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i've heard those deer are vicious if you don't have a steady supply of deer treats
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Mar 7, 2024 22:51
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Yeah the Nara deer are pigeons basically. Bringing things back to the topic at hand, pigeon feed is also Biden’s humanitarian strategy.
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Mar 7, 2024 23:11
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cat botherer posted:If that happens, both the Biden administration and the Israelis will chalk it up to a whoopsie-daisy like they did with the USS Liberty incident. idk, the USS Liberty incident was just one ship in a long line of U.S. naval intelligence assets getting attacked in possibly neutral waters that resulted in diplomatic instead of open warfare. The USS Pueblo got captured by North Korea a year later: the crew was tortured, with the captain subject to mock executions, and a sailor died in captivity before the U.S. State Department issued an apology, which contributed to LBJ withdrawing from the '68 election. Then we had the Hainan incident in 2001, where a P-5 Orion surveillance aircraft collided with a Chinese interceptor, killing the Chinese pilot and resulting in the Orion aircrew bailing out and getting captured by the Chinese, who were released following a "not-apology" apology from the Bush administration. A big difference in these and the Liberty is the Israelis admitted to their mistake, made a formal apology and provided restitution to the sailors and families of those killed, which is why no one really talks about it. I do think if the Israelis attacked a U.S.-led humanitarian operation would end up differently than a "oops, my bad" apology, especially with a good portion of the American population already fired up due to the Gaza genocide. What would more likely happen is Israel would blame American deaths on Hamas while adding salt to the wound that the U.S. shouldn't have butted in and the media would play along with "Hamas F-16s In False Flag Livery Bomb US Navy Sailors With Stolen American Bombs!" It's also likely the pier is bullshit, too, since an incident between American military and the Israelis would be disastrous to Biden and make him appear weak.
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Mar 7, 2024 23:17
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Esran posted:Making a temporary port to access territory you're being kept out of by a nominal ally you're currently both funding and arming, because you can't be bothered to tell that ally to let you cross the border, or the money faucet turns off. There were posts in this thread about Israelis bringing their kids to protest and block aid trucks. Bringing in ships and simply going around that nonsense seems like a path that is far more likely to be successful than trying to get through protestors in the ground and an Israeli government that agrees with those protestors, and is actually an option that could bring in significant amounts of aid, unlike air drops which are a feel good measure. A ship can carry *far* more than a plane can. We'll see.
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Mar 8, 2024 02:50
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:i've heard those deer are vicious if you don't have a steady supply of deer treats I took a newspaper from a deer in Miyajima and it started eating a motorcycle seat.
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Mar 8, 2024 02:55
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https://www.un.org/sexualviolencein...CRSV-report.pdf "1. Findings on CRSV during the 7 October attacks and its aftermath Nova Music Festival and surrounding areas 57. The Nova music festival, an outdoor event in an open field about 5 km from the Gaza perimeter fence, attracted around 3,500 attendees, mainly young individuals. Information reviewed by the mission team indicates that the festival was a site of grave violations including brutal mass murders, with several hundreds of bodies recovered from the site in addition to many abductions. Bodies were also found with extensive burn damage. 58. Based on the examination of available information, including credible statements by eyewitnesses, there are reasonable grounds to believe that multiple incidents of rape, including gang rape, occurred in and around the Nova festival site during the 7 October attacks. Credible information was obtained regarding multiple incidents whereby victims were subjected to rape and then killed. There are further accounts of individuals who witnessed at least two incidents of rape of corpses of women. Other credible sources at the Nova music festival site described seeing multiple murdered individuals, mostly women, whose bodies were found naked from the waist down, some totally naked, with some gunshots in the head and/or tied including with their hands bound behind their backs and tied to structures such as trees or poles." "Road 232 and Other “Escape Routes 59. Faced with the attacks, Nova music festival goers and other residents reportedly fled along various escape routes including Road 232 and the surrounding fields. Along Road 232, numerous bodies with severe injuries such as multiple gunshot wounds and destructive burn damage were found, including in and around damaged or burned vehicles, as well as piled in several bomb shelters. 