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FLIPADELPHIA posted:It could be any or all three of those things- concealing his true plans / motives is his most defining practice. This is heavy book spoilers and maybe just my interpretation, but totally in line with this It is kinda all of those things, but ultimately underneath everything, toranaga needs one friend and that is basically where he begins to cultivate blackthorne for that role in his own hosed up way
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Mar 7, 2024 19:25
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YaketySass posted:Jarvis looking/acting a bit strange fits. From everyone else's POV Blackthorne's the weirdo, and he's learning to use that to his advantage in a more calculated and theatrical way. I just read this part and it’s the perfectionist thing. Toranaga trains all his men in swimming, something not many others do, but they literally don’t know how to dive. He’s just trying to learn and in the book the first 2 times he does it he bellyflops hard and then quickly gets it. The race scene is not in the book.
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Mar 7, 2024 21:18
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No Mods No Masters posted:This is heavy book spoilers and maybe just my interpretation, but totally in line with this It is kinda all of those things, but ultimately underneath everything, toranaga needs one friend and that is basically where he begins to cultivate blackthorne for that role in his own hosed up way Not if I win
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Mar 7, 2024 21:25
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:It is, I only have the book on audible else I'd paste the passage from the book. I noticed this as well and it really helps me get behind this rendition of Blackthorne. Show rules.
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Mar 8, 2024 03:07
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Blackthorne is actually the only casting choice i'm still on the fence about. His weird way of walking is distracting to me. He's always hulking around and making weird acting choices. I mean, it's not the worst but meh
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Mar 8, 2024 17:14
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I think I've talked myself into liking this blackthorne precisely because he is being more of a hulking obviously flawed weirdo than playing it as a straightforward hero. It's one of the key things foregrounding all the non blackthorne characters, which is paying dividends so far. I guess the real test of this direction for the character will be the love story, at the least it'll be interesting to see the attempt
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Mar 8, 2024 17:45
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I'm liking the interpretation of the character. He is, as someone else stated, a pretty weird dude but that makes total sense for someone who spends years sailing around and not interacting with regular people. He's brash and awkward but also quick thinking. Perfect qualities for a young pilot to have.
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Mar 8, 2024 19:27
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I think he's also suffering from scurvy, rickets and other nasty poo poo. everyone else on the boat was near dead and it's been maybe a week.
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Mar 8, 2024 19:35
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IMO the hulking out thing is because he's not used to walking around in a kimono/hakata. When he first puts on japanese clothing you can see him shuffling because he cant figure out how to get his legs to spreadFLIPADELPHIA posted:I'm liking the interpretation of the character. He is, as someone else stated, a pretty weird dude but that makes total sense for someone who spends years sailing around and not interacting with regular people. He's brash and awkward but also quick thinking. Perfect qualities for a young pilot to have. Yeah dude left behind his wife and child to pilot what was effectively a suicide mission. Dude is pretty weird just to get there.
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Mar 8, 2024 19:38
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You guys are winning me over
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Mar 8, 2024 19:40
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He never wore a kimono before they started filming. That's why he's awkward! (I made that up but it would rule if it were true) But agreed with everyone on he's weird as hell and the book does a good job at explaining that his whole fuckin world is turned upside down in the story. Dude knows how to pilot boats and hate Catholics. He hates baths because they make you sick! What a fuckin weirdo 
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Mar 8, 2024 20:35
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no toranaga bellyflop 0/10
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Mar 8, 2024 21:07
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Eau de MacGowan posted:no toranaga bellyflop 0/10 I don't know what show you were watching but he absolutely DID loving frog it right into the water.
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Mar 8, 2024 21:18
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Toranaga flopping into the water, poised and majestic, was great lmao
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Mar 8, 2024 21:37
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Shishkahuben posted:Toranaga flopping into the water, poised and majestic, was great lmao Yeah, that's probably why Sanada was wearing like four bathrobes in that scene. That looked like it hurt like a bitch and he just went for it with no hesitation.
