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psydude posted:It was a building adjacent to the consulate that was owned by Iran, so it was probably accommodations for the IRCG officers. What is your source on that? All the major mainstream reporting is stating that it was a consular building, next to the embassy. Not a non-consular building, next to the consulate. https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/01/middleeast/syria-iranian-consulate-attack-middle-east-intl/index.html quote:Syria and Iran blamed Israel for the airstrike that destroyed a consular building, killing Mohammed Reza Zahedi, a top commander in Iran’s elite Revolutionary Guards (IRGC), and several other officials, including another senior commander Mohammad Hadi Haji Rahimi. Israeli officials have not commented on the incident. https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/02/politics/syria-iran-consulate-strike-us/index.html quote:The United States told Iran it was not involved and had no advance knowledge of Monday’s strike on an Iranian consulate in Damascus, Syria, a US official said. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/2/attack-on-iran-consulate-in-damascus-what-do-we-know quote:What happened?
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Apr 2, 2024 15:27
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In checking my history, it looks like it was the Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/04/01/syria-iran-embassy-strike-israel/ But they do mention further down in the article that it was acting as the consulate, which I guess I missed. They also appear to have updated the title to specify it was the consulate (in my history it just alludes to a strike in Damascus). I don't know why you'd have a consulate right next to an embassy, though. psydude fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Apr 2, 2024 |
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Apr 2, 2024 15:42
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mlmp08 posted:I could have been more precise with "generally," but the mission is protected. No, it doesn't mean that once you give up land for an embassy to the sending, they can just hot-swap it for a SAM site or something and go "nuh uh, it's my land now," but striking an embassy or consulate is decidedly different from striking military officials on land that is not associated with a diplomatic mission. Not just generally, embassy and consulate land is still the sovereign territory of the receiving state, in this case Syria. It's not Iranian territory, it has special protections under the Vienna convention and protection of diplomats convention, but that doesn't change whose territory it is. And like I said-- Dopilsya posted:...The premises itself are still supposed to be inviolable, though. M_Gargantua posted:Thats a lot of hairs to split to claim its ok. Did I say it was "ok"? No and don't put words in my mouth. I said consulates aren't sovereign territory of the sending countries, which is correcting a common misconception and that the people reported killed are unlikely to benefit from the specific protections afforded consular staff. I also said the premises of the consulate itself are inviolable, referencing the special protection that the consulate itself receives. I am pointing out what particular legal status I would see as applying in this particular attack. I felt that might be useful, since both my post and the post I was responding to implicated what legal protections is afforded. As it so happens, I don't believe that an attack that merely violates one portion of the protection of diplomats convention (of which Israel is a state signatory) and not other portions is "ok".
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Apr 2, 2024 15:51
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What's the legality of Israel dropping bombs in the middle of Damascus?
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Apr 2, 2024 16:19
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psydude posted:I don't know why you'd have a consulate right next to an embassy, though. The consulate is where a consul works; the consul works for the ambassador and is tasked with the bureaucratic details of the relationship between the countries. Stuff like issuing visas. It's common for an embassy to also have a consular space but there are plenty of examples of them being separated. DC hosts a number of missions where the consulate is in a building blocks away from the embassy. Edited to fix typos. Midjack fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Apr 2, 2024 |
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Apr 2, 2024 16:20
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Stringent posted:What's the legality of Israel dropping bombs in the middle of Damascus? Obvious act of war, but the realities of international politics are that that doesn't matter because what's Syria going to do about it?
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Apr 2, 2024 16:22
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Midjack posted:The consulate is where a consul works; the consul works for three ambassador and is tasked with the bureaucratic details of the relationship between the countries. Stuff like issuing visas. It's common for an embassy to also have a consular space but there are plenty of examples of them being separated. DC hosts a number of missions where there consulate is in a building blocks away from the embassy. Didn't know this, thanks.
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Apr 2, 2024 16:22
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PittTheElder posted:Obvious act of war, but the realities of international politics are that that doesn't matter because what's Syria going to do about it? Sounds like carte blanche for Iran to put warheads on foreheads in Tel-Aviv, if they're so inclined.
