|
Now that I've slept on it, I think I like Rebirth a lot more than Remake. Game just plays better, I like the open world stuff (even if after Corel I was feeling pretty burnt out and ignored all side stuff sans Queens Blood, which I did finish and thought was great) and the story divergence stuff didn't annoy me nearly as much. I think my issue is entirely I dislike the Whispers and how they were used in Remake but here they are not an omnipresent force outside the last part of the game which I think was a very good decision. Loved the dead timeline Zack scenes, just amazing atmosphere, especially the date with Aerith towards the end. Shame we're going to be waiting 3-4 years for the finale but I definitely am way more excited for it than I was after beating Remake on launch lol.
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2024 14:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 18:18 |
|
|
So do the alt Marlenes know they're in a doomed timeline since one of them warned Zack of Aerith's upcoming murder.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2024 18:23
|
|
|
Azubah posted:So do the alt Marlenes know they're in a doomed timeline since one of them warned Zack of Aerith's upcoming murder. I feel like at least one interpretation of that is it's just her admitting what she saw in remake 1 when she hugged aerith and is maybe not particularly connected to being in the other timeline
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2024 18:39
|
|
|
https://www.rpgsite.net/feature/15561-explaining-analysing-what-happens-in-final-fantasy-vii-rebirth-ending ImpAtom, you had more time with the game than the rest of us, and so more time to think about the ending. What do you make of this theory? Reaching, or valid? Right now I'm in the camp that says Cloud has fully lost his marbles
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2024 19:54
|
|
|
triple sulk posted:in spite of its flaws which were mostly around pacing. I was fine with the pacing for most of the game, but I can understand the complaints against it. However the final stretch, ch13 and 14, loving dragged rear end and was way too long. At the end I was just hoping for it to be over. Kinda soured the rest of the game a bit for me.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 06:31
|
|
|
Gologle posted:https://www.rpgsite.net/feature/15561-explaining-analysing-what-happens-in-final-fantasy-vii-rebirth-ending It's both. The answer is both. Cloud has fully lost his marbles, and things are not in fact just "Been resolved to a point where we're right on track we'll never bring this stuff up again." In fact, Cloud seeing things from other worlds he cannot comprehend is probably going to make his brain snapping like a twig be even more impactful. Aside: Notice how when Biggs talks to Zack he mentions everyone knowing Cloud's a badass even though he puts on airs, and Zack's like "Are we talking about the same Cloud?" Because that also asks the question "So uh... in Zack's Timeline was Cloud never there? Or did Biggs cross over timelines? The start of the game has them mention an Avalanche Ex-Soldier with a Buster Sword but that's not possible if Cloud wasn't in Midgar. And they aren't referring to Zack. I suspect that Cloud's "Being Put Back Together" is going to be a little more involved than just working out the kinks that we already know exist. I would assume that would in fact be the time of straightening out a twisted, parallel timeline. Now, if you want crazy theories. We see multiple stamps and multiple timelines. 1 and 2 are unaccounted for. Timeline 3 is the Spitz Timeline. the Timeline where Cloud and An Aerith go on a date, she gives him the full white materia and pushes him through right as she's about to be killed and the world is about to end. Timeline 4 is the Terrier Timeline, the Timeline where Zack lives. Which we believe to be the results of the actions taken in the Beagle Timeline, Timeline 5. But what if that's not the case? What if Terrier doesn't excist because of Beagle, what if Beagle exists because of Terrier? We've seen 6 stamps, with Pug Stamp being the 6th... so what will Stamp 7 be? Will that be the actual final timeline? Will it be signified by Cloud being put back together again? Man... I sure didn't think I'd need a fuckin' Marathon Infinity style chart to track what's happening. Onmi fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Mar 11, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 11:41
|
|
|
