(Thread IKs:
OwlFancier, crispix)
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Mega Comrade posted:The discussion wasn't if states as a thing should exist though. e: 
Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Apr 2, 2024 |
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Apr 2, 2024 13:22
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OwlFancier posted:I don't think it's an enormously surprising left wing position to say that states are often bad ideas and don't have an intrinsic right to exist, and people probably don't mean that the alternative should be scouring all life off the face of the landmass. e: to clarify - not saying you are going that route f, but that kind of anger directed at Israelis in general can very easily lead to radicalisation. I personally am not sure discussing it dispassionately is a great idea either, given the historical context of the state's ethnic history and the antisemitism witchunt perpetually hounding the left. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Apr 2, 2024 |
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Apr 2, 2024 13:22
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Just for clarity, when I say that Israel has lost its right to exist, I'm not calling for the expulsion of Jewish people. I'm calling for the same as what happened to South Africa when the two-state apartheid fascism ended there,
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Apr 2, 2024 13:23
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Dabir posted:Britain is a country full of people who want the NHS sold off, No, every single time this question gets put to a poll, people say they want the NHS to stay in public hands. The Tories and Labour never explicitly say "we're going to sell off the NHS" for this very reason - it's a vote killer - and sell it off behind closed doors instead. Dabir posted:and Israel is full of people who rock up with deck chairs and popcorn to watch the bombing It's fair to be furious at what the Israel government is doing in Gaza and encouraging in the West Bank, but sweeping statements like these aren't helpful. There were large anti-government demonstrations in Israel over the weekend. There are lots of people there who loving hate what's going on as well.
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Apr 2, 2024 13:25
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kingturnip posted:There were large anti-government demonstrations in Israel over the weekend. There are lots of people there who loving hate what's going on as well. wasn't this principally about extending the draft to the ultra-orthodox community who've historically been exempt from it
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Apr 2, 2024 13:29
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fuctifino posted:Just for clarity, when I say that Israel has lost its right to exist, I'm not calling for the expulsion of Jewish people. I'm calling for the same as what happened to South Africa when the two-state apartheid fascism ended there,
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Apr 2, 2024 13:30
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Israeli politics is very complicated in a lot of ways. Demonstrations usually have multiple factions that want different things in them. Suffice to say that while most Israelis aren't far gone enough to rock up with popcorn to the bombings, the vast majority of Israelis are very, very right wing on most issues.
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Apr 2, 2024 13:36
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Dabir posted:Britain is a country full of people who want the NHS sold off, This is extremely not true, where'd you get this from? Even some of the most rabid tory voters want the NHS free at the point of use (I appreciate there's a distinction between that and selling it off but very few people - tory voters included - want to see private hospitals and private ambulances)
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Apr 2, 2024 13:44
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Yeah NHS is pretty popular tbh. Not met anyone I think ever who has wanted it sold off.
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Apr 2, 2024 13:51
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Nobody wants it sold off but The National Credit Card bill must be settled, so what can the grownups do but sell it.
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Apr 2, 2024 13:54
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Ahhh the magic money tree. The Tories really loved that expression, I kinda miss it. On the subject of NHS I'm contemplating going private, been waiting 8 months now for 2 referrals.
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Apr 2, 2024 13:58
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The problem with Israel is normally when it comes to states deciding to do this stuff they are normally done in states with limited or no democracy. Not only is this policy and supported by the political party in charge they get a lot of support. You could argue that it is an issue with the current policy but they don’t have much opposition to it internally and immigration is easy for those that support the policy. To which where is the main complaint about? Israel as a county, Likud as a political party, Israeli people and support of it.
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Apr 2, 2024 13:58
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Tai posted:Yeah NHS is pretty popular tbh. Not met anyone I think ever who has wanted it sold off. You haven't met the people that matter, MPs and the people they want to sell it off to.
