[Marx] I put on my anti-coat and wizard hat

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Marx] I put on my anti-coat and wizard hat

(Thread IKs: dead gay comedy forums)

Son of Thunderbeast: Sep 21, 2002

i say swears online posted:

those chow halls used to be a lot more revolutionary when it was the military feeding the military instead of neoliberalized to contractors

god drat, lol :corsair:

# ? Feb 27, 2024 07:30

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# ? May 26, 2024 21:53

Butter Activities: May 4, 2018

Son of Thunderbeast posted:

Yeah this, 100%. There is absolutely no way you're going to go in and do any good yourself, the machine will change you instead. Best to let them decide for themselves if that's what they want to do. They'd have a better idea where to start anyway.

As someone who joined as an actual idealistic liberal, quickly realized something was very wrong with my worldview, and left as a communist I agree strongly that this is a fools errand relative to all the things you could do with a fraction that amount of time and energy. It is too large and disperse and institution and the personnel management system deliberately exists to prevent cliques of any kind forming in the military, it would require a very large vanguard organization planting enough people at snco or officer positions to by luck get critical mass of enough people assigned to enough important roles in the same area for infiltration to work without that somehow being discovered because that is very loving illegal in the US.

I met a lot of individuals, even a couple special forces type guys who were borderline leftists or fellow travelers but everyone who was at that stage was on their way out and not exactly in line for any important positions. And no where near a critical mass much less high ranking people. All junior enlisted and ncos.

Butter Activities has issued a correction as of 07:36 on Feb 27, 2024

# ? Feb 27, 2024 07:31

Brain Candy: May 18, 2006

dead gay comedy forums posted:

If someone is going to throw lumpenproletariat around without just a teeny tiny bit of class analysis of the United States for the year of our lord of 2024, it's basically semantic mush

yes, that's why it came with the teeny bit of analysis necessary

# ? Feb 27, 2024 07:39

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

Son of Thunderbeast posted:

god drat, lol

i think this shift is extremely important

# ? Feb 27, 2024 07:41

Son of Thunderbeast: Sep 21, 2002

i say swears online posted:

i think this shift is extremely important

You're absolutely right. I was just suddenly hit with how much it's changed. I can't really trust my assumptions at all anymore lol.

But I think that underscores the importance of, if you're going to work at raising consciousness in the military, best to do it at arm's length. Just talk to them, esp friends/family.

Son of Thunderbeast has issued a correction as of 07:44 on Feb 27, 2024

# ? Feb 27, 2024 07:41

dead gay comedy forums: Oct 21, 2011

Brain Candy posted:

yes, that's why it came with the teeny bit of analysis necessary

lmao

I mean, it isn't wrong, just to remind that the term never got to a full categorical definition that is easily understood by everybody. But having the attitude of being in it for the money is a very good start always

# ? Feb 27, 2024 07:43

Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

i say swears online posted:

i think this shift is extremely important

It is yeah. It's not just about the military anymore, but also the massive bloated network of contractors, subcontractors, PMCs, and other civilian support staff that props it up.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 07:44

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

Son of Thunderbeast posted:

You're absolutely right. I was just suddenly hit with how much it's changed

in Basic in '09 everyone made fun of the guy that was in waste disposal but he may very well have been the last person paid by the government to ensure your water is clean

# ? Feb 27, 2024 07:45

Butter Activities: May 4, 2018

That�s actually really interesting. The privatization of the support troops of the military would from the perspective of capital neutralize the threat that the military poses to them as the one locus of power in the US that is still somewhat independent. It would be best for them to have an elite military with no support personnel though I think if they attempted to accelerate that process more quickly the military would still be able to push back for a long time because even the generals mostly understand what privatization actually means.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 07:50

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

SMEGMA_MAIL posted:

because even the generals mostly understand what privatization actually means.

i think this is loving insane. generals are going to get theirs and that's the way it has been. do you have a feifdom to offer them? if not, don't theorize.

i thnk this dynamic means very serious trouble for very normal people

# ? Feb 27, 2024 07:54

Butter Activities: May 4, 2018

i say swears online posted:

i think this is loving insane. generals are going to get theirs and that's the way it has been. do you have a feifdom to offer them? if not, don't theorize.

i thnk this dynamic means very serious trouble for very normal people

I�m saying right now enough of them believe in the institution and know that a privatized military is a threat to their power and the power of the institution being able to function. And I think a dramatic attempt to change the relationship of the military to further subordinate them to the direct rule of capital too quickly would result in the people with the guns saying �no� and enough people in charge understand that.

