[P/I] This post is for illustrative purposes only and did not actually occur

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [P/I] This post is for illustrative purposes only and did not actually occur

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(Thread IKs: Zodium, John Charity Spring, really queer Christmas)

KORNOLOGY: Aug 9, 2006

It means chill high hitlers

# ? Apr 3, 2024 00:39

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# ? May 23, 2024 16:13

DAD LOST MY IPOD: Feb 3, 2012; Fats Dominar is on the case

this feels like an inflection point - not that the US is going to turn around and stop backing israel, but there have been a lot of little inflection points in this war, which gradually ratcheted us from the 10/8 position of �israel is fully justified in whatever it wants to do� to today�s �well we obviously support israel but there are rules we want to see them follow.� the murder of the WCK people is yet another signpost on the road to Israel�s eventual dismantling.

# ? Apr 3, 2024 00:42

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

this feels like an inflection point - not that the US is going to turn around and stop backing israel, but there have been a lot of little inflection points in this war, which gradually ratcheted us from the 10/8 position of �israel is fully justified in whatever it wants to do� to today�s �well we obviously support israel but there are rules we want to see them follow.� the murder of the WCK people is yet another signpost on the road to Israel�s eventual dismantling.

nah i dont think this is significant the only way israel stops is if someone starts hittinf them hard with extreme sanctions or military and neither are forthcoming at the moment.

# ? Apr 3, 2024 00:46

DAD LOST MY IPOD: Feb 3, 2012; Fats Dominar is on the case

Al-Saqr posted:

nah i dont think this is significant the only way israel stops is if someone starts hittinf them hard with extreme sanctions or military and neither are forthcoming at the moment.

no one thing is going to make israel stop, it�s a cumulation of lots of little things

# ? Apr 3, 2024 00:48

Cactus Ghost: Dec 20, 2003; you can actually inflate your scrote pretty safely with sterile saline, syringes, needles, and aseptic technique. its a niche kink iirc

the saline just slowly gets absorbed into your blood but in the meantime you got a big round smooth distended nutsack

Morbus posted:

It's honestly not hard to rationalize if you have an interest in doing so:

-One imagines that armed drones are routinely launched and loiter around, orbiting a region of interest while awaiting targeting information (this is actually somewhat common for these platforms in the War of Terror). They are routinely armed with inert / limited collateral weapons out of the overwhelming concern for civilian casualties that the most moral army operates with.

-There are lots of deadly dangerous hamas operatives driving around doing deadly dangerous hamas things every day

-Somehow, information regarding one of these "legitimate" targets was oopsie doopsie mixed up with the aid workers' information...perhaps because hamas was insidiously operating in close proximity to aid workers or even disguising themselves as such (human shields!!!)

-From the moment the decision was made to attack the wrong target instead of the right one, everything else proceeded according to plan. A regrettable tragedy

And honestly, who gives a poo poo? Trying to debunk this nonsense is just another iteration of using a highly visible atrocity that is large enough to be conspicuous, but small enough to be dismissed as a cost of war, to take the spotlight away from far worse atrocities i.e. dropping thousands of tons of ordnance on entire city blocks for weeks and months on end, and destroying hospitals.

i mean, yeah armed drones are everywhere, as i'm sure the idf sees dangerous hamas operatives at every corner so some button pusher told by some brass knob to monitor the aid workers goes tee hee i'll monitor them alright and everyone adjacent to or carrying out the manifestly illegal order also doesn't give two shits about the aid workers either and goes "yep good kill nine hamas dead"

and my point is, that's the absolute, most generous, stretching the possibilities interpretation possible here. "murderous psychopaths doing whatever they want while the knobs scrambe to pretend each atrocity was some sort of clerical error and they haven't just completely lost control of their people in some kind of high tech rape of nanjing." its loving insane that no amount of mental gymnasitcs can produce any rational explanation less hosed up than that. that's the kindest, gentlest interpretation. and they're still probably going to get away with it. what the gently caress

Cactus Ghost has issued a correction as of 00:57 on Apr 3, 2024

# ? Apr 3, 2024 00:55

TeenageArchipelago: Jul 23, 2013

Rip Testes posted:

Hareez is reporting that commanders out in the field operate on their own and that's where the blameshift is presently going - some rogue commander interpreting the rules of war their own way. This seems to be moving towards trying to pin the strike on a single soldier, but this was a drone strike and I would imagine there is a a command structure involved in conducting a drone strike, that this is not something a single rogue drone operator could execute. Any drone operators want to weigh in?