I definitely think there's a lot more to come with the alternate reality stuff, but I think that article's reaching a bit. For one, I'm not sure where the author got the idea that if Red XIII wasn't in the Singularity with the rest of the group at the end of Remake, he wouldn't still be with them now. We meet a lot of people from our main reality who weren't in the Singularity again. Hell, Yuffie was in Midgar at the time and wasn't in the Singularity and she's still part of this story and in the same universe. I feel like they're reaching for a reason why Cloud is seeing another reality from the others, when it's possible that he's just not seeing the truth of any reality. After she gets stabbed, every scene we have of Aerith has her acting... well, very dead. She's behaving like a spirit saying her farewells, not like someone who's alive in one timeline and dead in another. She comforts Cloud over her own death, appears out of the white void during the final boss fight (just like she does in Advent Children), and sadly says goodbye at the end. To me, that all signposts that she's dead-dead, not "dead in one universe but alive in another." But the one thing that gives me pause is all the rainbow light stuff. The rainbow light does seem closely connected with "timeline divergence" or "creating a new timeline" or something like that, and there's rainbow light all over those scenes. That's the one thing that suggests that maybe the article is right and I'm just misreading Aerith's behavior. It's also possible that the rainbow "timeline light" might be there because of Sephiroth's confluence of worlds that's going on, hard to say. Harrow fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Mar 11, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 14:05
|
|
|
Also, dumb prediction: Remake has an obvious reference to the ending of the original with the scene where Cloud and Sephiroth are squaring up to duel and the camera flashes back and forth between them. Rebirth did it again, this time with Zack and Cloud standing together. My guess: part 3 will do it one last time, this time with Cloud, Zack, and Aerith.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 14:28
|
|
|
Harrow posted:I definitely think there's a lot more to come with the alternate reality stuff, but I think that article's reaching a bit. For one, I'm not sure where the author got the idea that if Red XIII wasn't in the Singularity with the rest of the group at the end of Remake, he wouldn't still be with them now. We meet a lot of people from our main reality who weren't in the Singularity again. Hell, Yuffie was in Midgar at the time and wasn't in the Singularity and she's still part of this story and in the same universe. The only thing that breaks the "Well Cloud's just crazy" is the fact that he see's the crack in the sky that people in the Terrier Timeline are seeing. Aerith is easily explained as "Ah Cloud's completely lost the plot and refuses to accept she's died." But why would he see something others have seen? EDIT: I also think it's worth considering something meta about Cloud breaking and then being put back together in the original. Cloud breaks because he believes everything he ever thought was a lie. Part of the support for that break is that to Tifa, yes, everything Cloud said has been a lie, he was never in Nibelheim. But the reality is while he wasn't Zack he was in Nibelheim, and he did save Tifa and he did defeat Sephiroth. Tifa was also wrong, and the truth lay somewhere else. My prediction is that Cloud will break over not just "You were never in Nibelheim" but "Cloud, Aerith died." And just like the original, reconciliation isn't coming to realize "Yup I was never there and in fact, I was just crazy." But locating the truth amidst the discrepancies. Onmi fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Mar 11, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 14:29
|
|
|
Onmi posted:The only thing that breaks the "Well Cloud's just crazy" is the fact that he see's the crack in the sky that people in the Terrier Timeline are seeing. Aerith is easily explained as "Ah Cloud's completely lost the plot and refuses to accept she's died." But why would he see something others have seen? Yeah, that's another thing. I guess it could be multiple things at the same time. Cloud's mind broke, and he's seeing metaphysical phenomena others aren't, and he's seeing Aerith's spirit (who Red XIII also senses). This doesn't really answer the question, but I wonder if Jenova cells play a part in the ability to see and interact with otherworldly things like this. Maybe he's seeing the crack in the sky "early" because of his Jenova cells,. Maybe the other black robed guys are seeing it, too, which is why they're all moving out from Nibelheim at this moment, like a bat signal for the Reunion. All I know is the Ultimania for this is going to be wild and I'm looking forward to everyone trying to interpret it for years before part 3 comes out.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 14:35
|
|
|
Harrow posted:Yeah, that's another thing. I guess it could be multiple things at the same time. Cloud's mind broke, and he's seeing metaphysical phenomena others aren't, and he's seeing Aerith's spirit (who Red XIII also senses). I think the Jenova cells are also why in Remake he was seeing flashes of things that haven't yet happened. Aerith had foreknowledge of the future because of the White Materia, Materia is the knowledge of the planet crystalized and given form. Jenova is someone kept outside of the Lifestream, unable to die. But it is also a hive mind, hence Jenova Theory, that the cells will inevitably return to one whole. Cloud was seeing things that Jenova had memory of. Also, this Ultimania is going to go so hard. And I fully expect Re3 to come out 2027 for the 30th. Onmi fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Mar 11, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 14:42
