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Like what part of that is a contradiction, I am saying we get information either way: If Dans flips town, then we were wrong, but we now have a smaller window of players to examine in light of it (namely: Those who voted for Dans. If Dans is town, there is likely scum attempting to vote Dans off). If Dans flips scum, then we were right, and have a smaller window of players to examine in light of it (namely: Those within the masonry, as Dans' scumslip means that a member of the masonry that Yuming has confirmed in the thread must also be scum, because it's the most likely way for Dans to get the information that there was a "the masonry" without being involved in it.
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Apr 15, 2024 00:20
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I've seen it pop up a couple times now so I'd just like to say my Stalin vote is not a joke
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Apr 15, 2024 00:20
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That said I'll vote for absolutely anyone at this point
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Apr 15, 2024 00:20
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Tea Party Crasher posted:You know what gently caress it I'm tired of this day one ##vote Dans this is an unexpected reaction
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Apr 15, 2024 00:21
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I can’t tell if you’re missing the point on purpose. If you give players an excuse to vote for someone no matter their alignment (information) then they can vote for any reason, so there’s no way to interpret motivation for their vote, so there’s no way to deduce who is scum.
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Apr 15, 2024 00:21
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Like is “executing for information” ok now in Mafia? This is all logic that was all super well known back when I played, that when you separate votes from motivation you give away the towns entire advantage.
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Apr 15, 2024 00:23
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Monathin posted:It's a really long Day 1. I don't blame you i wish it were longer
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Apr 15, 2024 00:23
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hambeet posted:gently caress, time to bust out a golden oldie it seems. I don't know that I'd seen this one before, but it got a sensible chuckle.
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Apr 15, 2024 00:24
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Tom Tucker posted:Like is “executing for information” ok now in Mafia? This is all logic that was all super well known back when I played, that when you separate votes from motivation you give away the towns entire advantage. voting for information is a motivation
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Apr 15, 2024 00:24
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hambeet posted:i wish it were longer You and me both brother
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Apr 15, 2024 00:24
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hambeet posted:this is an unexpected reaction The whole reason I was pushing back was because of this: Voodoofly posted:I guess I'm not nearly as sold that it was a scum slip and not just the beautiful imperfection of the English language Tea Party Crasher posted:I could see the scum slip angle but the way that people just jumped on it and started voting is much weirder But then, you guys summarize it as "You are defending Dans", which is what makes my reaction supposedly weird. But my point wasn't to defend Dans, It was to express that the rapid flurry of votes was weirding me out. But the conversation was becoming so tortured and annoying that I figured gently caress it it's day one do we really need to split hairs like this, I might as well get on a vote train that can possibly get to the end.
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Apr 15, 2024 00:24
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I don't consider the subgame to be a masonry personally, partially because I'm not going to be in it much longer 
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Apr 15, 2024 00:25
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Tea Party Crasher posted:If Dans flips town though I'm going to tunnel the poo poo out of everybody who voted him before me but i was on him before the slip. i've been on dans a long time. (i really thought i was till on
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Apr 15, 2024 00:25
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Tom Tucker posted:I can’t tell if you’re missing the point on purpose. At which point, you could look at the people who jumped on after I said as much and deduce which ones might be voting because it's an easy vote and they didn't have to have an opinion on it, yes? I might be missing the point because I have genuinely no idea what the gently caress you're smoking. The way I see the Dans flip is dead simple - it will reduce the number of players we have to look at in either direction. I think Dans is scum, but I am willing to be wrong about it, and plan accordingly. Do you believe that a town Dans will strictly have only town voting for them? Because that seems to be the implication that "there's no way to deduce who is scum" seems to imply. The idea that if he flips town there will be no way to tell who is scum is loving baffling, to me. You also never answered my other question about the connection being made to Pussy Quipped and "a vote leader", and only came back into thread to harp on my posting, again. I'm starting to think you are not actually interested in catching scum, and singularly only interested in making sure I am getting executed!