It�s not particularly good or hopeful of a situation but I think it�s interesting and somewhat unique compared to most empires.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 08:07

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

SMEGMA_MAIL posted:

even the generals mostly understand what privatization actually means.

yeah, a sweet position on the board of raytheon or as a talking head on TV

# ? Feb 27, 2024 10:54

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

crepeface posted:

yeah, a sweet position on the board of raytheon or as a talking head on TV

yeah regulatory capture is a thing and I don't see generals fighting it at all

# ? Feb 27, 2024 15:11

Tsitsikovas: Aug 2, 2023

In light of Bills' recent pages long non-grasp of entropy, here's Kwame Ture using it as part of a great criticism of Zionism. Maybe it belongs in the PI thread more, but it was too spot on imo to not share it here.

On learning how to think dialectically, Ive found Kwame to be the best teacher frankly, especially as he got okder. His lectures are a masterclass in analysis, hes really good at explicitly using diamat to discuss whatever it is thats asked of him.

https://twitter.com/SpiritofLenin/status/1762497354769252749?t=J5Jat6fsiVzIxxbOCDrfZw&s=19

Tsitsikovas has issued a correction as of 16:39 on Feb 27, 2024

# ? Feb 27, 2024 16:36

dead gay comedy forums: Oct 21, 2011

my friend if there's a video of Kwame Ture talking about his top picks of street food places it is absolutely relevant to this thread, that man is golden

# ? Feb 27, 2024 17:14

Son of Sorrow: Aug 8, 2023

The question of whether and how one can recruit American military personnel is putting the cart before the horse. In order to answer it, you'd need to know the conditions in which a revolutionary socialist organization they could join operates. We don't have that, obviously (at least here in the States). Furthermore, it's my suspicion that we won't really know anything useful about those conditions and interactions without there actually being one we can analyze, being that there hasn't been a serious socialist movement in the US in like a century. To my mind the more relevant question is how knowledgeable and committed anti-capitalists can develop and grow a stable and focused party, and whether enough those actually exist to wrangle together.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 17:34

Son of Thunderbeast: Sep 21, 2002

In an interesting coincidence, I just today got to this letter by Bobby Seale from The Black Panthers Speak, that addresses the topic from his perspective (and that of the party). I think it's a good model.

I can't find an online version to copy/paste so I've transcribed it (in full and uncensored) below.

Bobby Seale posted:

Black Soldiers as Revolutionaries to Overthrow the Ruling Class

This is the county jail, city prison, San Francisco, California. And this is Bobby Seale, the Chairman of the Black Panther Party of which Huey P. Newton is the Minister of Defense, and Eldridge Cleaver is the Minister of Information. I am presently incarcerated here as a political prisoner in the same manner that our Minister of Defense, Huey P. Newton, is incarcerated in another prison here in California known as C.M.C. (south of San Fracisco 200 miles). And I wanted to send a message from jail here as a political prisoner.

We are here in America, brothers, (Black G.I.'s, who this message is to), trying to rid ourselves of the oppressive conditions that we've been subjected to for 400 years. And now they have Black brothers with their lives on the line, dying and fighting a people who are only wanting for themselves, self-determination in their own homeland and to unify their country and unify their people. And the only reason that Black G.I.'s are over there, or Brown G.I.'s, or Red (Indian-American) G.I.'s, Chicanos, and even white G.I.'s, the only reason you're there is because the fascist, ruling class circles of America (the avaricious, big-time, businessmen, the big rich men; the demagogic, lying politicians, the misleading politicians who mislead and try to lie to the people) are the ones making fascists out of you brothers. And it's correct that the Vietnamese should defend themselves and defend their land and fight for the right to self-determination, because they have NEVER oppressed us. They have NEVER called us "friend of the family". They have NEVER done anything wrong to us. The leadership of the Vietnamese is that of heroic people. This is also true of the Vietnamese people who are heroic people, fighting for their right to self-determination.

