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BrianWilly posted:
For what it’s worth, you captured my feelings perfectly here. I’m still going to give the relaunch a shot, but the books are gonna have to be *really* good to overcome my disappointment at how regressive this all is (or seems to be, for now). On the bright side, I’m glad to hear that Mackay will still be writing Avengers because I love what he’s doing and was worried his run would be truncated by moving over to X-Men.
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Mar 15, 2024 07:09
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site posted:I don't think anything about what the previews said for the line sounds all that interesting, but I also don't think there's any version of the next thing after krakoa that anyone would be able to come up with that most readers wouldn't viscerally hate for at least 6 months short of handing the whole thing over to Al Ewing This is probably true, and even further I'd say if they tried to do something bombastic and genre defining after Krakoa it would be an unmitigated disaster rather than just disappointing. A cool down period isn't the worst thing so long as the stories are fun. That said, there must have been a better way to ease people back in. Pretty much every community I've seen talking about the Krakoa run, positively or negatively, included some version of "...and I really hope they don't go back to running the school after this." Two out of three ain't bad but they really should have dodged anything resembling a school for at least the first arc. This one is in Chicago so I guess that's different?
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Mar 15, 2024 08:51
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Alaois posted:Krakoa was loving boring as hell man, and a massive put-off for a lot of people who dont post in this particular thread There's a lot of criticisms you can point at the Krakoa era, but I don't see how you can call it boring unless the only books you read were like Excalibur and X-Corp They took over Mars! Mr. Sinister turned an entire alternate future into Warhammer 40K! What?! One thing that just struck me about the wrapup is that I feel the AI villains have been a lacking in dynamism. Granted, Nimrod has a higher charisma score than basically any other evil Marvel robot, but their whole deal was laid out in the original HOXPOX minis and it really hasn't budged from there. Some more back-and-forth with the human elements of Orchis might've made it more interesting, but that didn't really happen. They wanted to supplant organic life as the dominant intelligence on Earth and that's basically been the plan all along and nothing has really challenged or forced them to adapt that plan. When I think about it in those terms, the other Sinisters, the Eternals, and Arrako/Amenth really did a lot of heavy lifting during the Krakoa era to keep things relatively fresh. I could see that kinda flatness maybe being the result of Hickman checking out early on and then no one really wanting to make major adjustments to the ending he had (so instead they just integrated it to the extended stuff as best they could)
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Mar 15, 2024 09:46
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OnimaruXLR posted:There's a lot of criticisms you can point at the Krakoa era, but I don't see how you can call it boring unless the only books you read were like Excalibur and X-Corp I know I'm a thread outlier in this, but I absolutely could not care less about Mr. Sinister and i ESPECIALLY do not care about actual Warhammer 40k, let alone fake Warhammer 40k with hosed up fake X-Men characters
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Mar 15, 2024 10:32
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Maduo posted:This is probably true, and even further I'd say if they tried to do something bombastic and genre defining after Krakoa it would be an unmitigated disaster rather than just disappointing. A cool down period isn't the worst thing so long as the stories are fun. This is where I'm at. I loved the Krakoa start but it was obvious it was never going to last. Another Krakoa-sized story would not work. I also don't get the "I hope they don't just go back to the mansion" complaining. The mansion and teaching concept is core to many of these characters. And they're NOT going back to the mansion yet there's still complaining. I like good comic books and if these are good comic books I'll read them. At the very least, they're likely better than what's getting published right now.
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Mar 15, 2024 11:58
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So where’s Kamala in this boring relaunch? All they did to make her a mutant just to put her in comic book limbo. What a waste.
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Mar 15, 2024 11:59
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Nobody even knows anything about this yet except for a couple of lines in an article. There's literally nothing to judge yet. You can't call it regressive because you don't know anything about it. There's no way to judge the direction of the line because the line hasn't even started. You have to give it a few issues before you can even begin to see the direction. You barely know more than a roster and locale for each book right now. The main X-Men books have never been particularly my cup of tea but I've always been willing to give them a shot. Krakoa won me over, then lost me, then won me back a few times over the course of the years it's been going. Right now at the end it's kind of losing me again. But for all the good storylines I've enjoyed in there, it hasn't really largely felt like X-Men as I think of them. It's felt more like a new thing with some X-Men stuff in it. And that's exciting for a lot of people so I get the trepidation in moving on from that. But I think a lot of people are ready for X-Men to be back to feeling more like X-Men. A classic feeling doesn't have to be regressive. It just needs to be familiar.
