|
I assume he’s living on some mountain like a hermit or something
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2024 23:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 12:13 |
|
|
Zangan knows too much about Nibelheim so can't really have him show up before the big lifestream sequence of putting Cloud's brain back together.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2024 23:40
|
|
|
Something else to bring up but in the mural chamber the WIZARDS are battling old knights and stuff, and the knights look like the Loveless actors, which is interesting enough on its own honestly, but when you go further in you see them fighting Ghost Jenova if you look away at the door to the next room Minerva from Crisis Core is there as a ghost and why is the super boss there
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2024 23:55
|
|
|
ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Something else to bring up but in the mural chamber the WIZARDS are battling old knights and stuff, and the knights look like the Loveless actors, which is interesting enough on its own honestly, but when you go further in you see them fighting Ghost Jenova if you look away at the door to the next room Minerva from Crisis Core is there as a ghost and why is the super boss there Isn't the implication that that image is the cultural memory of Jenova adopted among baseline humans, cleaned up over the centuries to a goddess figure? It's mentioned by Bugenhagen that the Cetra didn't engage in temple-oriented religious practices, and although there are various regional tutelary gods, it's not clear whether the Cetra worshipped them. (Shiva at least appears to be a deified Cetra queen.) It's also not clear if said deities are like FF14 primals and more the cultural idea given form (or individuals apotheosized posthumously) than a specific divine entity independent of human existence and worshipped in the Cetra's day. We know Jenova was infecting/subverting Cetra and baseline humans, but we don't really know to this day to what degree it has a personality rather than being a non-anthropomorphized invasive ecosystem. I've often wondered if Sephiroth's assumptions in Nibelheim that "Jenova" was a Cetra woman weren't technically sorta-true, in the sense that the Jenova host body found and harvested was an infected Cetra woman. The other kinda-funny bit is the Shadowblood Queen, who is described as the ancient origin of the world's fiends...much as Jenova was in the original game. Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Apr 1, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 00:00
|
|
|
Jetrauben posted:Yeah, something like this. Sephiroth also indicates that the timelines naturally fuse back into each other as they either run out or are doomed to falter. There's not multiple versions of characters; characters' souls and the Lifestream are spread out across the different timelines. My guess is that's why there's the strange glow in the sky in "doomed" or "improper" timelines, it indicates a timeline that's about to merge into another one, the onset of the different worldline bleeding in. We see timelines splitting and fusing as Sephiroth and Cloud talk in the white void, and it looks a lot like that weird gold-and-dark-hues nebula. This is broadly where I fall on it. The Lifestream has always been able to conjure up representations of memories into physical realities as we can see in the original game with the Tifa/Cloud flashback and what Tifa experiences in this game in Gongaga. Whatever the characters did at the end of Remake broke something fundamental and now when people 'return to the planet' their consciousness is instead getting trapped in these weird parallel worlds that the Lifestream is producing but also trying to destroy. The Lifestream knows this is a threat and isn't right and so the Weapons are already out and about but don't appear to be targeting cities or anything above land. I feel like the fact the Mako reactor in one of Zack's worlds is empty supports this. Nothing is returning to the planet anymore and these places shouldn't exist so there's nothing in there. I'd have to replay the game and pay more attention to some parts to really test this though. I feel like this will all end with the characters somehow fixing this but it'll mean having to return Zack, Aeris, Biggs and co to the planet properly.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 00:38
|
|
|
That's where i'm at too though unsure if the cause is the gang killing the Whisper Giant or whatever Sephiroth is doing as part of his plan to create a lifestream singularity in order to be eternal. Partially just because Zack and Aerith needing to return to the lifestream at the end is a very convenient way to do the 7R manuever of deviations happening but not affecting the overall narrative too much.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 00:48
|
|
|
It might just be as simple as whatever Sephiroth is doing is distracting/weakening the Planet so when Meteor does hit it won't be able to fight back this time. Fix the Lifestream and it'll do it's thing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 00:53
|
|
|
Yeah I wonder what Sephiroth’s plan is to actually win this time because if things continue like this it’ll just end the same way.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 01:05
