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Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

NYT preview of the hush-money case:

Will a Mountain of Evidence Be Enough to Convict Trump?
Original (paywalled) URL: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/21/nyregion/trump-trial-hush-money-evidence.html

quote:

In the official record, the case is known as the People of the State of New York v. Donald J. Trump, and, for now, the people have the stronger hand: They have insider witnesses, a favorable jury pool and a lurid set of facts about a presidential candidate, a payoff and a porn star.

On Monday, the prosecutors will formally introduce the case to 12 all-important jurors, embarking on the first prosecution of an American president. The trial, which could brand Mr. Trump a felon as he mounts another White House run, will reverberate throughout the nation and test the durability of the justice system that Mr. Trump is attacking in a way that no other defendant would be allowed to do.

Though the district attorney, Alvin L. Bragg, has assembled a mountain of evidence, a conviction is hardly assured. Over the next six weeks, Mr. Trump’s lawyers will seize on three apparent weak points: a key witness’s credibility, a president’s culpability and the case’s legal complexity.

Prosecutors will seek to maneuver around those vulnerabilities, dazzling the jury with a tale that mixes politics and sex, as they confront a shrewd defendant with a decades-long track record of skirting legal consequences. They will also seek to bolster the credibility of that key witness, Michael D. Cohen, a former fixer to Mr. Trump who previously pleaded guilty to federal crimes for paying the porn star, Stormy Daniels.

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Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

коммунизм хранится в яичках

LeeMajors posted:

That is true but you’ve got a gradient of burns out from the full thickness portions.

Not to mention the pain of airway burns, intubation, debridement….

I’ve been a medic a long time and burns are one of the few things that give me the willies still.

Yeah, my best friend did burn therapy in a top tier burn center for a while, and has determined the precise point where they'd prefer to be killed rather than live to see treatment. Major burns are unbelievably bad.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Liquid Communism posted:

Yeah, my best friend did burn therapy in a top tier burn center for a while, and has determined the precise point where they'd prefer to be killed rather than live to see treatment. Major burns are unbelievably bad.

I don’t want to be rude or derail-y, but I really wanna know when that is now.

withak
Jan 15, 2003


Fun Shoe
It's about 37.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Xiahou Dun posted:

I don’t want to be rude or derail-y, but I really wanna know when that is now.

Well, from my personal experience with burns, it's at least worse than having your hand set ablaze and cooked. And that was pretty freakin' bad as it was.

TGG
Aug 8, 2003

"I Dare."

Liquid Communism posted:

Yeah, my best friend did burn therapy in a top tier burn center for a while, and has determined the precise point where they'd prefer to be killed rather than live to see treatment. Major burns are unbelievably bad.

Having suffered a 3rd degree burn on a large chunk of my back I can say they are very very painful. Not quite beg for death pain and it certainly didn't get into my lungs but I would take broken bones over burns any time anywhere.

Burns are horrific and there is no way out.

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually

withak posted:

It's about 37.
In a row?!?

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

Assuming the burns are on an extremity, at what point do doctors go ‘gently caress it’ and amputate? Because it sounds like if a large enough area is affected the theoretical chance of saving it is not worth the practical problems.

Agents are GO!
Dec 29, 2004

You know, I understand now why the GBS Trump thread made talking about that dude off-limits.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

Yeah, this isn’t fun to read.

Fuschia tude
Dec 26, 2004

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2019

Agents are GO! posted:

You know, I understand now why the GBS Trump thread made talking about that dude off-limits.

Trump?

dr_rat
Jun 4, 2001

Yep, threads so much happier now. Just a nice happy place to post about happy things.

Failed Imagineer
Sep 22, 2018

dr_rat posted:

Yep, threads so much happier now. Just a nice happy place to post about happy things.

Post everytime you just LOL because life is good

davecrazy
Nov 25, 2004

I'm an insufferable shitposter who does not deserve to root for such a good team. Also, this is what Matt Harvey thinks of me and my garbage posting.
Any place have a good running summation of the trial?

One thing twitter was good for was following along stuff like that, but lol logging onto twitter for any reason ever.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

davecrazy posted:

Any place have a good running summation of the trial?

One thing twitter was good for was following along stuff like that, but lol logging onto twitter for any reason ever.

NYT has live updates from the reporters in the courtroom.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/04/22/nyregion/trump-hush-money-trial

Trump's attorney is off to a strong start.

quote:

"I have a spoiler alert: There’s nothing wrong with trying to influence an election," Blanche says. "It’s called democracy."

"They put something sinister on this idea as if it were a crime," he continues. "You’ll learn it's not.”