60. There are reasonable grounds to believe that sexual violence occurred on and around Road 232. Credible information based on corroborating witness accounts describes an incident involving the rape of two women. The mission team received other accounts of rape, including gang rape, which could not be verified during the time provided and would require further investigation. Along this road, several bodies were found with genital injuries, along with injuries to other body parts. Discernible patterns of genital mutilation could not be verified at this time but warrant future investigation. Many bodies along Road 232 also suffered destructive burn damage and conclusions as to conflict-related sexual violence (including genital mutilation) related to these incidents could not be drawn. The mission team was also able to ascertain that multiple bodies of women and a few men were found totally or partially naked or with their clothes torn, including some bound and/or attached to structures, which – though circumstantial – may be indicative of some forms of sexual violence." "Kibbutz Re’im 61. Nova music festival goers also attempted to escape to the south and sought shelter in and around kibbutz Re’im, about 2 km southwest of the Nova music festival site. There are reasonable grounds to believe that sexual violence occurred in kibbutz Re’im, including rape. This included the rape of a woman outside of a bomb shelter at the entrance of kibbutz Re’im, which was corroborated by witness testimonies and digital material. Within the kibbutz itself, in one area close to the entrance, the bodies of at least two women were found inside a home, on the floor and naked, with gunshot wounds to their heads. Witness testimony gathered for this area is consistent with possible sexual violence, however, these could not be verified in the time provided and would require further investigation." "Kibbutz Kfar Aza 68. During the attacks on kibbutz Kfar Aza, located about three kilometers from the Gaza perimeter fence, approximately 50 residents out of its population of around 700 were killed, when hundreds of militants entered the kibbutz, armed with military grade weaponry. Most killings were reported to have occurred in the 12 hours before the IDF were deployed to the area. Dozens of houses were burned. Fighting between militants and IDF forces in and around the kibbutz was reported to have ended only on 10 October, complicating the recovery of bodies. The mission team collected information from first responders who reported discovering bodies of women naked with their hands tied behind their backs and gunshot wounds to the head. While verification of sexual violence against these victims was not possible at this point, available circumstantial information – notably the recurring pattern of female victims found undressed, bound, and shot – indicates that sexual violence, including potential sexualized torture, or cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment, may have occurred." "2. Sexual Violence Against Hostages Taken to Gaza 71. The mission team reviewed incidents of alleged sexual violence related to hostages in Gaza. Based on the first-hand accounts of released hostages, the mission team received clear and convincing information that sexual violence, including rape, sexualized torture, and cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment occurred against some women and children during their time in captivity and has reasonable grounds to believe that this violence may be ongoing. 72. Based on first-hand accounts of released hostages there are reasonable grounds to believe that female hostages were also subjected to other forms of sexual violence." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCVacN0tMdQ (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 8, 2024 03:53
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Esran posted:It's as likely to happen as that ceasefire deal he touted a few weeks ago, that neither Israel nor Hamas knew about. As a reminder, Hamas was actually engaged in ceasefire talks shortly after they claimed they knew nothing about it: https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-03-05-2024-a13c5fa6e23fedbda42e3028a96ca14e Granted, it ended up falling through. But being that soon after Biden talked about ceasefire claims means that 1) Biden was bluffing and Hamas decided to engage in ceasefire talks because of it, 2) Biden was correct and Israel/Hamas claimed they weren’t engaged in ceasefire talks to downplay US influence, or 3) there is no correlation and it was 100% coincidence Assuming the 3) option I listed is extremely unlikely, which IMO it is, it seems like Biden at least had a slightly positive influence. Even if it resulted in no different outcome Kalit fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Mar 8, 2024 |
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Mar 8, 2024 04:36
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quote:As a result of the aforementioned challenges, it must be noted that the information quote:The mission team examined several allegations of sexual violence. It must be noted that quote:The digital evidence discovered during independent open-source review appeared Oh word?
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Mar 8, 2024 04:58
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8. The mission team also faced specific challenges in gathering and verifying information on the occurrence of conflict-related sexual violence. The main challenge was the limited number of and access to survivors/victims of sexual violence, and to survivors and witnesses of the 7 October attacks. While the mission team was able to meet with some released hostages as well as with some survivors and witnesses of the attacks, it did not meet with any survivor/victim of sexual violence from 7 October despite concerted efforts encouraging them to come forward. Probably want some primary sources and not just secondhand information from people who need narratives of exceptional barbarism to justify their ongoing genocide. And of course, even if there were literally hundreds of acts of sexual violence on 10/7, it wouldnt justify the killing tens of thousands of children, so this seems like at best a pointless distraction from the actual issue at hand and at worst a smokescreen thrown up to support an ongoing event of ethnic cleansing.
