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They definitely weren't for shows
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Feb 28, 2024 00:24
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Captain Joe posted:On an entirely different point, I also watched CCA and it felt like the plot moved way too fast Or that things happen at a lightning pace. Even given that it’s a movie, is that odd? Dollars to donuts you feel the exact same way about F91, Tomino’s trying to cram so much into only 2 hours. As others have said, CCA gets a lot better on a rewatch, and I’m assuming that’ll happen when I rewatch F91.
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Feb 28, 2024 01:02
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https://twitter.com/gundaminfona/status/1762608556300218511 someone get mark gatha out of voice acting retirement
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Feb 28, 2024 01:07
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Hellioning posted:WfM is very good and its primary problem is that there is not more of it. Pretty much all of it’s problems would have been solved if it had been upped to ~50 episodes so I agree. Definitely feel like the moment Shadiq is captured they realized they had nowhere near enough episodes left to tell their story and had to release a stripped down barebones version. Like a series that is its own compilation movie. I still loved the series and think it’s on the higher tiers of Gundam though.
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Feb 28, 2024 01:12
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MechaX posted:https://twitter.com/gundaminfona/status/1762608556300218511 gently caress ok i guess i'll buy the game
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Feb 28, 2024 01:26
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I know it's probably too much to ask for Ocean to do the voice work since they'll probably not be doing Vancouver recordings but I'd love to hear Scott and Brad again. Unrelated. I may have said this before but I love how Hathaway's opening song is straight out of a James Bond film. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjBL9trEfio Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Feb 28, 2024 |
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Feb 28, 2024 01:56
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galagazombie posted:Pretty much all of it’s problems would have been solved if it had been upped to ~50 episodes so I agree. Definitely feel like the moment Shadiq is captured they realized they had nowhere near enough episodes left to tell their story and had to release a stripped down barebones version. Like a series that is its own compilation movie. I still loved the series and think it’s on the higher tiers of Gundam though. There’s absolutely no guarantee that increasing the episodes would have drastically changed things. It’s the same writer as Geass, which did have 50 episodes, and was still a mess. I don’t think WfM was ever gonna be the show some wanted, no matter how many episodes it had
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Feb 28, 2024 02:36
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Exia posted:There’s absolutely no guarantee that increasing the episodes would have drastically changed things. It’s the same writer as Geass, which did have 50 episodes, and was still a mess. I don’t think WfM was ever gonna be the show some wanted, no matter how many episodes it had I don't know if more episodes would have fixed Witch but I also don't know if this is a good argument for it. Geass was two separate, very distinct messes.
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Feb 28, 2024 03:05
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First season of Geass was immaculate
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Feb 28, 2024 03:05
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Exia posted:There’s absolutely no guarantee that increasing the episodes would have drastically changed things. It’s the same writer as Geass, which did have 50 episodes, and was still a mess. I don’t think WfM was ever gonna be the show some wanted, no matter how many episodes it had Geass' problems were more because of the year gap between the two 26-episode seasons and Producers Notes about bringing new viewers up to speed. iirc.
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Feb 28, 2024 03:11
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galagazombie posted:Pretty much all of it’s problems would have been solved if it had been upped to ~50 episodes so I agree. Definitely feel like the moment Shadiq is captured they realized they had nowhere near enough episodes left to tell their story and had to release a stripped down barebones version. Like a series that is its own compilation movie. I still loved the series and think it’s on the higher tiers of Gundam though. IMO there is absolutely no way for WfM's existing story goals to stretch to 50 episodes without dragging hard unless you only gave the existing story like 4-5 more episodes maximum and then spent the remaining ~20 on inventing a new storyline about them toppling space capitalism or whatever, which would be a really different vibe because so much of WfM is dialed in around specifically Prospera.
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Feb 28, 2024 03:24
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36 episodes is possible but would still require a bit of padding.