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Apr 2, 2024 16:27
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Stringent posted:Sounds like carte blanche for Iran to put warheads on foreheads in Tel-Aviv, if they're so inclined. yeah man totally
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Apr 2, 2024 16:29
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Stringent posted:What's the legality of Israel dropping bombs in the middle of Damascus? PittTheElder posted:Obvious act of war, but the realities of international politics are that that doesn't matter because what's Syria going to do about it? Stringent posted:Sounds like carte blanche for Iran to put warheads on foreheads in Tel-Aviv, if they're so inclined. I think the answer is that it is indeed an act of war in addition to being a violation of treaties that Israel has signed, against both Syria and Iran. Legally they are justified in responding appropriately (by which I mean within the laws of war) as they have the right of self defense. This particular attack isn't "cart blanche", there's still limits on use of force that exists. I think you could make a good argument that the attacks on Iranians (scientists and the like) predating the current attack opens up what would be a justified response on the part of the Iranian govt though.
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Apr 2, 2024 16:45
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Trying to get a better understanding of Middle East power dynamics: Is part of the reason why the U.S. is so sticky in its aid to Israel that Israel is the only nation open to providing a [relatively] reliable major diplomatic/logistical corridor to the region for the U.S.? Gaming things out, what could potentially happen if the U.S. were to, in a hypothetical timeline, drastically reduce its aid to or pull back its support for Israel? (And for this idea, let's put aside the potential domestic electoral repercussions from pro-Israel constituencies.)
Of course, all of this is just food for thought, and I'm sure the way things play out in a hypothetical wouldn't actually play out that way IRL, etc., etc.
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Apr 2, 2024 17:09
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mlmp08 posted:I could have been more precise with "generally," but the mission is protected. No, it doesn't mean that once you give up land for an embassy to the sending, they can just hot-swap it for a SAM site or something and go "nuh uh, it's my land now," but striking an embassy or consulate is decidedly different from striking military officials on land that is not associated with a diplomatic mission. M_Gargantua posted:Thats a lot of hairs to split to claim its ok. Yeah there's exactly zero ambiguity wrt the norms surrounding whether or not you can just blow up consulates. Dopilsya posted:I think the answer is that it is indeed an act of war in addition to being a violation of treaties that Israel has signed, against both Syria and Iran. Legally they are justified in responding appropriately (by which I mean within the laws of war) as they have the right of self defense. Current attack is certainly remarkable as a significant escalation, a significant violation of norms (how much that matters is very hard to quantify tho), and probably most importantly: Iran will absolutely retaliate for it, likely both in the short and long term. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Apr 2, 2024 |
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Apr 2, 2024 18:30
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Stringent posted:What's the legality of Israel dropping bombs in the middle of Damascus? Well, law is something a sovereign state enforces upon its subjects. When it comes to country vs country legality is only relevant in so far as its a mutual allowance. This is a case of Sword Law, ergo, not affected by legality.
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Apr 2, 2024 20:18
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Dopilsya posted:there's still limits on use of force that exists. Not a dig against you personally, but this statement is Liberal Worldview Misconception 101 Instead; There are still potential consequences on the use of force which may be exercised.
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Apr 2, 2024 20:26
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A Meatslab posted:[*]Is U.S. support the only thing preventing another ground invasion of Israel from other countries like Syria? Are modern-day Israeli relations with places like Jordan and Egypt established enough that there is less potential danger to Israel than what the current Israeli government states? I don't have time to do them all so I'll start here: No. There has been significant rapprochement between Israel and the Arab states especially since the Trump led Abraham Accords. It was widely assumed Saudi Arabia would sign a place treaty in the near future. Plenty of people think this motivated Hamas to go for a big attack-- their former allies were all siding with Israel. Syria is part of the Iranian alliance. They're more overtly hostile but generally can't afford a straight war. Syria is only just starting to recover from its brutal war; Israel conducts airstrikes there all the time. If it were to invade Israel it would lose, quickly.