And so, the same goes for Black people here in America living in wretched ghettos and oppression. We have been struggling for 400 years, as many of you Black brothers are well aware. I know you dream about home. But when you come home, come home and realize that you have a fight here, that we have the right to control our destinies in our Black community; as the Chicano people have a right to control their destinies in their Chicano community or areas and places where they live; as the American Indians have a right to control their destiny; as the poor, oppressed white people have a right to control their destiny (many poor, oppressed white people must realize that it's the ruling class). The Indian-Americans, and Black people in America are beginning to move more and more in opposition to the oppressive conditions that the SAME avaricious businessmen and demagogic, lying politicians create and maintain--that exploitation. The workers of this country are beginning to move more and more, day by day, step by step from a lower to a higher level in opposing the ruling class circles, because they (the ruling class circles) are the ones who keep the racism going. They are the one who keep people hating each other because of skin color, etc.

The Black Panther Party, brothers, does not fight racism with racism. There are no white people in the Black Panther Party but we do have alliances with the white radical student groups who have stood up in protest against that war for your sake and for all the G.I.'s sake. We wanted them back home. We wanted to bring them back home as a means to end that war, demanding and protesting that the G.I.'s come back home and the war end.

The Black brothers, Vietnam Black G.I.'s, must understand and feel desire to oppose oppression right here at home domestically. Oppose fascism. The cops occupy our community just like a foreign troop occupies territory. Just like, you are a foreign troop there in Vietnam, occupying territory at the directions of the fascist ruling class and their military leaders who are also a part of the fascist ruling class. Not at the will of the people of America are you there. You're there because the imperialist U.S. aggressors (and that's exactly what they are) have sent you there. And we'll be glad when you come back, because here you must fight the pigs who occupy our community. In every major city and metropolis throughout America police forces have been doubled, tripled, and quadrupled wherever Black people live; where the large populations of Chicano people live; where the large populat6ions of people who are protesting and opposing war, are protesting and opposing the poverty and the murder and brutality that's committed against Black people in the Black community. Wherever the case, these police forces have been tripled and quadrupled with machine guns, AR-15s (the same kinds of guns you brothers got and are carrying over there) .357 magnums (you can stand up and shoot 10 demonstrators with one bullet with a .357 or a .44 magnum) that these cops carry here.

They're not solving the problems of the people, the U.S. government, the local government, the federal government, and the city governments. All they're doing is putting money out for more arms. And now a state of DOMESTIC imperialism exists here to the extent that the genocide can begin to be committed tomorrow, if they decide.

We'll be glad when you come home. We oppose the war here, we say, "Power tot he People." We want all the people to move to have proletarian democracy--workers democracy (a real people's democracy), and not capitalistic, exploiting democracy for the minority ruling class. There are only 800 big, rich businessmen who control this imperialistic regime in America. There are numerous demagogic politicians, from the local government to the federal government. There are approximately half a million or more local police, some more millions of national guardsmen. But they are used against, not to protect the people. They're used to murder and to brutalize the people, such as at the National Democratic Convention back in August of 1968.

The numerous amounts of brutality that are going on, and you brothers haven't even heard about them. The political prisoners that Black Panther Party members have been made (We have over 50 political prisoners here.) all because the Ten Point Platform and Program of the Black Panther Party began to be implemented. And what was the Ten Point Platform and Program of the Black Panther Party?

From the very beginning of the Party the Ten Point Platform has always read: We want freedom. We want the right to determine our destiny in our own Black community. Number two: We want full employment for our people. Number three: We want the end to oppression and the exploitation of the Black community by the capitalists in our communities. Number four: We want decent housing fit for shelter of human beings. Five says: We want a decent education. It says we want decent education that teaches us about the true nature of this decadent American society, an education that teaches us our true history and our role in the present day society. And number six says: We want all Black men to be exempt from military service. That's what we demand here of this government. (We really want you home, brothers). Number seven says: We want an immediate end to police brutality and murder of Black people. The last two points of the Program covers our right to fair trial by peers as it says in the Constitution of the United States.

It's important Black brothers that we understand the need to come home. It's important that we understand that the Vietnamese people are only fighting for the right to self-determination in their land. It's important, brothers, that we understand it's the fascist ruling class circle who have you there, who got you fighting there. It's important, brothers, that you understand that your fight is really right here at home in America. So when you come back, you'll be fighting against the oppression that we've been subjected to for 400 years. So I will wind this statement up and probably, hopefully, send some more. Better yet, I th8ink I should say a few more things concerning Black G.I.'s and the history of this country.