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Feb 28, 2024 03:27
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Kanos posted:and then spent the remaining ~20 on inventing a new storyline about them toppling space capitalism or whatever, which would be a really different vibe because so much of WfM is dialed in around specifically Prospera. I mean I'd be all over that to be honest, considering how pretty well every other antagonist's motivation in the show is driven in some way by capitalist greed, either through desire to obtain power or to strike back at those abusing power.
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Feb 28, 2024 03:39
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Gaius Marius posted:First season of Geass was immaculate
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Feb 28, 2024 04:02
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https://twitter.com/latestinspace/status/1761917988909789236 Hmmm, that's quite a Shock...
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Feb 28, 2024 04:08
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Kanos posted:IMO there is absolutely no way for WfM's existing story goals to stretch to 50 episodes without dragging hard unless you only gave the existing story like 4-5 more episodes maximum and then spent the remaining ~20 on inventing a new storyline about them toppling space capitalism or whatever, which would be a really different vibe because so much of WfM is dialed in around specifically Prospera. If the story wasn't going to be about toppling space capitalism they probably should have spent less time talking about space capitalism and the many ways in which it sucks then.
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Feb 28, 2024 05:00
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Hellioning posted:If the story wasn't going to be about toppling space capitalism they probably should have spent less time talking about space capitalism and the many ways in which it sucks then. Did they really not do anything with that? That's almost funny but was probably just annoying when watching.
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Feb 28, 2024 05:06
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Hellioning posted:If the story wasn't going to be about toppling space capitalism they probably should have spent less time talking about space capitalism and the many ways in which it sucks then. This is why Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz is literally the only good Gundam series ever made. All the rest talk about how war is bad but never bother to end war forever.
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Feb 28, 2024 05:15
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I think Geass' problems boil more down to obvious behind the scenes stuff that leads to everything between Lelouch geassing Euphie and Lelouch enacting Zero's Requiem basically being a complete waste of time. They could have done it with a smaller episode count (or if they'd just been willing to have Lelouch do the actual bad thing instead of whoops my geass an accident) It's pretty clear the series ended pretty much where it was supposed to but you have to sit through a bunch of boring poo poo between S1 and S2's ending to get there.
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Feb 28, 2024 05:28
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Hellioning posted:If the story wasn't going to be about toppling space capitalism they probably should have spent less time talking about space capitalism and the many ways in which it sucks then. This is a valid line of discussion, but it's more of a "they needed to use their existing episodes differently" approach rather than a "they needed more episodes" approach. The core cast of the show just isn't very interested in how terrible space capitalism is. The only person who actually wants to overturn the system entirely, Shaddiq, is strictly coded as an rear end in a top hat villain who is completely defeated and used as a scapegoat for most of the bad things that happen. Two of the primary leads, Guel and Miorine, are silver spoon trust fund children who run headfirst into how nightmarish the system is and come out of it with "maybe this system should be slightly less murderous" rather than "burn it down root and branch". The main protagonist, Suletta, basically doesn't have an opinion on the matter at all. The main antagonist, Prospera, doesn't really care about the sufferings of the peasants - she has no problem getting them killed in droves to achieve her own objectives and is solely interested in revenge for her dead colleagues and resurrection for Eri.
