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Goddamn that was brutal but good. No Mods No Masters posted:
Wearing only the best to tell Ishido in the most polite language to shove his bullshit up his peasant rear end.  I can't wait for So sorry, I don't believe you.
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Apr 16, 2024 08:02
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Yabushige becoming increasingly panicked as he realizes Toranaga still has a plan in the works and he's not part of it was beautiful, and then when the ninja raid wasn't going to plan and he was seeing his last chance to get on Ishido's good side (literally) blow up in his face  Edit: Also the way his face fell when he realized the message he was being given was a verbal one and nothing written down, because he realizes that CAN'T be anything good 
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Apr 16, 2024 08:09
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The scene where the setting sun catches the retainers' bowstrings was so pretty.
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Apr 16, 2024 11:16
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I worry too much in this show that I've missed some hint or line of dialogue that explains the political machination behind what people are doing at a particular time. Ochiba makes the point that if Mariko is allowed to leave all the hostages will request the same, which would've been helpful info 10 minutes earlier when I was distracted from the cool scene at the gate by wondering why it matters so much to Ishido that she and Toranaga's family don't leave that he's openly murdering people. At the time I was thinking losing them is a small hit and better than not showing yourself as a tyrant before everybody, so why are you doing this? But then maybe this was elucidated at an earlier point, or I'm poor at inferring things, I don't know. snoremac fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Apr 16, 2024 |
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Apr 16, 2024 12:46
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Why the hell was this episode called "Crimson Sky"? What a bait and switch. This show has been boring as hell for the last 3-4 episodes, aside from the final 10 minutes or so. I really thought a show about the "war" for the Shogunate would be more action-heavy
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Apr 16, 2024 13:08
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Man if you can't appreciate the acting smorgasbord this show is presenting you with in tense, well crafted scene after well crafted scene i dunno ... That being said every episode the past few weeks have had fight scenes, this one had 2!
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Apr 16, 2024 13:29
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This isn't a war show it's a romance between a budding weeb and his abusive sugar daddy
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Apr 16, 2024 13:29
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blue squares posted:Why the hell was this episode called "Crimson Sky"? What a bait and switch. lmao buddy there’s only one notable battle in this conflict and it’s not even shown in the book.
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Apr 16, 2024 13:33
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blue squares posted:Why the hell was this episode called "Crimson Sky"? What a bait and switch. This is a great example of why good shows like this are so infrequently made.
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Apr 16, 2024 13:38
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blue squares posted:Why the hell was this episode called "Crimson Sky"? What a bait and switch. It's a metaphor. The fight being won before the battle. This episode had some pretty intense action. Sorry you didn't get Toranaga coming over the ridge with the Rohirim at dawn of the fifth day. Or "Toranagas: Assemble!" But I was impressed with what they pulled off. Anyway, great motherfucking episode.
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Apr 16, 2024 13:42
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What do you think Ishido's intention was at the end, assuming things didn't go haywire? My assumption is detaining Mariko and somehow preventing an exodus of hostages, but I don't see how the second part was to come about.
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Apr 16, 2024 13:44
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snoremac posted:What do you think Ishido's intention was at the end, assuming things didn't go haywire? My assumption is detaining Mariko and somehow preventing an exodus of hostages, but I don't see how the second part was to come about. It's haywire all three ways you cut it. It's just that Ishido doesn't see it yet. He's trying to bureaucrat his way out of a fight. 1, Mariko being allowed to leave ruins his "I'm not touching you" method of imprisonment; 2, Mariko being allowed to kill herself is essentially a declaration of war by Ishido; and 3, what happened, which creates a free-for-all that works to Toranaga's advantage. At least that's how I see it. Ishido is supposedly the cool-headed stable leader protecting the heir and Toranaga is the chaos agent. This episode flipped those roles. Also, Toranaga probably was right in that Lady Ochiba's one weakness is her affection for Mariko. Nice Tuckpointing! fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Apr 16, 2024 |
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Apr 16, 2024 13:56
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snoremac posted:What do you think Ishido's intention was at the end, assuming things didn't go haywire? My assumption is detaining Mariko and somehow preventing an exodus of hostages, but I don't see how the second part was to come about. Best situation for Ishido is if Mariko is allowed to leave formally but does not leave. Second best is if she is allowed to leave but is not seen publicly leaving (as other hostages may request to leave at that point). The main thing here is that Ishido doesn't have the power to take on the other lords on his own. His ability to hold on to his coalition is the threat of Torunaga. The idea that Torunaga as the most powerful individual regent is set on taking over himself. By looking convincingly defeated, Torunaga is able to make all the other lords see publicly what they might have been thinking privately. You can clamp down on one family or another asking to leave. You can't if they all ask to leave at the same time. For Ishido the only solution is for the problem to go away quietly joepinetree fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Apr 16, 2024 |
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Apr 16, 2024 16:21
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Blackthorne's body language was a amazing throughout. While everyone else is posed for a perfect painting at every moment of every day, he wears his costume like a old bathrobe, slouches, can't stand still.
