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ded posted:if the end of episode 4 doesn't win you over i dont know what to say I mean it does, but I'm still crossing my arms and side-eyeing it and expecting to go UGH multiple times an episode. I can't deny the production though. And it's making me want to try natto.
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Mar 12, 2024 09:05
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Josh Lyman posted:Yabus is annoying though. He's the character I'm finding to be the most fun. When he's not on screen I'm loudly asking "Where's Yabu?"
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Mar 12, 2024 09:07
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Alright, welp. Time for poo poo to get wild. This show fucks.
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Mar 12, 2024 09:08
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stev posted:He's the character I'm finding to be the most fun. When he's not on screen I'm loudly asking "Where's Yabu?" Poor Yabu, he just wants to climb the social ladder, but the guy one run up ahead of him is the loving Roadrunner, and he's Wile E. Coyote, as it turns out.
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Mar 12, 2024 10:04
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Mar 12, 2024 10:05
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Holy poo poo what a(nother) great episode. Toranaga's dumbass son getting so easily manipulated by Yabu's nephew was both frustrating and also fantastic to watch happen. Also lol at: Sees Toranaga arrive: We should have brought better sake  Sees Toranaga immediately leave: We should have brought the cheap stuff 
Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Mar 13, 2024 |
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Mar 12, 2024 11:07
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No Mods No Masters posted:I guess this could be approaching some dangerous fanfiction line, but maybe with this creative team they could be trusted to do a season 2 covering the siege of osaka castle. This will just speedrun the Game of Thrones S7 quality drop, IMO. The showrunners are doing an excellent job, but in all the talking about how dated and horny Clavell is, people seem to be forgetting that most of why this show is good is Clavell actually being a really loving good writer. Jehde posted:I kind of hate this show. Blame the Japanese! Most of this is based on real events.
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Mar 12, 2024 11:21
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nine-gear crow posted:I regret to inform you that that constant scheming is a feature, not a bug, of all three incarnations of Shōgun, the book, the 80s mini and this show. Who's screwing over who and how they do or don't get away with it is THE backbone of the narrative. Lol, wait until he wikis the real history
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Mar 12, 2024 11:52
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I like the way they changed up what Blackthorne does for them- in the book he seems to be a kind of do-it-all European who also seems to be involved in land battles and i thought it was a good change to have him try and bullshit his way through until he manages to go to something he would conceivably know.
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Mar 12, 2024 12:24
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stev posted:He's the character I'm finding to be the most fun. When he's not on screen I'm loudly asking "Where's Yabu?" dude knows how to live that warlord life. kiss some highborn rear end, boil a couple christians just to see what happens and watch your family bang the help, true bushido.
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Mar 12, 2024 12:50
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Yabu's great, an absolute idiot going through betrayal city.
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Mar 12, 2024 12:51
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Jehde posted:I kind of hate this show. I mean, there's already a thousand slow-hang Ghibli-adjacent Japanese TV shows and movies. Actually, now that I think about it, if you haven't already, look up The Twilight Samurai (also starring Hiroyuki Sanada), The Hidden Blade, and Love and Honor films from 20 years ago by director Yoji Yamada. High-quality, but less plot-within-plot-within-scheme samurai movies.
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Mar 12, 2024 13:04
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Nice Tuckpointing! posted:I mean, there's already a thousand slow-hang Ghibli-adjacent Japanese TV shows and movies. The 1980 miniseries is an adaptation that leans more toward the action-adventure elements of the story rather than Japanese politics, and is much more strictly the Tale of John Blackthorne.
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Mar 12, 2024 13:10
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Panzeh posted:Yabu's great, an absolute idiot going through betrayal city. I love how completely naked his schemes are to basically everybody  If he was just an idiot it wouldn't work, but right from the first episode up to now we've seen that while obviously he wants to live and succeed and will do pretty much anything to ensure that, he's not a coward, he isn't beyond putting his ego aside when necessary, and he's also completely prepared for the notion of failure and his death if he ends up cornered. A great character and I love the performance that Tadanobu Asano is giving.
