|
Alhazred posted:And of loving course he named his kids Tudor and Lisbeth. I named my kids George and Washington.
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2024 00:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 10:05 |
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:Re-enactors have shown pretty convincingly (at least to me) that the filth of medieval and early modern Europeans is overblown. We clean ourselves by immersing our bodies in water every day, so when we hear that past Europeans didn't do that, we assume they didn't clean themselves. It's projection. Early modern Europeans did have working noses and were aware of cleaning themselves, but they did it by sponge baths and rubbing their bodies with cloth, which would then be washed. I’m just saying what the text presents, bud. I have no idea as to the cleanliness of the times - but the book sure takes pains to point out how all the barbarians all have lice and believe cleanliness leads to sickness. Take it up with the author
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2024 00:53
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:Re-enactors have shown pretty convincingly (at least to me) that the filth of medieval and early modern Europeans is overblown. We clean ourselves by immersing our bodies in water every day, so when we hear that past Europeans didn't do that, we assume they didn't clean themselves. It's projection. Early modern Europeans did have working noses and were aware of cleaning themselves, but they did it by sponge baths and rubbing their bodies with cloth, which would then be washed. 'In such circumstances, nice smells were very welcome. In Gervase Markham’s popular 17th century work, The English Housewife, he writes how to make pomanders (which you carry around and sniff if near a particularly foul stench): "To make pomanders, take two pennyworth of labdanum, two pennyworth of storax liquid, one pennyworth of calamus aromaticus, as much balm, half a quarter of a pound of fine wax, of cloves and mace two pennyworth, of liquid aloes three pennyworth, of nutmegs eight pennyworth, and of musk four grains; beat all these exceedingly together till they come to a perfect substance, then mould it in any fashion you please and dry it." ' -1615
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2024 01:25
|
|
|
Enderzero posted:Later on, he gets disgusted thinking of how dirty they were when they hosed, having experienced Japanese clean, and wonders if he could ever convince her to get clean! What, you don't want her to catch the dropsy do you??
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2024 01:39
|
|
|
counterfeitsaint posted:What, you don't want her to catch the dropsy do you?? Of course not, it’s the Pilot’s wife you god-cursed heathen!
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2024 02:15
|
|
|
I haven't read the book since high school and I can't remember if the diving scene was in there, but I thought the punchline was going to be that he could stop diving when Toronaga couldn't smell him any more.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2024 03:25
|
|
|
I think Toranaga was demonstrating to his people that he, Lord of the Kantō, had things he could learn from the smelly barbarian. So, asking them to learn from him and be subservient to him would be less like a humiliation. Also, he's Hatamoto now, Toranaga's personal samurai, who has unfettered access to the boss. No funny business from you, Yabu-sama. The book scene has everybody skinny dipping.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2024 09:11
|
|
|
Throughout the thousand page tome that is clavell's Shogun, there's about an entire modest paperback worth of weird horniness that the show has mercifully spared us from.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2024 12:05
|
|
|
I watched the first two episodes and I get the Tom Hardy comparisons, but I feel like Cosmo Jarvis is channeling Cillian Murphy in Peaky Blinders more than Hardy. It's the slightly off and measured way he paces his speech. I love it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2024 17:45
|
|
|
I appreciate that Torunaga's crest on his clothes and helmet is about as close to the real Tokugawa one as Cosmo Jarvis is to Tom Hardy Also like Blackthorne being kind of a ruthless SOB, gives him more of a "I know I'm getting used here but I'm gonna play you at the same time" vibe. Like the way he dropped the info about the Portuguese base in Macau for maximum shock value. nine-gear crow posted:It's no more off putting than the blue contacts Edward James Olmos wore on Battlestar Galactica so that he would look more like Jamie Bamber. This is where I point to my Crazy Newspaper Clipping Wall with red string connecting "Bill Adama - contacts" to "William Adams/John Blackthorne - contacts??" (By which I mean to say it's a fun coincidence)
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 01:15
|
|
|
I'm only on episode 2 so I'm avoiding the thread for fear of spoilers but I must ask: Should I read the book alongside watching the show, or wait? And If I should read the book, which one? I'm not familiar at all with the book or series.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 02:47
|
|
|
The book is 'Shogun' by James Clavell. He has some other books, but that is the one that Shogun the TV show is based on. I've read the novel, I dunno, 6 or 8 times, and so far the series is very close to the book. Moreso than any recent adaptation of anything I can think of. And it's just this one series, so it'll presumably end at the same place the book does. They are zipping through - this last episode ended at around page 434 in my copy out of the total 1152 pages. I suppose your decision on reading the book is going to depend on how fast of a reader you are (it's a pretty long book), and if you'd rather finish the show or book first. Bread Enthusiast fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Mar 11, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 03:05
