May 25, 2004

Let me tell you about true luxury.

The migrant caravan never arrived at the border so now they have to test the waters on Biden being old again.

mawarannahr
May 21, 2019

zoux posted:

https://twitter.com/DylanByers/status/1758160387206443456

Maybe I have dementia because the entire press is pretending like they haven't been on Biden's age since 2020.

The author is specifically talking about the White House press corps and claims members of it have told him they did avoid raising the issue. I have read many of the transcripts of White House press conferences over the years and I don't recall very much of it, but my memory may be faulty. If you want to confirm you could search relevant terms with site:whitehouse.gov inurl:press.

Here is the article text:

quote:

Swift fly the years, and it’s hard to believe it’s been almost two turns of the calendar since David Axelrod earned the ire of the president, the White House, and the Democratic establishment by warning, in the pages of The New York Times, that Joe Biden’s age would be a liability in 2024. In a June 2022 interview with the paper, the famed chief strategist of Obama’s victorious presidential campaigns made the rather obvious point that “the presidency is a monstrously taxing job,” and the very rational observation that Biden, “who looks his age and isn’t as agile in front of a camera as he once was,” would be “closer to 90 than 80 at the end of a second term, and that would be a major issue.” For his sins, White House surrogates chastised Axelrod while Biden privately called him “a prick.”

Last Thursday, after Robert Hur’s report clearing Biden of wrongdoing in the classified materials investigation was subsumed by his commentary on the president’s acuity, I texted a producer at CNN to gauge their coverage plans for the evening. Unsurprisingly, perhaps, Axelrod had been booked for the majority of primetime. Of course, his attempts to underscore the political significance of the report, which he described as “a shiv” into Biden’s reelection campaign, contended with the president’s loyalists, who sought to direct attention elsewhere. These pals, true believers, and surrogates criticized Hur—a Republican with an agenda!—for cosplaying as a neurologist and reiterated the familiar Trump-inflected whataboutism—juxtaposing Biden with another elderly, misremembering man who also happens to be an aspiring fascist facing 91 felony charges. These arguments were even more audible over on MSNBC.

And so it went in subsequent days. Biden advisers and surrogates also tended to utilize another familiar, imperfect argument: Behind closed doors, where it matters, the president is sharp, detail-oriented, on top of it, and in full control of his faculties, they insist. This talking point has become an exhausting refrain: I heard it Sunday on Meet the Press from Biden senior adviser Mitch Landrieu (“This guy is tough, he’s smart, he’s on his game”) and Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas (“He is sharp, intensely probing, and detail-oriented and focused”). And I heard it again over breakfast on Monday morning from a source very close to Biden.

And while this depiction of Biden may be true, it’s an impossible argument to win because it inherently contradicts what many Americans just watched, themselves. As Jon Stewart astutely pointed out in his return to The Daily Show on Monday, why can’t the White House put that sharp, focused, and on-top-of-it version of Biden on camera? Of late, the White House has avoided every opportunity to do so, even opting out of the traditional Super Bowl pregame interview.

I’m not here to validate a cable news disagreement. Of course, both arguments are flawed. The presidency is an office, and Biden is surrounded by brilliant and capable people who help guide his decision-making and have led the country out of Covid, aligned NATO against Russia, passed historic infrastructure, manufacturing, gun-safety, and inflation-reduction legislation, and facilitated economic growth of 3.3 percent in the most recent quarter. And yet, this isn’t—or shouldn’t be—a binary issue. Just because Biden defeated Trump in a once-in-a-lifetime election, which featured mail-in voting during a pandemic, doesn’t mean he alone can defeat him now. The Republican Party establishment seemed to do everything in its power to line up contenders as alternatives to Trump. The Democratic machine is openly hostile to any contemplation of another option and, as the Axelrod affair demonstrates, gets seriously pissed at anyone with the temerity to break rank.

That all now appears to be shifting. For better or worse, it is now open season on the question of Biden’s age. And that is largely because, as Axelrod himself pointed out, “the most damaging things in politics are the things that confirm people’s pre-existing suspicions.” Only in this case, it’s not so much a suspicion as a perceptible and audible fact. The president obviously looks and sounds like he’s lost a step—understandably so!—and neither the gratuity of Hur’s report nor the myriad threats posed by a second Trump presidency can negate it. And this all has a number of journalists covering the president second-guessing some of their reporting decisions and looking at their subject with fresh eyes.

