|
Jehde posted:That's 1 more than Shogun so far. We'll see how the last 2 shape up though. Can you send me what you're smoking? I've been feeling way too positive about things lately.
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 13:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 20:33 |
|
|
The fact that I am struggling to decide which episode is supposedly the only great one.
Nice Tuckpointing! fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Apr 13, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 15:01
|
|
|
Jehde posted:That's 1 more than Shogun so far. We'll see how the last 2 shape up though. No matter how good a show or movie is some goon comes in the thread to say it's garbage.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 16:44
|
|
|
Nice Tuckpointing! posted:The fact that I am struggling to decide which episode is supposedly the only great one. Cannonball episode with mushy samurai
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 16:55
|
|
|
yeah, the cannon thing was the biggest "holy poo poo" moment of the entire show.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 17:55
|
|
|
The latest episode and its corresponding podcast episode have me worried a bit with how Blackthorne's arc is going. On the one hand, I do like the oafy barbarian schtick, but it'd be nice to have this also come with some achievement and growth. Blackthorne has now been isolated and sidelined by Toranaga, and rejected by his old shipmates. In the podcast, the writers talk about how the scene in which Yabu rejects Blackthorne's offer was intended to reflect the more common reality of being a stranger in a strange land, and that Blackthorne is realizing that he has no home. Maybe the next two episodes will remedy this sinking feeling, but for now, writers, what the hell are you doing to the book's main character? I mean, it's fine to have a character arc in which the outsider never fully fits in, because that's just what is. However, one of the charms of the original story is how resilient Blackthorne is and how he's always trying to make the best of the situation he's in -- and makes a huge effort to integrate into Japanese society. Plus, the real William Adams did pretty much that. I'm not saying we have to have the super-special foreigner teach the Japan's what's what, but c'mon, give Blackthorne a moment to impress. Nice Tuckpointing! fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Apr 13, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 18:49
|
|
|
Maybe they're leaning away from his character being the identity of the viewpoint so much that they kind of just turned him into a sideline reporter. I don't like it but I can see a studio being scared of getting anywhere close to Blackthorne: White Savior
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 20:05
|
|
|
A friend and I started watching Fallout and man. Its okay, which is a compliment because I figured it would be unrepentant trash. But its severely lacking the cinematic artistry of this show, which is an absence I'm afraid I'm gonna notice in a lot of shows from here on out. The two things that really stand out to me, in comparison, are the mise-en-scene and cinematography. In Shogun the mise-en-scene is exquisite and immersive, plopping you right into 17th century Japan. The costumes are intricate and worn well, the sets feel like actual places that exists beyond the confines of the frame. In Fallout the mise-en-scene is present, and perhaps even dominating because they're trying really hard to translate a cartoony video game to the screen, but it fails to convey a sense of place. The colors of everything are bright and saturated, which normally I'm in favor of in contrast to color filters and desaturating everything (something Shogun is guilty of), but nothing is done with it. They are just bright colors for the sake of bright colors, because the vault suit blues really contrasted against the desert brown in the games. It makes the show look and feel like a cartoon, which I'm sure is part of it's goal and in that regard they succeed, but it ultimately feels to me like watching kids play with action figures. As for cinematography, Shogun masterfully captures any given scene using the camera and blocking to tell an emotional story in parallel to the textual one. Some examples that really stood out to me being the scene with Blackthorne and Mariko in the tea house, and Mariko with Buntaro during the tea ceremony. Both of those scenes are relatively low key but simultaneously seizes you by the eyeballs and instructs you on how the characters are feeling using nothing but superb framing and subtle camera movement. Fallout, meanwhile, is flat as gently caress and blocked like a commercial most of the time. It feels like the only concern of their cinematographer is capturing coverage and making sure everyone is in frame. It's like watching Bob Ross render beauty out of nothing with clever brush strokes and tool use with the effortless ease of a master vs one of those spray paint boardwalk artists that render quaint little celestial scenes by using pans as stencils.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 20:18
|
|
|
I believe Toranaga has a plan, but I also believed the Cylons had a plan, so I may just be a sweetly trusting fool
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 23:56
|
|
|
Every time someone incredibly wealthy is onscreen and the front of their garment is displaying like five or six different layers of silks I'm like "ooh" And then there's Blackthorne wearing his poo poo like a bathrobe
