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Takeaways from this very good episode: Firstly Serie is a fascinating case study in hypocrisy. Just that bit about suppressing mana is an amazing way of showing her talking out of both sides of her mouth. And I love every person in this thread who got in here to point out all the ways Frieren and the show in general have been taking shots at her. I especially appreciate the story stating that her intuition and reasoning with regards to this test is completely accurate and valid while also then setting things up so you can apply her own standards against her to see how badly she's lacking. I think the question of who is the better mage that's been tossed around a little bit in the thread is an interesting one because it is an intentionally misleading one. If we're talking raw power than obviously Serie is stronger than Frieren, but this is a show that's just now wrapping up an arc about how magic is about imagination and that the world of magic is one of upsets where things can be turned on their head at a moment's notice. Moreover Frieren is a show with strong existential and humanistic themes. Serie lives atop an ivory tower in a shockingly small and narrow world and actively holds her relationships at arm's length. It doesn't matter who would win in a fight, Frieren has beaten her decisively without ever lifting a finger against her. Secondly Fern is very powerful, both when she's pouting and when she's acting as Frieren student. Third and last I will genuinely be surprised if Ubel fails the exam. She fits Serie's criteria almost perfectly. I think Denken also has a good shot simply because he doesn't give up. The old man is wiry and never went down without a fight. Edit for a fourth: There's only one episode left 
Omnicrom fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Mar 18, 2024 |
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Mar 18, 2024 06:26
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VideoWitch posted:also like mana is just a reflection of how long a mage spent training. she was already a powerful mage when Frieren started training 1000 years ago, it would be nonsensical for her to have less mana then Frieren Someone came up with a theory at one point that constantly suppressing your mana might be a form of magical training in itself, you're always flexing your magic 'muscles' and pretty much doing a workout even when you're asleep
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Mar 18, 2024 07:53
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Jerkface posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_4v6L-KO5Y This track is definitely my favorite https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-9FUJxpE9c
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Mar 18, 2024 07:58
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Someone came up with a theory at one point that constantly suppressing your mana might be a form of magical training in itself, you're always flexing your magic 'muscles' and pretty much doing a workout even when you're asleep Maybe, but hope not. The relationship between Serie and Frieren is considerably more interesting if Serie is legitimately and without question the more powerful mage. Because the whole point is that power isn't the end, it's the means, and while Serie might have more, Frieren is worlds better at using what she has to effect positive change
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Mar 18, 2024 07:59
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It would explain why Fern is such a beast, though
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Mar 18, 2024 08:00
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I mean, you don't have to go out of your way to explain that. She's had a thousand years to practice and was trained by one of the best mages who ever lived. Even when she hosed off into the wilderness for several hundred years, she was still training during that time.
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Mar 18, 2024 08:05
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Fern, not Frieren. But Fern also has inherent talent, a focussed drive and a really competent tutor for most of her live.
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Mar 18, 2024 08:15
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Oh, yeah, misread, but like you say she's laser-focused and also trained by one of the best mages who ever lived.
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Mar 18, 2024 08:23
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I get the impression that she both has pretty high mana resources for her age (presumably a combo of innate talent and practicing nonstop since she was a tiny child), and she's also an extremely fast caster compared to many mages (iirc Frieren and others have made note of this).
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Mar 18, 2024 08:38
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I like that the story all the way back from Ep. 2 about Frieren wanting to make sure she creates the perfect field of flowers for Himmel's statue has been recontextualized to somehow be even sweeter.  Quinton posted:I get the impression that she both has pretty high mana resources for her age (presumably a combo of innate talent and practicing nonstop since she was a tiny child), and she's also an extremely fast caster compared to many mages (iirc Frieren and others have made note of this). I think there's also an aspect that Fern's natural strengths (mana detection/suppression, more dakka) happen to be things that are really useful in a "kill demons" build, which is what Frieren is hyper-specc'd into and thus she makes a naturally perfect teacher for Fern. And yeah Fern is hella talented: we've been told many times that mana suppression is supposed to take decades if not centuries to master, with the only exceptions being Flamme (arguably the greatest human mage in history) having it mastered by adulthood, and Fern having it mastered by like, age 16.
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Mar 18, 2024 16:28
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I liked Frieren and Serie's philosophical debate on the use of magic more than the Stille chase or the dungeon crawl. That was a good back and forth between cat elf and frog elf.
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Mar 18, 2024 16:33
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Arc Hammer posted:I liked Frieren and Serie's philosophical debate on the use of magic more than the Stille chase or the dungeon crawl. That was a good back and forth between cat elf and frog elf. Pausing in the middle of the climactic mage duel to do a flashback philosophical debate was sick and maybe my favorite part of the series. Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Mar 18, 2024 |
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Mar 18, 2024 16:49
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Skippy McPants posted:Pausing in the middle of the climactic mage duel to do a flashback philosophical debate was sick and maybe my favorite part of the series. Personally don't care much for the flashbacks intercutting with the fight scenes but the show has been doing that for nearly every battle so far so it's kind of moot to gripe about it at this point. But I'm also not watching the show for insane spectacle light shows so at least two elves arguing worldviews is interesting.
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Mar 18, 2024 16:54
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Sure, overall, I enjoy the dumb laster fights, but I agree that the competing worldviews is a lot more interesting. I also like that the show is less concerned with the mechanics of magic than the ethics and impact. It reminds me a lot of Discworld, where the why of magical bullshit was always much more important than the how.