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Mar 15, 2024 13:01
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I think the Krakoa era felt like plenty like X-Men, actually
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Mar 15, 2024 14:52
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https://twitter.com/ryanstegman/status/1768646047381786804?s=46
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Mar 15, 2024 15:36
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danbanana posted:This is where I'm at. I loved the Krakoa start but it was obvious it was never going to last. Another Krakoa-sized story would not work.
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Mar 15, 2024 15:40
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Why would people think it was Teen Cyke?
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Mar 15, 2024 15:54
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Dawgstar posted:Why would people think it was Teen Cyke? In some of the art samples from Stegman he looked younger. It’s just the art style, but X fans are nuts.
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Mar 15, 2024 16:05
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I think we actually know a pretty fair amount about the upcoming status quo. We know that yet another mutant homeland -- one that comprised mutant solidarity, excellence, and identity -- is gone, and it's not coming back, and mutants are once again fearfully scrounging in the fringes of society like rats. Which feels regressive because mutants constantly losing their homeland and having to find another one is the exact specific thing that made the X-Men such a miserable franchise to read about to the point that Hickman said "yeah that was a bad decade wasn't it, we're definitely not doing that again" and now they're absolutely doing it again, seemingly without an ounce of self-awareness. It feels regressive because it's literally just the status quo we had five years ago, ten years ago, fifteen and twenty. It feels regressive because you can seemingly skip straight from the Bendis run to the upcoming one and not actually miss anything, at least according to the panel and press release that is explicitly designed to tell us what they want us to know about these upcoming books and sell us on it.Dawgstar posted:Why would people think it was Teen Cyke?
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Mar 15, 2024 16:06
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BrianWilly posted:I think we actually know a pretty fair amount about the upcoming status quo. We know that yet another mutant homeland -- one that comprised mutant solidarity, excellence, and identity -- is gone, and it's not coming back, and mutants are once again fearfully scrounging in the fringes of society like rats. Which feels regressive because mutants constantly losing their homeland and having to find another one is the exact specific thing that made the X-Men such a miserable franchise to read about to the point that Hickman said "yeah that was a bad decade wasn't it, we're definitely not doing that again" and now they're absolutely doing it again, seemingly without an ounce of self-awareness. It feels regressive because it's literally just the status quo we had five years ago, ten years ago, fifteen and twenty. It feels regressive because you can seemingly skip straight from the Bendis run to the upcoming one and not actually miss anything, at least according to the panel and press release that is explicitly designed to tell us what they want us to know about these upcoming books and sell us on it. Perfectly said, this is pretty much why I’m uninterested in the new era, even if some of creative teams are not bad. That said, what happened to Jordan B White? I know he is still editor, but it seems as if Brevoort is the only editorial face we see
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Mar 15, 2024 16:24
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I'm glad they are setting Uncanny in NOLA because it means we'll see the well-known NOLA caverns and the Tieves Guild again
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Mar 15, 2024 16:32
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BrianWilly posted:I think we actually know a pretty fair amount about the upcoming status quo. We know that yet another mutant homeland -- one that comprised mutant solidarity, excellence, and identity -- is gone, and it's not coming back, and mutants are once again fearfully scrounging in the fringes of society like rats. Which feels regressive because mutants constantly losing their homeland and having to find another one is the exact specific thing that made the X-Men such a miserable franchise to read about to the point that Hickman said "yeah that was a bad decade wasn't it, we're definitely not doing that again" and now they're absolutely doing it again, seemingly without an ounce of self-awareness. It feels regressive because it's literally just the status quo we had five years ago, ten years ago, fifteen and twenty. It feels regressive because you can seemingly skip straight from the Bendis run to the upcoming one and not actually miss anything, at least according to the panel and press release that is explicitly designed to tell us what they want us to know about these upcoming books and sell us on it. Hickman's mutant homeland had an expiration date built into the plot. In fact not getting to that point sooner is what lead to him leaving the X books. It was going to fail from the moment it was made. The only reason you got it as long as you did is because the other writers wanted to stay in it a little longer.