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Mar 8, 2024 05:01
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Oh, good, you're back. To repeat my question that you ignored last week along with your quote for context: Illmade posted:By the way, y'all's obsession with denying the possibility that even a single member of Hamas may have committed rape is really loving weird. As if the mass slaughter of 1200 civilians wasn't enough to justify Hamas's total obliteration. Should the IDF and the coalition government in charge of Israel also be obliterated?
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Mar 8, 2024 05:04
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HerraS posted:Oh word? I always liked the take from the film "In the loop" - a lie is printed, then used to justify war, then when proof is demanded it goes round and around until at the last moment, the original claim is provided as proof. Politics/wolf howl baby
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Mar 8, 2024 13:33
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Randalor posted:Should the IDF and the coalition government in charge of Israel also be obliterated? Yes.
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Mar 8, 2024 14:11
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Kalit posted:As a reminder, Hamas was actually engaged in ceasefire talks shortly after they claimed they knew nothing about it: https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-03-05-2024-a13c5fa6e23fedbda42e3028a96ca14e He had a photo op where he lied about the status while eating ice cream as Gazans continued to starve.
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Mar 8, 2024 14:16
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Nucleic Acids posted:He had a photo op where he lied about the status while eating ice cream as Gazans continued to starve. If he was lying about it, what convinced Hamas to soon after coincidentally [briefly] enter into negotiations of a ceasefire? Kalit fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Mar 8, 2024 |
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Mar 8, 2024 14:20
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Esran posted:Making a temporary port to access territory you're being kept out of by a nominal ally you're currently both funding and arming, because you can't be bothered to tell that ally to let you cross the border, or the money faucet turns off. I'm convinced that we're literally being the Israeli government's peons here and setting up infrastructure to help them access the oil reserves off of Gaza.
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Mar 8, 2024 15:09
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DeadlyMuffin posted:There were posts in this thread about Israelis bringing their kids to protest and block aid trucks. I mean, I would suggest cutting off all aid to Israel until they drop the blockade and stop genociding would be a pretty successful path also. But they could do both.
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Mar 8, 2024 15:21
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Kalit posted:If he was lying about it, what convinced Hamas to soon after coincidentally [briefly] enter into negotiations of a ceasefire? The lie wasn't that negotiations were happening, it was that they were remotely close to a resolution. Didn't he claim it'd all be in place by Monday past?
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Mar 8, 2024 15:21
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forkboy84 posted:The lie wasn't that negotiations were happening, it was that they were remotely close to a resolution. Didn't he claim it'd all be in place by Monday past? https://www.nbcnews.com/now/video/biden-says-he-hopes-to-have-israel-hamas-ceasefire-by-next-monday-204967493747 That is what he said.
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Mar 8, 2024 16:14
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forkboy84 posted:The lie wasn't that negotiations were happening, it was that they were remotely close to a resolution. Didn't he claim it'd all be in place by Monday past? Exactly. He specifically said that "We're close" and he was hoping for a deal by "next Monday". He was lying. Neither Hamas nor Israel felt they were close to a deal, and both repudiated Biden's claim directly.
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Mar 8, 2024 16:20
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Esran posted:Exactly. He specifically said that "We're close" and he was hoping for a deal by "next Monday". So... if you say a deal is close to getting done and you hope to have it done soon (and it's what you genuinely believed in the moment), and it ends up falling through, then it means you were lying? I guess if that's your opinion, it is what it is. But that's wild to me and I bet to most people too.