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Feb 28, 2024 05:35
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When your solution to capitalism is to make everyone equally able to do capitalism by giving the the bad guys' money and assets to the oppressed underclass and hope that a mixture of cold war tensions and good guy CEOs will be enough to prevent further bloodshed I start to question whether the story has correctly identified the cause and not just the symptoms. The show also has a habit of using abuses of the lower class for shock value and then not letting representative characters from the lower class react to it all that much. Earth House are the poor kids at school and they brush off so much as just bullying and harassment rather than "this system is literally killing us and our loved ones" I'm with ImpAtom that it feels like three different shows colliding with each other rather than meshing together smoothly. One show will jostle its way into the forefront for an episode and then it will swing back to another show and make you wonder if what you just saw will have any greater meaning or payoff. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Feb 28, 2024 |
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Feb 28, 2024 05:42
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i don't think shaddiq's plan is meant to be taken as the true and good solution to capitalism any more than char's plan in CCA is meant to be a real solution to UC's various problems
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Feb 28, 2024 05:51
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ninjewtsu posted:i don't think shaddiq's plan is meant to be taken as the true and good solution to capitalism any more than char's plan in CCA is meant to be a real solution to UC's various problems It's not but when Miorine does the exact same thing plus a bit extra it is framed by the story as a heroic act with only an occasional shrug towards the shortcomings of such a plan. The show never really brought up any alternatives to Shaddiq's plan so the script is running with what its got. It's there to answer a question the show raises. I just don't think it's a particularly satisfying answer despite the tone of the scenes insisting that it is good. It reminds me too much of Full Frontal's Continental System/Prosperity Sphere plan in Unicorn, except that in that instance Mineva immediately called out the scheme as bullshit that wouldn't work citing historical precedent within gundam itself, let alone the historically broken systems that Fukui was drawing from when he wrote it. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Feb 28, 2024 |
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Feb 28, 2024 05:59
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ninjewtsu posted:i don't think shaddiq's plan is meant to be taken as the true and good solution to capitalism any more than char's plan in CCA is meant to be a real solution to UC's various problems Yeah the point isn't "Shaddiq was right", it's "Shaddiq is the only one who actually gave a real poo poo about meaningfully altering the terrible state of the system in G-Witch, even if his plan had tons of awful collateral damage and was probably not going to work". No one else really cares because the show simply isn't about fighting space capitalism. It's basically like how nobody in G Gundam is terribly interested in changing the Gundam Fight system besides some lip service towards "we'll make it less awful in the future", with the show even ending on "See you next fight". Kanos fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Feb 28, 2024 |
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Feb 28, 2024 06:23
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It's even directly stated at one point that Shaddiq doesn't actually want to make things better he just wants everything under his bootheel.
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Feb 28, 2024 06:30
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I'm not saying he wasn't, but that's not something he said (unless I'm forgetting something), and I think literally everyone ever who claimed to want to change things for the better got accused of that. And everything after he gets stopped feels like decent evidence in his favor
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Feb 28, 2024 07:35
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Kanos posted:IMO there is absolutely no way for WfM's existing story goals to stretch to 50 episodes without dragging hard unless you only gave the existing story like 4-5 more episodes maximum and then spent the remaining ~20 on inventing a new storyline about them toppling space capitalism or whatever, which would be a really different vibe because so much of WfM is dialed in around specifically Prospera. There were a lot of subplots that were just dropped entirely that all together could have easily filled that runtime, or at least ~36 eps if that’s still too much for some people. Hell the main villains deciding to change their plan from “revenge” to “creating the ghost zone” happened entirely off screen. That alone is something you can get some episodes out of.
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Feb 28, 2024 08:45
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overall i Really liked WfM but to me the funny part was the vibes of the other bad parental figures kinda getting downplayed after guels dad got owned and it shifted gears to being all about prospera maybe it was just my early read of the show seeming like it was leaning into more bad previous generations before shifting over to just prospera and her being stuck in the past/making a ghost zone or smth, idk if im describing this well because it still kinda does that but i guess the focus gets narrowed or w/e
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Feb 28, 2024 09:01
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galagazombie posted:There were a lot of subplots that were just dropped entirely that all together could have easily filled that runtime, or at least ~36 eps if that’s still too much for some people. Hell the main villains deciding to change their plan from “revenge” to “creating the ghost zone” happened entirely off screen. That alone is something you can get some episodes out of. Prospera's plan was 100% always "make a place for Eri to be happy", with revenge being something that's great if she can achieve it without compromising himself but she's willing to put it on the table and forget about it if she needs to in order to achieve the primary goal. Besides her willingly working closely with Delling, the example here is how she has numerous opportunities to kill Kenanji - the guy who personally murdered her husband and several of her colleagues in front of her - which she passes up completely because revenge isn't actually her main driving force and never was. Quiet Zero was always the plan, we just don't find out about the specifics of how it works until the latter part of the show. As for other dangling plotlines, uhh..I guess you could give another episode to Lauda? Another couple episodes building up the SAL? I'm a bit at a loss, because I already felt some aspects of S2 were dragging even in the runtime they had. The Plot Isolation Closet sticking around for multiple episodes wasn't great and the deliberately forced separation between Suletta and Miorine already lasted long enough.
