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I feel like I totally misread the whole point of Sense's test. They went out of their way to state how rare an uncompleted dungeon is and how basically, I guess, Frieren's group and others had methodically completed most of them (if I understand that right) wasn't that the whole point of the cute story about how Himmel dragging Frieren through all the dungeons? The first class mages have to administer this test regularly. So it seemed like it would naturally follow that Sense would allow/expect the copies to be killed, but find some way to keep the Spiegel itself alive so that the area could be used for first class training over time (or even just to keep something mystical and unconquered in an age where most of these dungeons have been). But she just allowed the Spiegel to be killed and I guess one of the possibly only unconquered dungeons was conquered, is that right? It really would have tied into the overall Frieren theme of "journey not destination" if the first class mages were intentionally keeping extremely difficult dungeons uncleared so that they could be used for encounters to train, test and refine mages. Idk if I'm being fair but it kinda feels like conquering the dungeon is a little on the nose versus the near-constant and intentional bucking of RPG tropes that Frieren as a property delights in, particularly the constant thematic reframing of valuable items as something that are far less worthwhile than what comes before the items. The Spiegel being a somewhat artificial "curated" test in itself was also bolstered by its behavior being incredibly lax (simply slow-walking the copies towards the bottom? Talk about easy mode) The whole thing kinda felt like the Spiegel was playing nice or something, so I was really, really sure that it would all be an arrangement by Sense and just, ultimately, a repeatable way to test new mages for first class. I'm probably thinking about this way too much lol. Regardless, utterly fantastic show. I adore this series. Is it the BEST anime of all time as per MAL? I don't know, maybe. Recency bias is a bitch. Honestly the fact that I even care enough to dissect motivations and plot contrivances like this is probably good evidence that it's extremely special. Is Frieren the best anime ever? Curious how people feel. Taima fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Mar 12, 2024 |
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Mar 12, 2024 15:32
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Seemed to me like the tests are different each time and this dungeon wasn't used as a test before.
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Mar 12, 2024 16:15
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Yeah, there's no evidence that this dungeon was used as a test ever before. That one mage-lady (sorry, don't remember most of the names) even said her brother was part of the investigation into the place, whereupon most everyone died to the Spiegel. That doesn't jive with the idea that this is a tame dungeon they use all the time. It seems like the Spiegel probably senses the strongest person to use as the defender of its body, and then the remainder as a way to corral and kill the invaders. The tests seem like they are basically up to the proctors in terms of how they are designed. We saw that the 2nd class test was to move the guy with the strongest defensive spells, but that's because he himself came up with the test. A proctor with a strong offensive nature might require students to defend against their attacks instead. Gully Foyle fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Mar 12, 2024 |
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Mar 12, 2024 16:27
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the girl proudly explaining the golem to the dude and him going "who are you" is a pretty good bit
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Mar 12, 2024 16:29
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"There is this extremely dangerous Dungeon here that is a huge health and safety risk to everyone in the area and every few years we gather a dozen or two of the continents top superhuman geniuses in one place to violently test them so we may as well do something useful while we're at it"
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Mar 12, 2024 16:38
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GateOfD posted:the girl proudly explaining the golem to the dude and him going "who are you" is a pretty good bit Edel, right? I liked her “I’m tired, this sucks” last-two-days-of-the-music-festival energy.
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Mar 12, 2024 16:44
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Gully Foyle posted:Yeah, there's no evidence that this dungeon was used as a test ever before. That one mage-lady (sorry, don't remember most of the names) even said her brother was part of the investigation into the place, whereupon most everyone died to the Spiegel. That doesn't jive with the idea that this is a tame dungeon they use all the time. Yeah I'm pretty sure the proctors just cook them up themselves and they differ according to the proctor. Like back during the first test there's a scene where Sense calls out Genau (the other proctor) on his test being cruel since it implicitly will lead to fighting and/or killing, and he's just like "tough poo poo, if they can't get the bird, then they weren't cut out for first class in the first place" We also see that when the invitation/info about the 2nd test goes out, Lawine (or Kanne, one of them) is worried about Sense giving the test because supposedly no one's ever passed one of her tests, not because "awww gently caress it's the dungeon test". Now is it because she's been rehashing this dungeon for years and no one's been good enough to beat it, or she's just been giving tough tests in other ways, who can say. I have to imagine the lower class exams are more standardized. Like... 10th class is probably just that "firing a beam at a far away rock" poo poo that Fern did as a kid.