"There is nothing illegal about entering a nondisclosure agreement."

quote:

Blanche seeks to have the jurors relate to his client, as he says Trump is doing “what any of us would do.”

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Apr 22, 2024

OgNar
Oct 26, 2002

They tapdance not, neither do they fart
e:fb

https://twitter.com/innercitypress/status/1782431808325325047


https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1782418210333118637

OgNar fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Apr 22, 2024

DTurtle
Apr 10, 2011


davecrazy posted:

Any place have a good running summation of the trial?

One thing twitter was good for was following along stuff like that, but lol logging onto twitter for any reason ever.
The Guardian has a good live blog.

quote:

At present, in advance of openings, judge Juan Merchan is instructing jurors on the law.
...
Jurors are looking at Merchan as he addresses them.

Donald Trump seems attentive. This reporter has not detected any sleepiness thus far.

quote:

As judge Juan Merchan continued with his instruction to jurors, a brief flicker of humor emerged.

Someone in the courtroom sneezed. Merchan paused his reading, said “Bless you,” and then continued.

A chuckle could be heard here and there.

quote:

Donald Trump has been frowning while Manhattan DA prosecutor Matthew Colangelo tells the jury about Trump’s alleged affair with Stormy Daniels.

He has kept his eyes trained downwards on the table. Trump has also occasionally cocked his head to the side while fiddling with papers in front of him.

With his brow still furrowed, Trump appears frustrated for the first time as Colangelo reads out part of the infamous Access Hollywood tape to the jury, where he brags about grabbing women “by the pussy” – after which he passes a note to his lawyer Emil Bove.

quote:

And now it’s the defense’s turn.

Defense attorney Todd Blanche is telling jurors:
"President Trump is innocent. President Trump did not commit any crimes. The Manhattan district attorney should never have brought this case."

Blanche is trying hard to humanize Trump, while also repeatedly calling him “President Trump”. It’s an odd balance to strike – trying to portray him as a normal guy, but also the former commander-in-chief.

Leon Sumbitches
Mar 27, 2010

Dr. Leon Adoso Sumbitches (prounounced soom-'beh-cheh) (born January 21, 1935) is heir to the legendary Adoso family oil fortune.





davecrazy posted:

Any place have a good running summation of the trial?

One thing twitter was good for was following along stuff like that, but lol logging onto twitter for any reason ever.

Hate to say it, but the GBS Trump thread is doing really well with trial updates this morning.

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4051238&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=2060

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

quote:

Blanche explains why they all call Trump “President Trump,” saying he’s earned it and it’s the office he’s held. Then he mentions that Trump is the presumptive Republican nominee.

They should keep calling him "former president trump" just to increase the chance he dies of outrage in the middle of the courtroom

OgNar
Oct 26, 2002

They tapdance not, neither do they fart
"The bonding company is good for it because I put up the money"

You can trust me, i'm Donald Trump.

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1782401277068034151

Ragequit
Jun 1, 2006


Lipstick Apathy
Are objections (all sustained) to opening statements rare? Because it just happened several times toward the defense. I don’t follow a lot of law proceedings, but that doesn’t seem common.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

Ragequit posted:

Are objections (all sustained) to opening statements rare? Because it just happened several times toward the defense. I don’t follow a lot of law proceedings, but that doesn’t seem common.

It's a very high standard to sustain such an objection. In this case they're all because the attorney is saying poo poo that was already ruled inadmissible and could potentially cause a mistrial.

McGlockenshire
Dec 16, 2005

GOLLOCKS!

OgNar posted:

"The bonding company is good for it because I put up the money"

You can trust me, i'm Donald Trump.

What time is the bond hearing?

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



McGlockenshire posted:

What time is the bond hearing?

The Hush-Money case is doing a half-day and should be ending in just a couple minutes. I'm assuming this is related to the bond hearing and it's gonna be this afternoon.

But you know how assumptions go. They just make an rear end out of "u" and "mption".

beerinator
Feb 21, 2003

Xiahou Dun posted:

The Hush-Money case is doing a half-day and should be ending in just a couple minutes. I'm assuming this is related to the bond hearing and it's gonna be this afternoon.

But you know how assumptions go. They just make an rear end out of "u" and "mption".

Bond hearing already happened this morning. The hush money case is doing a half day because of passover I think.

Trump's bond was approved but they changed it so he couldn't move the money around after the bond was accepted. For some reason that was a possibility before.

bird food bathtub
Aug 9, 2003

College Slice

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

It's a very high standard to sustain such an objection. In this case they're all because the attorney is saying poo poo that was already ruled inadmissible and could potentially cause a mistrial.