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Mar 15, 2024 16:41
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He could do his thing and then hit a Moira reset. Not sure why we didn't do it that way just like Sins
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Mar 15, 2024 17:02
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radlum posted:That said, what happened to Jordan B White? I know he is still editor, but it seems as if Brevoort is the only editorial face we see it was announced that tom is moving from avengers and taking over the x-line editorial a few months ago
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Mar 15, 2024 17:04
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I'm two weeks behind because I haven't been able to get to my store, but I just hope with Emma being the star of one of the books, she's still married to Tony. I like their vibe.
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Mar 15, 2024 17:07
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My main issue isn't that Krakoa isn't the status quo indefinitely, but that the new one is so stale. Which isn't surprising given the 90s cartoon returning and the incoming MCU integration, of course the books are going to nod to nostalgia and the lines most iconic elements. I can't even blame the creative teams, because you know this was, at least in part, the assignment they where handed. This is the issue we always run into with serialized media, but knowing that doesn't make it any less frustrating. Now, it's is more than possible that good writing and narrative will quell the negative feelings, and even if it doesn't, we'll get over it and move on. But I don't think it's unreasonable to feel disappointment given what we know at the moment.
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Mar 15, 2024 17:20
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X-O posted:Hickman's mutant homeland had an expiration date built into the plot. In fact not getting to that point sooner is what lead to him leaving the X books. It was going to fail from the moment it was made. The only reason you got it as long as you did is because the other writers wanted to stay in it a little longer. This mostly suggests to me the other writers saw in the era what fans of it see: an actual evolution of the concept and premise of what X-Men is about. The Krakoa era is the first time in a long, long, long time I've kept up with a big two comic line, and from the sounds of things, it'll be the last time for a long time.
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Mar 15, 2024 17:21
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radlum posted:Perfectly said, this is pretty much why I’m uninterested in the new era, even if some of creative teams are not bad.
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Mar 15, 2024 17:35
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Air Skwirl posted:I'm two weeks behind because I haven't been able to get to my store, but I just hope with Emma being the star of one of the books, she's still married to Tony. I like their vibe. I, too, have been shocked at how good Emma and Tony's chemistry is.
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Mar 15, 2024 17:42
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Adept Nightingale posted:
Makes two of us, even if I got to the party really late.
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Mar 15, 2024 17:59
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As mad as I am it's still not as bad as the time they put Romita on art for Hickman's book
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Mar 15, 2024 18:01
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Adept Nightingale posted:This mostly suggests to me the other writers saw in the era what fans of it see: an actual evolution of the concept and premise of what X-Men is about.  The amount of world building and care put into it, the whole constructive rather than destructive ideology really coming through was such a great breath of fresh air. But also Hickman mentioned on his initial pitch that all the follow-ups he got from writers at the summit were, “cool mini-series, here’s how we blow it up in the next issue,” and it took a lot of concentrated effort to get them to stop with that mentality. 
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Mar 15, 2024 20:33
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"Aha, this is a great set up for our next narrative arc about the X-Men and mutants being genocided!"
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Mar 15, 2024 20:41
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no one who was sent to the white hot room is present on that spread. jubilee was resurrected there afterward, but she's currently hopping through nonexistent universes which might be her way out. also, manifold has been doing large scale conventional teleportation instead of anything to do with the krakoa mother righteous stole. maybe that krakoa is going to be off the table for now, but available to return to earth at some later date.
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Mar 15, 2024 22:50
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There is a grievous lack of Betsy Braddock in all the releases of the last few months, too.
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Mar 15, 2024 23:28
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It’s definitely a disappointment. The Krakoa Era was so good and evergreen with story potential and now they are abruptly ending it to go back to where the line was prior to Hickman coming on board. At least after Morrison left they had a flagship X-Men book that was consistently good. The new storylines seem rather dire. I’d even argue this is worse than SpiderMan one more day.
