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chiasaur11 posted:Put Teiwaz there, they'd be in charge by the end of the day. Also, a lot of people would get horse heads in their beds. Even just dropping in McMurdo (and Rustal, if you really want to be unfair) seems like enough to completely reshape geopolitics in the solar system. IBO has some scarily competent players high up in its power structures.
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Feb 28, 2024 20:45
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Warmachine posted:I don't think their goal, at least pre-Unicorn, had anything to do with taking over anything. They're a corporation. They want to make shitloads of money and you don't need to be the rulers of the Earth Sphere to do that. You just need to ensure a favorable business environment. Which they do very well until the Vist family starts getting delusions of grandeur in Unicorn. The Titans and Axis were threats that destabilized that business environment. The Titans did a shitload of in-house development and didn't want anything to do with buying AE products because they're insular fascists and Jamitov's big-brain scheme didn't include a spot for Anaheim at the table. Simiarly Axis didn't need Anaheim to sell them weapons, and if they took control and clamped down there would be very little opportunity for Anaheim to make a profit. Yeah but that was in response to a joke post saying that Anaheim would take over G-Witch's setting more efficiently than the corporations in G-Witch already had. Anaheim basically has a decade-long period where they're printing money hand over fist and have enough clout and influence to seriously influence UC politics and then they start declining into irrelevancy.
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Feb 28, 2024 20:49
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anaheim in ad stella is just peil with less personality (shame we never got to dig into peil being run by chatgpt)
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Feb 28, 2024 21:18
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wait did anaheim even do anything with cybernewtypes? that was a titans in house project right?
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Feb 28, 2024 21:20
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ninjewtsu posted:wait did anaheim even do anything with cybernewtypes? that was a titans in house project right? Some of the side material says they had their own Cyber Newtype stuff because they needed to have actual Newtypes to test their Newtype poo poo. Mad Wang's protagonists are, IIRC, cryo-frozen Anaheim Cyber Newtypes.
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Feb 28, 2024 21:27
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Anaheim didn't really do a lot of in-house newtype stuff besides using the psycoframe in the Sazabi and the Nu Gundam, which was provided to them by Neo Zeon.
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Feb 28, 2024 21:27
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ninjewtsu posted:wait did anaheim even do anything with cybernewtypes? that was a titans in house project right? They were messing with them in Unicorn no?
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Feb 28, 2024 21:28
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if i wanted to play one of the good gundam breakers while waiting for four whats the best way to go about it
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Feb 28, 2024 21:29
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Stairmaster posted:if i wanted to play one of the good gundam breakers while waiting for four whats the best way to go about it The digital SEA verison of Gundam Breaker 3 Break Edition goes on sale all the time and contains everything you need.
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Feb 28, 2024 21:31
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That Works posted:They were messing with them in Unicorn no? It's more that they had access to the tech via the Federation. 99% sure Marida's reprogramming occurred at the Augusta lab because they specifically talk about the old labs like Augusta still being accessible. To be frank, everyone dipped their fingers in the cybernewtype soup at some point in the early UC whether it was to actually produce cybernewtypes or to simply leech off the tech those programs produced.
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Feb 28, 2024 21:37
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That Works posted:They were messing with them in Unicorn no? They straight up used a mothballed Quebeley to flip Marida's cyber switches. Even if they didn't own it themselves they certainly know how to use it to their own ends.
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Feb 28, 2024 21:38
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Warmachine posted:I take a more straight read on the character, since he really exemplifies the career progression of starting off all full of piss and vinegar and drunk on the idealism of a cause, then fast forwarding out of that honeymoon period and becoming someone who is just doing a job. When we see him again after the prologue, his personality is much more affable. He's still resolute, but in a very matter-of-fact way. The man we see in the prologue would not have been interested in puzzling out the links between Dawn of the Fold and Shaddiq, but older, wiser, and more professional Kenanji instantly realizes there's more to the story and is interested in helping Guel chase down those leads. That's a better read on the character than mine, thanks I think I'll be using it moving forward
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Feb 28, 2024 22:14
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Flournival Dixon posted:Gundam is very materialist and politically workable compared to the standard anime, but it's position as a product in the anime market kinda means that you can't tell a meandering story about the entirety of the political systems under which the characters live over the course of 110 episodes or whatever, so people always get a little disappointed at how it's not a complete refutation of capitalism through revolution and upheaval that everyone wants to see. I feel relatively confident that the number of people who would watch a gundam anime looking for a "refutation of capitalism" could be counted on a large abacus at best.