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Apr 2, 2024 20:29
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Count Roland posted:I don't have time to do them all so I'll start here: Got it! I had a sneaking suspicion that Likud, like a lot of far-right parties, is overblowing how much actual danger from invasion Israel is in.
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Apr 2, 2024 21:23
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A Meatslab posted:Trying to get a better understanding of Middle East power dynamics: If you're asking (just in the quoted part above) if Israel is useful as a place to stage military assets, it isn't even particularly/uniquely useful as that. Israel is surrounded by fairly dense and capable air defense networks, so it's not a great idea to fly any stealth aircraft outta there without radar reflectors fitted or at least payload doors open. The regions we've mostly been operating out of for the Global War on Terrain for two decades(before Joe largely declared it Jover) have been better suited for the GWOT's mission for good reasons. It's nice to have a foothold there but Israel isn't supported by the USA BECAUSE it's a regional foothold. I don't think it's helpful to "ignore the electoral consequences" etc of cutting US aid to Israel because the whole matter is inseparable from the reasons we actually provide it. I don't know if I can say the reasons for that part without getting probed.
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Apr 2, 2024 21:47
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A Meatslab posted:Got it! I had a sneaking suspicion that Likud, like a lot of far-right parties, is overblowing how much actual danger from invasion Israel is in. Yeah, that's one of the larger tragedies of the situation from my perspective: lasting, durable security for the chunk of the ethnically-Jewish diaspora living in the state of Israel can be bought for a fairly low price: creation of a genuinely multi-ethnic Israeli state with no second-rate citizenship and no apartheid. That's very unlikely to happen with how far to the right even moderate Israeli political institutions and voters have ratcheted on the matter of one state solutions, which I feel very saddened about.
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Apr 2, 2024 22:00
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As far as I understand it, when Turkey cooperates, it's a much more valuable military/logistical asset in any operations against Middle East targets the US cares about to operate against. You can easily strike against Egypt, Jordan or Saudi Arabia from Israel, which is of no value to the US at all. And the comparatively tiny borders with Lebanon and Syria are also not that useful, as there's little appetite in the USA to strike against those states, especially now that ISIS has mostly been crushed. Basing rights in Jordan or Iraq itself are a lot more valuable.
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Apr 2, 2024 22:04
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US military and diplomatic support for Israel is largely due to US domestic politics and has very little to do with their value as a military or diplomatic partner in the region.
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Apr 2, 2024 22:19
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Gonna reiterate that offing an IRGC-QF commander regardless of collateral damage is a good thing. There’s not really a thing called innocent Iranian government workers in Syria as far as I’m concerned. 
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Apr 2, 2024 23:02
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LtCol J. Krusinski posted:Gonna reiterate that offing an IRGC-QF commander regardless of collateral damage is a good thing. 
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Apr 2, 2024 23:05
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PittTheElder posted:Obvious act of war, but the realities of international politics are that that doesn't matter because what's Syria going to do about it? Let's not forget that Syria and Iran are already basically at war with Israel, and have been for some time. Most of the West just pretends otherwise that because it's convenient to do so. It's not a total war, but it's hotter than a cold war. A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Apr 3, 2024 |
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Apr 2, 2024 23:08
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Just nuke ‘em in a children’s hospital.
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Apr 2, 2024 23:09
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A.o.D. posted:Let's not forget that Syria and Iran are already basically at war with Israel, and have been for some time. Most of the West just pretends tomorrow that because it's convenient to do so. Is that a brushfire war?
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Apr 2, 2024 23:28
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Subjunctive posted:Just nuke ‘em in a children’s hospital. make sure you napalm it first because that one guy really deserves it!!
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Apr 2, 2024 23:30
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psydude posted:US military and diplomatic support for Israel is largely due to US domestic politics and has very little to do with their value as a military or diplomatic partner in the region. I'm convinced it's mostly inertia. Starting out as a Western-aligned island in a sea of Soviet arms clients, and now it's because generations of US policy makers grew up with the association as a given. The crazy Evangelical connection came well after the US had already committed.
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Apr 2, 2024 23:41
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Oh no, won’t someone think of the poor IRGC general and his compatriots.
