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Zuru zuru
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Mar 17, 2024 15:28
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| # ? May 20, 2024 15:16 |
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they want shady posted:***Snipped for length*** This is a good post, and thanks for writing it. Just about Biggs’ Terrier Universe - like the Whispers in the first game being a metaphor for the fans, the alternate timeline is metaphorically a purgatory for minor characters. That’s why it’s dying and depressing, they have no future and most of them do not appear in OG FF7 after Midgar. This is the way it has to be, not everyone can be a main character, and so most of them are fairly content. It wouldn’t matter if the Compilation went up to ZC, there’s never going to be the Elmyra Adventure. Some of them are dissatisfied with this though. Biggs wants to be a true, main character and tries to make it happen. Kyrie turns up to the attempted Avalanche meeting because as we see in the main game, she is desperate to be a main character and even produced her own theme song. But ultimately they just don’t have the juice to do it. One person who might is Zack. He is barely in OG FF7, practically isn’t in the original Japanese release, and yet he’s managed to get himself his own spin off game. And he wants in on the main crew. So at the end, through sheer force of will, he crowbars himself into the “real” game to fight Sephiroth with Cloud. That’s all he can manage for now though. Anyway, regarding your points: the one thing I was really hoping for when coming into Rebirth was big swings. The end of Remake practically begs you to wonder about the crazy poo poo that could be coming up. When Barret gets stabbed by Sephiroth and then is healed by the Whispers, this is the game telling you that Barret unexpectedly dying is an example of what you can expect when they are unshackled from adherence to canon. And then The Unknown Journey Continued and the end result was basically the same status quo as before. They kept introducing things that felt like big swings - the crazy Zack intro, Tifa falling into the Lifestream, the stuff with the Gi, etc. But they all led to not much at all. If what I wrote sounds like cope about Aerith dying, then what you wrote sounds like cope that “the big swings will definitely be coming in Part 3!” I really hope you’re right! I hope all this teasing actually leads somewhere substantial. If I’m honest, I don’t even necessarily think it’s unlikely that it will. But to have a game set immediately after they said “we’re going to get crazy with it y’all”, then has 100 hours of nothing substantial change, and then we get Videogames’ Most Famous Dramatic Scene and it appears to radically change, and then the developers immediately say “nah”: that’s bullshit. After all that, I want to believe that Part 3 will radically shake things up as they appeared to be promising. But I’m forced to concede that the most likely outcome will be a general recreation of the plot points of the OG game, with some noodling about with a multiverse to fill in some extra time that will ultimately lead nowhere, the party composition will remain the same, Sephiroth will be defeated, Holy won’t stop Meteor, the lifestream will come out instead, the game will fade to white, the credits will roll, and then we’ll see Red XII running down a canyon 500 years later.
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Mar 17, 2024 16:52
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I think people forget that Sephiroth wanted the party to defy fate and kill the whispers in Remake. It wasn't just "hell yeah gently caress fate", there was a layer of uncertainty about the potential consequences. Now in Rebirth we see that he's replaced the Whispers with ones that answer directly to him and is using them to manipulate things to fall in line with his big plan.
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Mar 17, 2024 17:03
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If nothing else, I expect that we'll get a more in-depth ending that just cutting to Red and his kids 500 years in the future.
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Mar 17, 2024 17:12
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I think I finally get the ending and why they skipped the laying to rest scene. In the final battle once it starts everyone in the party is pissed off because Aerith is dead and they all start with their limit fully charged- except Cloud. From what I gather it isn't lifestream Aerith but him perceiving the timeline where he DID save her, so he's not sad and his concern about her going home alone is legit. It's why he's seeing the rip in the sky and whatnot as his mind is split between the two paths. I'm fairly certain when he gets hit with the baja blast he'll have to come to terms with the funeral and it'll happen then. He's just, as everyone knows, completely hosed in the head.
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Mar 17, 2024 17:32
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Watch the epilogue be a playable advent children sequence.
Azubah fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Mar 17, 2024 |
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Mar 17, 2024 18:23
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Rhonne posted:If nothing else, I expect that we'll get a more in-depth ending that just cutting to Red and his kids 500 years in the future. Yeah I sorta suspect this is what purists are going to get most mad about in part 3: a longer, more in-depth ending that cuts out a lot of the ambiguity. And while I do get that, there's something very striking about the original's ending, it did also lead some people to believe all the humans had died until Advent Children proved that wrong so maybe they want to be a bit more clear on that front this time or something.
