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Jezza of OZPOS posted:I don't really know anything about Zack except he's the real cloud and I'm fine with that You should play Crisis Core. I am playing it now and it's great. Just a jock being constantly tormented by theater kids.
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# ? Apr 19, 2024 18:19 |
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# ? May 11, 2024 15:35 |
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Zack is the most consistently Good Dude in the entire story and it takes until the end of Rebirth for him to figure out the universe is literally out to kill him for it
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# ? Apr 19, 2024 18:28 |
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There's a reason he was barely a character in the OG game
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# ? Apr 19, 2024 18:30 |
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Zack is genuinely the only nice guy on Gaia or whatever they wanna call it and he's goofy as poo poo. he's a grown up Sora in the dourass FF7 world
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# ? Apr 19, 2024 20:37 |
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grieving for Gandalf posted:Zack is genuinely the only nice guy on Gaia or whatever they wanna call it and he's goofy as poo poo. he's a grown up Sora in the dourass FF7 world
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# ? Apr 19, 2024 21:02 |
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lol I genuinely did not know he was in BbS
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# ? Apr 19, 2024 22:46 |
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I honestly wish the KH games would follow up on whatever the gently caress happened to its version of Zack.
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# ? Apr 19, 2024 23:16 |
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Raxivace posted:I honestly wish the KH games would follow up on whatever the gently caress happened to its version of Zack. If I remember correctly, in the post credits sequence of the Disney worlds it shows a black feather floating down behind Zack so Sephiroth probably straight up killed him.
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# ? Apr 20, 2024 00:09 |
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Trailer shows Zack going to the Old Yeller world with a hunter doing the exact same camera cut as the soldier at the end of Crisis Core. "The price of freedom is steep."
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# ? Apr 20, 2024 00:21 |
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Somebody pointed out something interesting in regards to the battle against Jenova Lifeclinger, we might actually be jumping between timestreams there. The versions of the party at the start are horrified, enraged, and downcast, but at the climactic descent as they go all Advent Children on Jenova, they're upbeat, confident, and comparatively cheerful, with no signs of distress, just righteous anger. Maybe one set was from Cloud's current world where Aerith falls, another from the version where Aerith lives? And Cloud (and maybe Tifa) are glitching back and forth because they've touched the Lifestream and are cognizant of multiple worlds indirectly that way?
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# ? Apr 20, 2024 00:39 |
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Gologle posted:If I remember correctly, in the post credits sequence of the Disney worlds it shows a black feather floating down behind Zack so Sephiroth probably straight up killed him. Either that or Angeal stopped by to pick up his pupil. Also game done. Game good. What is the play for dealing with Heartless Angel my winning run only worked out because he never used the loving thing.
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# ? Apr 20, 2024 14:40 |
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BisbyWorl posted:Either that or Angeal stopped by to pick up his pupil. Doesn't Angeal have white feathers? As for Heartless Angel, all I could figure to do was just make sure I always had at least 1 ATB ready in the second half of the fight so I could heal ASAP. This was, of course, easier said than done.
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# ? Apr 20, 2024 15:15 |
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Harrow posted:Doesn't Angeal have white feathers? In my defense there are way too many people with wings in FF7.
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# ? Apr 20, 2024 15:17 |
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There really are It's so goofy to me that we went from "One-Winged Angel" just being the title of a final boss track to Sephiroth literally having a single wing starting in Kingdom Hearts, to that just being a thing that happens to SOLDIER prototypes sometimes.
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# ? Apr 20, 2024 15:18 |
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It refers to Safer Sephiroth's one winged arm. I agree it's weirdly over-focused and a bit over-done in all the spin-off media but it is what it is now. BisbyWorl posted:What is the play for dealing with Heartless Angel my winning run only worked out because he never used the loving thing. Generally you want to bank one ATB all the time. Consider it a 'reactive' ATB point. It's no good having to spam basic attacks in a panic because you can't heal yourself. That's how game overs happen.