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Feb 28, 2024 12:11
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Sophie and Norea had plans. :v
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Feb 28, 2024 12:56
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Kanos posted:Prospera's plan was 100% always "make a place for Eri to be happy", with revenge being something that's great if she can achieve it without compromising himself but she's willing to put it on the table and forget about it if she needs to in order to achieve the primary goal. Besides her willingly working closely with Delling, the example here is how she has numerous opportunities to kill Kenanji - the guy who personally murdered her husband and several of her colleagues in front of her - which she passes up completely because revenge isn't actually her main driving force and never was. Quiet Zero was always the plan, we just don't find out about the specifics of how it works until the latter part of the show. I'm honestly surprised, and a little disappointed, she didn't take the time to quietly take Kenanji out while false-flagging the port riot. Even just to take a potential threat off the board.
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Feb 28, 2024 14:37
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Waffleman_ posted:Also Tomino's movies are just kinda like that. It's pretty obvious with both CCA and F91 that they're compromised and truncated versions of what are meant to be longer stories CCA isn't compromised. it's a masterpiece
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Feb 28, 2024 14:54
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chrome line posted:I'm not saying he wasn't, but that's not something he said (unless I'm forgetting something), and I think literally everyone ever who claimed to want to change things for the better got accused of that. And everything after he gets stopped feels like decent evidence in his favor In the one-on-one when he’s kidnapped Sarius, he directly states he wants to usher in a cold war between Earth and Space so he can sell weapons to both sides and reap the benefits.
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Feb 28, 2024 16:14
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If Anaheim Electronics got teleported into the Ad Stella timeline they'd be running things by the end of the week.
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Feb 28, 2024 16:25
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Arc Hammer posted:If Anaheim Electronics got teleported into the Ad Stella timeline they'd be running things by the end of the week. Hah! True
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Feb 28, 2024 16:38
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I dunno, Anaheim never managed to really take over the UC despite being the only game in town, whereas the G-Witch corporations are in de jure control of huge parts of earth and space.
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Feb 28, 2024 16:45
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X-Ray Pecs posted:In the one-on-one when he’s kidnapped Sarius, he directly states he wants to usher in a cold war between Earth and Space so he can sell weapons to both sides and reap the benefits. i don't recall this. this is episode 20 right? guel vs shaddiq? or are you talking about the plan he explained to sarius about transferring benerit group assets to earthian companies for cheap so earthians have the capital (via their own military production businesses) and the means of retaliation necessary to oppose spacian rule? i'm pretty sure shaddiq is never stated to have aspirations beyond liberating earth aside from a line about how "someone has to be the one to seize power and help the earth out, and obviously my plan has that person being me" which implies that shaddiq may be using the whole earth liberation thing as an excuse to himself for why he's ruthlessly powergrabbing. whether that's his actual intention or if that's how it would actually play out if his plan succeeded is up to viewer interpretation, though i think how the show presents shaddiq after the fact is pretty well in line with "shaddiq had an evil plan with good intentions"
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Feb 28, 2024 18:12
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Arc Hammer posted:If Anaheim Electronics got teleported into the Ad Stella timeline they'd be running things by the end of the week. Put Teiwaz there, they'd be in charge by the end of the day. Also, a lot of people would get horse heads in their beds.