You won't get me that easily

e: gently caress

# ? Apr 3, 2024 01:15

Doktor Avalanche: Dec 30, 2008

DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

no one thing is going to make israel stop, it�s a cumulation of lots of little things

they're a crucial ally of the global hegemon, south africa never had that kind of relationship with the US

# ? Apr 3, 2024 01:15

post hole digger: Mar 21, 2011

Rip Testes posted:

Hareez is reporting that commanders out in the field operate on their own and that's where the blameshift is presently going - some rogue commander interpreting the rules of war their own way. This seems to be moving towards trying to pin the strike on a single soldier, but this was a drone strike and I would imagine there is a a command structure involved in conducting a drone strike, that this is not something a single rogue drone operator could execute. Any drone operators want to weigh in?

the battery in his controller died

# ? Apr 3, 2024 01:19

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/HeidiBachram/status/1775226986249486370?t=5M2DFp_OZY63s0Imru8Lgw&s=19

Hell yeah

# ? Apr 3, 2024 01:19

Stereotype: Apr 24, 2010; College Slice

Dreylad posted:

also sorry if someone else asked this and I missed it but how come these aid workers are beyond the pale? haven't dozens if not hundreds of aid workers, and not just palestinians, been killed already?

most people don�t know or care about it still

# ? Apr 3, 2024 01:20

Clip-On Fedora: Feb 20, 2011

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/HeidiBachram/status/1775226986249486370?t=5M2DFp_OZY63s0Imru8Lgw&s=19

Hell yeah

Yeah Heidi why don�t you go yodel about it some more

# ? Apr 3, 2024 01:22

apatheticman: May 13, 2003; Wedge Regret

Clip-On Fedora posted:

Yeah Heidi why don�t you go yodel about it some more

Another case of wild rear end "everyone is mad at me so I must be right" posting.

Their minds are broken.

There is no recovery.

# ? Apr 3, 2024 01:40

Weka: May 5, 2019; Can't post for 11 hours!

Harik posted:

this thread is about a modern genocidal state where the best possible position any citizen has adopted is "maybe we shouldn't be so wantonly cruel in our extermination campaign"

or "can you motherfuckers stop bombing long enough to rescue my husband? (then bomb them in retaliation for taking him kthx)"

You must of missed the videos of people burning Israeli flags whilst waving Palestinian flags and having punch ups with the cops.

ughhhh posted:

It's an attempt at creating white helmets in Palestine. Except that Gaza already has a functioning and popular civil government/society headed by Hamas.

Yeah, but I see striking WCK as part of that. Now that no regular aid orgs want to work there I guess it is just the dudes who will be using America's pier. UAE military?

# ? Apr 3, 2024 01:45

National Parks: Apr 6, 2016

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/HeidiBachram/status/1775226986249486370?t=5M2DFp_OZY63s0Imru8Lgw&s=19

Hell yeah

You're describing then coolest old guy ever, nerd

# ? Apr 3, 2024 01:51

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.

DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

this feels like an inflection point

it wont be

# ? Apr 3, 2024 01:51

Orbs: Apr 1, 2009; ~Liberation~

post hole digger posted:

the battery in his controller died

The controller was the same kind the billionaire submarine that imploded used

# ? Apr 3, 2024 01:54

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

Dreylad posted:

also sorry if someone else asked this and I missed it but how come these aid workers are beyond the pale? haven't dozens if not hundreds of aid workers, and not just palestinians, been killed already?

white people died.

# ? Apr 3, 2024 01:57

RadiRoot: Feb 3, 2007

crepeface posted:

white people died.

oh drat they for sure have to ceasefire now.

media is probably trying to find pics of them at their most tanned.

# ? Apr 3, 2024 02:01

OctaMurk: Jun 21, 2013

Al-Saqr posted:

nah i dont think this is significant the only way israel stops is if someone starts hittinf them hard with extreme sanctions or military and neither are forthcoming at the moment.