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 02:31
|
|
|
Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:I believe Toranaga has a plan, but I also believed the Cylons had a plan, so I may just be a sweetly trusting fool Cylons are jesuits
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 04:20
|
|
|
Mauser posted:Cylons are jesuits They do talk a lot about the existence of a single God.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 05:05
|
|
|
I find it funny that even among all his scheming and plotting, Toranaga still had time to troll the jesuits.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 09:42
|
|
|
Speaking of which, I’m curious to know where the red light district and church is supposed to be in present day Tokyo. It looks like some mudflats which are all along the bay there.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 10:07
|
|
|
Christianity gets banned in Japan within a generation.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 10:09
|
|
|
Dr.Radical posted:Speaking of which, I’m curious to know where the red light district and church is supposed to be in present day Tokyo. It looks like some mudflats which are all along the bay there. Historically, I believe the red light district is supposed to be Yoshiwara, and was originally founded near modern-day Nihonbashi in Tokyo; it was moved in 1656 to a location north of Asakusa, roughly corresponding to Senzoku 4-Chōme in Taitō-ku, with the old location burning down the following year, along with most of the city.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 11:04
|
|
|
Dr.Radical posted:Speaking of which, I’m curious to know where the red light district and church is supposed to be in present day Tokyo. It looks like some mudflats which are all along the bay there. have you seen the martin scorsese movie, silence
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 12:07
|
|
|
Does the whole Macao thing they mentioned earlier in the season come into play at all?
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 13:05
|
|
|
BoldFace posted:Does the whole Macao thing they mentioned earlier in the season come into play at all? It already did (but may again, depending on where everything settles by the end of this war): it was the reveal that the Portuguese are taking converted Japanese Christians (I presume samurai, but if not then they're training civilians) out of the country and using them as their own personal army, loyal to the Church and a foreign power rather than Japan or any Japanese Lord. That's a pretty huge loving deal and demonstrates that the unease some have had over the growing influence of the Church is pretty warranted, especially as at least 3 of the Regents at the start of the show were under the Church's influence to some degree.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 13:27
|
|
|
There was something intresting I realized with Blackthorne and the Portuguese. He's adapting, he's learning not just the language but the customs. He dresses Japanese, eats their food and has taken a part in their social structure. The Portoguese, they still live as Europeans. They wear their somber black clothing, they live in European settings, eat European food in a European way. They just burst in and assume the Japanese will just completely change their way to doing things. I mean that's a very early modern catholic way of thinking; no, its everyone else that's wrong.Tankbuster posted:Christianity gets banned in Japan within a generation. I hope Mariko gives it up before she's boiled alive by being thrown into a thermal vent
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 20:56
|
|
|
Something jumped out at me during Mariko & Toranaga's freestyle battle: If I could use words like scattering flowers and falling leaves, what a bonfire my poems would make. Seems like one of the writers is a Spike Milligan fan. If I could write words Like leaves on an autumn forest floor, What a bonfire my letters would make. If I could speak words of water, You would drown when I said "I love you." https://allpoetry.com/If-I-Could-Write-Words
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 21:37
|
|
|
HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:have you seen the martin scorsese movie, silence You know what I meant, goofus
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 22:17
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:The Portoguese, they still live as Europeans. They wear their somber black clothing, they live in European settings, eat European food in a European way. They just burst in and assume the Japanese will just completely change their way to doing things. I mean that's a very early modern catholic way of thinking; no, its everyone else that's wrong. This seems ahistorical to me, since 1600 is still well within the era of Jesuit missionaries who were willing to use the local customs to gain access and influence in East Asia and highly educated and good at what they did. It's the 1700s when the Jesuits are being banned from European colonial missions for being too wealthy, too educated and too native.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 00:52
|
|
|
Yeah portuguese had a nasty habit of going native in less restrictive polities than feudal japan.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 00:57
