(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
|
i say swears online posted:those chow halls used to be a lot more revolutionary when it was the military feeding the military instead of neoliberalized to contractors
|
# ? Feb 27, 2024 07:30 |
|
|
# ? May 27, 2024 02:17 |
|
Son of Thunderbeast posted:
As someone who joined as an actual idealistic liberal, quickly realized something was very wrong with my worldview, and left as a communist I agree strongly that this is a fools errand relative to all the things you could do with a fraction that amount of time and energy. It is too large and disperse and institution and the personnel management system deliberately exists to prevent cliques of any kind forming in the military, it would require a very large vanguard organization planting enough people at snco or officer positions to by luck get critical mass of enough people assigned to enough important roles in the same area for infiltration to work without that somehow being discovered because that is very loving illegal in the US. I met a lot of individuals, even a couple special forces type guys who were borderline leftists or fellow travelers but everyone who was at that stage was on their way out and not exactly in line for any important positions. And no where near a critical mass much less high ranking people. All junior enlisted and ncos. Butter Activities has issued a correction as of 07:36 on Feb 27, 2024 |
# ? Feb 27, 2024 07:31 |
|
dead gay comedy forums posted:If someone is going to throw lumpenproletariat around without just a teeny tiny bit of class analysis of the United States for the year of our lord of 2024, it's basically semantic mush yes, that's why it came with the teeny bit of analysis necessary
|
# ? Feb 27, 2024 07:39 |
|
Son of Thunderbeast posted:god drat, lol i think this shift is extremely important
|
# ? Feb 27, 2024 07:41 |
|
i say swears online posted:i think this shift is extremely important You're absolutely right. I was just suddenly hit with how much it's changed. I can't really trust my assumptions at all anymore lol. But I think that underscores the importance of, if you're going to work at raising consciousness in the military, best to do it at arm's length. Just talk to them, esp friends/family. Son of Thunderbeast has issued a correction as of 07:44 on Feb 27, 2024 |
# ? Feb 27, 2024 07:41 |
|
Brain Candy posted:yes, that's why it came with the teeny bit of analysis necessary lmao I mean, it isn't wrong, just to remind that the term never got to a full categorical definition that is easily understood by everybody. But having the attitude of being in it for the money is a very good start always
|
# ? Feb 27, 2024 07:43 |
|
i say swears online posted:i think this shift is extremely important It is yeah. It's not just about the military anymore, but also the massive bloated network of contractors, subcontractors, PMCs, and other civilian support staff that props it up.
|
# ? Feb 27, 2024 07:44 |
|
Son of Thunderbeast posted:You're absolutely right. I was just suddenly hit with how much it's changed in Basic in '09 everyone made fun of the guy that was in waste disposal but he may very well have been the last person paid by the government to ensure your water is clean
|
# ? Feb 27, 2024 07:45 |
|
That’s actually really interesting. The privatization of the support troops of the military would from the perspective of capital neutralize the threat that the military poses to them as the one locus of power in the US that is still somewhat independent. It would be best for them to have an elite military with no support personnel though I think if they attempted to accelerate that process more quickly the military would still be able to push back for a long time because even the generals mostly understand what privatization actually means.
|
# ? Feb 27, 2024 07:50 |
|
SMEGMA_MAIL posted:because even the generals mostly understand what privatization actually means. i think this is loving insane. generals are going to get theirs and that's the way it has been. do you have a feifdom to offer them? if not, don't theorize. i thnk this dynamic means very serious trouble for very normal people
|
# ? Feb 27, 2024 07:54 |
|
i say swears online posted:i think this is loving insane. generals are going to get theirs and that's the way it has been. do you have a feifdom to offer them? if not, don't theorize. I’m saying right now enough of them believe in the institution and know that a privatized military is a threat to their power and the power of the institution being able to function. And I think a dramatic attempt to change the relationship of the military to further subordinate them to the direct rule of capital too quickly would result in the people with the guns saying “no” and enough people in charge understand that. It’s not particularly good or hopeful of a situation but I think it’s interesting and somewhat unique compared to most empires.