|
|
|
If they do other seasons, is it going to be like knives out where they think people are too stupid to figure out what it is so they call it Whatever: A Shogun Show
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 03:34
|
|
|
I assume next is Tai Pan and it will just be called that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 09:04
|
|
|
Yeah I fully expect any follow ups to be Shogun: Subtitle. It's too late to call the whole thing The Asian Saga.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 09:19
|
|
|
Just throw something about Nobunaga together idk
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 10:40
|
|
|
Cojawfee posted:If they do other seasons, is it going to be like knives out where they think people are too stupid to figure out what it is so they call it Whatever: A Shogun Show Godzilla: A Shogun show.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 10:50
|
|
|
New episode tonight, Midnight EST, 9:00PM PST. Here is the trailer for it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI0fixk8tBc
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 11:45
|
|
|
Hughmoris posted:I'm only on episode 2 so I'm avoiding the thread for fear of spoilers but I must ask: Should I read the book alongside watching the show, or wait? Depends if you see this as a good or bad thing hailthefish posted:Throughout the thousand page tome that is clavell's Shogun, there's about an entire modest paperback worth of weird horniness that the show has mercifully spared us from.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 14:23
|
|
|
Yabushige's Crow (?) feather armor looks cool as poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 17:17
|
|
|
AFewBricksShy posted:Yabushige's Crow (?) feather armor looks cool as poo poo. FX has a nice featurette about the costume designs, including that outfit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7k65stCQJE The show is doing a fantastic job buffing out all the "This was obviously written by British/American/Australian dude from the mid-20th century who was wrestling with some WWII trauma and thought Ayn Rand was just dandy, but was also trying to be respectful in his own middle-aged horny teenager way" stuff, and balancing Toranaga's story and Blackthorne's story. Which makes me wonder about the final act of the whole story: I'm betting we get to actually see the Battle of Sekigahara instead of a "Then a battle happened" two-paragraph coda. In fact, I would be pleased to bits if the final episode is maybe a half hour wrapping up Blackthorne's story, with him working on a new ship, and then a full half hour of the battle focused on Toranaga and Ishido in the thick of it. Also, shame on the book publisher. They have pulled the one-volume version off of Amazon's Kindle site (though I bought it years ago and it still is working fine on my Kindle) and are now selling it as a two-parter, for about $9 per volume. And, if one of the one-star reviews are to be believed, they have Special Editioned it, so to speak, such as removing the early bathing scene. Can't confirm though. Which makes me wonder, especially considering Clavell's daughter is a producer, if they could just wholesale update the book to eliminate anachronisms and such -- while still making the original version available. Call it the FX adaptation version or whatever. Nice Tuckpointing! fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Mar 11, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 18:08
|
|
|
I really like the actor playing Ishido. I'm excited to see how things work out for his character! pretend I spoilered something else on this subject, I refuse to say more
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 21:21
|
|
|
Nice Tuckpointing! posted:The show is doing a fantastic job buffing out all the "This was obviously written by British/American/Australian dude from the mid-20th century who was wrestling with some WWII trauma and thought Ayn Rand was just dandy, but was also trying to be respectful in his own middle-aged horny teenager way" stuff, and balancing Toranaga's story and Blackthorne's story. Which makes me wonder about the final act of the whole story: I'm betting we get to actually see the Battle of Sekigahara instead of a "Then a battle happened" two-paragraph coda. In fact, I would be pleased to bits if the final episode is maybe a half hour wrapping up Blackthorne's story, with him working on a new ship, and then a full half hour of the battle focused on Toranaga and Ishido in the thick of it. I have mixed feelings because the ending of the book is really great, maybe even the best part, but yeah it will need changes of some kind to work in a visual medium. The exact balance they strike, well it will be interesting to see. Much as I personally would enjoy toranaga's wild 30 minute sociopath soliloquy about just how completely and totally he's manipulated everyone
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 21:36
|
|
|
Coming here to say I read this 25 years ago and it immediately caused me to buy Shogun Total War and this series loving rules.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 01:19
|
|
|
I have such a big backlog of games already but seriously feeling the urge to reinstall Total War Shogun 2 and make Tokugawa Ieyasu disappointed in my hamfisted attempts at generaling 
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 01:24
|
|
|
A SHAMEFUL DISPLAY!