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Oh! There's something I don't see anyone bringing up but: RatHat posted:Yeah I wonder what Sephiroth’s plan is to actually win this time because if things continue like this it’ll just end the same way. Unless that is just a mistake or change, Holy ain't summoned
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 01:26
|
|
|
So far, one thing we know for sure Sephiroth is doing differently is that he's actively trying to convince Cloud not to trust Tifa. The reason Holy couldn't do anything in the original was because Sephiroth was preventing it from releasing, and it was only released when Cloud defeated him (the shirtless fight), so maybe the plan is to prevent Cloud from recovering from his dip into the lifestream, which required Tifa's help.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 01:31
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Unless that is just a mistake or change, Holy ain't summoned I'm a bit hesitant to call that a change yet, because the actual green glow Bugenhagen talks about in the original is way more explicit and was not shown during the Aerith death scene. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 01:34
|
|
|
Jetrauben posted:My money is on "there is weird time/space fuckery going on and Cloud saved Aerith in one timeline but it's overlapping with a version where she died, leading to dimensional fuckery." I do not think we're seeing a third game without a playable Aerith, though; she's clearly still an active presence and not just a hallucination, even if she's also a lifestream ghost or liminal being. Red reacts to her, even if he doesn't seem to realize it's her. It'd explain that weird part where Cloud's happily all "Let's go everyone!" while Tifa is having a funeral moment Actually Yuffie mood shifts from Funeral to Yay in like ten seconds but that could just be Yuffie I guess DeathChicken fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Apr 1, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 01:35
|
|
|
Jetrauben posted:EDIT: Also, I think the implications of the doomed timeline is that Zack (and Aerith and Cloud when you have your date) is experiencing every one of his deaths. There's not multiple Zacks, there's one Zack who keeps getting cycled through different possibilities that keep ending in his death. But like Aerith for example is wearing all three colors of jewelry bangles from Cloud's "date" with her, indicating she's done this multiple times, I think? She's wearing the same bracelets throughout Remake and Rebirth. But also your choices weren't just bangles, they were also a stamp doll, among other things.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 01:38
|
|
|
And you can't choose the Stamp doll, the vendor is like "Oh I meant pick anything except that"
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 01:42
|
|
|
You can't pick any of them. You always get the flower pin regardless of what you choose. I think it's meant to let you differentiate between the Aerith of that world who wears the pin for the rest of the scene, and the Aerith who receives the white materia, who naturally does not have that pin. (And also blah blah blah fate blah blah blah)
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 01:44
|
|
|
Stim posted:This is broadly where I fall on it. The Lifestream has always been able to conjure up representations of memories into physical realities as we can see in the original game with the Tifa/Cloud flashback and what Tifa experiences in this game in Gongaga. I doubt this is going to end on a City on the Edge of Forever note, because it'd make the entire overarching "Can you change fate?" plotline end with "No, suck it up." And that's lazy and contrary to the overall mood so far. Plus, the directors have said they want this to end on a happy ending for the cast. This is their passion project, their Rebuild of Evangelion.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 01:48
|
|
|
It's funny, my immediate thought at the end was "Oh *this* was what it felt like to see Empire Strikes Back in 1980"
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 01:53
|
|
|
The sheer sledgehammer of terror I felt seeing the sword descend towards Aerith and the immediate shock of relief as Cloud blocked the blow was intense, for me. It's one reason I feel certain - alongside all the big obvious cinematic language telegraphs - that Cloud wasn't hallucinating, it'd be total hack writing to go "surprise, we fooled you!" The game doesn't fool around telegraphing when Cloud is hallucinating; he lies to himself, but it doesn't, generally, lie to you. It's always very clear when he is seeing something that isn't there.DeathChicken posted:It'd explain that weird part where Cloud's happily all "Let's go everyone!" while Tifa is having a funeral moment It's not just that Tifa's having a funeral moment, it's that she lingers even longer after everyone else and seems deeply confused and troubled by what she saw? Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Apr 1, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 01:57
|
|
|
Just Andi Now posted:I'm a bit hesitant to call that a change yet, because the actual green glow Bugenhagen talks about in the original is way more explicit and was not shown during the Aerith death scene. It is glowing green the entire time or else it would be white
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 02:16
|
|
|
Jetrauben posted:
I feel it's worth noting that Gast is the one that presumed Jenova was a Cetra, and it was his research journals that Sephiroth was reading in the basement. In a way, Gast assuming Jenova was an Ancient, and not some biological terror from the stars, is what set everything in motion. To be fair to Gast, it seems like Jenova's body at the time was still mostly human/Cetra-ish like we see during the flashback.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 02:19
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:It is glowing green the entire time or else it would be white Right, but what I'm saying is that Bugenhagen seemed to focus on the glowy halo/aura it has when it's settled at the bottom of the pool, which the materia doesn't have when it's still falling in the OG, so it's still possible that that glow will be green in the Remake continuity and we'll see it later. Basically I'm just saying I'm not ready to write it off as not glowing yet because we haven't seen it where it rests yet.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 02:56
|
|
|
Ardryn posted:I feel it's worth noting that Gast is the one that presumed Jenova was a Cetra, and it was his research journals that Sephiroth was reading in the basement. In a way, Gast assuming Jenova was an Ancient, and not some biological terror from the stars, is what set everything in motion. To be fair to Gast, it seems like Jenova's body at the time was still mostly human/Cetra-ish like we see during the flashback. Speaking of which, in the journals it sounded like Gast named it Jenova, but then in the Temple of the Ancients the Cetra already call it Jenova. Maybe I missed something, but that struck me as a little odd. Clarste fucked around with this message at 09:00 on Apr 1, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 08:58
|
|
|
Clarste posted:Speaking of which, in the journals it sounded like Gast named it Jenova, but then in the Temple of the Ancients the Cetra already call it Jenova. Maybe I missed something, but that struck me as a little odd. I think that's either a legit continuity error by the devs, or perhaps Jenova convinced them via exposure what its name is. The scene with Sephiroth in the Shinra manor basement also has him reading diary entries about how Shinra explicitly gave it the name Jenova. I'm sort of leaning towards exposure of Jenova resulting in everybody just knowing what its name is. The Cetra and Shinra thought they chose that name for it, but really never had a choice. "we called it Jenova" thousands of years apart by two entirely separate groups unknown to each other certainly has an ominous feel to it Zedsdeadbaby fucked around with this message at 10:26 on Apr 1, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 10:23
|
|
|
Jetrauben posted:EDIT: Also, I think the implications of the doomed timeline is that Zack (and Aerith and Cloud when you have your date) is experiencing every one of his deaths. There's not multiple Zacks, there's one Zack who keeps getting cycled through different possibilities that keep ending in his death. But like Aerith for example is wearing all three colors of jewelry bangles from Cloud's "date" with her, indicating she's done this multiple times, I think? I definitely agree with this. One of the hints towards it is in the scene in the pug Stamp timeline with Biggs, where Zack doesn't seem to really know how he got there, exactly like he and Biggs talked about in an earlier scene. It's as though he died (or was about to die) in the "go talk to Hojo to try to cure Cloud" branch and his consciousness skipped over to the other branch. Then, when he jumped to his probable death there, his consciousness jumped over to the third branch on the steps of Aerith's church.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 13:02
|
|
|
It's funny since the timeline Zack doesn't choose in that scene seems to literally wipe itself out as he passes it. Then he turns up in it anyway
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 13:47
|
|
|
Jetrauben posted:The sheer sledgehammer of terror I felt seeing the sword descend towards Aerith and the immediate shock of relief as Cloud blocked the blow was intense, for me. It's one reason I feel certain - alongside all the big obvious cinematic language telegraphs - that Cloud wasn't hallucinating, it'd be total hack writing to go "surprise, we fooled you!" The game doesn't fool around telegraphing when Cloud is hallucinating; he lies to himself, but it doesn't, generally, lie to you. It's always very clear when he is seeing something that isn't there. I ascribe to the multiple timeline theory too. I don't buy the lifestream theory, but it is a neat one to be sure. Ultimately none of us know what's going to happen - a feat the developer somehow managed to do for a 27 year old game (it's okay if you start turning to dust, we all are) where everyone knows the story.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 14:08
|
|
|
Are people that haven’t played VII able to parse any of this? Like if I didnt play the original and didn’t know anything about Zack I don’t think Id care that he lived or died that much or how him being alive in a timeline/other dimension impacts anything
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 14:11
|
|
|