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Apr 16, 2024 16:31
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withak posted:Blackthorne's body language was a amazing throughout. While everyone else is posed for a perfect painting at every moment of every day, he wears his costume like a old bathrobe, slouches, can't stand still. I liked when he was so wildly uncomfortable with pretty much everything about the ochiba/mariko meeting that he practically ran away the second it was over
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Apr 16, 2024 16:38
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withak posted:Blackthorne's body language was a amazing throughout. While everyone else is posed for a perfect painting at every moment of every day, he wears his costume like a old bathrobe, slouches, can't stand still. Noticed this too! In the scene right after Mariko has knelt during the audience with Ishido & Ochiba, you can see Blackthorne in the background, over her left shoulder, twitching & adjusting himself to hear her better.
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Apr 16, 2024 16:38
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And before when he and Yabu are heading to the audience hall. Everybody has perfect choreography while Blackthorne is looking everywhere and patting/scratching his chest like he has fleas. Also, I like that whenever Yabu calls somebody an idiot, he's using the word "manuke", which is one of my favorite Japanese words simply because my first encounter with it was translated as nincompoop.
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Apr 16, 2024 16:43
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Will do a more in depth writeup later but this was one of the best episodes of television I've ever seen. Anna Sawai owned every scene.
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Apr 16, 2024 16:58
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nah it was poo poo like the past four episodes. i played the game this was based on and this is so disappointing. more like shogun: total bore. blackthorne should've pulled out his gun and killed ishido and said "im not doing this for my queen. im doing this for TORANAGA SAMA CRIMSON SKYYYYYYYY" and then everyone fights eachother while he kisses mariko who converts to Protestantism after stabbing the jesuit translator guy.
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Apr 16, 2024 17:07
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Apr 16, 2024 17:13
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I won’t be able to watch until maybe tomorrow. How was the ninja attack?
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Apr 16, 2024 17:14
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Yeah having digested it a bit I feel like this is the show's best episode and it's not even particularly close. Anna sawai stepped up from consistently pretty good to absolutely owning the role and the whole show. From an adaptation standpoint I feel like here the changes actually improve the material too. It's about as good of a realization of that sequence as you could ever realistically hope for
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Apr 16, 2024 17:16
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blue squares posted:Why the hell was this episode called "Crimson Sky"? What a bait and switch. its marikos's suicide attack
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Apr 16, 2024 17:39
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MrMojok posted:I won’t be able to watch until maybe tomorrow. It was fine. Surprisingly actual ninjas for this show. I think I saw shuriken and a kusarigama
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Apr 16, 2024 17:47
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This has been one of the only shows my wife and I have been able to watch together. There’s enough political intrigue and drama to keep us both interested. There is enough action to keep me watching and just enough so my wife doesn’t pull away. She doesn’t particularly like watching action / anything with too much violence.
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Apr 16, 2024 17:57
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When is Anjin Sama gonna get his own Red Seal Ships?
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Apr 16, 2024 18:11
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This was a fantastic episode. The one thing that I found a bit unconvincing, though, is that Mariko could ever think that her standing in front of the explosives would do much to shield everyone else, given her size.
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Apr 16, 2024 18:22
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Okee dokee, time to stop torturing myself with reaction videos. I only watched two this time, but both we're calling out expected cliches...and being confused when they didn't happen, including: When Mariko was trying to leave, and they saw Ochiba on the wall, "Oh here it comes, Mariko vs Ochiba fight!"; the arrows shot at Mariko's feet, "Whoa, they have bad aim"; Last scene: "I don't believe it until I see a body." Um, you saw 1,000 fiery pieces of a body?; Yabu's final betrayal, "Alright! He's letting Toranaga's men in!" And dinging the episode for the ending, which is a sign of good TV I say. Though, an offhand Reddit comment noted that Toranaga sees Yabu's betrayal as "a load-bearing treason." So at least there was one gem in there.
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Apr 16, 2024 18:27
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MeinPanzer posted:This was a fantastic episode. The one thing that I found a bit unconvincing, though, is that Mariko could ever think that her standing in front of the explosives would do much to shield everyone else, given her size. that'd just be a bonus for her, she mostly wants to die
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Apr 16, 2024 18:27
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snoremac posted:I worry too much in this show that I've missed some hint or line of dialogue that explains the political machination behind what people are doing at a particular time. That part was explained a bit earlier as well: In the court scene, it was made pretty clear that Ishido did not want to let Mariko leave, but at the same time that he also doesn't have any legitimate official reason to prevent her from leaving. Mariko forced the issue by marching on the gate, at which point Ishido decided he'd rather look a bit lovely by stopping her than letting her go. He probably figured he'd be able to muddle through on a technicality after the fact. What he probably hadn't anticipated was Mariko's secondary goal: By first expending her retainers and then trying -and failing- to personally fight her way out, she could prove to everyone that she had done her utmost to follow her duty, but was prevented from doing so by Ishido. This meant that her suicide would then be unarguably Ishido's fault. Ishido likely had not counted on her engineering this situation and threatening suicide to push him into an absolute no-win scenario. As for the guys who died at the gate fight, those were just retainers, nobody cares much about those. Mariko herself however was part of the absolutely highest upper crust of samurai nobility, which she had made a point of reiterating before court. Her death, one way or another, would be a way bigger deal.
