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Enjoy posted:The logistics side is definitely my favourite part of HoI4. Researching tech, designing the equipment, putting it into production lines, designing the formation the equipment will be fielded by, then training the divisions and sending reinforcements to them in the field... the whole thing is interconnected, it's amazing. Have any other games tried to do something similar? 4x games like Master of Orion or Stellaris basically ignore equipment as a tangible resource you have to produce and stockpile https://store.steampowered.com/app/1154840/Shadow_Empire/ Shadow Empire (and Advanced Tactics Gold before it)
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Apr 21, 2024 17:57
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gradenko_2000 posted:I think it was Len Hafer from Three Moves Ahead that said that one of Imperator's issues was that there was just no way you could get people interested in most of the factions in the game except as targets to be conquered. Yeah, I think it's this. The closer a game has to factions that you can relate to, the more interested people will be in playing it. Hearts of Iron is the closest to modern day and has a lot of countries that still exist in the modern day or the ability to form them, while following historical narratives you've read and watched about extensively. And in Crusader Kings, the relatability factor comes from the ability to roleplay. With Imperator, people watch movies, shows, and documentaries about Ancient Rome, the Greeks, Carthage, and Persia, but most other factions are completely unknown to the average person. And if the game isn't going to give these unknown factions any character either, then you have little reason to care about them. This isn't the only factor that matters (otherwise EU4 wouldn't be more popular than Vicky 3), but it seems like a pretty big one.
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Apr 21, 2024 18:13
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I think the only names on Imperator map that are still there on the map are Egypt and Armenia. Unlike, say, EU4, where most modern countries are one step from being formed by somebody if not already there. The density and detail of Imperator doesn't really work for most people. Total War games approach of making just a few playable factions with every one having some charged identity works better for a setting like this. I like how Fields of Glory Empires handles this: it is a much more abstracted than I:R and most of the map is filled with passive "independents", including even parts of Greece (Olympia is a free real estate), which sounds primitive but this also means that every single country present on the map has a unique description, traits, something.
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Apr 21, 2024 18:46
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Imperator's start date is a weakness too, i feel, because Egypt, the Seleucids, the Antigonids and Mauryas already feel like end game empires. Being around them is daunting. These games work better when you start small or middle sized and work your way up.
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Apr 21, 2024 18:53
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I'll agree relatability is a major plus for games, but I think you can get people interested in unknown factions if you do it right. Total War tends to nail it, and Imperator utterly failed.
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Apr 21, 2024 19:02
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HoI is popular because it's the most focused game in a time period people know and are fond of.
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Apr 21, 2024 19:10
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I like it in a kind of "What if *Allied country* prepped for WW2 like this" way, but HoI 4's AI is pretty terrible.
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Apr 21, 2024 19:15
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HoI4's unquestionably a beer-and-pretzels (and specifically beer-and-pretzels, not vodka-and-chechil or sake-and-arare) sim at best, but to some degree I find that more forgivable, or at least more explicable, with something set in recent history--there is a very clear modern western doctrine, say, so its thought processes being the baseline for a game from a western studio even if they're not necessarily supported or if they don't match how even the west actually fought the war makes sense in a way that isn't nearly as clear as time winds back. It also makes for a very satisfying gameplay loop, which I think explains a good amount of the popularity. Take personal command of the things that go vroom and produce measurable swings in the overall war over the course of a few dozen ticks, regroup and repeat, rather than waiting on advancement counters or siege rolls.
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Apr 21, 2024 19:55
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gradenko_2000 posted:I think it was Len Hafer from Three Moves Ahead that said that one of Imperator's issues was that there was just no way you could get people interested in most of the factions in the game except as targets to be conquered. Lmao if you play any classical game as Rome
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Apr 21, 2024 21:36
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HoI4 is the best Fallout game since New Vegas. Kaiserreich is cool too. I think I'm approaching 4 digit hours played and I'm at 0 achievements thanks to only playing modded.