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Feb 28, 2024 19:51
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Gundam is very materialist and politically workable compared to the standard anime, but it's position as a product in the anime market kinda means that you can't tell a meandering story about the entirety of the political systems under which the characters live over the course of 110 episodes or whatever, so people always get a little disappointed at how it's not a complete refutation of capitalism through revolution and upheaval that everyone wants to see. It's still pretty cool and useful as a rhetorical object where systems of power and material wealth are depicted pretty reliably as extractive and violent, even if the plot of the show doesn't always lead to the celebratory destruction of those systems and the instantaneous appearance of a perfect and just world order. It's kinda why I like IBO so much, the part where the handsome man steals the ultimate robot that symbolizes ideological supremacy of the person piloting it and everyone else in power just kinda decides that they don't care about the ultimate robot and they're going to keep doing things the way they like is one of my favorite things to happen in an anime. Flournival Dixon fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Feb 28, 2024 |
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Feb 28, 2024 19:56
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Count Thrashula posted:Thanks for all the feedback! Yeah, most of the criticism I saw was admittedly on Facebook, so that could fully be because of having gay characters. The Gundam Facebook groups are all loving cesspools and should not be regarded with anything other than contempt. Runa posted:I get why you consider Kenanji a loose end but that character's entire situation was genuinely one of the funniest ways for that angle to go down. It's also startlingly realistic, because as far as the characters are concerned, from his perspective Kenanji was just doing his job and from Prospera's perspective she's got so much bigger fish to fry, she's absolutely willing to work with (and use) the people who murdered her friends and loved ones to do it and "the grunt who actually pulled the trigger on my husband" is clearly far down the list of her priorities. So while the audience is primed to hate him for his role in the prologue, the whiplash of meeting him again 20 years later is hilarious. I take a more straight read on the character, since he really exemplifies the career progression of starting off all full of piss and vinegar and drunk on the idealism of a cause, then fast forwarding out of that honeymoon period and becoming someone who is just doing a job. When we see him again after the prologue, his personality is much more affable. He's still resolute, but in a very matter-of-fact way. The man we see in the prologue would not have been interested in puzzling out the links between Dawn of the Fold and Shaddiq, but older, wiser, and more professional Kenanji instantly realizes there's more to the story and is interested in helping Guel chase down those leads. I would not think to compare him to Yazan, because Yazan wants to recapture his glory with the Titans, while Kenanji has moved past that when we see him. Maybe if we got a 20 year time skip for Yazan we'd see that too, but to my recollection his character never gets that perspective in the UC. He grows as a character in a very interesting way that is antithetical to him being a protagonist, but makes total sense given his place in the world. Is he a good guy? Nah. Is he affable and fun to watch? I think so. Arc Hammer posted:Amuro's "what" response is the cherry on top whe he realizes just what he's dealing with at that moment. And then Amuro dies. It's loving art, man. Arc Hammer posted:I know it's probably too much to ask for Ocean to do the voice work since they'll probably not be doing Vancouver recordings but I'd love to hear Scott and Brad again. The opening of Hathaway with the encounter on the shuttle flight and the cut into the Skyfall-esque opening absolutely sold me on Hathaway when I was a bit skeptical from the summaries of the books I'd heard. Kanos posted:I dunno, Anaheim never managed to really take over the UC despite being the only game in town, whereas the G-Witch corporations are in de jure control of huge parts of earth and space. I don't think their goal, at least pre-Unicorn, had anything to do with taking over anything. They're a corporation. They want to make shitloads of money and you don't need to be the rulers of the Earth Sphere to do that. You just need to ensure a favorable business environment. Which they do very well until the Vist family starts getting delusions of grandeur in Unicorn. The Titans and Axis were threats that destabilized that business environment. The Titans did a shitload of in-house development and didn't want anything to do with buying AE products because they're insular fascists and Jamitov's big-brain scheme didn't include a spot for Anaheim at the table. Simiarly Axis didn't need Anaheim to sell them weapons, and if they took control and clamped down there would be very little opportunity for Anaheim to make a profit. Meanwhile by Hathaway, Anaheim is back to its old schemes selling weapons to both the Federation and Mafty because the arrangement is much more conducive to playing both sides without risking Anaheim's bottom line and future profitability. Mafty isn't a real threat to the Federation from Anaheim's perspective, and Anaheim has a very good reason to want to stoke the conflict as a way to show off its products because this is the time when the Federation is moving development back in house (the Gustav Karl) and is about to spin off the SNRI that ultimately leads to Anaheim's decline in the F90, F91, and Crossbone eras.
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