In the Civil War when there was a fight between the North and the South, in that Civil War, 186,000 Black people enlisted in the military service. We were promised freedom, justice, and equality; and we never received it. During World War I there were over 350,000 Black Americans in World War I. And we were promised freedom, justice, and equality; and we never received it. Then there was the Korean War the fascist ruling class aggressors put together. And we fought there. Now, here it is again--another war against a people who are trying to fight for the right of their self-determination. They don't even promise you "freedom, justice, and equality" anymore. Kinda bad now, brothers.

If we would only begin to realize the necessity of not being a tool for the fascist aggressor! And that doesn't only go for Black G.I.'s. That goes for Mexican-American G.I.'s, Chicano brothers, rather; that goes for the Indian American G.I.'s and Chinese-American G.I.'s; and that goes for even the poor white American G.I.'s who have to understand. That goes for even the G.I.'s who have some humanistic understanding about a people's right to survive and a right to determine their own destiny in their own land, like the average human being who can understand that Black people have been oppressed for 400 years here in America--all G.I.'s. And the Chicano people are oppressed, and the Indian-Americans are oppressed.

You guys know that. Every last one of you know that. You cats come from off the block, you Black brothers. And I know you. You know me just as well as I know you. The many times we use to break off into parties and be fighting and carrying on. Some of you would be blowing joints, and drinking and carrying on and being sharp, trying to get you some clean clothes, and chasing them sisters out there. You ain't no different from other brothers; only we just turned political. We just turned political. We're being made political prisoners because we're standing up out there against this fascist ruling class, against those fascist, racist pigs who occupy our community like a foreign troop occupies territory. We're the same, but we're just in two different places. We should be here fighting here at home. They protest over there for the freedom of political prisoners. You should al be closer at protesting over there for the freedom of political prisoners in America.

Power to the people. Power to the people; that's what we say. Power to all the people. And get rid of the power, take the power away from the minority ruling class circles, the imperialists and fascists here in America. The same thing they're doing over there to the Vietnamese people, they're getting ready to upstep and do to the Black American people. The same thing; the same kind of weapons, vicious weapons. They have tanks; they have nerve gas and everything else prepared. And it's time that we understand and realize this. All the masses of the people and the G.I.'s and the people at home are the ones who have to protest the war, are the ones who have to protest the injustices right here at home.

So you brothers who are dreaming about coming back home, when you get back home, you're going to see that same oppression. They're going to promise you a job; but you're going to be out of a job. In some cases they're going to try to give some of you dishonorable discharges for one reason or another and tell you that you can't get a job when you get back. But all you have to do is tell him it wasn't no jobs here when you left. And that's why you got off into that thing anyway. You went into the service for the same reason I went into it at one time over 10 years ago, some fourteen years, now; 'cause it wasn't no jobs, it wasn't nothing to do, and you didn't have any money in your pocket and you was frustrated with your surroundings and basically your environment. That's the reason most of you brothers went in there. It was a way to get a chance to do something. And you feel you'd go in the Army and some guy'd sell you some insidious notion about being a man, and all that kind of crap. And you were already a man. You're a human being. . That's the first basis for being a man; it's being a human being, and not going out trying to prove how many colored peoples you can kill in a foreign land. That's not being a man; that's being a fascist. And that's what the fascist power structure does.

So to ALL Black American G.I.'s, it's very important that you understand the need to come home; the need to relate to the struggle here; the need for the people and us to get mobilized and to amass together to free the political prisoners; the need to fight for community control of police where the people will have control, not of the same police, but fire those in now and set up community control operations. The Breakfast for Children Programs. Understand that the demagogic politicians are lying. They’re lying on the Party. They've attacked the Party; they've attacked our offices. And in some cases we've had to defend ourselves with weapons because we vowed that we would stand and defend ourselves, to defend our people and teach our people the correct methods to resist the pig power structure here in America, the fascist ruling class, the exploiters. That's what they are--oppressors.

So, power to the people, brothers. And please come on home, brothers. And when you get home, we'll be waiting for you.