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Feb 28, 2024 22:36
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:I feel relatively confident that the number of people who would watch a gundam anime looking for a "refutation of capitalism" could be counted on a large abacus at best. Yeah I mean at the end of the day it is a cartoon that is meant to sell you boxes of plastic
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Feb 28, 2024 22:44
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:I feel relatively confident that the number of people who would watch a gundam anime looking for a "refutation of capitalism" could be counted on a large abacus at best. Their posting power lies far beyond their numbers however.
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Feb 28, 2024 22:45
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:I feel relatively confident that the number of people who would watch a gundam anime looking for a "refutation of capitalism" could be counted on a large abacus at best. My friend this is Something Awful, where if Blue's Clues doesn't properly refute capitalism it is a sin against the world.
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Feb 28, 2024 22:46
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:I feel relatively confident that the number of people who would watch a gundam anime looking for a "refutation of capitalism" could be counted on a large abacus at best. An injection molded plastic gargoyle would say that about gundam.
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Feb 28, 2024 23:07
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Gundam shows have pretty much always advocated incrementalism and the idea that existing systems can be redeemed if only you can remove the bad actors from within them rather than root-and-branch revolution and systemic upheaval.
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Feb 28, 2024 23:21
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Maybe it's that the idea of incrementalism rings less true these days, particularly when your newest show straight up says that corporate greed is killing people. It hits somewhat closer to home when it's a corrupt businessman gunning down the working class rather than masking it up with space princesses and aristocracy. There isn't that degree of separation anymore when the absuive power structures are the same ones screwing us over in the reap world.
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Feb 28, 2024 23:28
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Arc Hammer posted:Maybe it's that the idea of incrementalism rings less true these days, particularly when your newest show straight up says that corporate greed is killing people. It hits somewhat closer to home when it's a corrupt businessman gunning down the working class rather than masking it up with space princesses and aristocracy. There isn't that degree of separation anymore when the absuive power structures are the same ones screwing us over in the reap world. The original show was created by a guy who lived through Imperial Japan. Bad things are not new.
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Feb 28, 2024 23:38
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No poo poo bad things aren't new, except I didn't live through Imperial Japan. I absolutely am living through the systematic dismantling of the social safety net and privatization of public services by ruling kleptocracies. Which one is the more immediately relevant, particularly when the latest show makes it a central conceit? I'm not sure what your point is. Things have been bad for a while so you shouldn't treat the current bad situation as being worse or more relevant to you individually than a past bad situation? Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Feb 29, 2024 |
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Feb 28, 2024 23:56
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Arc Hammer posted:There isn't that degree of separation anymore when the absuive power structures are the same ones screwing us over in the reap world. i think the point is that this degree of separation never really existed gundam was in part about how lovely fascism is but it doesn't exactly have an answer to fascism other than "go char aznable on their asses and blast them in the head with rocket launchers" norea, however, was not nearly so well received for going that route ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Feb 29, 2024 |
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Feb 29, 2024 00:22
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it's pretty notable that gundam's relationship with fascism took 3 shows that were each double gwitch's length and also a movie to basically come down to "who knows how to solve the constant re-emergence of fascism, every angle you can approach this from is kind of poo poo in one way or another because power structures are inherently corrupt and fascism is always born out of greater societal ills that also aren't easily solved" between the SAL and shaddiq and i guess prospera in a way gwitch kind of implies a similar conclusion with capitalism, with miorine trying her best in the epilogue to navigate improving the world without losing her personal life with suletta in a fruitless and doomed attempt at radical action.
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Feb 29, 2024 00:31
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I can solve the cycle of violence with a single very large act of violence.