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Mar 18, 2024 16:56
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Sydin posted:I like that the story all the way back from Ep. 2 about Frieren wanting to make sure she creates the perfect field of flowers for Himmel's statue has been recontextualized to somehow be even sweeter. The show also implies that her “ordinary offensive magic” hits a lot harder vs other “ordinary offensive magic”. There are always massive craters in the aftermath of a Fern fight. Stealth, fast casting and high damage attacks. If Frieren was a mmorpg, about 80% of the hardcore pvpers would take Fern’s spec.
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Mar 18, 2024 18:00
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Skippy McPants posted:Sure, overall, I enjoy the dumb laster fights, but I agree that the competing worldviews is a lot more interesting. I also like that the show is less concerned with the mechanics of magic than the ethics and impact. It reminds me a lot of Discworld, where the why of magical bullshit was always much more important than the how. The show is concerned with the mechanics of magic only insofar as it can be used to further discussion of the ethics and impact of magic. Which should be the point of world building, you build the world for the sake of the story it's going to be used to tell.
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Mar 18, 2024 18:35
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Sydin posted:And yeah Fern is hella talented: we've been told many times that mana suppression is supposed to take decades if not centuries to master, with the only exceptions being Flamme (arguably the greatest human mage in history) having it mastered by adulthood, and Fern having it mastered by like, age 16. Fern has also been learning to suppress her mana since she was like 6. Heiter was training her based on what he knew from Frieren before she became Frieren's apprentice so mana suppression is just a natural part of being a mage for her instead of a learned skill like everyone else most of whom picked it up hundreds or thousands of years into their lives.
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Mar 19, 2024 02:30
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The junk collector posted:Fern has also been learning to suppress her mana since she was like 6. Heiter was training her based on what he knew from Frieren before she became Frieren's apprentice so mana suppression is just a natural part of being a mage for her instead of a learned skill like everyone else most of whom picked it up hundreds or thousands of years into their lives. This also goes back to Frieren's claim that Fern's Zoltraak it a good counter against her because Fern's been casting it her whole life, but Fern's only delt with it for the last 60 years or so.
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Mar 19, 2024 02:42
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The shadow clone guy probably has big hikkomori energy. Probably been spending the whole exam just in his bedroom on his mage computer and mage video game consoles
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Mar 19, 2024 03:41
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GateOfD posted:The shadow clone guy probably has big hikkomori energy. And he'll pass because that's what a real mage would do, you idiot children!
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Mar 19, 2024 03:55
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Arc Hammer posted:cat elf and frog elf gently caress why is this so accurate
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Mar 19, 2024 05:53
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< >
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Mar 19, 2024 05:56
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Need a version of this that says 不合格.
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Mar 19, 2024 14:04
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Mar 19, 2024 17:36
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Perfection
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Mar 19, 2024 18:06
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It needs
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Mar 19, 2024 19:05
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You know, with thousands of years at her disposal, you'd think Serie would build some thrones she fits into better.
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Mar 19, 2024 19:27
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If she fits, she sits. Or the frog variation: If she fills, she stills.
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Mar 19, 2024 20:09
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So what would work for Frieren speaking to Aura?
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Mar 19, 2024 21:52
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Haven’t read the manga, taking bets for the series finale: 1. Fern has to kill Frieren for some convoluted reason 2. Frieren visits Fern on her deathbed, agrees to take Stark Jr on as her student
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Mar 19, 2024 22:26
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The manga isn’t finished, so your guesses are as good as anyone’s.
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Mar 19, 2024 22:31
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I haven't read the manga either, but I would be really disappointed if there was some kind of master villain or big bad involved, and I would also be really disappointed if there is significant drama/conflict or falling out between Frieren and Fern. It just doesn't feel like that kind of world or story.
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Mar 19, 2024 23:33
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My guess is that the new party reaches Oreole(?) and Frieren chooses to "ascend" or otherwise voluntarily dies in some way and there is a tearful goodbye with her human companionsSkippy McPants posted:Need a version of this that says 不合格. 帰れ surely
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Mar 19, 2024 23:36
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Sapozhnik posted:帰れ surely I dunno, I just turned on Japanese subtitles and copied what I saw.
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Mar 19, 2024 23:41
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不合格 (fugoukaku) fail 帰れ (kaere) get out
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Mar 19, 2024 23:43
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Yeah, I was going for her repeating "failed" to all the applicants.
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Mar 19, 2024 23:45
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Gully Foyle posted:I haven't read the manga either, but I would be really disappointed if there was some kind of master villain or big bad involved, and I would also be really disappointed if there is significant drama/conflict or falling out between Frieren and Fern. It just doesn't feel like that kind of world or story. I was thinking along the lines of Assassination Classroom
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Mar 20, 2024 00:08
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Sachant posted:You know, with thousands of years at her disposal, you'd think Serie would build some thrones she fits into better. That's because the audience doesn't see her montage of going through various throne designs for like a century before meeting Frieren.
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Mar 20, 2024 00:12
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It takes elves at least a couple decades of sitting on the same throne to decide if it's uncomfortable or not.
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Mar 20, 2024 00:13
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Maybe she's hoping she can grow into it.
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Mar 20, 2024 00:27
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