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Mar 12, 2024 13:13
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Panzeh posted:The 1980 miniseries is an adaptation that leans more toward the action-adventure elements of the story rather than Japanese politics, and is much more strictly the Tale of John Blackthorne. If one's looking for a stranger-in-old-Japan story, then it's pretty much Shogun or Last Samurai. I don't think anybody's itching to make the story of Basil Hall Chamberlain or Lafcadio Hearn. Is there a Yasuke movie? Anyway, Episode 4. I'm impressed at how they managed to lift directly from the book but still not let it step into blatant Orientalism. Mariko's explanation of the eight-fold fence is, in the book, just her introducing Blackthorne to the inscrutable ways of Japan (at least as I remember it), but in the show, there's a definite hint of, "Hey, you're not the only one going through some poo poo right now, so maybe chill." As confirmed in the outdoor pool scene later. Nice Tuckpointing! fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Mar 12, 2024 |
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Mar 12, 2024 13:35
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Jerusalem posted:
Was about to post the exact same thing re: Yabu. The scene where he takes out his blade and looks Anjin right in the eye establishes him early on as a guy who is ready to die at any moment, which makes his YOLO approach to life much more meaningful and authentic. Dude has one shot and he's going to make the most of it. Also, I was skeptical that they'd be able to pull off the romantic aspect of the plot but I think the actors really sold it. When they let their guard down, they have a good chemistry. Jarvis has a goony earnestness about him while Anna Sawai really pulls off the vulnerability. Unexpected power couple. FLIPADELPHIA fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Mar 12, 2024 |
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Mar 12, 2024 13:42
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Yabu is my favorite. Such a great actor who I’ve been watching forever but he’s got that real sparkle in his eyes. It was very basic scene and if it wasn't a really good actor handling it, it would definitely come off as corny but when Hiromatsu arrives in the first episode to the village where the ship is and is like of course you'll be handing over all the weapons on board etc and Yabushige kind of laughs to himself before saying "of course, I was going to present this as a gift" is just a fun scene. Very telegraphed but very fun. soggybagel fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Mar 12, 2024 |
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Mar 12, 2024 15:15
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Oh man, I just realized that we're probably not going to get village life delights such as the rotting pheasant/dead gardener and the threat to wipe out the village if Blackthorne doesn't learn Japanese in six months that are in the book.
Nice Tuckpointing! fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Mar 12, 2024 |
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Mar 12, 2024 15:19
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Nice Tuckpointing! posted:Oh man, I just realized that we're probably not going to get village life delights such as the rotting pheasant/dead gardener and the threat to wipe out the village if Blackthorne doesn't learn Japanese in six months that are in the book. We might not even get Buntaro's return, though honestly Blackthorne's threat to do hara-kiri is a pretty good moment. Usually when they have a moment they like they recontextualize it, though, kind of like "if I win", where they avoided a scene of Blackthorne explaining the Dutch Revolt to Toranaga.
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Mar 12, 2024 15:46
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fuji sama is going to be japan's greatest gunslinger, without ever actually touching a gun.
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Mar 12, 2024 16:19
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boo boo bear posted:fuji sama is going to be japan's greatest gunslinger, without ever actually touching a gun. Having Fuji give the idea to hang onto the guns was a pretty slick way to give her some character.
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Mar 12, 2024 16:29
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Fujiko is maybe the most batshit person in the entire story and hell I don't blame her. I loved the actress's light  when she pulls the gun, she managed that without going over the top really well
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Mar 12, 2024 16:34
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The way she barked out the "Anjin-sama!" was her knowing what happens when hot-headed husbands do stupid things. She's not going through that again.
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Mar 12, 2024 16:49
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https://twitter.com/Tom_Rowsell/status/1767153813339664758
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Mar 12, 2024 17:23
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The Japanese got it right on the first try 
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Mar 12, 2024 17:26
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Shut it down, boys. Apparently Blackthorne's pistols are late-1600s flintlocks instead of late-1500s doglocks. Will Western media ever get Western culture right? Sigh.