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Feb 29, 2024 00:37
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ninjewtsu posted:i think the point is that this degree of separation never really existed When you strip away all the titles like Imperialism, Capitalism, Spaceism and monikers like Princess, King, Boss, etc, it ultimately renders down to those with power and those without. G-Witch hitting on the businessman angle gives it a contemporary context that makes it more immediately identifiable and applicable to everyday life experience, hence why I personally feel more impacted by it. ninjewtsu posted:between the SAL and shaddiq and i guess prospera in a way gwitch kind of implies a similar conclusion with capitalism, with miorine trying her best in the epilogue to navigate improving the world without losing her personal life with suletta in a fruitless and doomed attempt at radical action. Miorine also has an inherent privilege both within the setting as a member of the upper class and metatextually as a protagonist that gives her a degree of protection from missteps that could come in the strive to make a better world. That's something that isn't an automatic guarantee for the people who make up the bulk of victims within the story. Money makes a great cushion. But G-Witch isn't a story about the lower class working day to day in a world slowly strangling them to death for the crime of not being rich. It kinda sucks that the ones who push for radical change in the story are the ones most affected by the status quo and are also primarily antagonists. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Feb 29, 2024 |
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Feb 29, 2024 00:47
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ImpAtom posted:The digital SEA verison of Gundam Breaker 3 Break Edition goes on sale all the time and contains everything you need. Breaker 3 Break Edition is very good and fun and is the standard 4 will be held to.
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Feb 29, 2024 00:51
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:I feel relatively confident that the number of people who would watch a gundam anime looking for a "refutation of capitalism" could be counted on a large abacus at best. A ten string abacus can count the entire human population, but i guess i do usually forget that the wow cool robot people are a pretty big thing ninjewtsu posted:it's pretty notable that gundam's relationship with fascism took 3 shows that were each double gwitch's length and also a movie to basically come down to "who knows how to solve the constant re-emergence of fascism, every angle you can approach this from is kind of poo poo in one way or another because power structures are inherently corrupt and fascism is always born out of greater societal ills that also aren't easily solved" As hard as it is to get people to think about class consciousness and large scale organization in America, it's probably an even harder sell in a country like Japan. I guess those kinds of things might not make for the most interesting anime action shows, it might not be that easy to get to the idea of working class politics through stories where people have individual psychic super powers and are funded by corporations and nations that build giant robots for them. Maybe you just can't really tell a story where meaningful and lasting change is possible if you're not allowed to talk about class in that way, I dunno. e: I guess also most people are not as interested in a story about that as they are in a story about like relationships. I just wish they could succeed against the structure like in Utena rather than just accepting incrementalism lol Flournival Dixon fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Feb 29, 2024 |
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Feb 29, 2024 00:51
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ImpAtom posted:My friend this is Something Awful, where if Blue's Clues doesn't properly refute capitalism it is a sin against the world. lmfao
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Feb 29, 2024 01:39
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Kanos posted:Gundam shows have pretty much always advocated incrementalism and the idea that existing systems can be redeemed if only you can remove the bad actors from within them rather than root-and-branch revolution and systemic upheaval. IBO goes with the similar but subtly different left-pessimist take of 'violent rebellion is effective for driving sweeping social reform, but it'll be conducted by maladjusted members of the underclass who will end up vilified and dead in a heap while their enemies take all the credit and reap most of the rewards for making society better'.
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Feb 29, 2024 01:59
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Darth Walrus posted:IBO goes with the similar but subtly different left-pessimist take of 'violent rebellion is effective for driving sweeping social reform, but it'll be conducted by maladjusted members of the underclass who will end up vilified and dead in a heap while their enemies take all the credit and reap most of the rewards for making society better'. IBO and G-Witch have basically the same ending, it's just that the main characters of G-Witch are the Rustal equivalent
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Feb 29, 2024 02:36
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Darth Walrus posted:IBO goes with the similar but subtly different left-pessimist take of 'violent rebellion is effective for driving sweeping social reform, but it'll be conducted by maladjusted members of the underclass who will end up vilified and dead in a heap while their enemies take all the credit and reap most of the rewards for making society better'. The social reform in IBO isn't even really all that sweeping. Gjallarhorn is "reformed" but Rustal retains all of the actual power and the concessions he makes are things that characters like Kudelia want but crucially also actively help him maintain power. Most Gundam shows at least have the leaders of the antagonist faction get forced out of power or blown up rather than them simply winning. Kanos fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Feb 29, 2024 |
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Feb 29, 2024 03:32
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Kanos posted:The social reform in IBO isn't even really all that sweeping. Gjallarhorn is "reformed" but Rustal retains all of the actual power and the concessions he makes are things that characters like Kudelia want but crucially also actively help him maintain power. Most Gundam shows at least have the leaders of the antagonist faction get forced out of power or blown up rather than them simply winning. Rustal doesn't keep power. He gains power. He was 3rd at best among the Seven Stars, but he's up to first place in a democratic Gjallarhorn. However, the structure means his successors (other than Julieta) will have power much more limited by the need to maintain the popular support he gets by default. Mind, Gjallarhorn isn't the focus of the show. Mars is. And Mars has much bigger reforms, with Gjallarhorn and Earth leaving it fully to its own devices, even as the Human Debris system is finally wiped out. Most Gundam shows have the leader of the antagonists explode, but it doesn't do anything in the long run. Titans gone, Manhunters take their place. Zeon is defeated, Neo Zeon (somehow) takes over the Earth sphere less than a decade later. Meanwhile, PD has Rustal live to a ripe old age as far as we see, but the solar system improves significantly because he wants to be sure there'll never be another Tekkadan to take a shot at him.