hatty posted:Are people that haven’t played VII able to parse any of this? Like if I didnt play the original and didn’t know anything about Zack I don’t think Id care that he lived or died that much or how him being alive in a timeline/other dimension impacts anything My mate is playing it and it's his second final fantasy, since the first one he played was 16. He gets that there is meta stuff happening but tbh he isn't any more in the dark than anyone else. He saw the whispers in remake and texted me "lol were these dementor ghosts in the OG?" The story is basically the same. Even with the blocked sword Aerith is dead now. We're in the same place vaguely and the last game will probably explain it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 14:31
|
|
|
My fiancee (who had so little knowledge of FF7 before this that she didn't even know the big Aerith spoiler) watched me play through both Remake and Rebirth and the only things that she found confusing are also things I found confusing, it's just sometimes for different reasons. For example, the reveal that Zack lived post-Whisper fight in Remake was "who's this guy?" for my fiancee and "whoa, Zack isn't dead?" for me. Raises questions either way but just different questions depending on what you already know.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 14:40
|
|
|
Harrow posted:My fiancee (who had so little knowledge of FF7 before this that she didn't even know the big Aerith spoiler) watched me play through both Remake and Rebirth and the only things that she found confusing are also things I found confusing, it's just sometimes for different reasons. Yeah the only memories I have of FF7 are from maybe 2004 when I last replayed it. When Barret goes home I was like "ah no this is bad I remember this being bad" then it gets to Dyne and I'm like "ahhh, poo poo." E: for some reason I was always convinced that the world ended at the end of FF7, all the humans basically died and Red was the only thing alive because of dog magic or something. When I saw some clips of advent children and heard it was set after the story I was like what the gently caress. I think that prompted the replay. JBP fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Apr 1, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 14:45
|
|
|
Crockpot theory that doesn’t make any sense at all: all the worlds we’re seeing, including the “real one”, are within the Lifestream. The games take place in the instant after Meteor is destroyed, and is the planet running humanity through a trial to see if they deserve to live or die.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 15:18
|
|
|
JBP posted:Yeah the only memories I have of FF7 are from maybe 2004 when I last replayed it. When Barret goes home I was like "ah no this is bad I remember this being bad" then it gets to Dyne and I'm like "ahhh, poo poo." I was trying to remember what happened at the end of the original game and the only things I can actually recall are: Sephiroth doing that attack which destroys the solar system (was that the meteor?), the topless sephiroth final, final fight, those green tunnel things and then the red 13 in the future thing. Thinking back on it, did sephiroth actually succeed at the end?
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 15:26
|
|
|
The implication at the time was that sephiroth failed because meteor didnt strike and also he was extremely dead, but Holy may or may not have killed humanity off in the process of protecting the planet, with the ambiguity that Red and other survivors of his kind might have been left as the only sapient life.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 15:29
|
|
|
Prediction: we'll get the whole Supernova animation during the final battle in part 3, but only once as a phase transition
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 15:39
|
|
|
Given how Sephiroth boss fights have gone so far it'll be a OHKO if you don't stagger him (at the end of whittling his health for 20 minutes)
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 15:44
|
|
|
Harrow posted:Prediction: we'll get the whole Supernova animation during the final battle in part 3, but only once as a phase transition Or the whole multi-world thing is literally just an excuse for Sephiroth to use Supernova more than once, wiping out multiple solar systems lol
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 15:51
|
|
|
DeathChicken posted:Given how Sephiroth boss fights have gone so far it'll be a OHKO if you don't stagger him (at the end of whittling his health for 20 minutes)
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 15:53
|
|
|
one of the many weird aspects of the boss fights at the end is that it's supposed to feel consequential when you get hit with all of these 9999 attacks, but reprieve just makes you go "huh?" and use prayer or cure+magnify after the game does a lot of weird stuff in combat at the end it doesn't really explain to you, and i just healed through it. hopefully it's a little better in ff7 redistribution (of capital)
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 16:15
|
|
|
Rascyc posted:complete with selecting the wrong retry option just to finish the experience You go to select the correct retry option, and a miniature Sephiroth descends from the top of the screen and impales it
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 16:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 12:13 |
|
|
Most of my deaths in the final boss fight came when I forgot that Heartless Angel was coming and didn't have any ATB available to heal with before getting hit by follow-up attacks lol
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 16:17
|
|