|
# ? Feb 27, 2024 08:07 |
|
SMEGMA_MAIL posted:even the generals mostly understand what privatization actually means. yeah, a sweet position on the board of raytheon or as a talking head on TV
|
# ? Feb 27, 2024 10:54 |
|
crepeface posted:yeah, a sweet position on the board of raytheon or as a talking head on TV yeah regulatory capture is a thing and I don't see generals fighting it at all
|
# ? Feb 27, 2024 15:11 |
|
In light of Bills' recent pages long non-grasp of entropy, here's Kwame Ture using it as part of a great criticism of Zionism. Maybe it belongs in the PI thread more, but it was too spot on imo to not share it here. On learning how to think dialectically, Ive found Kwame to be the best teacher frankly, especially as he got okder. His lectures are a masterclass in analysis, hes really good at explicitly using diamat to discuss whatever it is thats asked of him. https://twitter.com/SpiritofLenin/status/1762497354769252749?t=J5Jat6fsiVzIxxbOCDrfZw&s=19 Tsitsikovas has issued a correction as of 16:39 on Feb 27, 2024 |
# ? Feb 27, 2024 16:36 |
|
my friend if there's a video of Kwame Ture talking about his top picks of street food places it is absolutely relevant to this thread, that man is golden
|
# ? Feb 27, 2024 17:14 |
|
The question of whether and how one can recruit American military personnel is putting the cart before the horse. In order to answer it, you'd need to know the conditions in which a revolutionary socialist organization they could join operates. We don't have that, obviously (at least here in the States). Furthermore, it's my suspicion that we won't really know anything useful about those conditions and interactions without there actually being one we can analyze, being that there hasn't been a serious socialist movement in the US in like a century. To my mind the more relevant question is how knowledgeable and committed anti-capitalists can develop and grow a stable and focused party, and whether enough those actually exist to wrangle together.
|
# ? Feb 27, 2024 17:34 |
|
In an interesting coincidence, I just today got to this letter by Bobby Seale from The Black Panthers Speak, that addresses the topic from his perspective (and that of the party). I think it's a good model. I can't find an online version to copy/paste so I've transcribed it (in full and uncensored) below. Bobby Seale posted:Black Soldiers as Revolutionaries to Overthrow the Ruling Class The thing that stands out the most to me is the strong underlying heartbeat of solidarity and empathy and love that resonates through every word. He never loses sight of it (nor do any of the other Panthers), or the humanity of his intended audience (Black US soldiers--but also others, including white soldiers who know what's up). He makes sure to keep the true common enemy in focus at all times. Son of Thunderbeast has issued a correction as of 02:25 on Feb 28, 2024 |
# ? Feb 28, 2024 02:16 |
|
Son of Thunderbeast posted:In an interesting coincidence, I just today got to this letter by Bobby Seale from The Black Panthers Speak, that addresses the topic from his perspective (and that of the party). I think it's a good model. why is it a good model? you like it, cool, but why would it be effective? why would it be now? why wasn't it then?
|
# ? Feb 28, 2024 03:12 |
|
Sharing something you think it’s a cool read can be a discussion catalyst by itself If someone wants to put their analysis/critique/whatever, of course, even better
|
# ? Feb 28, 2024 03:18 |
|
Brain Candy posted:why is it a good model? you like it, cool, but why would it be effective? why would it be now? why wasn't it then? black people are also overrepresented in the military by overall population so its gonna be a smaller # of overall people you have to appeal to to get the same effect bc every military member who switches is -1/+1 stuff like that adds up demographically the most unstable link of the ruling class' power structure, mistake to ignore that imo
|
# ? Feb 28, 2024 03:31 |
|
Son of Thunderbeast posted:In an interesting coincidence, I just today got to this letter by Bobby Seale from The Black Panthers Speak, that addresses the topic from his perspective (and that of the party). I think it's a good model. Really appreciate you transcribing this. I enjoyed reading it. I echo your sentiment - it’s class that divides! Everybody stop, and look what’s going on. Who’s dividing us? When I was serving in Afghanistan I had a moment where I realized that the people I was fighting were more like me than the people who told me to fight. We both felt like we were defending our nations. They literally were. Solidarity!
|
# ? Feb 28, 2024 03:46 |
|
FirstnameLastname posted:black us troops have most reasons to oppose the current system of anyone who's a part of upholding it when that's already a fixed & very valuable pool of people to reach sure this makes some kind of sense, but the didn't work part is important. and this is me going for it, but i think it's exactly because the military is less racist as part of the bonus for doing head stomping. it's janissaries version whatever, an even older trick than that and it's keeps coming up in history, like with the sikhs or the cossacks or &c
|
# ? Feb 28, 2024 04:25 |
|
Brain Candy posted:sure this makes some kind of sense, but the didn't work part is important. i think thats a good point and i don't have a good analysis of why it didn't work. the late 60s-70s is an interesting period because it was the moment of greatest weakness of the west in the cold war, and pretty much the height of the communist bloc in terms of area controlled, power, living standards etc. in the 70s you had inflation and the capitalist profitability crises, strong and organized labour (and especially militant and class conscious in places like the UK), the failure in iran, oil shocks and america's own gulf state protectorates daring to embargo the usa itself, you had the loving church committee and sitting members of congress taking aim at the goddamn CIA, something that would be unthinkable today. post vietnam malaise, and all of that. every single person thought the west was on permanent decline, from reactionaries to libs to socialists. if ever there was a moment in time where you could appeal to disaffected vets, especially disaffected black vets, to take part in some kind of socialist coalition that was probably a good time. and yet there nobody was able to build a communist movement in that period with even the strength of the american communist movement in the 30s, why? what happened? unfortunately the 70s passed and china came and saved the capitalist system by re-guaranteeing profitability with cheaper labour, among other things (the RWN boys see the year 1979 as one of the great turning points in history), but that's another story - why was the 70s moment missed?