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Apr 15, 2024 00:25
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Tom Tucker posted:Like is “executing for information” ok now in Mafia? This is all logic that was all super well known back when I played, that when you separate votes from motivation you give away the towns entire advantage. Executing expressly for information would be a bad idea, yeah, but on day one I see the logic in "well, this person could be scum, but if they unfortunately are not at least we learn something". That's probably what people mean about getting information
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Apr 15, 2024 00:25
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I think there's a non-trivial chance that Dans is in a yet-to-be-divulged masonry distinct from the one Yuming mentioned.
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Apr 15, 2024 00:26
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Tea Party Crasher posted:Then vote me then, holy gently caress rumbled?
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Apr 15, 2024 00:26
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hambeet posted:but i was on him before the slip. i've been on dans a long time. (i really thought i was till on Beet I feel like you're going out of your way to misconstrue the things I'm taking issue with.
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Apr 15, 2024 00:26
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What do y'all think of dans, scum-slip aside?
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Apr 15, 2024 00:27
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Wow I mean I guess it’s good these obviously scummy things have become the norm because being scum doesn’t change. Monathin is trying to set up excuses for what happens if Dans is town - therefor Monathin is scum. This is the thing scum do. Because they know who is town. But don’t want to get in trouble when town die.
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Apr 15, 2024 00:27
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Voodoofly posted:if you were writing a legal document for me it would be that it was "ANY subgames(s) or" because it's nearly impossibly to say "any X" and then mention something else without an "or" as the conjunction absent like a very formal, pedantic structure. to specify different masonries/subgames? i'd have used an 'and / or' or possibly thrown in a 'but not limited to' to be exactingly specific about my unintentional slip
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Apr 15, 2024 00:27
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CubicalSucrose posted:I think there's a non-trivial chance that Dans is in a yet-to-be-divulged masonry distinct from the one Yuming mentioned. But it's not with me and now that I said something all it would take would be a scumbud to chime in and lie about one. ##vote Dans
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Apr 15, 2024 00:28
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Tea Party Crasher posted:Beet I feel like you're going out of your way to misconstrue the things I'm taking issue with. oh we're not making jokes anymore?  okay
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Apr 15, 2024 00:28
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you used to be cool tpc
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Apr 15, 2024 00:28
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For transparency, I scum claimed for the subgame last night, my partner in that game has not claimed and I do not intend to expose them at this time. I posted this in the subgame: quote:tbh I'm hesitant to out my partner just because it doesn't feel right to do so. It feels bad and goes against my nature to scum claim myself even in a subgame of a bigger game and I'm not interested in executing them in the main game today based on their reluctance to claim in this subgame. I think if anything the reluctance to claim is more of a townie move, scum are way more worried about not sticking out in something like this than getting a boon at the expense of drawing extra attention to themselves. I'm going to reread them and pay close attention to them in the main game, and if they start to seem scummy I can just out them in the main game even if I'm dead here. Judge me how you will, but I am a man of principle 
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Apr 15, 2024 00:29
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hambeet posted:you used to be cool tpc Sorry the person I hired to make me more charming usually just went home because I wasn't willing to pay them overtime
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Apr 15, 2024 00:30
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Don't worry everyone I'm making veggie burgers I'll stop being a bitch in approximately 30 minutes
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Apr 15, 2024 00:31
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OK, I am mostly free from JoseVI for the night. What's this Dans business?
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Apr 15, 2024 00:31
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Tom Tucker posted:Wow I mean I guess it’s good these obviously scummy things have become the norm because being scum doesn’t change. Tom do you think you might just be a tunneler
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Apr 15, 2024 00:32
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Tom Tucker posted:Wow I mean I guess it’s good these obviously scummy things have become the norm because being scum doesn’t change. I do not know what to tell you, here, brother. I have been pretty plain in my reasoning. I am notorious for never using confessionals because I literally just leave all my thoughts out in the thread for anyone to read. You have literally not engaged the thread except to call me scum for any post I make, even when I have explicitly given you the good faith read that I think you are town and tunnelling me, which I still largely would like to believe is true, but you are reading the worst interpretation of my actions possible and refusing to engage with any point I try to push by calling it additionally scummy. If I had a dayvig right now and self-vigged I'm pretty sure you'd call that scummy, even after I saw the flip! Like you have to understand why I think you're tunnelling here. Narrowing down the field of potential suspects is literally always in town's favor - scum are able to hide in numbers, and if Dans made an unfortunately scumslip-seeming turn of phrase, then I'm willing to eat crow on it and you'll probably turbo me tomorrow. w/e.