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Apr 21, 2024 21:52
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Frionnel posted:Imperator's start date is a weakness too, i feel, because Egypt, the Seleucids, the Antigonids and Mauryas already feel like end game empires. Being around them is daunting. These games work better when you start small or middle sized and work your way up. Yeah, as fun as "the Diadochi wars might go differently every game!" might seem from a design perspective, having a map with a few gigantic empires and everything else is barely a city state isn't great for giving a lot of interesting options. In retrospect the EU: Rome start date was probably a better choice.
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Apr 21, 2024 23:01
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This is true but on the bright side there's (to my fuzzy recollections of both games) a daunting amount more space in to exist as a smallish state coming to grips with the mechanics in Imperator vs EU Rome since the map is so much bigger unfortunately most of it never gets played because all the places anyone knows/who aren't tribals are in the thick of the superpower mess, so you get the choice of "play Rome", "play an endgame threat when you barely know the game", "get crushed by said endgame threat", or "play someone small enough and safe enough to learn with but with no theme or flavour or pre-existing historical knowledge on your part to connect to" in retrospect it's a marvel the game is as popular as it is that said I still want to try it again and helpfully it isn't currently a moving target like, say, CK3 Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Apr 21, 2024 |
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Apr 21, 2024 23:29
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ilitarist posted:
wasn't that before they were publicly traded
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Apr 21, 2024 23:34
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ilitarist posted:I think the only names on Imperator map that are still there on the map are Egypt and Armenia. Unlike, say, EU4, where most modern countries are one step from being formed by somebody if not already there. Macedonia erasure. I agree with other posters for real. Imperator should have taken a clue from Total War and started with Pyrrhus in Italy as the Byz challenge to Rome’s Ottomans. soviet elsa fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Apr 22, 2024 |
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Apr 22, 2024 00:00
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People get mad at parts of the map being empty but the only people playing Tannu Tuva or Ryukyu are doing it for the memes.
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Apr 22, 2024 00:10
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ilitarist posted:Years ago Paradox were willing to rework a lot of HoI4 after they showed alpha version to people, even back then they knew they can't make any mistakes with their biggest games. I was at this preview event and this is pretty much how it went. They put us in a very small scenario (invade poland) and it was some great visuals and promising concepts but the systems clearly weren't working as intended with Dan Lind and another developer, who I regret I cannot remember the name of, being quite enthusiastic about the parts that worked and doing small frowns about the bits that didn't. Lo and behold a few months later at E3 they publicly delay it to mid-2016. Ironically I almost immediately afterward had hands-on with a really impressive near-final build of Cities Skylines. Stairmaster posted:wasn't that before they were publicly traded Yes
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Apr 22, 2024 00:35
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JonBolds posted:I was at this preview event and this is pretty much how it went. Oh hey, it's you. I remember this story from Three Moves Ahead episode, I think. soviet elsa posted:Macedonia erasure. It really is a problem even for TW where the lost of playable factions is limited and each one gets special treatment with VA, art and gameplay. People don't want to play as Pontus. Lately they switched to character-focused factions but it limits the scope a lot and I'm not sure how well it works outside of adaptations of character-focused novels like Three Kingdoms and Troy.
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Apr 22, 2024 08:02
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Stairmaster posted:wasn't that before they were publicly traded The majority shareholders of Paradox post-IPO are the same people as before the IPO.
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Apr 22, 2024 18:34
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Imperator Rome is on sale until May 9th in celebration of a new patch being released, for those of you who want to start Maximusmaxxing
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Apr 25, 2024 10:05
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Folks, I am trying to get into Hearts of Iron 3. I chose it because it's a little more military grand strategy than most solitaire economy/military simulation games and unfortunately I've been watching a lot of history documentaries. The game is kind of poorly documented, has several DLCs and mods, and because it is over ten years old I'm having trouble finding ancient forums posts and videos that succinctly summarize key concepts like production gearing (practicals), supply, and the cost benefit of certain tools (diplomatic influence vs spy political party support). Is the only way to kind of get a sign post of how I'm doing actually spending 600 hours in the game? I just want to know if my run is hosed because transport ships take 2/3rds of a year to build and I am in 1937 already and need to reinforce Prussia to invade Poland. I only have the base game.  I'll buy the mods when they go on sale and wanted to do a vanilla run before trying black ice, which is supposed to smooth over some delicious bullshit I want to experience.