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# ? Apr 20, 2024 15:20 |
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Harrow posted:It's so goofy to me that we went from "One-Winged Angel" just being the title of a final boss track to Sephiroth literally having a single wing starting in Kingdom Hearts, to that just being a thing that happens to SOLDIER prototypes sometimes. Safer Sephiroth always had a single black wing, even in OG.
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# ? Apr 20, 2024 15:22 |
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Oh sure I know that, I'm just saying that having a single black angel wing was never a part of Sephiroth's major aesthetic until Kingdom Hearts and it's funny how Crisis Core made that something that happens to a bunch of different people (Also Safer Sephiroth has like 7 wings total if we count the ones that make up his lower body )
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# ? Apr 20, 2024 15:27 |
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I think Sephiroth having a single wing looks lame
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# ? Apr 20, 2024 15:41 |
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it’s badass, actually
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# ? Apr 20, 2024 15:43 |
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Um actually the symbolism is very deep, it represents capitalism because while the
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# ? Apr 20, 2024 15:47 |
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Sephiroth is raw unfiltered "This was the epitome of cool in the 90s" and that includes having one random wing.
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# ? Apr 20, 2024 15:53 |
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Just finished the game last night and while I enjoyed it, I didn't really like the last chapter/ending. I played the original back at release when I was 15 or something, and the whole Aeris dies thing stuck with me since then, it was probably the first video game that actually made teenage me feel some kind of emotional response. Fast forward to rebirth and I was looking forward to seeing what they did with it - would she die and we'd get the heartbreak all over again, or would they tip everything on its head and we'd get a joyous happy victory against fate? I'd have been happy with either, but in the end I just felt kinda confused? To the point where I wasn't actually sure if she was full on dead or dead in some dimensions and alive in others or just a ghost in Cloud's broken brain. I felt like I had to read a few things to see other peoples reactions and thoughts, but this meant that during those final moments of the game that I thought would be stuck in my head for one emotional reason or another, instead of feeling any kind of emotion I was instead just scratching my head. The only thing that registered at all really was Tifa sobbing when the crew were all sat around the tiny bronco right at the end, that was rough. But yeah slightly disappointing after all the build-up up to that point, imo.
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# ? Apr 20, 2024 19:30 |
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Just finished the game. Think I enjoyed the ending but I would like to know where to read not "internet hot take brain" thoughts on it (I assume there's some in this thread but it's 50 pages). Poor Cloud. Man's brain is soup.
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# ? Apr 21, 2024 00:30 |
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Sockser posted:I think Sephiroth having a single wing looks lame fck you
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# ? Apr 21, 2024 00:35 |
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I thought it looked dumb in Kingdom Hearts and I think it's looks dumb every time anyone else does it. Zack better not do it, Aerith better not do it, I will tolerate Wedge doing it!
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# ? Apr 21, 2024 16:50 |
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Coming to the spoiler thread for a more serious discussion of the implications on the new Gi lore on the overall plot. To wit: is Sephiroth Like This because being part Jenova renders him unable to fully enter the lifestream, or does Jenova becoming part Sephiroth allow her access to the lifestream where she can cause all kinds of trouble?
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# ? Apr 21, 2024 17:04 |
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ZiegeDame posted:Coming to the spoiler thread for a more serious discussion of the implications on the new Gi lore on the overall plot. To wit: is Sephiroth Like This because being part Jenova renders him unable to fully enter the lifestream, or does Jenova becoming part Sephiroth allow her access to the lifestream where she can cause all kinds of trouble? It seems to be the former. A similar example (from classic) is Lucretia who literally killed herself but the Jenova cells inside of her wouldn't let her die, which is why she's in crystal stasis instead.
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# ? Apr 21, 2024 17:12 |
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Would that not then also apply to all the black-robes and possibly Cloud as well?