Behind Closed Doors

This week, I surveyed members of the White House press corps—reporters, on-air correspondents, photographers, etcetera—and they all emphasized that the symptoms of Biden’s age had become more noticeable in recent months and a frequent discussion topic at the desks behind the Brady briefing room. “Anyone who covers this White House knows he’s showing the signs of his age—he whispers, he shuffles, he misremembers,” one White House reporter told me. “Anyone with an elderly parent knows what this is.”
Since the beginning of Biden’s term, many White House journalists have reported on, or alluded to, concerns surrounding Biden’s age in often gentle or euphemistic ways. Nevertheless, several of the journalists I spoke with said the true significance and importance of that issue, as they observed it, was not reflected in the coverage—often due to the sense that it was sensitive or unseemly, or because there was no obvious evidence that it had affected his performance as president beyond optics. Or, left unsaid, perhaps because they didn’t want to ruin their relationship with the White House by being the lone wolf to speak up.“It was something that felt indelicate to talk about,” one member of the White House press corps told me. In retrospect, some journalists felt like it probably warranted more coverage: “The amount of time we spent talking about it versus the time we spent reporting on it was not the same,” one of the reporters said. “There should have been tougher, more scrutinizing coverage of his age earlier.”

The Hur report has obviously given the press corps greater license to cover the issue—in the same way, one journalist noted, that the Monica Lewinsky scandal gave the White House press corps greater license to talk about the flirtatious behavior they’d witnessed Bill Clinton exhibiting toward some women, but never felt like they had the freedom to write about in their pages. And, as one reporter noted, the problem with the age issue is that it only moves in one direction: “It’s not just the next nine months,” this reporter said. “It’s potentially the next five years.”

Whatever the case, Biden’s age is now a thing, an enduring thing, a challenge for the administration and campaign, and a test for news organizations trying to be honest brokers without losing sight of the fact that, yes, Trump’s myriad things—the criminal charges, the demagoguery, the disregard for the electoral process, and his own age-related verbal peculiarities—are national risks of a whole other magnitude. Still, as Stewart noted on The Daily Show, “The stakes of this election don’t make Donald Trump’s opponent less subject to scrutiny; it actually makes him more subject to scrutiny.”

Stewart explained his logic with a rather amusing Conan the Barbarian analogy, but it effectively amounts to this: If you’re among those who support Biden and believe that Trump presents an existential threat to American democracy, you should be even more concerned about the vigor of the one man who stands between him and the White House. At the very least, you certainly shouldn’t be pretending like the conversation is unwarranted. Time does fly, and it’ll be November before you know it.

Retro42
Jun 27, 2011


zoux posted:

https://twitter.com/DylanByers/status/1758160387206443456

Maybe I have dementia because the entire press is pretending like they haven't been on Biden's age since 2020.

Am I understanding that we are at the point of the press writing articles about themselves to make a bigger story out of a topic?

Note: I know we past that point looooooong ago.

Levitate
Sep 30, 2005

randy newman voice

YOU'VE GOT A LAFRENIÈRE IN ME
Did people really and truly believe that if they elected Biden in the primary and elected him in the general that he'd serve 1 term and then step down because "he's too old"? Or were they just not thinking that hard about it?

Because I remember age being a thing in the 2020 election and vague hand waiving over him only serving 1 term but anyone who thought that was really going to be a thing seems like they were being incredibly naive.

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-Dethstryk-
Oct 20, 2000

Levitate posted:

Did people really and truly believe that if they elected Biden in the primary and elected him in the general that he'd serve 1 term and then step down because "he's too old"? Or were they just not thinking that hard about it?

Because I remember age being a thing in the 2020 election and vague hand waiving over him only serving 1 term but anyone who thought that was really going to be a thing seems like they were being incredibly naive.
To be fair, you had articles like this from 2019 going around that Biden was apparently discussing it with aides. For myself, I know this is why I thought it was a real possibility, but I also didn't particularly one way or another if he'd run in 2024 or not at the time.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/11/biden-single-term-082129

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