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I'm actually wondering if Sephiroth is going to try to convince Cloud he killed Aerith or something like that, as part of the "finish completely breaking Cloud's mind" bit at the Northern Crater
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Mar 5, 2024 21:35
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Generally speaking imagine the worst possible thing that could happen to Cloud, and that'll be what happens. Like mentally he's 16, and he spent most of his formative teenage years as a child soldier. He is hilariously ill-equipped to deal with the world, just on principle. Then there is the brutal slaughter of nearly his entire hometown by one of his heroes, who he killed. Then there was the torturous experimentation that subjected him to tons of Mako and alien genetic material. Then he was put on ice for the better part of 5 years. The only reason he is even standing up and functioning is basically deleting his entire personality and replacing it with someone else's, and also some alien force ghost actively forcing him forward. He is ridiculously broken on every conceivable level, and it's hilarious he keeps beating the living poo poo out of Sephiroth in every single encounter they have. I would not trust Cloud to put pants on without exploding, but give him a giant sword and point him at that giant loser twink and he will obliterate him.
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Mar 5, 2024 21:46
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Mulva posted:Generally speaking imagine the worst possible thing that could happen to Cloud, and that'll be what happens. Like mentally he's 16, and he spent most of his formative teenage years as a child soldier. He is hilariously ill-equipped to deal with the world, just on principle. Then there is the brutal slaughter of nearly his entire hometown by one of his heroes, who he killed. Then there was the torturous experimentation that subjected him to tons of Mako and alien genetic material. Then he was put on ice for the better part of 5 years. The only reason he is even standing up and functioning is basically deleting his entire personality and replacing it with someone else's, and also some alien force ghost actively forcing him forward. Like the longer this goes on, the more ridiculous it is that he completely washed out of SOLDIER, because on paper he's like the ideal candidate for their ranks: a void of a person who can be moulded in any authority figure's image and able to berserker the poo poo out of basically anything if given a sufficiently large enough sword to swing around and with near zero training. Like maybe he just really cocked up the entrance interview or insulted someone's mother and got rejected on a vindictive technicality or something.
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Mar 5, 2024 21:54
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Didn't he just fail the "we're going to stick you full of mako and see if you go crazy test"? Unsurprisingly, since it turns out that being stuck full of mako causes him to go crazy?
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Mar 5, 2024 21:56
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nine-gear crow posted:Like the longer this goes on, the more ridiculous it is that he completely washed out of SOLDIER, because on paper he's like the ideal candidate for their ranks: a void of a person who can be moulded in any authority figure's image and able to berserker the poo poo out of basically anything if given a sufficiently large enough sword to swing around and with near zero training. Like maybe he just really cocked up the entrance interview or insulted someone's mother and got rejected on a vindictive technicality or something. The Cloud we see prior to Nibelheim isn't really a void of a person, he's just kind of softspoken and dorky and lacking in confidence. All of which makes him an absolutely terrible candidate for SOLDIER which involves dunking yourself in pure Mako and somehow keeping your brain together afterwards. We do see him go absolutely hog wild on Sephiroth but that comes at the end of "Sephiroth murdered every single person he knew and stabbed him through the stomach" which isn't really repeatable. In comparison the (named) soldiers we know are all either extremely together to an absurd degree (Zack, Angeal, Glenn) or absolutely batshit insane. (Roche, Genesis)
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Mar 5, 2024 21:59
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Roche ruled, I hope he comes back.
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Mar 5, 2024 22:14
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Azubah posted:Roche ruled, I hope he comes back. I am sure we'll see his broken shambling living corpse crawling along the Northern Crater.
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Mar 5, 2024 22:15
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Not like that!
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Mar 5, 2024 22:19
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The man left his motorcycle behind. When he did that he was already dead.