Imo israel would stop if america stopped sending them weapons. Really, thats the only thing that keeps this poo poo going -- israel simply doesnt have the arms industry to keep genociding at this scale, and america is the only nation willing to send them poo poo that can make enoigh to keep the genocide going.

Without endless 2000lb bombs from America, the israeli defense forces would be useless

# ? Apr 3, 2024 02:06

smug jeebus: Oct 26, 2008

Based bird also standing with Hamas
https://packaged-media.redd.it/ci6r...7b2b42982f7#t=0

# ? Apr 3, 2024 02:07

apatheticman: May 13, 2003; Wedge Regret

One of the most insane statements from the start of this is Isreal constantly saying hamas is using civilians as human shields then like, taking the shot anyways.

That argument is usually screamed by frustrated snipers in fiction to explain why they didn't take the shot.

Not genocide apologists when they're asked a question that isn't the most appeasing softball poo poo you've heard in your life.

But now they killed the white people delivering aid as the 4th tier best alternative to an actual coordinated UN effort to distribute aid.

# ? Apr 3, 2024 02:09

Hatebag: Jun 17, 2008

DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

this feels like an inflection point - not that the US is going to turn around and stop backing israel, but there have been a lot of little inflection points in this war, which gradually ratcheted us from the 10/8 position of “israel is fully justified in whatever it wants to do” to today’s “well we obviously support israel but there are rules we want to see them follow.” the murder of the WCK people is yet another signpost on the road to Israel’s eventual dismantling.

i doubt it. a bunch of aid workers/spies being murdered doesn't change the fact that most of the elected federal government positions in the us are bribed or blackmailed by israel and the weapons manufacturers. and the weapons manufacturers benefit greatly in the short term from this genocide and public opinion is irrelevant

# ? Apr 3, 2024 02:10

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

apatheticman posted:

One of the most insane statements from the start of this is Isreal constantly saying hamas is using civilians as human shields then like, taking the shot anyways.

That argument is usually screamed by frustrated snipers in fiction to explain why they didn't take the shot.

Not genocide apologists when they're asked a question that isn't the most appeasing softball poo poo you've heard in your life.

But now they killed the white people delivering aid as the 4th tier best alternative to an actual coordinated UN effort to distribute aid.

Yeah it's like, is potentially killing one gunman worth also killing a half dozen aid workers at the same time, even if you're completely on their side? (Trick question: if you're on the Israeli side you probably want to kill all the aid workers too)

# ? Apr 3, 2024 02:17

Orbs: Apr 1, 2009; ~Liberation~

Settlers - The Mythology of the White Proletariat from Mayflower to Modern was written back in the 80s, with a 4th edition in 2014. The section on Zionism is relatively short, but makes some very relevant points. Definitely agrees and reinforces much of what other sources I've seen in this thread and elsewhere have been saying.

J. Sakai - Settlers posted:

The connection between Euro-Amerikan settlerism and Zionist settlerism - twin servants of imperialism - is shown in all the recent reactionary political developments within the U.S. Jewish communities. Repeated propaganda about the Holocaust is used as fascistic indoctrination, to whip up a belligerent sentimentality that both justifies Euro-Amerikans as victims ("no more guilt trips about racism") and powers new terroristic attacks on colonial peoples. The same ultra-Orthodox Zionist elements are killing Afrikan youth in Brooklyn and shooting Palestinian youth on the West Bank. Now even the anti-Semitic bigots of the Moral Majority recognize the Zionists as their "kith and kin."

This Zionist example has stirred many of the Russian Jewry, and brought some 175,000 of them here to become settlers in the "New World." Again we can see how the division of the world into oppressed nations pervades all relations and events. The Russian Jewish immigration is not like the Puerto Rican immigration, for example, which is the forced dislocation of a colonial people in search of employment. In contrast, the Russian Jewry come as more reinforcements for the U.S. oppressor nation; come not for survival or bread, but for the rich, privileged lifestyle of settlerism. Beneath the propaganda, this is all very evident. A recent New York Times report from Russia's Jewish "human rights" underground is revealing:

'About 30 Moscow Jews and a few Westerners gathered in a private apartment recently to mark Purim with poetry and amateur theatricals. The players shifted easily from Russian to Hebrew, and some members of the hopelessly cramped audience joined in the songs. Even the children readily recognized Queen Esther and the other characters in the ancient legend of how Persian Jews triumphed over a devious plot to massacre them by the wicked Haman, done up for the evening as a Palestinian guerrilla... The Six-Day War of 1967 is generally recognized as a turning point in the self-esteem of Russian Jews and in their identification with Israel. "There was a sense of colossal national rehabilitation," recalled Naum Meiman, a 72-year old physicist and human rights activist. (20)'

We see the same pattern - how the conquering and killing of Arabs, Afrikans, etc. is felt by Zionist settlers as therapeutic "rehabilitation," restoring them to European dimensions. This is the same virile restoration through mass murder that was so ecstatically praised by Adolf Hitler.

Jews do face an entrenched anti-semitism, which in Russia definitely makes them "second-class citizens," restricts advancement into upper management, and limits religious and cultural expression (such as the "human rights" get-together described). About 30% of the Russian Jewish immigrants here are university graduates. One such family are the Resnikovs, interviewed in Forest Hills, N.Y.:

"Russia was a beautiful country. But not for us," said Mrs. Resnikov, a brief sorrow in her huge dark eyes. She was a technician in an electronics plant and her husband, a squarely built man of 42, was a construction engineer. "Higher I couldn't go in Russia - a Jew for them is an enemy," he said ... Now, after four years here, Mr. Resnikov is impatient with "working like a worker" in his $6.50-an-hour job as a roofer but has found nothing better... "We live nice," he said, "but we didn't live bad in Kiev or Haifa. I would like to have my own American business..." (21)
Some two-thirds of all Russian Jewish emigrants have come to the U.S. rather than Israel. A survey for the council of Jewish Federations found that in 1981 the median family income of these new settlers was $19,632; other surveys have found that less than 1%, mostly the elderly, have to stay on welfare. (22)

Coming from thousands of miles away, often speaking no English, their new citizenship in the U.S. oppressor nation gives them an instant lifestyle above the colonial world.

smug jeebus posted:

Based bird also standing with Hamas
https://packaged-media.redd.it/ci6r...7b2b42982f7#t=0

Hell yeah, thank you for taking a stand bird :lovebird:

# ? Apr 3, 2024 02:18

carcinofuck: Apr 18, 2001; pink floyd still sucks

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

I was just thinking that this is how, I suppose you would say liberal, historians have tried to make sense of Japanese War Crimes since the 2010's.

...

*mashes like button*

# ? Apr 3, 2024 02:25

Thoguh: Nov 8, 2002; College Slice

StashAugustine posted:

Yeah it's like, is potentially killing one gunman worth also killing a half dozen aid workers at the same time, even if you're completely on their side? (Trick question: if you're on the Israeli side you probably want to kill all the aid workers too)

Even if you take the Israelis at their word and believe that they did it to take out a Hamas guy it�s still the act of a rabid state. Even their lies are still admissions of intentional crimes.

# ? Apr 3, 2024 02:27

Thoguh: Nov 8, 2002; College Slice

DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

this feels like an inflection point - not that the US is going to turn around and stop backing israel, but there have been a lot of little inflection points in this war, which gradually ratcheted us from the 10/8 position of �israel is fully justified in whatever it wants to do� to today�s �well we obviously support israel but there are rules we want to see them follow.� the murder of the WCK people is yet another signpost on the road to Israel�s eventual dismantling.

Gotta wait until tomorrow and see if the tone of reporting is still showing cracks like it was today or if everyone gets their marching orders and it�s back to business as usual.

# ? Apr 3, 2024 02:29

CLAM DOWN: Feb 13, 2007

smug jeebus posted:

Based bird also standing with Hamas
https://packaged-media.redd.it/ci6r...7b2b42982f7#t=0

birds rule

# ? Apr 3, 2024 02:29

F_Shit_Fitzgerald: Feb 2, 2017

Thoguh posted:

Gotta wait until tomorrow and see if the tone of reporting is still showing cracks like it was today or if everyone gets their marching orders and it�s back to business as usual.

100% business as usual.

# ? Apr 3, 2024 02:32

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

quoting this good long post for the new page.

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

I was just thinking that this is how, I suppose you would say liberal, historians have tried to make sense of Japanese War Crimes since the 2010's.