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Apr 25, 2024 16:13
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Why 3 and not 4? There's not really going to be a lot of resources for 3 around these days
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Apr 25, 2024 16:20
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The most obvious suggestion is to just play Hearts of Iron 4. It's a far better game in almost every possible way and is much better documented and tutorialized as well.
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Apr 25, 2024 16:22
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Even if there are probably some that would argue as to the quality between HoI3 and HoI4, I don't think there'd be much argument that HoI3 is, like, the worst game to try and get into. You'd go through many, many headaches to get anywhere, and very few people can actually help.
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Apr 25, 2024 16:28
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I don't like the front line bar, I wanna build chits and right click them to the front line. Otherwise I'd play Vicky 3!
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Apr 25, 2024 16:30
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Toalpaz posted:I don't like the front line bar, I wanna build chits and right click them to the front line. if that’s what you’re looking for instead of an absolutely insane number of provinces and OOB system you should probably pick up darkest hour instead
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Apr 25, 2024 16:37
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Toalpaz posted:I don't like the front line bar, I wanna build chits and right click them to the front line. I have bad news for you regarding HoI3's Theater system.
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Apr 25, 2024 16:46
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Just play aresenal of democracy which is about to get a big update
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Apr 25, 2024 16:57
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In the absence of a much longer post since I am on my phone you really want to play Arsenal of Democracy if pushing counters around is your jam and if you insist on HOI3 you really want all of the DLC because the base game is very bad/busted.
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Apr 25, 2024 17:02
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I don't think you all understand, no one has tricked me into playing HoI3 and I will do so whether I recieved assistance or not. I was just vibe checking the room to see if there were old people who remembered it and loved it and were knowledgeable.
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Apr 25, 2024 17:05
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Okay if you're an unironic HOI3 holdout I am going to effortpost about it in the morning.
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Apr 25, 2024 17:08
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Toalpaz posted:people who remembered it and loved it i have found the error in your logic
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Apr 25, 2024 17:08
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lol hoi3 was awful
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Apr 25, 2024 17:14
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My favorite part of HoI3 was that you could automate basically everything in the game. Good times.
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Apr 25, 2024 17:16
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Hoi 3 was bad and most people played modded hoi2 til 4 came out.
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Apr 25, 2024 17:21
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my evil secret is i think hoi4 is also bad 
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Apr 25, 2024 17:23
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I think the whacky alt-history mission trees are both the best and worst part of HOI4, and it's all thanks to or the fault of All the Russias/Kaiserreich.
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Apr 25, 2024 17:29
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We found the one hoi3 holdout
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Apr 25, 2024 17:40
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:We found the one hoi3 holdout
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Apr 25, 2024 17:51
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Toalpaz posted:I was just vibe checking the room to see if there were old people who remembered it and loved it and were knowledgeable. Radia posted:my evil secret is i think hoi4 is also bad After that DLC the focus trees went off the deep end. And I'm not saying "oh its dumb Turkey can form Turania" or "Bulgaria can subjugate then annex all of the Balkans way too easily" but more of a "I cant do basic poo poo without needing to spend what feels like hours studying the focus tree to understand how to do something even remotely historical". Trying to play as the USSR post-focus tree revamp felt like an exercise in agony. edit: or coherently, because if you want to switch to Communist as France you have to jump through hoops that require tons of reading ahead through the focuses and having foreknoweldge of events that can happen by taking certain focuses. Then all the new designers started coming out. We dont need a tank designer! Or a designer designer! AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Apr 25, 2024 |
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Apr 25, 2024 19:02
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Yeah, I do wish the historical order of focuses was displayed on the national focus screen. The game knows what it is, since it's what the AI uses in historical mode. Being forced into the historical order could even be a way of raising the difficulty (especially if you're France, oh my god)
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Apr 25, 2024 20:14
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