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Mar 17, 2024 19:16
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Harrow posted:Yeah I sorta suspect this is what purists are going to get most mad about in part 3: a longer, more in-depth ending that cuts out a lot of the ambiguity. And while I do get that, there's something very striking about the original's ending, it did also lead some people to believe all the humans had died until Advent Children proved that wrong so maybe they want to be a bit more clear on that front this time or something. Twist: they remake the OG ending and make it even more ambiguous.
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Mar 17, 2024 19:28
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Cloud choking Tifa on a beach next to a sea of mako, with giant crucified Cait Siths in the background
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Mar 17, 2024 19:33
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I'm still of the feeling that I think these games would be better if they just expanded the original story instead of adding Whispers and potential multiple timeline bullshit. Aerith's death still would have been impactful! There are plenty of people who never played the original game and for those who have, you've spent more time with her and so that pain is still there!
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Mar 17, 2024 19:44
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Harrow posted:Cloud choking Tifa on a beach next to a sea of mako, with giant crucified Cait Siths in the background
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Mar 17, 2024 20:01
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Mordiceius posted:I'm still of the feeling that I think these games would be better if they just expanded the original story instead of adding Whispers and potential multiple timeline bullshit. 100% agree. There are many things the Remake does well with the story, expanding upon and coloring what was already there. Avalanche as an actual organization, Wutai and other 'nations' beyond Shinra, more details on mako experiments and other results of the Soldier program The meta stuff & whispers just reeks of an contrivance to control the pace of the story across 3 games. It wouldn't be so bad if those beats had some sort of narrative catharsis too, instead of kicking the can another 5 years down the road.
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Mar 17, 2024 20:30
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Can't wait to play the button pressing mini game during the Cloud/Tifa scene under the highwind
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Mar 17, 2024 21:23
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So is mako poisoning actually just someone getting overwhelmed by the thoughts and experiences of all the souls in the Lifestream?
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Mar 17, 2024 21:26
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Rich Uncle Chet posted:Can't wait to play the button pressing mini game during the Cloud/Tifa scene under the highwind Can't turn off the trigger haptics for that one.
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Mar 17, 2024 21:33
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Okay. Just finished it. Team Aerith is a force ghost, Cloud is really seeing her, but he’s so mentally cracked that he thinks he saved her and she’s physically alive. Very niche question: What was up with the white feather at the very beginning of the game in Zack’s world? Only 3 characters I can think of are ever associated with white feathers: Angeal, “pure” Sephiroth and Aerith, and none of them really fit. What was it meant to signify?
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Mar 17, 2024 21:37
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Gologle posted:So is mako poisoning actually just someone getting overwhelmed by the thoughts and experiences of all the souls in the Lifestream? Basically. It's part of why SOLDIER rejects candidates, you need to be a particular kind of mentally "together" to survive being bathed in hundreds of people's memories at the same time.
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Mar 17, 2024 21:45
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Rich Uncle Chet posted:Can't wait to play the button pressing mini game during the Cloud/Tifa scene under the highwind chadley chiming in with advice
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Mar 17, 2024 22:01
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CottonWolf posted:Okay. Just finished it. Team Aerith is a force ghost, Cloud is really seeing her, but he’s so mentally cracked that he thinks he saved her and she’s physically alive. yeah the whole speech from Aerith about how “death isn’t the end, but that doesn’t make it any less difficult” feels like setup for this.