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# ? Apr 21, 2024 18:59 |
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lines posted:Would that not then also apply to all the black-robes and possibly Cloud as well? It's not entirely clear since Lucretia and Sephiroth are a different case, but Jenova Taint being a problem is a thing. It's the cause of Geostigma in Advent Children and the actual Geostigma is caused by the bad interaction between lifestream and Jenova. Even once it is seemingly cured at the end, it's pointed out that DEEPGROUND was specifically avoiding people who had contracted Geostigma because they thought that the planet would only accept 'untainted' people for its emergency plan. Like it's worth noting that Sephiroth's advent children plan was flat-out "I am going to infect as many people as possible with Geostigma and then when enough of them die there will be a critical mass of Jenova in the Lifestream and we can take it over." The actual Geostigma issue gets resolved at the end but Sephiroth/Jenova being around because they won't loving die is still a thing. (It's worth noting this is also a pretty big part of why people think the Remakes are a sequel, especially since Rebirth literally shows Sephiroth in the Lifestream warring against the planet, and clearing up the Jenovaroth problem would allow it to finally 'close' the FF7 plot.) ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Apr 21, 2024 |
# ? Apr 21, 2024 21:12 |
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I've figured it out. The real plot is that Aerith is attempting to slingshot herself through the lifestream until she reaches far enough into the past that she'll be able to destroy Jenova before she ends up being used for Hojo's experiments. This will be revealed in a post-credits sequence before Cloud wakes up in bed with Tifa, Zack, and Aerith who tells him it was just a bad dream—but she's referring to the events of the entire Compilation of FFVII (including the original).
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# ? Apr 21, 2024 21:50 |
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ImpAtom posted:It's not entirely clear since Lucretia and Sephiroth are a different case, but Jenova Taint being a problem is a thing. It's the cause of Geostigma in Advent Children and the actual Geostigma is caused by the bad interaction between lifestream and Jenova. Even once it is seemingly cured at the end, it's pointed out that DEEPGROUND was specifically avoiding people who had contracted Geostigma because they thought that the planet would only accept 'untainted' people for its emergency plan. Also in Lifestream Black, we get this stuff quote:The man could sense the Lifestream trying to erode his spirit– the memories of his former experiences, thoughts and emotions. If he allowed himself be taken into the current, the being he once was would soon disseminate and disappear amongst the spirit energy cycling around the planet. The man thought this unacceptable. The planet was to be his to rule, and to become a part of that system would be nothing short of defeat. This also explains why Sephiroth is always 'born' to the planet, he surrendered his childhood to the Lifestream, which in turn means he'll always be reborn, and he exists as an infection. Also yeah this was written for Advent Children but I think it's still quite applicable and important to Rebirth.
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# ? Apr 22, 2024 00:56 |
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Oh, that's pretty interesting. I never read Lifestream Black, and I only remember small snippets of White, so I didn't know that the Sephiroth that "exists" now is practically entirely different from the Sephiroth before his death. I'm kinda sad that it implies he literally doesn't even remember Genesis or Angeal anymore, but this could also possibly mean that the vestiges of Sephiroth that were good might still be able to reincarnate somehow.
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# ? Apr 22, 2024 01:41 |
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Honestly, I thought it was fairly obvious that the Sephiroth we encounter is no longer even slightly human.
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# ? Apr 22, 2024 03:23 |
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In the same way as the "sephiroth" we encountered in the original wasn't human and was jenova/possessed black cloaks/mind spectres, or in a different way?