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Mar 8, 2024 21:47
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Not gonna lie, I thought about how much time the actors had to spend all day filming on that boat with Cosmo in that weenie sarong and everyone just like, trying not to look down for 8 hours of filming
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Mar 8, 2024 22:49
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Eau de MacGowan posted:no toranaga bellyflop 0/10 uhh, I mean it wasn't a catastrophic "I just poo poo myself / died" bellyflop but he most certainly did gently caress up the dive- he landed at about a 45 degree angle on the water and I even audibly said "ouch" watching it lol
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Mar 8, 2024 22:52
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nine-gear crow posted:I don't know what show you were watching but he absolutely DID loving frog it right into the water. Ya, but the dive we saw was comparable to like his third attempt in the book. His first two are described as just massive belly flops. boo boo bear posted:I think he's also suffering from scurvy, rickets and other nasty poo poo. everyone else on the boat was near dead and it's been maybe a week. Yeah it actually seems like an ok choice given how compressed the timeline is. By episode 3 it’s been like a week, but in the book it’s more like a month. It would be a little odd for him to be relatively civilized by now, just going off what they’ve shown. Dudes has a lot of massages and baths by now in the book lol. I bet he civilizes and comes off less desperate and goblin like starting with the next episode.
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Mar 8, 2024 23:16
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Bring on the version where he maintains his current goblin level and still weirdly hits it off with mariko somehow I say. Catch her in bed with a goblin
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Mar 8, 2024 23:19
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:uhh, I mean it wasn't a catastrophic "I just poo poo myself / died" bellyflop this is the bellyflop content i crave, anything less is just woke pandering
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Mar 8, 2024 23:44
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boo boo bear posted:I think he's also suffering from scurvy, rickets and other nasty poo poo. everyone else on the boat was near dead and it's been maybe a week. He's also like 87 in 1600 lifespan
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Mar 9, 2024 02:39
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No Mods No Masters posted:Bring on the version where he maintains his current goblin level and still weirdly hits it off with mariko somehow I say. Catch her in bed with a goblin 
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Mar 9, 2024 02:40
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No Mods No Masters posted:Bring on the version where he maintains his current goblin level and still weirdly hits it off with mariko somehow I say. Catch her in bed with a goblin There is precedent 
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Mar 9, 2024 02:42
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On The Internet posted:He never wore a kimono before they started filming. That's why he's awkward! One of the bits I love in the books is a bit where Blackthorne is warmly remembering when it got cold in England and he'd just lie down on the floor and cuddle with his dogs to stay warm, and imagining the horror the Japanese characters would have if he told them that. 
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Mar 9, 2024 03:48
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The cool thing about the book is initially you're super invested in Blackthorne, but as it goes on it's like "who cares about that guy, what's going on with Toranaga?" I hope the show follows the same pattern. The ending is super satisfying and if the show pulls it off even a little bit they'll win every Emmy
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Mar 9, 2024 03:53
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Maybe I'm a sucker for Fish Out of Water stories, but I completely loved Blackthorne's reaction during the Osaka escape when he recognized his crew from the trip there. I think it might have been the first time when we see that he's actually happy to see someone. And then when he took them bastards right through the blockade? *chefs kiss* Filled me with glee.
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Mar 9, 2024 06:17
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That's not his crew though, right? It was a group he had like one previous sailing encounter with? Because his actual crew is still out there somewhere. Covered in filth
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Mar 9, 2024 15:45
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I believe it's the crew from the first episode, the one where he pilots them out of the storm, essentially saving all their lives. So they must be pretty grateful.