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Mar 15, 2024 23:49
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90sgamer posted:It’s definitely a disappointment. The Krakoa Era was so good and evergreen with story potential and now they are abruptly ending it to go back to where the line was prior to Hickman coming on board. Oh my God can we at least wait until the books are out before we start saying wild poo poo like this
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Mar 16, 2024 00:06
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Yeah I'm pretty disappointed, because I was still holding out hope that after the dust settled the new X-Men status quo would be a diaspora between Krakoa, Mars, and Nyew York Citay, like it already was, just with the emphasis shifted from the former to the latter. But you know what? I haven't read much about the upcoming books, so maybe they won't just drop their best X-ideas in 40 years like a hot potato and walk away. You never know! As long as nobody nukes Mars into inhospitability and drowns both parts of Krakoa into the ocean, those settings are always out there to return to.
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Mar 16, 2024 00:07
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They’re leaning really hard on putting mutants out into the real world, so I don’t know how much Krakoa we’ll be seeing. There’s probably a contingent at Marvel that thought the Krakoa era was inaccessible because it took place on mutant fantasy island, and used almost all established characters, with most of the new characters being from another dimension. Now we’re finding new relatable mutants from places we’ve heard of. Eventually they’ll need a school to send them all to,
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Mar 16, 2024 00:38
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Blockhouse posted:Oh my God can we at least wait until the books are out before we start saying wild poo poo like this Yeah otherwise im gonna have to start saying real out of pocket poo poo in the other direction about Mutant Israel to balance it out
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Mar 16, 2024 00:47
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Blockhouse posted:Oh my God can we at least wait until the books are out before we start saying wild poo poo like this
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Mar 16, 2024 00:50
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Blockhouse posted:Oh my God can we at least wait until the books are out before we start saying wild poo poo like this Not around these parts
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Mar 16, 2024 01:02
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Open Marriage Night posted:There’s probably a contingent at Marvel that thought the Krakoa era was inaccessible because it took place on mutant fantasy island, and used almost all established characters, with most of the new characters being from another dimension. Like I said the Krakoa stuff has been hit and miss for me. I do like a lot of the things they've set up there. But from what I've read around there is a lot of people that don't like it and have just been waiting for it to change to something else. I wouldn't say it's like 50/50 or anything but I've definitely seen a lot of people who are put off by it. So while there will probably be a bunch of people hopping off with the end of it I think there will be a sizable amount hopping back on too. I think the larger portion of the audience is probably just along for the ride regardless of whatever happens.
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Mar 16, 2024 01:52
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Blockhouse posted:Oh my God can we at least wait until the books are out before we start saying wild poo poo like this Why? These writers and artists are well known quantities at this point and they have outlined their vision pretty clearly at least for the first six months. It’s not like I’m gonna open up the first issue and marvel is gonna go “lol psyche! This issue is actually written by Rick Remender, drawn by Jim Lee and it’s about the X-men fighting in an intergalactic war!’ For what it’s worth I’ll try a few issues of Gail’s book because I liked her secret six run and it has most of my favorite animated series characters but that’s about it. 90sgamer fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Mar 16, 2024 |
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Mar 16, 2024 01:53
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90sgamer posted:they have outlined their vision pretty clearly at least for the first six months. No I don't think they have.
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Mar 16, 2024 01:54
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X-O posted:Like I said the Krakoa stuff has been hit and miss for me. I do like a lot of the things they've set up there. But from what I've read around there is a lot of people that don't like it and have just been waiting for it to change to something else. I wouldn't say it's like 50/50 or anything but I've definitely seen a lot of people who are put off by it. So while there will probably be a bunch of people hopping off with the end of it I think there will be a sizable amount hopping back on too. I think the larger portion of the audience is probably just along for the ride regardless of whatever happens. Yeah. I have two friends that hopped off after HoX/PoX, and are looking forward to the relaunch. I’m just glad the Krakoa era is going out with a big storyline, and not just limping on for years. I’ll have four short boxes of some of the craziest X-Men comics to look back on. And I’m excited for Vulpes because that’s a real sicko team. I don’t know if Quire has ever gotten to meet Magneto. And Magik teaming with Juggernaut sounds dangerous.
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Mar 16, 2024 02:22
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