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Mar 17, 2024 22:16
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Comrade Fakename posted:If what I wrote sounds like cope about Aerith dying, then what you wrote sounds like cope that “the big swings will definitely be coming in Part 3!” I really hope you’re right! I hope all this teasing actually leads somewhere substantial. If I’m honest, I don’t even necessarily think it’s unlikely that it will. But to have a game set immediately after they said “we’re going to get crazy with it y’all”, then has 100 hours of nothing substantial change, and then we get Videogames’ Most Famous Dramatic Scene and it appears to radically change, and then the developers immediately say “nah”: that’s bullshit. Might be cope from my part too, I'll cop to that. Honestly, despite what I said I don't expect them to change too much in part 3. It'd be fun if they actually do swing for the fences, because now that we're past the big thing defying fate might not necessarily lead to better outcomes. They even set up some fun things if they want to work with that, what with Sephiroth having control over some of the whispers. So he could use them to gently caress with the party and get them to change things for the worse. I'm fine if the whispers end up just being texture, though. Even if the plot stays the same, it's just nice to get more time to spend with these fully realized versions of the characters. The multiversal omnishlash or whatever it comes down to in the end will probably look incredibly sick tho
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Mar 17, 2024 22:38
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Rebirth definitely solidified my expectations of what Part 3 will at least feel like, for the most part. The main narrative path for Gongaga felt like a good primer for how different sections like Wutai or the Weapon fights will be. The side character-based dungeons also have my gears spinning about how Rocket Town, the Lifestream, and the Huge Materia adventure will play out as well.
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Mar 18, 2024 01:08
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Hey I beat the game so I can post in here now my money on Aerith is that she is real in the sense that there is a "ghost" that only Cloud is seeing because of his multiversal trip, and just as the Sephiroth we're dealing with seems to be the Advent Children version who is fully aware of what's supposed to happen the Aerith that pulls Cloud into the German Shepard Stamp timeline is the AC Aerith borrowing one of her selves for the Holy delivery. I'm sure all of t his has been discussed to death my now but that was my read in the moment.
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Mar 18, 2024 02:11
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SO glad I got the Rufus-Glenn check in after seeing the fates torn asunder and Cloud return to his waking delusions as they try to save the world. This moronic cellphone game plot really is the capper this story deserved.
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Mar 18, 2024 02:14
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https://twitter.com/Sleepezi_DMs/status/1769439964062789839 This is something to be following if you want to dive deep into FF7 Expanded lore and see a lorehead just... be excited and devour the stuff you may not care about.
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Mar 18, 2024 02:20
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Also like...Rufus is Sarruf, right?
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Mar 18, 2024 02:22
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Blockhouse posted:Also like...Rufus is Sarruf, right? Yup
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Mar 18, 2024 02:25
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Rufus being Sarruf is old Before Crisis Lore. Rufus is directly responsible for 1. Controlling Shinra. 2. Controlling Wutai. 3. Being the founder and leader of Avalanche. As he sits right now he's literally in charge of each major faction.
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Mar 18, 2024 02:28
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Rufus is a pathetic babyman who hates his Dad so much that he is bankrolling and militarising several organisations opposed to the company he intends to inherit all to cause trouble for his father. And it's cool. While I think the whole endpoint of the Rufus scenes of "Oh no the dastardly Sephiroth is manipulating him (into something he was already probably gonna do anyway??)" is quite bad and unnecessary, i enjoy all the scenes of random mobile game character Rufus killed taunting him about how much he sucks.
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Mar 18, 2024 02:41
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Rufus is a pathetic babyman who hates his Dad so much that he is bankrolling and militarising several organisations opposed to the company he intends to inherit all to cause trouble for his father. And it's cool. They're trying to position Rufus to where he is in AC, I.E. a guy who is trying to 'do good' even if he's quite genuinely bad at it.
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Mar 18, 2024 02:44
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Yeah I don't buy that he's doing it to gently caress with his dad. That genuinely seems to be more thought about his father than he puts in on a regular basis. It feels to me more like he's trying to control all sides of the conflict to maintain some kind of order, but Glennphiroth existing is throwing a wrench into that.