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Mar 8, 2024 16:28
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Kalit posted:If he was lying about it, what convinced Hamas to soon after coincidentally [briefly] enter into negotiations of a ceasefire? Instead of (just) asking questions like this you could just ask "was he lying?" instead of following up with a scenario that you are inserting on top of that. It's a pretty leading question. Here are some cases: Biden was not lying. Hamas was close to a ceasfire and had coordinated this with Biden.* Biden was lying. Hamas independently wanted to finalize a ceasefire anyways.* In other words, Hamas' actions could be independent of Biden's actions. The way you asked your leading question you gave a conclusion you made yourself (with no evidence) and invited others to disprove your claim without providing evidence initially yourself. You could also instead look up if he was lying yourself before coming to a conclusion. That would take a little effort on your part, I know, and just posting a question with your own conclusion to debunk is easier. If you had just asked "was he lying" I'm sure that others would be happy to provide the evidence. As for my asterisks above, someone else describes this: Esran posted:Exactly. He specifically said that "We're close" and he was hoping for a deal by "next Monday". edit: Kalit posted:So... if you say a deal is close to getting done and you hope to have it done soon (and it's what you genuinely believed in the moment), and it ends up falling through, then it means you were lying? More logic pretzels. The reason he was lying was both of the other parties said this wasn't happening at all. You're jumping on others for "making up a conclusion with no evidence" but you are doing exactly that. Instead of making everything you want to state a question you could instead state your position. You could say "Biden was not lying by evidence of _______" (and I mean actual evidence, not "a likely scenario" etc.) and then others could respond to a specific position that you personally hold (and are brave enough to state). Further with the evidenced position thing, if you looked it up you would have found no evidence. And what you were responding to just now was "both Hamas and Israel said it wasn't true." And after reading that you somehow are trying to find ways to explain how possibly, maybe Biden was telling the truth when the other parties involved already weighed in. If you have more information than Hamas and Israel on the topic I am all ears. The Sean fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Mar 8, 2024 |
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Mar 8, 2024 16:33
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Kalit posted:So... if you say a deal is close to getting done and you hope to have it done soon (and it's what you genuinely believed in the moment), and it ends up falling through, then it means you were lying? Sure, I guess you can just make up some secret negotiations that happened and fell through, which both Hamas and Israel didn't mention, and assume Joe Biden has a heart of gold and cannot tell a lie, and everything's gravy. Christ. When Trump said he could shoot someone and wouldn't lose voters, this is the kind of blind loyalty he was talking about.
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Mar 8, 2024 16:43
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The US has managed to kill at least two Gazan Palestinians (have seen estimates of five or more) by dropping aid on them https://x.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1766092428686016549?s=20 The refusal to put some mild pressure on Israel to hold aid in isn't just passively costing lives but US incompetence in the workaround is actively killing Palestinians. In a few days of PR airdrops the US has managed to kill more Palestinians than Yemen has killed anybody in its blockade of Bab al-Mandab.
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Mar 8, 2024 16:47
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Esran posted:Exactly. He specifically said that "We're close" and he was hoping for a deal by "next Monday". And we can't forget the context in which he said it: eating ice cream with Seth Meyers right before a primary
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Mar 8, 2024 16:52
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Hong XiuQuan posted:The US has managed to kill at least two Gazan Palestinians (have seen estimates of five or more) by dropping aid on them Christ its such a loving shitshow, of course this would be the result of the Biden's administrations completely, ridiculously self contradictory policies regarding Israel and Palestine. I've read that airdropped aid even disregarding managing to accidentally kill people with it is just a glorified publicity stunt and it can't be delivered in enough quantities to genuinely make much of a difference.
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Mar 8, 2024 16:54
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Kalit posted:As a reminder, Hamas was actually engaged in ceasefire talks shortly after they claimed they knew nothing about it: https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-03-05-2024-a13c5fa6e23fedbda42e3028a96ca14e The post you quoted can not in any way be interpreted as "Hamas was not engaged in ceasefire talks". Let me explain this to you more simply since you don't seem to understand what happened or what that poster said (not to mention the ongoing derail based entirely on fantasy). Joe Biden (in the lead up to an election, which those with even the slightest media literacy would recognize as a massive red flag) claimed there was a ceasefire deal on the table that was likely to be finished that weekend. This phrasing entails specificity, an explicitly unique agreement apparently on the edge of completion. Hamas and Israel both openly said they had no clue what deal he was talking about, because there was no specific deal on the table. He obviously and clearly lied. Hamas has, for weeks if not months (what is time anymore), repeatedly stated their ceasefire terms "Israeli forces must leave, aid must be allowed to enter, we will never back down on these points." which Israel automatically refuses, and which your source even includes. Please provide evidence of a deal that could come to fruition from these parameters (which again, are given in the source you provided). And then Israel and the US constantly lie about how they're making progress and blame Hamas for not simply accepting the terms they've put out publicly, summarized as "surrender so that we can conclude the extermination". Kalit posted:Granted, it ended up falling through. Kalit posted:But being that soon after Biden talked about ceasefire claims means that 1) Biden was bluffing and Hamas decided to engage in ceasefire talks because of it, 2) Biden was correct and Israel/Hamas claimed they weren’t engaged in ceasefire talks to downplay US influence Kalit posted:or 3) there is no correlation and it was 100% coincidence
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Mar 8, 2024 16:55
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khwarezm posted:
The Allied forces defeated the Berlin Blockade after WW2 and humiliated the Soviets, but that was a year-long concerted effort from multiple countries just emerged from full wartime production. Plus, they were t simultaneously funding the USSR
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Mar 8, 2024 16:59
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Esran posted:Sure, I guess you can just make up some secret negotiations that happened and fell through, which both Hamas and Israel didn't mention, and assume Joe Biden has a heart of gold and cannot tell a lie, and everything's gravy. You don't have to make anything up. The poster you're responding to posted this: https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-03-05-2024-a13c5fa6e23fedbda42e3028a96ca14e So Biden says a deal is eminent, and a week later Egypt says a ceasefire deal fell through. Do you think Egypt is lying too?