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Mar 5, 2024 22:22
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ImpAtom posted:The man left his motorcycle behind. When he did that he was already dead. Yup the guy was already going white hair like all the other less interesting losers that Zack liked in Crisis Core and eventually had to fight. Roche was just too interesting to keep on living, him coming back as some kind of boss merely to just be possessed by Sephiroth to taunt Cloud makes his end all the more hosed up and tragic. Also is did Wedge die in the Remake timeline??? I was very confused seeing him as a happy ghost. Jiro fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Mar 6, 2024 |
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Mar 6, 2024 01:21
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ImpAtom posted:I am sure we'll see his broken shambling living corpse crawling along the Northern Crater. Everyone else at the Northern Crater is vacantly muttering "Reunion". Roche is screaming it with all of his soul.
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Mar 6, 2024 02:23
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Two times during the Gold Saucer I feel the game was directly looking at the player. The first being when Sephiroth himself shows up and tells Cloud to just enjoy the Saucer (For now) and the other was the Cait Sith fortune "Things are looking up so throw caution to the wind. Put your trust in others and a last-minute twist may pleasantly surprise you."
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Mar 6, 2024 03:29
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Jiro posted:Yup the guy was already going white hair like all the other less interesting losers that Zack liked in Crisis Core and eventually had to fight. Roche was just too interesting to keep on living, him coming back as some kind of boss merely to just be possessed by Sephiroth to taunt Cloud makes his end all the more hosed up and tragic. Didn't you do the Protorelic Quest? You see what happened. He made a pavement pancake
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Mar 6, 2024 03:38
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But what about his caaaaaaaats? 
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Mar 6, 2024 03:57
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Jiro posted:Also is did Wedge die in the Remake timeline??? I was very confused seeing him as a happy ghost. I think yes he does just die, we see the outcome of all the choices Zack could make and only one leads to Zack helping out.
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Mar 6, 2024 04:28
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I appreciate that the party goes absolutely full throttle into Jenova: Lifeclinger. I like that they are explicitly and unambiguously fighting to kill her rather than the more humane aggression they give most other monsters and fights.
Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Mar 6, 2024 |
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Mar 6, 2024 04:46
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In part III, I really want to see impaled Cloud grabbing the Masamune and swinging Sephiroth in the Mako + Sephiroth's reaction.
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Mar 6, 2024 19:00
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Pennfalath posted:In part III, I really want to see impaled Cloud grabbing the Masamune and swinging Sephiroth in the Mako + Sephiroth's reaction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW7zzfcFL2I&t=1414s Good news! You can see it already in Reunion.
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Mar 6, 2024 19:15
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I wonder if they're going to try to address why Sephiroth didn't just let go of the sword
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Mar 6, 2024 19:32
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Dude wasn't in his right mind, crazy doesn't do what's expected. Also the weird mist over woulds in a weird choice. I don't think the PSP version did that.
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Mar 6, 2024 19:37
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Harrow posted:I wonder if they're going to try to address why Sephiroth didn't just let go of the sword Cloud was still in the middle of his attack animation.
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Mar 6, 2024 19:37
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Harrow posted:I wonder if they're going to try to address why Sephiroth didn't just let go of the sword Cloud just stabbed him through the back with a sword bigger than his torso and he was caught completely off guard by Cloud doing this poo poo.It was a "No! No, this is IMPOSSIBLE" moment.
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Mar 6, 2024 19:46
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I know, I'm just being a stinkerRand Brittain posted:Cloud was still in the middle of his attack animation. This is canon though
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Mar 6, 2024 19:47
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ImpAtom posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW7zzfcFL2I&t=1414s True! Be interesting to see what (if anything) they'll change.
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Mar 6, 2024 20:01
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Pennfalath posted:True! Be interesting to see what (if anything) they'll change. I expect it to be pretty similar to be honest. Crisis Core and Rebirth match up relatively closely aside from the obvious gameplay shifts and they even go out of their way to make justification for why Cloud misses things that were in CC. (Off turning a valve!) I suspect if anything we'll either get more Zack or some explanation for the weirdness with Tifa involving the Shinra chopper.