BOBBY SEALE
CHAIRMAN
BLACK PANTHER PARTY
--The Black Panther, September 20, 1969

The thing that stands out the most to me is the strong underlying heartbeat of solidarity and empathy and love that resonates through every word. He never loses sight of it (nor do any of the other Panthers), or the humanity of his intended audience (Black US soldiers--but also others, including white soldiers who know what's up). He makes sure to keep the true common enemy in focus at all times.

Son of Thunderbeast has issued a correction as of 02:25 on Feb 28, 2024

# ? Feb 28, 2024 02:16

Brain Candy: May 18, 2006

Son of Thunderbeast posted:

In an interesting coincidence, I just today got to this letter by Bobby Seale from The Black Panthers Speak, that addresses the topic from his perspective (and that of the party). I think it's a good model.

I can't find an online version to copy/paste so I've transcribed it (in full and uncensored) below.

The thing that stands out the most to me is the strong underlying heartbeat of solidarity and empathy and love that resonates through every word. He never loses sight of it (nor do any of the other Panthers), or the humanity of his intended audience (Black US soldiers--but also others, including white soldiers who know what's up). He makes sure to keep the true common enemy in focus at all times.

why is it a good model? you like it, cool, but why would it be effective? why would it be now? why wasn't it then?

# ? Feb 28, 2024 03:12

dead gay comedy forums: Oct 21, 2011

Sharing something you think it�s a cool read can be a discussion catalyst by itself

If someone wants to put their analysis/critique/whatever, of course, even better

# ? Feb 28, 2024 03:18

FirstnameLastname: Jul 10, 2022

Brain Candy posted:

why is it a good model? you like it, cool, but why would it be effective? why would it be now? why wasn't it then?

black us troops have most reasons to oppose the current system of anyone who's a part of upholding it when that's already a fixed & very valuable pool of people to reach
black people are also overrepresented in the military by overall population so its gonna be a smaller # of overall people you have to appeal to to get the same effect bc every military member who switches is -1/+1 stuff like that adds up

demographically the most unstable link of the ruling class' power structure, mistake to ignore that imo

# ? Feb 28, 2024 03:31

Queer Grenadier: Jun 14, 2023; THIS GUY HAS A POOPY BOOM BOOM

HE NOT WARSHING HE HOLES LOL

Son of Thunderbeast posted:

In an interesting coincidence, I just today got to this letter by Bobby Seale from The Black Panthers Speak, that addresses the topic from his perspective (and that of the party). I think it's a good model.

I can't find an online version to copy/paste so I've transcribed it (in full and uncensored) below.

The thing that stands out the most to me is the strong underlying heartbeat of solidarity and empathy and love that resonates through every word. He never loses sight of it (nor do any of the other Panthers), or the humanity of his intended audience (Black US soldiers--but also others, including white soldiers who know what's up). He makes sure to keep the true common enemy in focus at all times.

Really appreciate you transcribing this. I enjoyed reading it. I echo your sentiment - it�s class that divides! Everybody stop, and look what�s going on. Who�s dividing us?

When I was serving in Afghanistan I had a moment where I realized that the people I was fighting were more like me than the people who told me to fight. We both felt like we were defending our nations. They literally were.

Solidarity!

# ? Feb 28, 2024 03:46

Brain Candy: May 18, 2006

FirstnameLastname posted:

black us troops have most reasons to oppose the current system of anyone who's a part of upholding it when that's already a fixed & very valuable pool of people to reach
black people are also overrepresented in the military by overall population so its gonna be a smaller # of overall people you have to appeal to to get the same effect bc every military member who switches is -1/+1 stuff like that adds up

demographically the most unstable link of the ruling class' power structure, mistake to ignore that imo

sure this makes some kind of sense, but the didn't work part is important. and this is me going for it, but i think it's exactly because the military is less racist as part of the bonus for doing head stomping. it's janissaries version whatever, an even older trick than that and it's keeps coming up in history, like with the sikhs or the cossacks or &c

# ? Feb 28, 2024 04:25

mila kunis: Jun 10, 2011

Brain Candy posted:

sure this makes some kind of sense, but the didn't work part is important.

i think thats a good point and i don't have a good analysis of why it didn't work.