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Mar 8, 2024 17:00
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even if biden was not lying about the ceasefire deal, everyone supposedly involved saying that he was makes him look ridiculously weak. it's pretty catastrophically bad no matter what the situation is, especially since people continue to die
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Mar 8, 2024 17:06
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Failed Imagineer posted:The Allied forces defeated the Berlin Blockade after WW2 and humiliated the Soviets, but that was a year-long concerted effort from multiple countries just emerged from full wartime production. Plus, they were t simultaneously funding the USSR That involved landing cargo planes at an airport, not scattering pallets of expired chicken like dandelion seeds.
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Mar 8, 2024 17:12
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Failed Imagineer posted:The Allied forces defeated the Berlin Blockade after WW2 and humiliated the Soviets, but that was a year-long concerted effort from multiple countries just emerged from full wartime production. Plus, they were t simultaneously funding the USSR Berlin saw huge cargo plans being landed in major airports day in day out to get enough supplies to feed the population, its absolutely not comparable to parachuting a bunch of boxes that will have a much lower quantity of supplies, and also hoping they don't land in the sea, on the wrong side of the border, or on someone's head.
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Mar 8, 2024 17:16
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Also, the militaries of the Western Allies hadn't been hollowed out by decades of neoliberal rot when the Airlift was done.
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Mar 8, 2024 17:22
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Esran posted:Sure, I guess you can just make up some secret negotiations that happened and fell through, which both Hamas and Israel didn't mention, and assume Joe Biden has a heart of gold and cannot tell a lie, and everything's gravy. Yeah, and that was one person compared to the tens of thousands that Biden is responsible for.
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Mar 8, 2024 17:27
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DeadlyMuffin posted:You don't have to make anything up. The poster you're responding to posted this: Let's see what that article actually says quote:Three days of negotiations with Hamas over a cease-fire in Gaza and the release of Israeli hostages failed to achieve a breakthrough Tuesday (edit: This would have been March 5th, one week after Biden's comment) I don't know about you, but this doesn't really say "A deal was imminent" to me. In fact this says "They're in the same deadlock they've been for months". Maybe a deal was imminent when Biden made his remark, and things just went sideways later? Here's what Israel and Hamas officials had to say on the day Biden made that comment. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/27/hamas-and-israel-pour-cold-water-on-bidens-hopes-of-imminent-ceasefire posted:The US leader’s remarks late on Monday that a temporary truce could be implemented as soon as 4 March were “premature” and did “not match the reality on the ground”, he said. Ahmad Abdel-Hadi, a Hamas representative in Beirut, also told a Lebanese broadcaster that significant progress on a deal had not been made. If you can read this and still conclude that Biden might have genuinely believed that a deal was right around the corner, then I don't know what to tell you. Sorry your president is incompetent, I guess? Edit: Also what an incredibly happy coincidence that this misreading of the situation falls on the day of a primary. Sometimes things just work out I guess. Esran fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Mar 8, 2024 |
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Mar 8, 2024 17:30
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khwarezm posted:Berlin saw huge cargo plans being landed in major airports day in day out to get enough supplies to feed the population, its absolutely not comparable to parachuting a bunch of boxes that will have a much lower quantity of supplies, and also hoping they don't land in the sea, on the wrong side of the border, or on someone's head. Yeah fair enough. My point anyway was that it wasn't comparable
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Mar 8, 2024 17:50
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Esran posted:Let's see what that article actually says Why would Biden care about a primary that he was already going to win? If it was right before the general election, you'd have a point about the timing.