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Apr 15, 2024 00:33
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Monathin posted:If I had a dayvig right now and self-vigged I'm pretty sure you'd call that scummy, even after you saw the flip! Like you have to understand why I think you're tunnelling here. mafia edit
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Apr 15, 2024 00:34
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Jose Valasquez posted:OK, I am mostly free from JoseVI for the night. What's this Dans business? Idk can someone plz link me to relevant post or something
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Apr 15, 2024 00:36
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Tom, outside of your blood lust for Mona, what do you make of the dans masonry situation? Do you think people are correct in saying it's a slip? Do you think the votes are weird? What's up
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Apr 15, 2024 00:36
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Tea Party Crasher posted:The whole reason I was pushing back was because of this: i didn't summarise you arguing semantics as 'you're defending dans.' like, i'm simultaneously discussing the likelihood of it being a slip and the language people are getting hung up on. i just saw you walk in like striker eurkea to the discussion and i remembered that hal post about false dichotomy between wins / dan or something so i decided to go back and see what you said about dans around that time. i then brought my homework to thread. you getting frustrated about it that easily is what seems out of character and a weird reaction.
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Apr 15, 2024 00:36
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there's no way to read that dans post as anything other than a scumslip, anyone defending it using the "ambiguities of english" is pinging me really bad
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Apr 15, 2024 00:38
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Monathin posted:At which point, you could look at the people who jumped on after I said as much and deduce which ones might be voting because it's an easy vote and they didn't have to have an opinion on it, yes? tom's posting really rubs me the wrong way for some reason. it's probably the hat in the avatar. but his logic about lowering the barrier to players explaining their vote is something i've spoken about before in these situations.
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Apr 15, 2024 00:38
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b-minus1 posted:Idk can someone plz link me to relevant post or something Jose Valasquez posted:OK, I am mostly free from JoseVI for the night. What's this Dans business? Start here: Dans Macabre posted:I'm not in any of the sub games or the masonry and I couldn't be happier.
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Apr 15, 2024 00:38
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b-minus1 posted:Idk can someone plz link me to relevant post or something Dans Macabre posted:I'm not in any of the sub games or the masonry and I couldn't be happier. PhantomMuzzles posted:What masonry? yuming posted:##vote Dans yuming posted:Hey full disclosure I’m in a masonry Dans is not in. AFancyQuestionMark posted:##vote dans Monathin posted:Actual lmao if this is a for real, legitimate scum slip. lih posted:this seems like a good catch. i've searched through the thread and can't find anyone previously mentioning being in a masonry except for shark's subgames, so it does seem weird for dans to say "the sub games or the masonry" as if they're separate things. there was also that bit from dans where he was self-conscious about his response to shark Dominoes posted:Thank you. Voodoofly posted:I'm going to ask the obvious question then: if this is a scum slip why are you not outing the masonry that, by definition, must include scum? Voodoofly posted:I guess I'm not nearly as sold that it was a scum slip and not just the beautiful imperfection of the English language
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Apr 15, 2024 00:38
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CubicalSucrose posted:I think there's a non-trivial chance that Dans is in a yet-to-be-divulged masonry distinct from the one Yuming mentioned. choose your own post adventure (pick only one!): response one: dan could totally come and clear that up yeah? response two: yeah, it's called SCUM CHAT!
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Apr 15, 2024 00:39
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hambeet posted:choose your own post adventure (pick only one!): I'll take number two please
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Apr 15, 2024 00:40
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