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Apr 2, 2024 14:01
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Mega Comrade posted:The discussion wasn't if states as a thing should exist though. I would suggest that when you see some states very visibly committing atrocities (rather than having committed them in the past or committing them quietly) that should lead you to a general critique of states overall, but I think it's comparatively uncontroversial even for people who aren't willing to go that far, to say that when states become bent on committing horrific crimes against humanity on a daily basis, they have to be somehow dismantled, the government has to go, the structure of the state has to fundamentally change to stop it happening again. They usually phrase this as "regime change" or look to historical examples like south africa or nazi germany, and while most forms of interventionism obviously don't work, the desire to undermine the authority and ability to rule of states considered to be a danger to everybody they come in contact with, is not some unthinkable concept, it's a quite common one. So it's not unusual or weird to say "this state should not exist" it's just that the sentiment is generally couched in specific language or relegated to history. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Apr 2, 2024 |
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Apr 2, 2024 14:03
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FiftySeven posted:
Four things. You also need some kind of PlayStation.
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Apr 2, 2024 14:09
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FiftySeven posted:There are basically 3 things you should never cheap out on in life. Your Bed, Your Shoes, and your Desk Chair. When you think about the amount of time you spend using these things, why wouldnt you want to spend a bit more and get something that wont destroy your body? More reasons not to buy these things online then.
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Apr 2, 2024 14:14
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Pistol_Pete posted:... Didn't know it was closed, it was already on my  list anyways. 
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Apr 2, 2024 14:19
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Microplastics posted:This is extremely not true, where'd you get this from? Even some of the most rabid tory voters want the NHS free at the point of use (I appreciate there's a distinction between that and selling it off but very few people - tory voters included - want to see private hospitals and private ambulances) Since when has what UK voters want had any bearing on what our governments actually do? Also you might want to look up the Ridley Plan.
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Apr 2, 2024 14:23
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Tesseraction posted:Four things. You also need some kind of PlayStation. They said don’t cheap out. Ergo you need a big old PC with lots of RGB flashing lights and poo poo
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Apr 2, 2024 14:30
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xtothez posted:Since when has what UK voters want had any bearing on what our governments actually do? That's not what I'm discussing though. I'm taking exception to the charge that Britain is "full of people who want the NHS sold off" 
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Apr 2, 2024 14:45
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What are the people who think it should be free and available to (almost) everyone but not funded by taxes thinking? Malaysian rubber mines and tin plantations again?
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Apr 2, 2024 14:49
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I'm guessing those people don't understand how insurance works and how the largest possible pool is the best possible choice for cost.
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Apr 2, 2024 14:50
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fuctifino posted:Just for clarity, when I say that Israel has lost its right to exist, I'm not calling for the expulsion of Jewish people. I'm calling for the same as what happened to South Africa when the two-state apartheid fascism ended there, Note that South Africa still exists. So any legal or moral right to existence Israel may or may not have is not contradictory to a similar outcome. Including one that changed the country’s name and had a rather more radical economic restructuring. To actually destroy, render non-existent, a state is something done relatively rarely in the 20C; even the Nazis kept existing states more often than not. The Boer War.is perhaps a relevant reference point.
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Apr 2, 2024 15:01
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They were forced to back down from any claim to SW Africa though, which allowed it to become Namibia, and directly led to R. South Africa changing flag, anthem, voting system, parliamentary structure, legal code, etc. (not necessarily in that order). About the only thing left between that and 'this is a different state' is the name, and only about a dozen people at most care about the Azania debate over things like why the power keeps going off.
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Apr 2, 2024 15:41
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Kinda always felt like letting one specific ethnoreligious group have complete control of Jerusalem was a patently foolish act. Should have made it the loving UN headquarters or something that would force it to be neutral ground.
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Apr 2, 2024 15:45
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Tesseraction posted:Kinda always felt like letting one specific ethnoreligious group have complete control of Jerusalem was a patently foolish act. Should have made it the loving UN headquarters or something that would force it to be neutral ground. Probably, but it needs to be written and codified well, otherwise you get a ladder that nobody can ever move
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Apr 2, 2024 15:48
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They should do that thing like the Christian church where to prevent religious disputes they have local Muslim families hold the keys to it and they maintain strict neutrality.