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Apr 3, 2024 00:17
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LtCol J. Krusinski posted:Oh no, won’t someone think of the poor IRGC general and his compatriots. Consulates - fair game if there's someone you don't like inside. Embassies hate this one weird trick. Not defending Iran here, but if violating sovereign space is now the norm because 'there was a baddy inside' we've set an awful, terrible precedent. And given that Israel is bombing hospitals, refugees, and aid workers, maybe now isn't the time to defend them.
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Apr 3, 2024 01:10
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LtCol J. Krusinski posted:Oh no, won’t someone think of the poor IRGC general and his compatriots. ok, so all the people who worked in that buildong deserved to die because they worked in close proximity to an ircg general? ok bud, the local syrian employees who are definitely doing whatever they can to survive this decade+ civil war deserved to get iced. israel knows how to take out targets with mininal impact, they have most of the tools of the us military has available to them and can definitely produce quality knock-offs of the ones they dont. they chose not to. israel is realizing they are losing international support because of the whole palestinian genocide thing, so theyre swinging their big dick around locally while they still can, to try to maintain their "you cant touch me" status My Spirit Otter fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Apr 3, 2024 |
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Apr 3, 2024 01:47
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It can be cool and good that an IRCG fuckstick is dead, AND that it was a dumb move bombing a consular building. They should've bombed his vehicle or something.
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Apr 3, 2024 02:41
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e: never mind
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Apr 3, 2024 02:47
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Bored As gently caress posted:It can be cool and good that an IRCG fuckstick is dead, AND that it was a dumb move bombing a consular building. They should've bombed his vehicle or something. its not being debated that it was a good thing an iranian general got whacked, what is being contested is that its cool and good no matter the collateral damage, which is a pscyhotic and bloodthirsty statement
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Apr 3, 2024 03:05
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The World Central Kitchen attack had three brits who died. One SBS member and two royal marines, evidently as security. They were also responsible for literally coordinating with the IDF about their vehicle movements. It was no accident. *attacked 3 times in well-labelled vehicles, each time a mile apart as they dragged their injured colleagues from each vehicle as they were bombed one by one. Murdered, deliberately, and targeted three times. Not just 'killed'. Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Apr 3, 2024 |
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Apr 3, 2024 04:09
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Yeah, I saw a picture of the vehicle, and the munition hit smack dab in the middle of the symbol on the roof that indicates it's an aid worker vehicle.
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Apr 3, 2024 04:23
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Yeah, couldn't be a more square hit on the passenger side seat if you tried. Nearly perfectly round hole from a vertical impact dead center over the passenger seat, exactly lined up with the b-pillar. Then twice more in 2.5km, spread out over ~5 minutes because the remaining vehicles would stop, grab the wounded, then move on and get hit again down the road.
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Apr 3, 2024 05:31
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Another round of blatant war crimes to advance a slow-motion genocide; another round of emails to my representatives demanding action to restrain Israel that will vanish into the void 
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Apr 3, 2024 05:37
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I'm told that phone calls to a representative's office will generally be more notable for them and so have more of an impact.
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Apr 3, 2024 05:38
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Even if this won’t go through until 2029, it’s still remarkably lovely that the US is considering selling $18 billion worth of F-15s to Israel, as if they could ever be outgunned by any of their neighbors. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/02/us/politics/biden-israel-weapons-deal.html
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Apr 3, 2024 06:43
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Cugel the Clever posted:Another round of blatant war crimes to advance a slow-motion genocide; another round of emails to my representatives demanding action to restrain Israel that will vanish into the void Maybe they'll answer if you bait and switch about, idk, TikTok drip-feeding your child brain-heroin. pantslesswithwolves posted:Even if this won’t go through until 2029, it’s still remarkably lovely that the US is considering selling $18 billion worth of F-15s to Israel, as if they could ever be outgunned by any of their neighbors. I'm surprised we're exporting any given just how many we critically need to replace F22s just for basic domestic sovereign airspace control. Those will likely be the Israeli E-ish variant, yeah? The paywall kicked in before I could get much farther than the fourth paragraph. Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Apr 3, 2024 |
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Apr 3, 2024 07:13
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