So we're on track for more wild poo poo-dribblings coming out of the mind of Trump and through the mouth of his attorney? It sounded like they had a lid on him and were presenting a sober, normally functional defense for a little bit there with the initial messages coming out but getting shut down for spouting conspiracy bullshit they were already specifically told not to say is much more in line with the new normal.

DarkHorse
Dec 13, 2006

Vroom vroom, BEEP BEEP!
Nap Ghost
Might've started after citizen Trump shared his note

I'm guessing the note said the equivalent of "commit legalistic seppuku" and his lawyers just went along with it to keep their baby client happy

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



beerinator posted:

Bond hearing already happened this morning. The hush money case is doing a half day because of passover I think.

Trump's bond was approved but they changed it so he couldn't move the money around after the bond was accepted. For some reason that was a possibility before.

Well that’s loving dumb.

Thanks for keeping me honest though! That’s nice.

Cimber
Feb 3, 2014

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

It's a very high standard to sustain such an objection. In this case they're all because the attorney is saying poo poo that was already ruled inadmissible and could potentially cause a mistrial.

God help the attorney who causes a mistrial during opening arguments. Even if they don't mistrial, they are giving a bad first impression to the jury.

Fart Amplifier
Apr 12, 2003

beerinator posted:

Bond hearing already happened this morning. The hush money case is doing a half day because of passover I think.

Trump's bond was approved but they changed it so he couldn't move the money around after the bond was accepted. For some reason that was a possibility before.

Did they keep the thing where the bond company isn't on the hook for the bond, because it's Trump who agrees to pay and the company doesn't have the assets?

What are they even going to do if Trump moves the money around?

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
Is the cash account controlled by the monitor?

Ynglaur
Oct 9, 2013

The Malta Conference, anyone?

Fart Amplifier posted:

Did they keep the thing where the bond company isn't on the hook for the bond, because it's Trump who agrees to pay and the company doesn't have the assets?

What are they even going to do if Trump moves the money around?

That's part of the problem. The financial terms of Trump giving them money gave him 48 hours before the "bond" company could take the money. I.e. enough time to switch accounts.

Retro42
Jun 27, 2011


Ynglaur posted:

That's part of the problem. The financial terms of Trump giving them money gave him 48 hours before the "bond" company could take the money. I.e. enough time to switch accounts.

Yeah, and if I'm understanding the resolution it was simply that as of today the money is solely in the possession of the bond company. Which, while not as dramatic as we would all hope, it is a decent resolution.

OgNar
Oct 26, 2002

They tapdance not, neither do they fart
https://twitter.com/joncoopertweets/status/1782257959675773040
https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1782461062454939922

Henrik Zetterberg
Dec 7, 2007

I can't even fathom spending the last 1/3 of my life sitting in court just about every single day.

Blotto_Otter
Aug 16, 2013


Fart Amplifier posted:

Did they keep the thing where the bond company isn't on the hook for the bond, because it's Trump who agrees to pay and the company doesn't have the assets?
at some point last week I read that the goofy language of the bond itself was for some statutory reason, and that KSIC would indeed be on the hook. As for KSIC not actually having the surplus to cover $175m outright, they submitted 1) the reinsurance agreement between KSIC and its parent company, which obligates the (bigger) parent company to cover KSIC's losses, and 2) a screenshot apparently showing $175m in cash in a Schwab brokerage account apparently owned by the Donald Trump Trust, along with collateral and custody agreements giving KSIC access to that account.

haveblue posted:

Is the cash account controlled by the monitor?
It sounds like that was the biggest problem that the AG's office had with it, the custody agreements didn't protect KSIC's access to the account enough for their liking.

Retro42 posted:

Yeah, and if I'm understanding the resolution it was simply that as of today the money is solely in the possession of the bond company. Which, while not as dramatic as we would all hope, it is a decent resolution.
my understanding is that the money still will not be in possession of the bond company, but the agreements will be altered to further restrict Trump's access to the brokerage account. but coverage of the hearing is still a bit murky and it could be a couple days before the new agreements get submitted to the court, I think, so who knows if I'm actually understanding it right yet.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

Retro42 posted:

Yeah, and if I'm understanding the resolution it was simply that as of today the money is solely in the possession of the bond company. Which, while not as dramatic as we would all hope, it is a decent resolution.

Practically it seems like the only effect of the bond is that Trump paid them 1% to put up the bond (per the WP) while his cash account can continue making 5% interest. In contrast to putting the money up directly in which case I assume he wouldn’t get the interest.

Seems like standard rich person shenanigans.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

mawarannahr
May 21, 2019

Keep up, partner. Posted already with greater content and context.

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mdemone
Mar 14, 2001

It's also clearly fake

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