|
|
|
Yeah, it’s either Jenova cells, or him being dunked in mako for so long that a piece of him was literally left within the Lifestream - one that eventually needs to be retrieved for him to be whole again. And him having that connection to the planet can make him see all kinds of trippy planet-conjured machinations.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 14:42
|
|
|
HD DAD posted:Yeah, it’s either Jenova cells, or him being dunked in mako for so long that a piece of him was literally left within the Lifestream - one that eventually needs to be retrieved for him to be whole again. And him having that connection to the planet can make him see all kinds of trippy planet-conjured machinations. Ohhh y'know, that makes sense, too. Mako poisoning happens because the memories and souls within the Lifestream overwhelm your own, essentially washing away your memories and identity. It'd make sense that those things would still be in the Lifestream, like the forgotten memories Tifa relived when she fell in at Gongaga.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 14:44
|
|
|
I'm not sure how I feel about Rufus' whole deal this game; there's the whole Sarruf thing where his brilliant, Dracula-like fake name isn't worked out by a single member of Shinra (even if they *are* morons) especially when Sephiroth/Jenova/"Glenn Lodbrok" spells it out with neon letters - idk, it just feels inelegant here compare to the more subtle hints about Rufus supporting Avalanche as a tool against his father from previous entries. "Glenn" in general just felt weird, OG Rufus could be an idiot and drive plot elements all by himself without needing a puppetmaster.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 16:20
|
|
|
Complete_Cynic posted:I'm not sure how I feel about Rufus' whole deal this game; there's the whole Sarruf thing where his brilliant, Dracula-like fake name isn't worked out by a single member of Shinra (even if they *are* morons) especially when Sephiroth/Jenova/"Glenn Lodbrok" spells it out with neon letters - idk, it just feels inelegant here compare to the more subtle hints about Rufus supporting Avalanche as a tool against his father from previous entries. My assumption with Rufus is that they are attempting to soften him enough so that him having a face turn in Advent Children feels less false. Gologle posted:https://www.rpgsite.net/feature/15561-explaining-analysing-what-happens-in-final-fantasy-vii-rebirth-ending It's possible but as pointed out, the other Stamps appear at least once in the main universe, and I think it could be as easily a case of the Paw Patrol clone having multiple characters. There's obviously multiple universes and the dog thing is mostly consistent so I can buy that. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Mar 11, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 16:30
|
|
|
I've never been entirely up to speed with the EU. How much of the Wutai plot we learn about in Rebirth is either drawn from the EU or original to Rebirth?
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 16:55
|
|
|
Fedule posted:I've never been entirely up to speed with the EU. How much of the Wutai plot we learn about in Rebirth is either drawn from the EU or original to Rebirth? A good chunk of it is from Before Crisis, where the original AVALANCHE was based out of Wutai and being funded by Rufus. The Glenn stuff and Wutai being more openly aggressive during the main game is new but it's largely based on "Wutai and Avalanche were working together and Rufus was funding it to gently caress over his dad." Honestly like, S-E really should be considering some kind of BC remake or revival or something. So much of the stuff in Remakeverse comes from that, and hell, a Turks-focused game would probably sell great. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Mar 11, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 16:56
|
|
|
In the Japanese they literally call him Sufur but that transliterated so awkwardly (and the way they write Rufus is a bit embellished with a U in it for some reason) I didn’t get it until the end.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 17:18
|
|
|
I didn't get it until right now
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 17:56
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:A good chunk of it is from Before Crisis, where the original AVALANCHE was based out of Wutai and being funded by Rufus. The Glenn stuff and Wutai being more openly aggressive during the main game is new but it's largely based on "Wutai and Avalanche were working together and Rufus was funding it to gently caress over his dad." I would be shocked if they didn't make an Advent Children game to resolve some of the lovely parts of the movie (everything that isn't the Tifa or Sephiroth fights).