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 01:43
|
|
|
No Mods No Masters posted:I have mixed feelings because the ending of the book is really great, maybe even the best part, but yeah it will need changes of some kind to work in a visual medium. The exact balance they strike, well it will be interesting to see. Much as I personally would enjoy toranaga's wild 30 minute sociopath soliloquy about just how completely and totally he's manipulated everyone Yeah. I like the ending a lot as well. (Shogun book spoilers) It was kinda clear that Clavell was trying not to add another 200 pages to the brick of a book, but also focusing on Toranaga's inner thoughts and how Blackthorne will just have to be content tinkering on his ship designs until the day he dies, and that is the destiny Toranaga makes. And then the two-paragraph bit about how Toranaga succeeded. Something about how blunt and sudden that last page hits is really great. I just fear doing a similar thing in TV would feel like a cheat. Also, it's one of the few books in Clavell's Asian Saga that doesn't try to wrap everything up with a disaster conveniently sweeping away half of the unresolved plots. Whirlwind, for all its faults, has a great final act driven by the characters hatching a plan and then trying to make that plan work. (Minus the grenade bit.) It's the middle 400 pages or so that drag it down.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 02:31
|
|
|
Bread Enthusiast posted:The book is 'Shogun' by James Clavell. He has some other books, but that is the one that Shogun the TV show is based on. I'm going to give it a go, thanks!
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 03:29
|
|
|
I guess this could be approaching some dangerous fanfiction line, but maybe with this creative team they could be trusted to do a season 2 covering the siege of osaka castle. Given how much the marketing material seems to be playing up lady chacha (I forget her clavell name) relative to her role in the book, maybe they're thinking about it
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 04:08
|
|
|
If they did that, I'd rather it be a movie than a season 2, but we also had a pretty good Sekigahara movie already.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 06:00
|
|
|
Ep 4, holy poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 06:11
|
|
|
Good episode!! War!
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 06:25
|
|
|
Very good episode. I'm sold on Jarvis now.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 06:37
|
|
|
My takeaway this time is fujiko's actress is also very good. Chalk up another quite improved in the adaptation character in addition to king poo poo yabu
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 06:38
|
|
|
I liked the "don't let the white guy try natto" interlude Like, cmon Mariko, dudes been living off boiled rope and albatross poo poo. You mean theres no weevils in this bowl? None at all? Itadaki-loving-masu.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 06:58
|
|
|
Well poo poo that escalated quickly.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 07:56
|
|
|
I kind of hate this show. I love the premise, the acting, the costumes, the sets, the attention to historicity and the details put into it, just the sheer scope of what they're accomplishing in filming this sort of thing. But I hate the scheming plots shoehorned in every few minutes every episode. I get that it's probably all part of the book, but so much of it just makes me yell at my TV for how dumb it comes off to me. It reminds me of Game of Thrones in the worst way, and I wish it didn't. I don't doubt that I'm in the minority (of probably just me) that wishes this stuck to simpler plots with less scheming. It's likely just the way the plots are shoehorned in everywhere. They're probably fine in the grander narrative arc, I just hate them being introduced constantly in the way they are. I'm bad at enjoying drama, I wish I appreciated backstabbing and random sex more.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 08:25
|
|
|
Jehde posted:I kind of hate this show. I regret to inform you that that constant scheming is a feature, not a bug, of all three incarnations of Shōgun, the book, the 80s mini and this show. Who's screwing over who and how they do or don't get away with it is THE backbone of the narrative.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 08:40
|
|
|
kiimo posted:You guys are winning me over if the end of episode 4 doesn't win you over i dont know what to say
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 08:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 10:05 |
|
|
This show fucks and I wish it were getting more attention. Yabus is annoying though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 09:02
|
|