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Mar 12, 2024 18:35
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Fern didn't mention any weird tests when she took that 3rd class exam before the journey began and they later mentioned that she was youngest mage who ever got "top marks" on it, so I assume third class exam is relatively standardized. The wacky tests probably begin once you want to get in the class where there is a chance that Serie will pay attention to you, because she would almost certainly sulk if you didn't had to defeat a dragon, or win a battle royale or clear a dungeon, or do whatever else she deems as sufficiently badass, to get in that position.
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Mar 12, 2024 18:45
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Lt. Lizard posted:Fern didn't mention any weird tests when she took that 3rd class exam before the journey began and they later mentioned that she was youngest mage who ever got "top marks" on it, so I assume third class exam is relatively standardized. The wacky tests probably begin once you want to get in the class where there is a chance that Serie will pay attention to you, because she would almost certainly sulk if you didn't had to defeat a dragon, or win a battle royale or clear a dungeon, or do whatever else she deems as sufficiently badass, to get in that position. That was my read as well. One of the recurring refrains in this arc has been about the absurdly high standards they want the title of "First Class Mage" to represent. About once per episode we've had someone say "This challenge is completely insane and totally unreasonable" and the standard response has been "Well yeah, that's the point, you want to be a First-Class Mage right?" They also bring up that Sense has, apparently to date, not passed anyone in any of her exams and this is treated by the various other First-Class Mages as a completely normal and proportionate response. "This exam is impossible!" "And you failed it so you aren't a First-Class Mage."
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Mar 12, 2024 18:54
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They're all second and third class mages (sans Frieren) so they've passed exams like the "knock the mage back" test which they didn't find unreasonable. So only the first-class mage exams are unreasonably difficult and purposely so.
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Mar 12, 2024 19:20
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These are people in competition to become part of the top 0.0001% of (A depopulated but recovering) humanity, unreasonable requirements are quite reasonable.
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Mar 12, 2024 19:31
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Based on the histories of the participants, 2nd class at least considers the need for direct combat and support prowess, with some administrative aptitude. 1st class seems more the rank of headline combatants, generals, supervisors, and research admins.
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Mar 12, 2024 19:56
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Also there has only ever been like 45 First Class Mages in 50 Years the Association has existed.
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Mar 12, 2024 20:17
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Welp (no idea why the sound doesn't work)
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Mar 12, 2024 20:24
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Is that based on the Star Wars special advertising cut?
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Mar 12, 2024 21:04
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wdarkk posted:Is that based on the Star Wars special advertising cut? Yep. God I know it'll get old fast but edits of that are my favorite meme of the moment.
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Mar 12, 2024 21:56
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This is also a test that's run every two years so while it is regular, it's not super frequent
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Mar 12, 2024 22:05
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Xelkelvos posted:This is also a test that's run every two years so while it is regular, it's not super frequent Three years.
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Mar 12, 2024 22:57
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no one had ever passed before when sense was proctoring this exam so this is the first time the spiegel was killed. she'll need to come up with a new exam if she proctors again
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Mar 13, 2024 05:49
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Where do people get the idea it's been the same exam every time?