I'll try to explain the debate. The Tokyo Trials, as you may know, were not a success compared to Nuremberg. Neither was the prosecution of low level Japanese war criminals generally. I realize 90% of this was the result of anti-communism and needing Japan onboard, particularly after the Korean War started. It's still the case now, because the PRC is still there.

However, letting people skate also extended to soldiers who had killed Allied POWs and this caused a lot of postwar anger in the USA and Australia. Canada too because of Hong Kong, but Canadians were more mad that Kurt Meyer and 12th SS walked. The Japanese killed, I don't even know how many, Allied POWs, either taken during the "year of victory", 1942, or aircrew shot down throughout the war. They tortured, starved, abused many more. In the postwar imagination, the Japanese were gleeful and savage while committing crimes, as opposed to the buttoned down Nazis, befel ist befel and all. Also, because the Allies did pretty much everything the Japanese did, they were less willing to make these huge cases of international law like the German trials. Sort of like how Donitz skated on unrestricted submarine warfare, but applying to things like "take no prisoners" orders.

Anyway, a lot of the postwar understanding of the Japanese crimes was tied up in racism, and then after the 60's or so, a myth of bushido and the samurai code.

The problem is as history got more methodical in approaching Imperial Japan, explanations of their crimes as "oriental cruelty" and "the way of the samurai" were unsustainable. A key issue was, unlike the Nazis, the Japanese almost never had direct orders, or standing policy, for criminal behaviour. Yes, this interpretation was also useful for making sure the Emperor could stay in power. It was society wide though, because the Nuremberg Trials created the precedent of Criminal Organizations, yet we needed a lot of the Japanese state to carry over, both in the Home Islands and in South Korea. Part of the issue was also racial stereotype. The Germans must be organized, efficient, following orders, so evidence of that must be found, but there was less incentive to look for or interpret evidence that way when it came to Japan because they weren't perceived that way. It was unnatural for Germans to kill prisoners, whereas for Asiatics, well, what can you say? Life is cheap in the Orient.

Still, problems with the history aside, there is hardly any direct, written, evidence for Japanese officers ever ordering prisoners to be killed. Getting eyewitness testimony of verbal orders, or even just the crimes and establishing who was in charge, was useful for POW trials, so no paperwork required. There was no real interest in following up on Japanese crimes in China (the overwhelming majority of them) after the communists won the civil war, so no need to search for written orders there either. That "methodology" explained individual incidents, but without a smoking gun of policy papers, which the Germans left everywhere, it was harder to explain why criminal behaviour was not just widespread, but so common as if it had been policy. As I said, racial and cultural explanations were fine from 1945 to at least the 60's and 70's, but these were incompatible with studying the IJA and IJN as institutions filled with human beings and not bucktoothed bloodthirsty maniacs in straw hats or inscrutable products of an alien culture.

Institutional analysis of the Japanese military, hit a wall in the cultural explanation right off the bat. It had been modelled on European militaries during the Meiji Restoration, was universally agreed to be excellent until about 1930, and had won worldwide renown for how well it treated (Russian) prisoners in the Russo Japanese War. There were mountains and mountains of carefully detailed orders for the good treatment of prisoners from both the Russo-Japanese War and First World War (Japan had fought over Germany's far east possessions). There were detailed policy papers on the treatment of prisoners, construction and inspection of POW camps, etc etc. Clearly it didn't make sense for an institution to regress from a disciplined army that prepared and disseminated detailed orders for the care of prisoners to samurai in borrowed European clothes who had never heard of "prisoners", only the way of bushido.

There was another round of debate in the 90's where Japanese historians started floating the idea of "reverse racism",where shabby treatment by Europeans enraged the Japanese, and that's why they acted the way they did, but this has a lot of problems I don't really want to get into. It makes sense for that to be the Japanese historical establishment's position, and for Japanese historians to interpret evidence that way, it suits the Japanese government, but it doesn't track with the treatment of Malay, Indonesian, Indian, obviously Chinese, POWs. Also, there had been no real incident between 1919 and 1941 that would so aggrieve the average Japanese person that they went crazy with rage over national honour or European racism. Obviously there were issues in inter-war diplomacy, and 20th century Europeans, even diplomats, were racist, but this is more of a nation adopting a defence of "temporary insanity" than anything that has merit imo.