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Mar 9, 2024 15:50
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Yeah, it was the crew he sailed to Osaka with under Rodriguez, but they've good reason to like him and want to help him since he saved all their lives taking control of the boat when Rodriguez was knocked overboard. His actual crew are still being held at the village where he first washed up ashore, and that (I think) is where they're heading now so he can start training Yabu and the others fighting tactics that he doesn't actually have any idea about. Edit: yep, as above! Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Mar 11, 2024 |
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Mar 9, 2024 15:50
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Vampire Panties posted:IMO the hulking out thing is because he's not used to walking around in a kimono/hakata. When he first puts on japanese clothing you can see him shuffling because he cant figure out how to get his legs to spread I only know what I know of the novel because of History of Japan (Mike Duncan) podcast's ancient "Shogun" the novel review, but in the book Blackthorne had no kids nor wife, whereas the real person he's more or less loosely based on did? Interesting change, if accurate. Dessel fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Mar 9, 2024 |
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Mar 9, 2024 20:32
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Jerusalem posted:Yeah, it was the crew he sailed to Osaka with under Rodriguez, but they've good reason to like him and want to help him since he saved all their lives taking control of the boat when Rodrigues was knocked overboard. Possibly. They might have been moved to Yedo (Tokyo) by now I think. They are still filthy though but only because that’s how they lived in Europe. Baths will kill you, drafts kill you, sewage is thrown into the streets. Dessel posted:I only know what I know of the novel because of History of Japan (Mike Duncan) podcast's ancient "Shogun" the novel review, but in the book Blackthorne had no kids nor wife, whereas the real person he's more or less loosely based on did? Interesting change, if accurate. I’m very confused. This isn’t true, he thinks of them often, usually trying to not think about them until he feels safe at sea and heading home.
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Mar 9, 2024 21:36
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Yeah it doesn't sound right to me, I was pretty confident both novel blackthorne and william adams had a wife and kids in england I mean wikipedia backs it up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Adams_(pilot) No Mods No Masters fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Mar 9, 2024 |
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Mar 9, 2024 21:43
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Then the podcast was just downright wrong wrt the novel. History and the real person was accurate though as he said and I checked the wiki of course. edit: How about the other adaptation? Maybe I'm missremembering and he referred to that one instead. edit2: Nah he was just downright wrong in his episode judging by the comments on https://isaacmeyer.net/2013/11/episode-30-a-review-of-shogun/ Good to know. Dessel fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Mar 9, 2024 |
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Mar 9, 2024 21:58
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Dessel posted:Then the podcast was just downright wrong wrt the novel. History and the real person was accurate though as he said and I checked the wiki of course. No worries! It’s a 1200 page tome and I’m only relatively sure of myself because I’m reading it again right now.
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Mar 9, 2024 22:16
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Yeah Blackthorne thinks about his wife and kids in, like, the second chapter of the book.
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Mar 9, 2024 22:20
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Jamwad Hilder posted:Yeah Blackthorne thinks about his wife and kids in, like, the second chapter of the book. Later on, he gets disgusted thinking of how dirty they were when they hosed, having experienced Japanese clean, and wonders if he could ever convince her to get clean!
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Mar 9, 2024 22:25
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kiimo posted:That's not his crew though, right? It was a group he had like one previous sailing encounter with? Yep! Sorry I should have been more clear on which 'crew'😅. But yeah, I meant his excitement in seeing the Japanese crew he sailed to Osaka with.
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Mar 10, 2024 00:01
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mobby_6kl posted:Mariko seems to get over the death of her husband pretty quickly. "Oh no, my rear end in a top hat husband died just after being a dick to my son. How shall I survive this."
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Mar 10, 2024 00:13
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And of loving course he named his kids Tudor and Lisbeth.
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Mar 10, 2024 00:19
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Enderzero posted:Later on, he gets disgusted thinking of how dirty they were when they hosed, having experienced Japanese clean, and wonders if he could ever convince her to get clean! Re-enactors have shown pretty convincingly (at least to me) that the filth of medieval and early modern Europeans is overblown. We clean ourselves by immersing our bodies in water every day, so when we hear that past Europeans didn't do that, we assume they didn't clean themselves. It's projection. Early modern Europeans did have working noses and were aware of cleaning themselves, but they did it by sponge baths and rubbing their bodies with cloth, which would then be washed.
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Mar 10, 2024 00:50
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