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Mar 8, 2024 17:52
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Kalit posted:Why would Biden care about a primary that he was already going to win? If it was right before the general election, you'd have a point about the timing. No, we are not smoothly moving on from the main thrust of what we were just talking about, so you can nitpick whichever detail in the argument seems easiest to challenge, and ask questions that aren't really questions, but are actually assertions you want others to disprove. Feel free to disregard the question of the primary. Please address the rest. Esran fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Mar 8, 2024 |
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Mar 8, 2024 18:00
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Esran posted:No, we are not smoothly moving on from the main thrust of what we were just talking about, so you can nitpick whichever detail in the argument seems easiest to challenge, and ask questions that aren't really questions, but are actually assertions you want others to disprove. What are you talking about? I was trying to avoid being nitpicky by not addressing every little thing in your responses. For example, in your response to my last post, you stated: Esran posted:Sure, I guess you can just make up some secret negotiations that happened and fell through, which both Hamas and Israel didn't mention, and assume Joe Biden has a heart of gold and cannot tell a lie, and everything's gravy. What is my response supposed to be to that? You view Biden's claim as completely independent to the fact that Hamas had just spent 3 days in negotiations about a ceasefire immediately after Biden's claim. That's your opinion, which I disagree with  And you made up assumptions I have of Biden as well, which are false. But, hey, continue to make these assumptions if you wish.And if you're talking about the rest of that post I just quoted of yours, I still don't know what to respond with. You made a claim of (emphasis mine) Esran posted:Let's see what that article actually says When in the article you quoted stated: quote:Three days of negotiations with Hamas over a cease-fire in Gaza and the release of Israeli hostages failed to achieve a breakthrough Tuesday I didn't feel like addressing this because it seems like you already have your opinion. So it wasn't worth being confused on how you're claiming nothing has changed for months when it clearly stated 3 days of new negotiations had taken place. Kalit fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Mar 8, 2024 |
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Mar 8, 2024 18:13
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Kalit posted:What are you talking about? I was trying to avoid being nitpicky by not addressing every little thing in your responses. For example, in your response to my last post, you stated: You absolutely were changing topics. You also ignored the source Esran provided where Hamas and Israel both said they didn't know what Biden was talking about.
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Mar 8, 2024 18:23
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Kalit posted:What are you talking about? I was trying to avoid being nitpicky by not addressing every little thing in your responses. For example, in your response to my last post, you stated: I'm talking about how we're discussing whether it's reasonable to believe that Biden was being genuine when he said he expected a deal to be imminent. I've laid out why I believe it is not reasonable. I'd like you to provide evidence for your position that he was, instead of asking "Why would Biden care about a primary that he was already going to win". Kalit posted:What is my response supposed to be to that? You view Biden's claim as completely independent to the fact that Hamas had just spent 3 days in negotiations about a ceasefire immediately after Biden's claim. That's your opinion, which I disagree with No, I don't view Biden's claim as independent. Your claim is that Biden had reason to believe a deal was imminent. Both sides said that a deal was not imminent immediately after Biden's comments, the negotiations ultimately failed, and the two sides are still not remotely close to agreeing, and seemingly never have been (given the information we have access to). "There are negotiations happening" isn't a good reason for Biden to say that a deal is right around the corner, when the two sides still firmly disagree on fundamental poo poo like "Can Israel still invade Rafah during the ceasefire" (which: lol) or "Is the ceasefire permanent" or "Will Israel withdraw from Gaza". I'll admit that my phrasing was clumsy. What I should have said was "I guess you can just make up some secret deal that was close to done but ended up falling through". The assumption I think you have of Biden is what you've implied in this thread: That he wasn't lying about believing this deal was around the corner. What evidence do you have supporting that belief? Kalit posted:You made a claim of (emphasis mine) I'm saying they have been holding these positions for months, as these are exactly the demands both sides have been making in past negotiations as well. I'm not saying they have been sitting in Cairo doing this exact set of negotiation meetings for months. Esran fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Mar 8, 2024 |
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Mar 8, 2024 18:32
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