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Apr 2, 2024 15:54
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Scientastic posted:So the three solutions are: imprison people, despite there being an historically high prison population and historically low space for them, fine people, despite the fact that being homeless tends to mean you don’t have very much money to pay fines, or move people on, which just shifts the “problem” from one location to another, with the added frisson of depriving someone of what little sleep they might have been able to grab. yeah it's going to be the "moving on" part that's used most. if you're sleeping rough you're going to prefer somewhere well lit and with people passing by because that's the place where you're less likely to be assaulted, raped, or god knows what because if someone tries that, someone else is likely to intervene, ring the police, and also people know there's CCTV recording everything that happens in busy shopping areas but you do get monstrous people complaining that they ruin the look of a place without putting any more thought into the situation than that, and they just want them to be shooed into a dark alley somewhere, presumably happy enough for them to be prey to god knows what sick poo poo, embarrassing country
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Apr 2, 2024 15:59
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Failed Imagineer posted:Just imagined typing an email while lying down and my carpals started throbbing 
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Apr 2, 2024 16:10
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No lie I kinda wanna put a monitor on my ceiling for that reason.
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Apr 2, 2024 16:17
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smellmycheese posted:“My time Cosplaying being poor 
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Apr 2, 2024 16:18
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OwlFancier posted:No lie I kinda wanna put a monitor on my ceiling for that reason. This is what cheep projectors are for
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Apr 2, 2024 16:19
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OwlFancier posted:No lie I kinda wanna put a monitor on my ceiling for that reason. I achieve a similar effect using a tablet arm that's clamped to my headboard, and watch netflix in bed that way.
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Apr 2, 2024 16:29
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I'm an American who doesn't really have a good grip on the inner workings of your political system. That being said, I understand that a GE needs to be called pretty soon, and the UK economy is currently going down the toilet. Wouldn't it be better for the Conservatives to hold the GE sooner rather than later and force Labour to have to clean up and possibly gently caress up the recovery? Put the economic woes on them as soon as possible and save the Conservative Brand? Or is Sunak just a selfish bastard who will hold onto power as long as possible no matter what the cost to his party?
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Apr 2, 2024 16:30
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Netflix and gently caress I fell asleep during episode 1 and woke up to massive spoilers in episode 8
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Apr 2, 2024 16:31
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e: ^^^ simply solved by switching off autoplay.Cimber posted:Or is Sunak just a selfish bastard who will hold onto power as long as possible no matter what the cost to his party? This, plus they are greedy. The Tories know that they are finished for at least a generation, maybe forever. So they have up to 8 more months of selling off what's left of the country and writing blank cheques for all their chums to cash offshore. There's plenty more to be squeezed out of the GB sponge yet....
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Apr 2, 2024 16:32
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and passing laws like mandatory beatings for the homeless, knowing that the labour party won't roll them back lest even one bloke with finger tattoos in a flat roof pub say they're big softies
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Apr 2, 2024 16:35
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Cimber posted:I'm an American who doesn't really have a good grip on the inner workings of your political system. That being said, I understand that a GE needs to be called pretty soon, and the UK economy is currently going down the toilet. Wouldn't it be better for the Conservatives to hold the GE sooner rather than later and force Labour to have to clean up and possibly gently caress up the recovery? Put the economic woes on them as soon as possible and save the Conservative Brand? /\ /\ /\ What fuctifino said The charitable interpretation is that they're hoping for a deus ex machina to solve the economy in the meantime, so they can get some credit for it. But when that's the charitable interpretation, you can see why the other view is held
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Apr 2, 2024 16:36
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fuctifino posted:e: ^^^ simply solved by switching off autoplay. From my cold, dead hands!
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Apr 2, 2024 16:36
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crispix posted:and passing laws like mandatory beatings for the homeless, knowing that the labour party won't roll them back lest even one bloke with finger tattoos in a flat roof pub say they're big softies Keith will set up an extensive network of
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Apr 2, 2024 16:46
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