In the 2000's a bunch of western liberal historians, in my opinion, got suckered in and started defending Japanese actions using the language of decolonization and liberation struggle, white supremacy, racism etc. but again, unlike the Algerians or Vietnamese, they had never been on the receiving end of an escalating cycle of brutalization by Europeans, so this explanation is just as tied up with trends in the western academy as the Japanese school is in theirs.

To tie this all together, in the 2010's an explanation gained consensus that, so far as I know, is still the dominant one. The Japanese did not have a top down policy to commit war crimes. Neither were orders issued for war crimes. They were not predetermined to participate in them either by their race, or by being the victims of European racism. There was no cultural cause, and no institutional cause - per se. Rather, Japanese war crimes were the result of what didn't happen rather than what did.

The Japanese civilian government, after all of those assassinations in the 1920's, junior army officers starting their own wars in China etc. decided to stop exercising authority over the military. Senior, then mid-level, Japanese military officers selectively stopped exercising authority in certain areas as the 1930's went on. Japanese military discipline was fearsome with absolute savage beatings and humiliations over the smallest infractions. During the war in China, however, Japanese field grade officers stopped trying to rein their frustrated men in when it came to civilians and POWs. They didn't have to order any crimes to be committed, but they made it very obvious that they were not going to order that any not be. This went all the way up to army high command and cabinet.

So, Japanese soldiers were disciplined, I think anyone who has heard the stories of the IJA marching 30km through jungle on a cup of rice a day knows that, but the absence of discipline when it came to the treatment of civilians and POWs had an inevitable, predictable, result. Even though there was no smoking gun, or explicit and direct order to commit specific crimes, there didn't need to be. The absence of orders on the subject spoke loudly enough. Soldiers were left to their own initiative, which in a brutal, frustrating, war, was obviously going to be what it was.

I agree with the historical explanation, generally.

What I don't agree with, I'll try to tie this to my complaint about liberalism and Israel here, is that I don't think this is exculpatory, and I resent that in these debates it is often treated that way.

Not prohibiting soldiers under your command from doing something, which is well within your power to do is pretty much the same as ordering them to do it, right? The Japanese were enforcing grooming and uniform regulations while cut off in the jungle, but had a total breakdown of discipline whenever they happened to take prisoners? You can talk about poor discipline, but if you are turning on and off that tap, selectively, you can't treat it like a force of nature. If it's not a force of nature, someone is responsible. It does not let anyone off the hook, in my opinion, that there was a deliberate, conspicuous, absence of orders. Why the absence of orders is seen as morally exculpable is the crux of my problem with liberalism here, so I'll try to connect past and present.

If your subordinate captures 400 prisoners, and you provide rations for 200, or tell a patrol they need to travel over some great distance on a schedule, when they are responsible for stretcherborne POWs, without providing any transportation, what do you think is going to happen? If you know it is going to happen, and created circumstances where it will happen, why do you need to order it to happen to be morally responsible? Or, put another other way, using the logic of an "invisible hand" to evade guilt is a pretty big problem.

So when liberal historians say "actually, the Japanese were rational human beings and not Dr Seuss cartoons", they're correct.
When they say "the Japanese issued no orders to commit crime xyz", they're correct.
When they say "the Japanese military was efficient, organized, disciplined" they're correct too.
When they say "therefore nobody was really responsible", I have a problem.

and I think, basically, this is how liberals talk about all sorts of heinous things. If it isn't ordered, in plain language, explicitly, cause, effect, intention all spelled out, it doesn't register for them. A government choosing to do something can be clearly morally evaluated. Government policy was Y, so the consequences of Y were the government's fault. However, different forms of disaster and immiseration "just happen". There is no memo saying "by the way, we can enact Aktion T4 and exterminate undesirables". Instead, healthcare is cut, while "totally unrelated", MAiD becomes available. People choose, rationally, individually, given the circumstances, and the circumstances are outside anyone's control - after all, even if someone directly ordered that these circumstances be created, they didn't directly order the consequences, and are free from guilt.