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:This seems ahistorical to me, since 1600 is still well within the era of Jesuit missionaries who were willing to use the local customs to gain access and influence in East Asia and highly educated and good at what they did. It's the 1700s when the Jesuits are being banned from European colonial missions for being too wealthy, too educated and too native. Japan just got a head start on it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 00:58
|
|
|
These Japanese guys seem a bit dour and repressed. Buntaro seems confused about his relationship with his wife. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Apr 15, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 03:33
|
|
|
Buntaro got that unaddressed PTSD from slaughtering his way across Korea.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 04:27
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:This seems ahistorical to me, since 1600 is still well within the era of Jesuit missionaries who were willing to use the local customs to gain access and influence in East Asia and highly educated and good at what they did. It's the 1700s when the Jesuits are being banned from European colonial missions for being too wealthy, too educated and too native. Yea, within the story is works but its not historical. I mean Cavell changes names for a new reasons, not only because he thought Tokugawa would be hard to pronounce, but somehow Torinaga is? It lets him do stuff that isn't historically accurate.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 05:08
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:Yea, within the story is works but its not historical. I mean Cavell changes names for a new reasons, not only because he thought Tokugawa would be hard to pronounce, but somehow Torinaga is? It lets him do stuff that isn't historically accurate. People have been pronouncing Japanese names wrong since about 1600. Don't assume we are capable of figuring it out without it being dumbed down.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 05:27
|
|
|
Nice Tuckpointing! posted:The latest episode and its corresponding podcast episode have me worried a bit with how Blackthorne's arc is going. I do have concerns about how the ending is going to land considering a lot of the foundation supporting it has been omitted. The love story, while deep cringe at points and arguably not super well earned for how wildly in love they become, does pay off in how absolutely wrecked blackthorne is in the ending. In the show we've cut all of that down to a one night stand and mild wistful might-have-been feelings. The idea of blackthorne ending up as toranaga's friend has also been pretty badly undercut by the show invention of blackthorne betraying toranaga. There is no way that poo poo would fly, book blackthorne's basically consistent loyalty is the reason he isn't killed and even then it's a close call at various points
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 19:26
|
|
|
the way i see the loyalty thing, is toranaga is coming to understand blackthorne's model of loyalty, where he's genuinely loyal enough to actually stand up and say "you're being an idiot", it'll all come down to how blackthorne reacts when it comes out that this was all according to toranaga's plan. also still a little time for the romance to heat up.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 20:02
|
|
|
HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:the way i see the loyalty thing, is toranaga is coming to understand blackthorne's model of loyalty, where he's genuinely loyal enough to actually stand up and say "you're being an idiot", it'll all come down to how blackthorne reacts when it comes out that this was all according to toranaga's plan. also still a little time for the romance to heat up. (really large spoilers) I can see them squeezing one or two more scenes in, but a little time ain't kidding considering the episode descriptions for 9 and 10 in the hulu app seem to strongly suggest mariko is dying tonight No Mods No Masters fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Apr 15, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 20:25
|
|
|
Book spoilers: I've been waiting this whole show for the Blackthorne sepukku scene because that's when he *gets it*. But I can understand how it may not translate so well in the show. Until this last episode when he sees his old shipmate there wasn't really a scene where it seemed like he really preferred the Japans to Euro life.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 21:03
|
|
|
I think more than half Yabu's lines in this episode were grunts of some kind, and all of them were gold
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 05:56
|
|
|
Absolutely incredible.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 06:00
|
|
|
Whelp I love how polite samurai are before they kill each other. A polite bow to apologize for the fact that his master has ordered their deaths, and then swoosh! swaaap! Then carefully put away your sword MikeC fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Apr 16, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 06:10
|
|
|
A chef's kiss. Banger scenes wall to wall
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 06:11
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:
I have good news and bad news.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 06:31
|
|
|
 I think this is probably the goat costume among the goat costumes
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 06:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 20:33 |
|
|
Holy goddamn poo poo  I can't believe after next week there's no more, this series is amazing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 08:02
|
|