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Mar 12, 2024 17:55
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Nice Tuckpointing! posted:Oh man, I just realized that we're probably not going to get village life delights such as the rotting pheasant/dead gardener and the threat to wipe out the village if Blackthorne doesn't learn Japanese in six months that are in the book. IIRC the pheasant thing was very ahistorical and sorta cringe so I think that's a fine cut. They did go out of their way to introduce the gardener so maybe they can come up with a better sequence of events for him to die and blackthorne to feel bad. The love story and blackthorne starting to actually speak japanese do require some stuff like that to create the feeling of time passing
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Mar 12, 2024 17:56
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Yeah, I'm not going to miss it if they don't have it. But for some reason it's one of the biggest memories I have from the whole book. Meanwhile, I don't even remember the stuff that happened in the final scene of this episode. I just looked it up in my copy and even though it's different, it's still a similar story beat and involves the same characters and goes on for pages and pages.
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Mar 12, 2024 18:03
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Nice Tuckpointing! posted:Shut it down, boys. Apparently Blackthorne's pistols are late-1600s flintlocks instead of late-1500s doglocks. Will Western media ever get Western culture right? Sigh. literally unwatchable
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Mar 12, 2024 18:07
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I also reread that section last night because I certainly didn't remember ishido's messengers getting turned into paste by cannons. And indeed they simply get turned into paste by 20 matchlocks at point blank instead. But overall they did a good job adapting it with a lot of the implications intact, while cutting out like 5+ really long conversations between all the players making everything explicit
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Mar 12, 2024 18:08
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No Mods No Masters posted:I also reread that section last night because I certainly didn't remember ishido's messengers getting turned into paste by cannons. And indeed they simply get turned into paste by 20 matchlocks at point blank instead. But overall they did a good job adapting it with a lot of the implications intact, while cutting out like 5+ really long conversations between all the players making everything explicit Yeah I think it was a lot smarter to have Blackthorne know cannons than some fresh new musketry tactic as muskets were well understood in Japan at the time he came. Also it's a great scene.
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Mar 12, 2024 18:42
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I really appreciate the ambiguity of the situation of the kid taking matters into his own hands and kicking off the war himself. Because Torranaga's such an inscrutable labyrinth of a character his intentions are sometimes hard to gauge, especially with him just loving off like that and leaving his son in charge. So it's like, was this some kind of secret test for his son? If it was, did he pass or fail or it? Was he counting on the kid to go rogue and fire the first shot and start the war so he had some plausible deniability with the regents if things went to poo poo for his side? Because he knew the war was inevitable, he was just hoping to forestall it, but if Ishido's goons showed up on his turf, there was no stopping it. Plus using his son to keep Yabu in check and blunt his power grab and disloyalty IS a masterful chess move.
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Mar 12, 2024 19:19
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https://twitter.com/EmmaTolkin/status/1765219956143370607
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Mar 12, 2024 19:21
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Nice Tuckpointing! posted:FX has a nice featurette about the costume designs, including that outfit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7k65stCQJE At least in the book, the horny teenager stuff was in part to debunk the 'sexless asian' that was already starting to take hold in American cinema and TV and highlight they could be perceived that way due to colonial influence from England. That and struggling with what he believed to be his own latent homosexuality.
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Mar 12, 2024 19:34
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I guess the funny thing about yabu (broad spoilers) is the situation pretty much tends to push him more into toranaga's camp, if he just accepted that and committed he would have probably come out great having done mostly the same things. His riding the line pretty much only hurts him in the end. Quintessential congratulations, you played yourself character
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Mar 12, 2024 19:48
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Mar 12, 2024 19:56
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Cowards
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Mar 12, 2024 19:56
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Panzeh posted:Yeah I think it was a lot smarter to have Blackthorne know cannons than some fresh new musketry tactic as muskets were well understood in Japan at the time he came. Also it's a great scene. As a fan of one Jas. Aubrey, Captain, RN I was pretty happy to see Blackthorne work out "Oh, right, accurate naval gunnery!" I have no idea if cannon circa 1600 would have been that accurate out to that range but I'm willing to forgive it. Also, I don't remember if they've said precisely when Blackthorne left England , but I checked for William Adams, who sailed in 1598, so he could have seen a well-known play in London about tragic lovers. Not 100% sure about cursed kings though.
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Mar 12, 2024 20:14
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What a great episode.
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Mar 12, 2024 20:21
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Cojawfee posted:What a great episode. Agree, even with Toranaga barely in it. I like how Yabu was initially set up as this dangerous schemer and how it's now increasingly clear just how out of his depth he is.
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Mar 12, 2024 20:47
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