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Apr 16, 2024 18:47
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Nice Tuckpointing! posted:Yabu's final betrayal, "Alright! He's letting Toranaga's men in!" And dinging the episode for the ending, The assassins were Toranaga’s men? Edit: Watched the scene again, it’s Ishido’s men. I love Yaba’s sigh. obi_ant fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Apr 16, 2024 |
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Apr 16, 2024 19:47
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Ishido doesn't realize that he's kinda hosed as soon as Mariko enters Osaka. Ochiba tries to tell him he has no good option, so he tries to find his own third option (ninja attack), which horribly backfires, and even if they had captured Mariko, I'm not sure the rest of the court is going to ignore all the testimony from people saying "Yeah, super weird, Ishido said she could leave but then a bunch of assassins conveniently came in the night and spirited her away to who knows where." Also a shoutout to the best burn of the series: "I am not some peasant to be trodden upon." Vorenus fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Apr 16, 2024 |
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Apr 16, 2024 19:51
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I think Ishido's plan was effectively a variation of the "lotta "bandits" around Osaka all of a sudden, eh?" strategy where everybody knows it is bullshit but decorum dictates you can't openly call it out. By having Mariko captured by Shinobi, he could claim it was a sign of the dangers outside the castle and the "unfortunate" necessity of insisting the remaining "guests" remain in the castle with a tripled guard for their "protection", probably blaming Toranaga for causing dissension that had emboldened "bandits". Not a great plan, people can only take so much bullshit before things explode, and Ochiba had already seen that he had been expertly played into a corner - I strongly suspect that this idea was entirely his own and that she would have been against it for various reasons, not least of all the danger to Mariko who she does still appear to deeply care for. Instead everything goes wrong, mostly because Blackthorne happened to be in the room with her which gave an unexpected extra fighter for the shinobi to deal with, she dies anyway but this time not only in duty but also protecting the lives of her fellow "guests" which has completely hosed Ishido's standing and left him back even deeper in the same corner.
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Apr 16, 2024 20:52
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I appreciated that Mariko's previously shown combat training was not leading to her winning a fight against like 8 dudes at once. I got little concerned that the show was going to swing wildly into complete shock when someone handed her a spear. Her putting on a good show while not really trying to hurt anyone was very well done. I thought all the stuntmen had great "Oh gently caress, this lady's coming at me with a spear, and also, I will be killed if I hurt her" faces.
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Apr 16, 2024 20:56
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Blackthorne using that pistol like it's a glock but i'm down for that.
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Apr 16, 2024 20:59
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What has surprised me the most about this series is how well the love story landed (for me). There are so many ways it could have gone wrong or been derailed with melodrama or flat delivery, but at every step of the way, the writers and actors have completely sold the relationship between Anjin and Mariko. Neither are the caricatures they could have been but are deeply flawed but incredibly resilient and interesting people, and it's very easy to believe that these fictional people could fall for one another and have such a strong bond. When he asks her to stay alive "for me" it's so straightforward and earnest. There are some fictional couples that just really sell the magnetism with so few words exchanged (Day-Lewis and Stowe from Last of the Mohicans come to mind) and this is definitely one of those. IMO it's kind of the anchor for the rest of the show and the casting director should be very proud because they hit a grand slam.
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Apr 16, 2024 21:02
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mariko-sama, you died as you lived, gushing all over a barbarian. respect.
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Apr 16, 2024 21:22
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Panzeh posted:Blackthorne using that pistol like it's a glock but i'm down for that. Yeah, the speed and ease at which he reloaded was perhaps a little fudged, but not egregiously so. A pistol like that could reasonably be reloaded in about 20 seconds, so if he's cool under fire it's quite feasible for him to get several shots off. They showed just enough of him messing about with the pistol to convey that it's a bit of a process, but one that he's experienced at. I also appreciated him holding the thing by the barrel during the initial ambush, fully ready to beat a guy's head in with it. 
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Apr 16, 2024 21:48
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Actually, the more that I think about, the less that I understand the whole situation with Ishido, Mariko, and the hostages. Maybe I missed some subtle dialogue along the way or something. Mariko had come ostensibly to deliver a message to Ishido and then to leave again. The hostages feel that they can’t leave because of Ishido’s intimidation. What would it change if Ishido just let Mariko leave but demanded that the hostages stay when they asked to leave as well, under the pretense of keeping them safe from Toranaga?
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Apr 16, 2024 22:00
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MeinPanzer posted:Actually, the more that I think about, the less that I understand the whole situation with Ishido, Mariko, and the hostages. Maybe I missed some subtle dialogue along the way or something.
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Apr 16, 2024 22:20
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