Japanese soldiers, just were going to kill prisoners, so we shouldn't interpret the lack of orders preventing that as a state or military level choice. It was just individual soldiers being naughty boys. The state is therefore innocent, we don't have to make a fuss about the Yasukuni Shrine.

Liberalism, I hope I'm not abusing the term, seems to always play this little game. As Atwater said,

"Now, you�re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you�re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.� �We want to cut this,� is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than..."

Israel is always let off the hook because individual soldiers are not ordered to kill civilians, and units are not ordered to destroy hospitals. They simply don't receive orders not to, but to liberals, somehow, that makes the people responsible innocent.

# ? Apr 3, 2024 02:34

Leandros: Dec 14, 2008

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/HeidiBachram/status/1775226986249486370?t=5M2DFp_OZY63s0Imru8Lgw&s=19

Hell yeah

I've seen a fair amount of people wearing Keffiyeh and damnit it always looks good on them. Magical cloth

# ? Apr 3, 2024 02:37

Clip-On Fedora: Feb 20, 2011

F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:

100% business as usual.

Yeah. The frog is absolutely determined to give its best friend the scorpion a ride across the river on his back, and nothing is going to change its mind.

What I see here is more evidence that Israel will be the graveyard of the American Empire.

# ? Apr 3, 2024 02:41

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

Orbs posted:

Quoting Settlers - The Mythology of the White Proletariat from Mayflower to Modern

Nixon (muttering) Jesus Christ...

# ? Apr 3, 2024 02:42

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

crepeface posted:

quoting this good long post for the new page.

Thanks crepe for reposting this (and the author for writing it). Excellent perspective.

# ? Apr 3, 2024 02:44

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

gradenko_2000 posted:

Hell yeah

# ? Apr 3, 2024 02:45

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

Oh for sure that organization is a cut-out for western intelligence, like all NGOs, but that's all the more reason why it would have been prudent for Israel not to have struck it.

this entire genocide has been about israel testing the limits of rules based geopolitics. I fundamentally think that the logic of a lot of liberal institutions can only interface with other state institutions. like they expect everything to operate in a certain way and israel is happily breaking protocol and a lot of these state orgs and institutions can't imagine anyone not playing by the rules.

# ? Apr 3, 2024 02:50

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

Maybe I'm optimistic, but I'm seeing lines crossed that I never would have at the start of this.

Like we started with Zionists bosses scanning emails for people to fire, then had universities expelling people over those MISSING posters. The doxx truck, etc.

But that personal level of "Support Israel ...or else", is pretty much done. now we've got A-List celebrities unafraid.

The cool older guy tells the court he stands with Hamas and gets a ticket for being awesome instead of tarred as an antisemite.

The social cost for not "standing with Israel" no longer exists, and without that obligation? Israel should be gone within a generation.

I don't know if many Palestinians have that long though.

# ? Apr 3, 2024 02:52

fuctifino: Jun 11, 2001

The BBC has the murder of the three brits as the main article on the UK news site. What's curious is that the article doesn't mention Solace Global, nor that they are ex special forces

quote:

John Chapman, James Henderson and James Kirby were among the seven World Central Kitchen workers killed in Monday's strike, the BBC has learned.

That's the only time the people are mentioned, with the rest of the article being filler waffle.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68711832

# ? Apr 3, 2024 02:56

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

gradenko_2000 posted:

Thanks crepe for reposting this (and the author for writing it). Excellent perspective.

always like to highlight interesting posts. here's another that requires immediate action

Preen Dog posted:

Everyone in the pt is either hostile to Israel's interests (understandably), will become hostile (would be weird if they didn't), or provides aid to someone who is (unavoidable if not a hermit).

It is customary to call someone who attacks your interests from a position of weakness a terrorist (or vandal, savage, vermin, criminal, gangster, w/e).

To an Israeli, the blanket labelling of Palestinians as terrorists makes total sense, and farcical that outsiders deny such an obvious fact. Imagine if someone were throwing rocks at you in your H3, in a crowd that is cheering that person on. Of course you can call them names and run them over.

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# ? Apr 3, 2024 02:57

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# ? May 23, 2024 16:13

BrotherJayne: Nov 28, 2019

paul_soccer12 posted:

everyone in the idf must die

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# ? Apr 3, 2024 03:04

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [P/I] This post is for illustrative purposes only and did not actually occur

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