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Mar 6, 2024 20:21
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So if we really ARE going into the Multiverse of Madness with Part 3, what are the odds one of the worlds that glitches in and out of the main Rebirth timeline is a world where Sephiroth never went evil so they can justify another playable Sephiroth segment or battle and/or a Sephiroth vs. Sephiroth set piece. Because if they're just gonna do self-indulgent weird poo poo now (see Zack and Cloud vs. Sephiroth), then that would be one of my go tos right off the bat.
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Mar 6, 2024 20:33
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nine-gear crow posted:So if we really ARE going into the Multiverse of Madness with Part 3, what are the odds one of the worlds that glitches in and out of the main Rebirth timeline is a world where Sephiroth never went evil so they can justify another playable Sephiroth segment or battle and/or a Sephiroth vs. Sephiroth set piece. Because if they're just gonna do self-indulgent weird poo poo now (see Zack and Cloud vs. Sephiroth), then that would be one of my go tos right off the bat. I honestly don't think that's going to happen at all. The multiverse stuff all collapsed pretty firmly at the end of Rebirth with the exception of Zack being Somewhere. If it was their plan or not Rebirth seems to have pretty comfortably set the status quo for Part 3 to "It will be pretty much as expected but at some point Zack will get involved." I'm not sure if it was what they intended all along or if the backlash to Remake scared them but Rebirth is a lot of resetting to the status quo if you look for it aside from Glenn (Lod)Beck
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Mar 6, 2024 21:00
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ImpAtom posted:I honestly don't think that's going to happen at all. The multiverse stuff all collapsed pretty firmly at the end of Rebirth with the exception of Zack being Somewhere. If it was their plan or not Rebirth seems to have pretty comfortably set the status quo for Part 3 to "It will be pretty much as expected but at some point Zack will get involved." I'm not sure if it was what they intended all along or if the backlash to Remake scared them but Rebirth is a lot of resetting to the status quo if you look for it aside from Glenn (Lod)Beck And Tseng
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Mar 6, 2024 21:03
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Pennfalath posted:And Tseng Tseng never died in FF7. It was a mistranslation that was fixed in the original English PC release and has been fixed ever since.
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Mar 6, 2024 21:09
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ImpAtom posted:I honestly don't think that's going to happen at all. The multiverse stuff all collapsed pretty firmly at the end of Rebirth with the exception of Zack being Somewhere. If it was their plan or not Rebirth seems to have pretty comfortably set the status quo for Part 3 to "It will be pretty much as expected but at some point Zack will get involved." I'm not sure if it was what they intended all along or if the backlash to Remake scared them but Rebirth is a lot of resetting to the status quo if you look for it aside from Glenn (Lod)Beck I'm not so sure of that. Aerith pointed out Sephiroth isn't done or giving up. And yeah as pointed out, Zack. Just the immediate threat has passed. Cloud might be going crazy but I think he did save Aerith in one timeline branch, and that's why he can see her. Nanaki noticing her touching him shows she's not just a complete delusion either.
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Mar 6, 2024 21:10
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Nelson Mandingo posted:I'm not so sure of that. Aerith pointed out Sephiroth isn't done or giving up. I don't think there's anything implying that. Cloud's visions are all connected to his brain messing up. At the very end it does appear to legitimately be Aerith's ghost there but Cloud doesn't seem to grasp that is what he's seeing. She basically ends it by sadly saying "Goodbye" as the crew flies away.
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Mar 6, 2024 21:13
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ImpAtom posted:Tseng never died in FF7. It was a mistranslation that was fixed in the original English PC release and has been fixed ever since. it's still very weird that he gets an obvious death scene halfway through the game and then never shows up again like, why isn't he dead? he's a minor antagonist that they were clearly not planning to use again whose last appearance is him slumped against the wall in a building that implodes about 15 minutes later. why confirm that he's not dead in one throwaway line of dialogue and then never mention him again?