the late 60s-70s is an interesting period because it was the moment of greatest weakness of the west in the cold war, and pretty much the height of the communist bloc in terms of area controlled, power, living standards etc. in the 70s you had inflation and the capitalist profitability crises, strong and organized labour (and especially militant and class conscious in places like the UK), the failure in iran, oil shocks and america's own gulf state protectorates daring to embargo the usa itself, you had the loving church committee and sitting members of congress taking aim at the goddamn CIA, something that would be unthinkable today. post vietnam malaise, and all of that. every single person thought the west was on permanent decline, from reactionaries to libs to socialists. if ever there was a moment in time where you could appeal to disaffected vets, especially disaffected black vets, to take part in some kind of socialist coalition that was probably a good time.

and yet there nobody was able to build a communist movement in that period with even the strength of the american communist movement in the 30s, why? what happened?

unfortunately the 70s passed and china came and saved the capitalist system by re-guaranteeing profitability with cheaper labour, among other things (the RWN boys see the year 1979 as one of the great turning points in history), but that's another story - why was the 70s moment missed?

# ? Feb 28, 2024 05:06

FirstnameLastname: Jul 10, 2022

mila kunis posted:

and yet there nobody was able to build a communist movement in that period with even the strength of the american communist movement in the 30s, why? what happened?

cia, fbi, nsa
the stalling of leftism worldwide has been from the rise of the intelligence state
you don't hear about the same inspiring people because before they can become that inspiring they get clipped groups that have potential are filled with feds before they can get off the ground
imo they've gotten worse at it than they were because they don't view leftism as a credible threat to anything and the truly ideologically driven anticommunists got old and died but at the same time the conditions haven't gotten bad enough for that base to regrow is all the problem i think and once poo poo declines a lil more yu where it's fully undeniable it'll get a lot more leniny real quick

# ? Feb 28, 2024 05:18

Son of Thunderbeast: Sep 21, 2002

Brain Candy posted:

why is it a good model? you like it, cool, but why would it be effective? why would it be now? why wasn't it then?

Depends on what you mean by "effective" because that can mean a whole lot of things at a whole lot of scales.

Did this letter cause an uprising in the US military? Did it create communism? Of course not, and it would be silly to expect that, or argue that it should have to, to be considered effective. Of course it wouldn't be "effective" in this sense, in any era.

Did it sway the hearts and minds of soldiers who may have been harboring doubts or been coming to the same conclusions on their own? Maybe prompt some of them to look into socialism on their own, or look into a local BPP chapter to see how they could help, or otherwise raise consciousness? I guarantee it did. And to me, that's effective.

I shared the letter as an example of the type of rhetoric that would be best if one wanted to talk to people in the military for the purposes of propaganda/conversion. In that sense, I say it was effective then, and now.

# ? Feb 28, 2024 07:05

BillsPhoenix: Jun 29, 2023; But what if Russia aren't the bad guys? I'm just asking questions...

Reread Chapter 1. Douglas Adams covers the flaws in assumptions Marx makes about the existence of a divine far better than I can.

Something non-religious type often decry, is that logically, the 3 major "same god" religions are perfectly logical. Apply the same critiques to "proof God is real" logical arguments in reverse.

Practically though, that's not useful. I only bring it up for the people citing the infallibility of dialetical materialism.

I had studied chapter 1 as a "why it's wrong" before. Rereading, it's really pretty basic stuff. One of the critiques is reducing labor to a function of time for parallel comparison.

Had a full day on peasant vs free person labor efficency, which ignores Marx is only simplifying for comparison, I assume a deep dive comes later.

# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:11

DeimosRising: Oct 17, 2005; �Hola SEA!

BillsPhoenix posted:

Had a full day on peasant vs free person labor efficency, which ignores Marx is only simplifying for comparison, I assume a deep dive comes later.

a whole day, drat

# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:17

Son of Thunderbeast: Sep 21, 2002

Is crossing someone up anti-revolutionary?

(it's real)

# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:22

Tsitsikovas: Aug 2, 2023

Being a huge manu ginobili fan, I adore that I get to randomly say "yknow fidel castro basically invented the euro step actually" during bball talk now. Love 2b that guy now.

# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:25

uninterrupted: Jun 20, 2011

BillsPhoenix posted:

Reread Chapter 1. Douglas Adams covers the flaws in assumptions Marx makes about the existence of a divine far better than I can.

who gives a poo poo what the dilbert guy thinks?

# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:28

BillsPhoenix: Jun 29, 2023; But what if Russia aren't the bad guys? I'm just asking questions...

Yeah, it involves the rectangle and triangles (Marx didn't invent that bit).

Socialism dictates how much each triangle gets filled, which yields uneven profits. Fitting the uneven triangles back together is a visual of the inefficiency. (G2000s posts havea ton of historical evidence that socialism can and does adjust quantities produced, rendering this argument silly)

Communism will fill each triangle until marginal return (profit) goes negative. This is true of a commune, but is a false claim about communism, as communism nations have central planning.

Capitalist will maximize profits, allocating perfect labor to each triangle, self correcting to fit the overall rectangle when something is over utilized. Nothing wrong in theory here.

There's then math using a 2 commodity market to prove it out, but that disregards the inaccurate claims about communism and socialism.

# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:38

Karach: May 23, 2003; no war but class war

what in the

# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:40

FirstnameLastname: Jul 10, 2022

what

# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:41

mycomancy: Oct 16, 2016

BillsPhoenix posted:

Yeah, it involves the rectangle and triangles (Marx didn't invent that bit).

Socialism dictates how much each triangle gets filled, which yields uneven profits. Fitting the uneven triangles back together is a visual of the inefficiency. (G2000s posts havea ton of historical evidence that socialism can and does adjust quantities produced, rendering this argument silly)

Communism will fill each triangle until marginal return (profit) goes negative. This is true of a commune, but is a false claim about communism, as communism nations have central planning.

Capitalist will maximize profits, allocating perfect labor to each triangle, self correcting to fit the overall rectangle when something is over utilized. Nothing wrong in theory here.

There's then math using a 2 commodity market to prove it out, but that disregards the inaccurate claims about communism and socialism.

Please gently caress off forever, moron

# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:42

Al!: Apr 2, 2010

BillsPhoenix posted:

Yeah, it involves the rectangle and triangles (Marx didn't invent that bit).

Socialism dictates how much each triangle gets filled, which yields uneven profits. Fitting the uneven triangles back together is a visual of the inefficiency. (G2000s posts havea ton of historical evidence that socialism can and does adjust quantities produced, rendering this argument silly)

Communism will fill each triangle until marginal return (profit) goes negative. This is true of a commune, but is a false claim about communism, as communism nations have central planning.

Capitalist will maximize profits, allocating perfect labor to each triangle, self correcting to fit the overall rectangle when something is over utilized. Nothing wrong in theory here.

There's then math using a 2 commodity market to prove it out, but that disregards the inaccurate claims about communism and socialism.

# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:43

Rodney The Yam II: Mar 3, 2007

# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:46

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

BillsPhoenix posted:

Reread Chapter 1. Douglas Adams covers the flaws in assumptions Marx makes about the existence of a divine far better than I can.

Something non-religious type often decry, is that logically, the 3 major "same god" religions are perfectly logical. Apply the same critiques to "proof God is real" logical arguments in reverse.

Practically though, that's not useful. I only bring it up for the people citing the infallibility of dialetical materialism.

I had studied chapter 1 as a "why it's wrong" before. Rereading, it's really pretty basic stuff. One of the critiques is reducing labor to a function of time for parallel comparison.

Had a full day on peasant vs free person labor efficency, which ignores Marx is only simplifying for comparison, I assume a deep dive comes later.

How are you this goddamn unhinged?

Reread chapter 1 of what? Who the gently caress is Douglas Adams and how is he pertinent to chapter one? What flaws in what assumptions? You're not saying a goddamn thing just typing words.

# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:50

Al!: Apr 2, 2010

updated my chart to include rectangles and triangles along with spheres

# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:52

Mechafunkzilla: Sep 11, 2006; If you want a vision of the future...

[Marxism] It involves the rectangle and triangles

# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:52

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# ? May 26, 2024 21:53

BillsPhoenix: Jun 29, 2023; But what if Russia aren't the bad guys? I'm just asking questions...

Lmao a thread full of philoshers can't identify Douglas Adams.

I guess I will gently caress off, I over estimated everyone.

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# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:52

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Marx] I put on my anti-coat and wizard hat

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