|
# ? Feb 28, 2024 05:06 |
|
mila kunis posted:
cia, fbi, nsa the stalling of leftism worldwide has been from the rise of the intelligence state you don't hear about the same inspiring people because before they can become that inspiring they get clipped groups that have potential are filled with feds before they can get off the ground imo they've gotten worse at it than they were because they don't view leftism as a credible threat to anything and the truly ideologically driven anticommunists got old and died but at the same time the conditions haven't gotten bad enough for that base to regrow is all the problem i think and once poo poo declines a lil more yu where it's fully undeniable it'll get a lot more leniny real quick
|
# ? Feb 28, 2024 05:18 |
|
Brain Candy posted:why is it a good model? you like it, cool, but why would it be effective? why would it be now? why wasn't it then? Depends on what you mean by "effective" because that can mean a whole lot of things at a whole lot of scales. Did this letter cause an uprising in the US military? Did it create communism? Of course not, and it would be silly to expect that, or argue that it should have to, to be considered effective. Of course it wouldn't be "effective" in this sense, in any era. Did it sway the hearts and minds of soldiers who may have been harboring doubts or been coming to the same conclusions on their own? Maybe prompt some of them to look into socialism on their own, or look into a local BPP chapter to see how they could help, or otherwise raise consciousness? I guarantee it did. And to me, that's effective. I shared the letter as an example of the type of rhetoric that would be best if one wanted to talk to people in the military for the purposes of propaganda/conversion. In that sense, I say it was effective then, and now.
|
# ? Feb 28, 2024 07:05 |
|
Reread Chapter 1. Douglas Adams covers the flaws in assumptions Marx makes about the existence of a divine far better than I can. Something non-religious type often decry, is that logically, the 3 major "same god" religions are perfectly logical. Apply the same critiques to "proof God is real" logical arguments in reverse. Practically though, that's not useful. I only bring it up for the people citing the infallibility of dialetical materialism. I had studied chapter 1 as a "why it's wrong" before. Rereading, it's really pretty basic stuff. One of the critiques is reducing labor to a function of time for parallel comparison. Had a full day on peasant vs free person labor efficency, which ignores Marx is only simplifying for comparison, I assume a deep dive comes later.
|
# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:11 |
|
BillsPhoenix posted:Had a full day on peasant vs free person labor efficency, which ignores Marx is only simplifying for comparison, I assume a deep dive comes later. a whole day, drat
|
# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:17 |
|
Is crossing someone up anti-revolutionary? (it's real)
|
# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:22 |
|
Being a huge manu ginobili fan, I adore that I get to randomly say "yknow fidel castro basically invented the euro step actually" during bball talk now. Love 2b that guy now.
|
# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:25 |
|
BillsPhoenix posted:Reread Chapter 1. Douglas Adams covers the flaws in assumptions Marx makes about the existence of a divine far better than I can. who gives a poo poo what the dilbert guy thinks?
|
# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:28 |
|
Yeah, it involves the rectangle and triangles (Marx didn't invent that bit). Socialism dictates how much each triangle gets filled, which yields uneven profits. Fitting the uneven triangles back together is a visual of the inefficiency. (G2000s posts havea ton of historical evidence that socialism can and does adjust quantities produced, rendering this argument silly) Communism will fill each triangle until marginal return (profit) goes negative. This is true of a commune, but is a false claim about communism, as communism nations have central planning. Capitalist will maximize profits, allocating perfect labor to each triangle, self correcting to fit the overall rectangle when something is over utilized. Nothing wrong in theory here. There's then math using a 2 commodity market to prove it out, but that disregards the inaccurate claims about communism and socialism.
|
# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:38 |
|
what in the
|
# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:40 |
|
what
|
# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:41 |
|
BillsPhoenix posted:Yeah, it involves the rectangle and triangles (Marx didn't invent that bit). Please gently caress off forever, moron
|
# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:42 |
|
BillsPhoenix posted:Yeah, it involves the rectangle and triangles (Marx didn't invent that bit).
|
# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:43 |
.
|
|
# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:46 |
|
BillsPhoenix posted:Reread Chapter 1. Douglas Adams covers the flaws in assumptions Marx makes about the existence of a divine far better than I can. How are you this goddamn unhinged? Reread chapter 1 of what? Who the gently caress is Douglas Adams and how is he pertinent to chapter one? What flaws in what assumptions? You're not saying a goddamn thing just typing words.
|
# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:50 |
|
updated my chart to include rectangles and triangles along with spheres
|
# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:52 |
|
[Marxism] It involves the rectangle and triangles
|
# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:52 |
|
|
# ? May 27, 2024 02:17 |
|
Lmao a thread full of philoshers can't identify Douglas Adams. I guess I will gently caress off, I over estimated everyone. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
# ? Feb 28, 2024 22:52 |