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Mar 18, 2024 02:47
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shinra uses wutai as a paper tiger to justify its oppressive behavior across the planet, not hard to see why rufus would be interested in maintaining that but glenn pushed the conflict into going hot and it's probably going to be more than rufus wants to deal with right now
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Mar 18, 2024 02:51
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Blockhouse posted:Yeah I don't buy that he's doing it to gently caress with his dad. That genuinely seems to be more thought about his father than he puts in on a regular basis. It feels to me more like he's trying to control all sides of the conflict to maintain some kind of order, but Glennphiroth existing is throwing a wrench into that. Maybe. I think my entire read on Rufus from this game is that I enjoy the scene where Glenn calls him a lonely baby who is entirely motiviated by a fairytale and childish resentment and Rufus responds with "You're right but I got all this power because of it so i'm still cool!". And i'm like yep, that's basically Rufus Shinra right there
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Mar 18, 2024 02:52
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So Rufus was able to "win" the old war against Wutai by faking the entire interim government to be yet another arm of the Shinra Electric Company. He did this by playing Wutai off against Avalanche, which he also founded as yet another arm of the Shinra Electric Company. And the timeline-crossing Jenova-Sephiroth, who may or may not be the real Sephiroth from the Nibelhiem flashback successfully un-Jenovaing himself, decides to take a break from loving with Cloud to go and trick Rufus Shrina into declaring war against Rufus Shinra? For shits and giggles? For all this to have happened and nobody have noticed before, Wutai would have to be comedically incompetent. ... which considering OG Wutai being little more than a tourist trap, is not entirely out of the question.
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Mar 18, 2024 02:56
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It's going to be fun to see how this all blows up in Rufus' face in the next game. I mean, we know how it's going to blow up on him in Midgar at the end, but now Wutai is going to get swept up in all his gently caress ups, too. Gonna be a real bummer for Yuffie to see her home burn to the ground(again) because of all this.
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Mar 18, 2024 02:57
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what I thought was missing was more talk about the Huge Materia
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Mar 18, 2024 02:59
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Morroque posted:So Rufus was able to "win" the old war against Wutai by faking the entire interim government to be yet another arm of the Shinra Electric Company. He did this by playing Wutai off against Avalanche, which he also founded as yet another arm of the Shinra Electric Company. And the timeline-crossing Jenova-Sephiroth, who may or may not be the real Sephiroth from the Nibelhiem flashback successfully un-Jenovaing himself, decides to take a break from loving with Cloud to go and trick Rufus Shrina into declaring war against Rufus Shinra? For shits and giggles? Rufus didn't win the old war, the war was already basically over but he turned (or was involved in turning) a ceasefire proposal into a political upheaval that resulted in a temp interim government of cool and mysterious strangers.
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Mar 18, 2024 03:01
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Also the One Winged Angel (pure style) rendition that plays during the Aeris & Cloud vs Sephy fight needed to linger on the opening bars more, yes the part everyone's heard a million times. I'm not dumb enough to think I'm qualified to tell the people who did the music how to do their job, but give me more of that part please. The game's about to be over and I needed it.
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Mar 18, 2024 03:03
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Morroque posted:So Rufus was able to "win" the old war against Wutai by faking the entire interim government to be yet another arm of the Shinra Electric Company. He did this by playing Wutai off against Avalanche, which he also founded as yet another arm of the Shinra Electric Company. And the timeline-crossing Jenova-Sephiroth, who may or may not be the real Sephiroth from the Nibelhiem flashback successfully un-Jenovaing himself, decides to take a break from loving with Cloud to go and trick Rufus Shrina into declaring war against Rufus Shinra? For shits and giggles? Rufus and Glenn's conversation in Junon makes it sound like the plan was always for Shinra and Wutai to go to war again and it was set in motion by Rufus' dad. The people of Wutai went along with it because they were pissed at what Shinra did to them and then three badass SOLDIERS showed up with the promise of helping them get their revenge. It's also possible Glenn and the others didn't know Rufus was actually behind all this when they defected considering Glenn ended up with the bullet in the back of the head for his trouble.
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Mar 18, 2024 03:03
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Harrow posted:Cloud choking Tifa on a beach next to a sea of mako, with giant crucified Cait Siths in the background
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Mar 18, 2024 03:04
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Azubah posted:Watch the epilogue be a playable advent children sequence. I think there's a greater than 50% chance they make an Advent Children related game, be it something set in between the events of the game and the film, or a fleshed out version of AC itself. They're already supposed to be putting it in Ever Crisis (I stopped following it months ago so I don't know what else has been put in there to date) and you have to think they're going to milk the poo poo out of all the assets they've developed for the remake. The 25th anniversary of the release is in 2030, which leaves just over three and a half years from the presumptive release of the last part on 1/31/27. (I'm still betting this will be the date because it's simply too perfect to not hit it).
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Mar 18, 2024 03:11
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