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# ? Apr 22, 2024 10:30 |
Okay, I've finished the game a second time, and I'm definitely still confused about some parts. Some of that feels like it should get resolved in the next game (Zack and Ur-Aerith), but some of it feels like I'm supposed to understand it but there's too much noise to get at the signal. The White Whispers try to stop the party going ahead - is that because the ur-Aerith knows if they get there she'll die? Their motivation is completely opaque to be. The Wall of Whispers come down - which is a mixture of white and black Whispers? Or maybe just black...but then three black whispers hit it, making an opening that the party keeps open for Cloud to go through. I think that what's happening there is Sephiroth wants Cloud to see Aerith die, but is concerned that maybe if they're all there they'll be able to stop him? Unclear. They respond to Cloud saying her name...is it him imposing his will in opposition to Sephiroth? He gets there and a mixture of black and white whispers make him raise his sword, reenacting the original. Seph jumps down and Cloud...stops his blade? Aerith is kneeling and upright, the masamune is broken. Then there's a glitch, and she's dead, the masamune coated in her blood. We see him awaken one Aerith who encourages him to fight - Tifa and the others see a version of him holding her with a pool of blood underneath her. It's not clear if this is Cloud hallucinating or not, but it might be a version of Aerith trying to help him keep it together by pretending to be alive. You defeat Jenova Life Clinger, and then Sephiroth in his Birth of a God form. Super! Then you and Aerith (not sure if that's the ur-Aerith from the dreams but I think so) fight and defeat him. And he seems genuinely put out by that for a moment, then he laughs and flies off. They're at the pool in the city of the Ancients, and after a glitch Cloud sees Aerith there as well. Tifa explicitly does not, but does see him standing with a space left for Aerith. This could be this world's Aerith trying to help Cloud keep it together? But then he sees the scar in the sky that the others don't, so maybe he's caught between realities... There still seems to a difference between the Jenova posing as Sephiroth at the City of the Ancients who calls Cloud a puppet and the one between worlds who wants him to understand and lend him his strength, but I'm not sure. It could be lending his strength in the reunion after all. I'm also not sure how Cloud ended to with the black materia (I guess from defeating Jenova but we never see that) or why it merges with the Buster sword. I do not regret any of the time I spent with this game but I would like to figure out what I think is going on with some of that, even in the abstract. Curious what other people think, especially about different Sephiroths and whether Aerith at the end is a ghost from this world or something else.
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# ? Apr 22, 2024 11:40 |
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I like the way that Jenova feels like this very active threat. I'm also increasingly sure that Queen's Blood was somehow a retelling of Jenova's original story (i.e. she is the Shadowblood Queen on some level) but I don't really know if they'll go anywhere with it.
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# ? Apr 22, 2024 12:16 |
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The cheevo you get at the end of the game is Confluence of Worlds, so I'm under the impression that A) Cloud saved Aerith B) it got smushed into the OG timeline where Cloud didn't save Aerith. We're now reading a Choose Your Own Adventure book where we could have gone to page 50 or page 60 and instead the pages are superimposed
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# ? Apr 22, 2024 12:59 |
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Cavelcade posted:You defeat Jenova Life Clinger, and then Sephiroth in his Birth of a God form. Super! Then you and Aerith (not sure if that's the ur-Aerith from the dreams but I think so) fight and defeat him. And he seems genuinely put out by that for a moment, then he laughs and flies off. So I think the goal of Whisper Sephiroth is not to force the game to follow OG path, but to follow a path where Sephiroth actually wins. To do this he needed to open the possibility for the story to change, which he did with Cloud et. al. at the end of Remake. But that made there be possible universes where he loses even more, so the final battle is him trying to cut off the possible worlds to those where Aertih dies and everything is as bad or worse than OG for Cloud. Cloud and Ur-Aerith prevent him from doing that in that final battle, so he is miffed that he hasn't secured a total victory yet; there are still possible worlds where Aerith is alive. And then he laughs because he still has the chance to kill everyone at the Northern Crater and Cloud is going to be more mentally unstable than ever for that.
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# ? Apr 22, 2024 15:20 |
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Also, it's not quite clear, but Sephiroth was about to Win 'here'. His goal, the amassment of great power through the unification of disparate possibilities was entirely within his grasp, his big speech about making you feel anger/despair and how powerful those emotions were? The full LBs for everyone but Cloud? The reason he failed was that Cloud didn't succumb to those emotions and have a full LB gauge. Cloud (Due to his belief/reality of having saved aerith) kept Sephiroth from being able to absorb the power he needed. Him leaving in the final battle was an admission his plans had utterly failed at this point. He could no longer route a path to victory, and he wasn't going to get any kills.
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# ? Apr 22, 2024 16:05 |
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# ? May 11, 2024 15:35 |
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In the Nibelheim proto-relic quest, there is the cutscene with Hojo talking about Chadley. Does this get followed up at all or is it just a teaser for Part 3? I noped out of doing the Summon fights for the final proto-relic quest.
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# ? Apr 22, 2024 22:51 |