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Mar 13, 2024 07:17
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https://twitter.com/oxymoron_0213/status/1767568703921738064?s=19
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Mar 13, 2024 07:26
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:Where do people get the idea it's been the same exam every time? If anything, the proctors of the First Class mage exam would want to make sure that the exam is different every single time, or else people would figure out a strategy beforehand, and that would take away the important lesson of learning to think on your feet and work with others that you may never have or never want to work with to complete a mission. If Lawine didn't have knowledge about the dungeon beforehand because of her brothers, I doubt her and Kanne would have been able to get to the bottom to meet up with everyone (which someone noted), Kanne especially. Also when she presented what she knew about the dungeon to the group, everyone looked to take it as new information, which implies that nobody else knew anything about the dungeon beforehand or thought to ask anybody who might know about it during the 3 days between receiving the notification to meet at the Ruins of the King's Tomb and the exam (and this also kind of implies that Lawine didn't know about the details of the dungeon until after getting the notice, and that she just asked her brothers if they knew about it since they happened to be in town, otherwise she probably would have shared that info with Frieren or otherwise reacted accordingly if she knew already). Also the conversation between Sense and Genau at the end of episode 22 implies that Sense has never run an exam there before, and the conversation between Genau and the dude with glasses in episode 24 kind of confirms it: when dude asks Genau why Sense chose to have a test there; if she'd done it there before, he'd already know why. HamburgerTownUSA fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Mar 13, 2024 |
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Mar 13, 2024 08:18
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Série ordered Sense to clear that dungeon and Sense was like: drat, and I am supposed to be the proctor of the upcoming first class exam too...wait, I just got a brilliant idea.
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Mar 13, 2024 08:26
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"I'm a pacifist, so I can't eradicate monsters from a dungeon."
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Mar 13, 2024 14:58
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https://twitter.com/tentenchan2525/status/1767872809571909886?s=19 Accurate
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Mar 13, 2024 17:48
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Centzon Totochtin posted:https://twitter.com/tentenchan2525/status/1767872809571909886?s=19 Frieren not holding a giant hamburg steak or a plushy treasure chest is fail. Also, what?! I want a giant chibi Frieren thingy. 
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Mar 13, 2024 23:34
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AlternateNu posted:Frieren not holding a giant hamburg steak or a plushy treasure chest is fail. https://twitter.com/MissesVibes/status/1767927411247628373?s=19 Do you have $180 and patience
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Mar 13, 2024 23:50
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You'd think Frieren would have a specialty weapon made specifically to stick into a chest to deal with mimics, but maybe she actually likes it in there.
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Mar 14, 2024 16:16
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No it's dark! And scary!!!
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Mar 14, 2024 17:23
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Centzon Totochtin posted:https://twitter.com/MissesVibes/status/1767927411247628373?s=19 lol. That seller emitting high intensity furry energy.
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Mar 14, 2024 19:06
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The exam showed luck is also a skill. Since of those duo ice and water mage. The ice one is arguably “the better mage” better grades, higher noble born. But she failed cause she has the bad luck of running into the hair replica and the other didn’t
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Mar 15, 2024 02:21
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AlternateNu posted:Frieren not holding a giant hamburg steak or a plushy treasure chest is fail. 
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Mar 15, 2024 03:10
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I'm really hoping right now that the third test isn't a battle royale or tournament. For one thing with the number of episodes left they'd have to truncate part of it to fit probably and I don't see them doing that with how they've handled pacing so far. For another thing it would just be disappointing because we've already had enough cool battle scenes it would feel anticlimactic to see Frieren just kind of wipe the floor with the rest of them.
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Mar 15, 2024 03:12
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Serie runs the third test and sabotages frieren by making it about mimic detection
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Mar 15, 2024 03:24
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Simple test, put your hand in this chest for 1 minute
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Mar 15, 2024 03:30
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Jerkface posted:Simple test, put your hand in this chest for 1 minute Ah, the Nom Jabbar.
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Mar 15, 2024 04:39
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I'm not fond of the vast majority of anime. I like this show.
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Mar 15, 2024 06:41
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Good episode.
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Mar 15, 2024 17:18
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In hindsight I should've figured it out before being told from the themes of Frieren but it still was a surprise moment for me finding out that the demon king saw through Frieren's mana suppression at first glance It's particularly poignant point to me since we also find out that Serie is better at mana suppression than Frieren. It all makes sense now why Frieren was the one who would defeat the demon king. ChronoReverse fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Mar 15, 2024 |
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Mar 15, 2024 17:59
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ChronoReverse posted:In hindsight I should've figured it out before being told from the themes of Frieren but it still was a surprise moment for me finding out that the demon king saw through Frieren's mana suppression at first glance Also Frieren's max is about equal to Serie's suppressed.
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Mar 15, 2024 18:20
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