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Mar 6, 2024 21:15
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cock hero flux posted:it's still very weird that he gets an obvious death scene halfway through the game and then never shows up again I imagine at some point in the script that was intended as his death, then they undid that for whatever reason. FF7 has a lot of weird writing stuff like that which the remake appears to be using the chance to clean up. It's absolutely one of those things where I don't blame the translator because it's one loving line for a character who never shows up again and it only became relevant when Tseng showed up in Advent Children and people were convinced it was a huge retcon. (Funnily enough, the person I most associate with whining about the 'retcon' is TheDarkId.) ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Mar 6, 2024 |
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Mar 6, 2024 21:18
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Azubah posted:Roche ruled, I hope he comes back. Can we all talk for a second how a bunch of random blackrobes shuffle in after his last fight and ROBE him in like two seconds flat? There's a lot of funny poo poo in this game but I'm not sure getting glam-mobbed by dying zombie goths had the kind of tone the devs were originally aiming for in the script. Hiveminded fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Mar 6, 2024 |
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Mar 6, 2024 21:25
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ImpAtom posted:I don't think there's anything implying that. Cloud's visions are all connected to his brain messing up. Tifa explicitly saw the distortions while she was running up to Aerith. It even gave her a reaction shot. So that's why I think it's not just Cloud being completely delusional with his pre-lifestream brain problems. Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Mar 6, 2024 |
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Mar 6, 2024 21:29
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I remember the Turks showing up in AC and Rufus being alive, but I can't remember Tseng. Time to watch AC again, I guess.
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Mar 6, 2024 21:33
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Nelson Mandingo posted:Tifa explicitly saw the distortions while she was running up to Aerith. It even gave her a reaction shot. So that's why I think it's not just Cloud being completely delusional with his pre-lifestream brain problems. It's the opposite of that, it's showing us that Tifa isn't seeing what Cloud is seeing. Cloud sees Aerith smile up at him and raise her hand to his cheek. Tifa gets there and sees Aerith bleeding out and a bloody mark on her wrist, implying Cloud lifting her hand there. She looks horrified because she is seeing Cloud cradling her friend's dead bloody body. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Mar 6, 2024 |
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Mar 6, 2024 21:36
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Pennfalath posted:I remember the Turks showing up in AC and Rufus being alive, but I can't remember Tseng. Time to watch AC again, I guess. Tseng's presence in Advent Children is comically minimal. Rufus sends them to the Northern Crater to investigate rumours of strange goings on and recover whatever there is left of Jenova to be found and they get the poo poo kicked out of them by Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo. Then they show up in Act 3 to save Rufus when his stunt to throw off/kill Kadaj backfires. They're then seen all together with Reno, Rude and Rufus in the denouement when Aerith heals everyone's Geostigma with Great Gospel. Advent Children Complete gives Elena a tiny bit more to do with an additional scene in the highway chase sequence, but Tseng is still just kind of a bit player. I don't think he gets more than three lines in the movie. They wanted to really push Reno and Rude is a comedy duo, so that meant Tseng and Elena got pushed to the sidelines.
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Mar 6, 2024 22:00
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ImpAtom posted:It's the opposite of that, it's showing us that Tifa isn't seeing what Cloud is seeing. That definitely checks out and aligns better.
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Mar 6, 2024 22:02
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nine-gear crow posted:Tseng's presence in Advent Children is comically minimal. Rufus sends them to the Northern Crater to investigate rumours of strange goings on and recover whatever there is left of Jenova to be found and they get the poo poo kicked out of them by Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo. Then they show up in Act 3 to save Rufus when his stunt to throw off/kill Kadaj backfires. They're then seen all together with Reno, Rude and Rufus in the denouement when Aerith heals everyone's Geostigma with Great Gospel. Tseng is weird in that he's got a massively outsized backstory presence. He's known Aerith for years and was basically responsible for guarding her and in general was the most important Turk to her, but they barely interaction. (The original also implies he had a thing for her but Crisis Core wisely retcons that to 'he is watching over her for Zack' because Tseng is 31 and that's creepy as poo poo. Same way they seem to have redone Tseng and Elena's relationship as Teacher and Mentee instead of him hitting on her.) And obviously he's got a bigger presence in Before Crisis/Crisis Core where he's a big deal. But in FF7 itself he's in like 4 scenes, gets chumped, then is in AC where he get chumped again.
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Mar 6, 2024 22:05
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