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 18:02
|
|
|
I would still pay $70 for an AC prequel game where Cloud does deliveries Death Stranding style.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 18:03
|
|
|
It will be interesting to see how/if they can stop going to the FF7verse after part 3. They're going to have so much investment in development and assets and they know it will be highly profitable.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 18:04
|
|
|
Is the soldier degradation the same as the geostigma stuff from AC? It's just jenova cells trying to take over the body, right?
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 18:04
|
|
|
The Dave posted:It will be interesting to see how/if they can stop going to the FF7verse after part 3. They're going to have so much investment in development and assets and they know it will be highly profitable. They still have the lurking specter of Genesis.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 18:05
|
|
|
A thing I appreciate that is probably too spoilery a discussion for the main thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3ANG1V3Do0 I absolutely love how they went, "Okay, we did a faithful recreation of 'J-E-N-O-V-A' in Remake. Now we get to go wild with it." The vocals and the wildly accelerating arpeggio in the Jenova Emergent theme are just absolutely perfect Also I kind of like the twists on the Jenova fight names this time. BIRTH becomes "Emergent" and LIFE becomes "Lifeclinger." Makes me wonder if the Japanese versions are the same names as the original. Harrow fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Mar 11, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 18:26
|
|
|
Azubah posted:Is the soldier degradation the same as the geostigma stuff from AC? It's just jenova cells trying to take over the body, right? So all of this is a bit confusing so: SOLDIERs are super soldiers made by bathing them in Mako. This gives them the glowing eyes and enhanced abilities. These are "Project 0" SOLDIERS. Glenn Lodbrok and the other characters from Ever Crisis begin as one of these, though by Rebirth Glenn appears to have gotten an S-Type upgrade. Once Jenova was discovered however they added the Jenova poo poo to the SOLDIER mix, meaning bathed in Mako + Jenova became the new SOLDIER programs Of those there were two programs: Project G and Project S. Project G(enesis) SOLDIERS are made using the shittier inferior process which involved diluted Jenova and degrade over time. This is what people know as 'degredation' because they were the original ones used. However it is possble for G-types to be 'fixed' with an injection of Genesis' cells after he's fixed. (This is how Deepground keeps themselves together.) Project S SOLDIERS are made using a pure Jenova injection in addition to the Mako. They are not the kind that suffer from degradation and in general are more stable, but Shinra keeps it a secret that there are multiple kinds so people assume SOLDIERs are just... that. Project S SOLDIERS appear to be potentially vulnerable to Jenova's influence but not all of them are, which is why SOLDIER isn't nothing but black robes. Now in addition to that there's also Hojo's Reunion process, where he injects people with Sephiroth (not Jenova) cells and bathes them in Mako to create copies of Sephiroth. This is what Cloud is. These particular ones seem to be super vulnerable to Jenova's influence. You see another example of this with Roche where he's already an S-Type Soldier but he goes to Hojo to geta power up and gets Reunioned, which is where he barely holds it together long enough to fight Cloud before he goes full Black Robe. Geostigma is Jenova/Sephiroth's cells in the lifestream and anyone who came in contact with it ended up basically had their bodies self-destructing trying to destroy it. it's basically a 'natural' version of Hojo's thing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 18:31
|
|
|
The Dave posted:It will be interesting to see how/if they can stop going to the FF7verse after part 3. They're going to have so much investment in development and assets and they know it will be highly profitable. There's supposed to be that FFIX remake. Which still kinda baffles me. FFX would be the logical next one to remake. Although I don't want an FFX remake in an ARPG style so they can do FFIX instead, please. Azubah posted:Is the soldier degradation the same as the geostigma stuff from AC? It's just jenova cells trying to take over the body, right? Near as I recall from theorizing about AC from two decades ago now, Geostigma was a specific reaction of the Jenova Cells in people, probably triggered by Sephiroth. Jenova at this point is super dead. Like, nobody got a fatal disease from having Jenova Cells in the original game or its backstory. They got brainwashed and overpoweed but it wasn't fantasy cancer. Cloud had Jenova Cells in him for years while he's basically at death's door from Geostigma by AC. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Mar 11, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 18:44
|
|
|
I know this game doesn't go into it, but in the OG version the black robed people are ex-soldiers and some survivors from Nibelheim and in this one so far it's just ex-soliders? And thanks for the clarification on the strains for mako experimentation, I completely forgot about Genesis being a different sort type soldier. I haven't played crisis core since it originally came out. Until Rebirth I expected Cloud to have a tattoo on his shoulder marking what type he was.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 19:20
|
|
|
Azubah posted:I know this game doesn't go into it, but in the OG version the black robed people are ex-soldiers and some survivors from Nibelheim and in this one so far it's just ex-soliders? It's both. (Well, it's not clear on if they are survivors from Nibelheim or not, we're not given any indications if so.) Some of the black robed men have number tattoos and some don't, it gets pointed out in the new Nibelheim. The ones with tattoos appear to be Hojo's direct test subjects (ala Red XIII) while the ones without appear to be people who get Jenova'd up in other ways.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 19:31
|
|
|
Figure this is probably easier to discuss here than in the main thread. Anyone else notice this part of the Gi backstory?     I'm curious what it means that their "star" (maybe in the FFXIV sense, meaning "world") was "subsumed" by the planet. Is it like a natural process, as a world dies it gets absorbed into other worlds?