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Feb 29, 2024 08:33
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Rustal absolutely wasn't third at best among the Seven Stars based on what we see on screen, even if that was the officially stated ranking, because there's simply no one who demonstrates anywhere near as much personal power as he does. He was the uncontested head of the single largest and most powerful military force in a primarily military organization and while every other member of the Seven Stars was forced into a situation where they had to capitulate or declare "neutrality" regarding McGillis, Rustal simply went "lol, no, I don't care in the slightest, I'm so personally powerful and confident in the loyalty of my subordinates that I can simply openly and directly oppose a coup that neutralized every other Seven Stars family completely on my own using only my personal resources". Him taking over in the end was just acknowledging what was already functionally true.
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Feb 29, 2024 13:51
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Isn't that part of the whole point? Like, the group has this whole mythology behind them that McGillis bought into, thinking if he had this sick rear end gundam and destroyed a mobile armour he'd be heralded as a hero or some poo poo but the group isn't that same group anymore, all of that poo poo is just dressing for a bunch of people who play political games now. Rustal being ranked third doesn't matter because he's very clearly the one with all the power.
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Feb 29, 2024 13:58
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ninjewtsu posted:i think the point is that this degree of separation never really existed I mean that's a pretty good answer to fascism.
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Feb 29, 2024 16:18
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it's certainly a good step 1, but the point is that the criticisms people have of how gwitch handles capitalism tend to also apply to how gundam in general treats fascism - it's not something that gets resolved long term. sadly, lasering off kycelia's head did not stop the emergence of neo zeon. or char's fascist faction in CCA. or the sleeves in unicorn. one might say that gundam presents complicated problems and less explores how you could effectively solve them and more explores how attempts to solve them can easily break down into other bad situations. ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Feb 29, 2024 |
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Feb 29, 2024 17:14
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Nuebot posted:Isn't that part of the whole point? Like, the group has this whole mythology behind them that McGillis bought into, thinking if he had this sick rear end gundam and destroyed a mobile armour he'd be heralded as a hero or some poo poo but the group isn't that same group anymore, all of that poo poo is just dressing for a bunch of people who play political games now. Rustal being ranked third doesn't matter because he's very clearly the one with all the power. Different parts of the mythos. MA kills are still the core of the heirarchy, McGillis got it into his head the Bael Gundam was Excalibur and having that made him Super King above all that. That was the part the Seven Stars said "Uhhh, what?" to rather than stand and clap at their new self-declared king. And it's great from an audience perspective, as you realize McGillis is short a few screws and Tekkadan really backed the wrong horse. And it's driving their cart towards a cliff...
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Feb 29, 2024 17:17
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Yeah, the reveal that McGillis was literal a giant manchild who absolutely believed that he just needed the Gundam and he'd win forever was pretty amazing. Everything about the character perfectly comes together when you realize he isn't a super genius, he's just basically being Char with the "this is actually an incredibly stupid way of doing this" being intentional.
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Feb 29, 2024 17:21
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ninjewtsu posted:it's certainly a good step 1, but the point is that the criticisms people have of how gwitch handles capitalism tend to also apply to how gundam in general treats fascism - it's not something that gets resolved long term. sadly, lasering off kycelia's head did not stop the emergence of neo zeon. or char's fascist faction in CCA. or the sleeves in unicorn. I mean, the Federation finishing the job and pursuing retreating Zeon Forces to Axis would've definitely put a stop to neo Zeon. Btu so would have taking steps and doing reform- but actually doing needed reforms would've made the Federation into something that isn't LDP Japan.
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Feb 29, 2024 17:23
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is the opportunity the federation had to chase down the axis fleet explored in some show?
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Feb 29, 2024 17:28
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