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 19:34
|
|
|
i guess we're working on ff9 rules now
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 19:36
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:It's both. (Well, it's not clear on if they are survivors from Nibelheim or not, we're not given any indications if so.) Some of the black robed men have number tattoos and some don't, it gets pointed out in the new Nibelheim. The ones with tattoos appear to be Hojo's direct test subjects (ala Red XIII) while the ones without appear to be people who get Jenova'd up in other ways. I hated this bit because there's no actual visual indicator that any of the black robes don't have number tattoos They either A. have ripped sleeves and a tattoo B. use the standard black robe model that don't have ripped sleeves
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 19:43
|
|
|
cock hero flux posted:i guess we're working on ff9 rules now That's exactly where my mind went, too.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 19:51
|
|
|
Harrow posted:Figure this is probably easier to discuss here than in the main thread. It's sort of difficult to imagine what exactly they meant with "subsume". The Gi aren't allowed into the Lifestream because their aliens, so presumably the Planet didn't eat some other worlds Lifestream? Maybe this is like that Omega Weapon plan in action and some other rock got colonized by the lifestream we know. I mean it's apparently something the Gi survived, which is really impressive with that bit about TIME stopping, for awhile before they all died on the planet as we know it... it was a really hard to pierce line. Caidin fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Mar 11, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 20:27
|
|
|
They could also be lying. Until the temple of the ancients said they showed up before Jenova did, I assumed they arrived in the same time Jenova did. Crashed ship, meteor, who knows. Neither are part of the planet so neither can join the lifestream.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 20:34
|
|
|
Azubah posted:They could also be lying. It was after, they specify the Cetra were already exhausted from fighting Jenova (which is part of why they were extremely not friendly to the Gi Tribe.)
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 20:37
|
|
|
My only point of order on all of that is that I do not see how destroying the planet with Meteor will do anything for the Gi. They're still going to be ghosts. In fact, it would be a changed detail if Meteor even did destroy the planet. Sephiroth's whole plan hinged on it inflicting a recoverable wound.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 20:45
|
|
|
Fedule posted:My only point of order on all of that is that I do not see how destroying the planet with Meteor will do anything for the Gi. They're still going to be ghosts. They're gambling on the planet being destroyed being enough to send them over into the wonderful void of nonexistence. It's entirely driven by their despair and misery and desired for self-destruction above all else, not necessarily cold logical fact. It might not even work but they're so bitter and angry that AT WORST they get to blow up the planet and lash out at those they feel wronged them and AT BEST they get to blow up the planet and also escape their eternal suffering.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 20:53
|
|
|
Maybe Sephiroth just cast Meteor instead of Meteoraga? Hell maybe the Black Materia also let's you cast Delete Ghost and it just didn't come up before. Maybe the Gi are entirely legit and the Cetra really are anti immigrant jerks.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 20:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 18:18 |
|
|
Just throw a phoenix down on them, jeez.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 20:57
|
|