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Daner T
Dec 24, 2004
Since the family is blessed by Xipe the Harmony Aeon I'm very curious why she gives trailblazer her blessing and their new abilities since right now their skepticism surrounding said family so far in the story.

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Gearhead
Feb 13, 2007
The Metroid of Humor
There's been a lot of theorycrafting on the lore behind some of the visual design choices in this arc. Xipe was supposed to have assimilated Ena at the end of the Swarm Disaster, but what impact did this have on those who followed Ena.. or on Xipe themselves? Ena is strongly associated with eye imagery that Xipe lacks, but there are several times in this arc where we have run into eye imagery in places it probably should not be so strongly featured.

blizzardvizard
Sep 12, 2012

Shhh... don't wake up the sleeping lion :3:

It could be my religious trauma talking but it's possible that the Family and Xipe aren't exactly aligned at the moment and the Family is just using Xipe's name/power for their own purposes, and that Xipe might want to give their power to the TB to fight the Family back.

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013

I will never log offshut up.


Robin's voice is explicitly said to echo with the power of Xipe/the Harmony and something was wrong with her voice even before Sparkle impersonated her. It does hint that the Family isn't really acting in accordance with Xipe.

librarerun
Feb 13, 2024
The fact that the Family is suffering from strong internal discord is itself at odds at how things are "supposed" to be with them.

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS
Also the hand of God touching Adam is neither a match for Ena or Xipe but has traits from both of them.

coolusername
Aug 23, 2011

cooltitletext

Gearhead posted:

There's been a lot of theorycrafting on the lore behind some of the visual design choices in this arc. Xipe was supposed to have assimilated Ena at the end of the Swarm Disaster, but what impact did this have on those who followed Ena.. or on Xipe themselves? Ena is strongly associated with eye imagery that Xipe lacks, but there are several times in this arc where we have run into eye imagery in places it probably should not be so strongly featured.

Yeah, I’d argue Ena is still in the plot in some way based on art cues alone. Like you said about the eyes, there’s a whole patch making a big deal about Aventurine’s eyes, his religious beliefs and Avgin culture, and it’s a match for Ena’s artwork - not just the eye in the background, there’s also the bead jewellery and a planet similar to the Sigonia relic set.

And pre-Penacony was an interruption that might as well have been titled “HEY DID YOU DO THE SWARM SU??? THE SWARM SU WITH MY MISSING AEON, IDRILA. THE SWARM SU THAT INCLUDES ENA AND XIPE’S MERGER AS WELL AS ENA’S BARGAIN WITH THE AMBER LORD. SWARM’S SU.”

My running theory being Gaiathra = some amalgamation/spin-off of Ena and having the last survivor of that path running around after a whole patch of Harmony mindfucking might be plot important later. Plus there’s all the sidequests about dead aeons, fake aeons and leaving paths.

Tho maybe the TB just gets a harmony blessing via super-harmoniously high-fiving someone.

Meowywitch
Jan 14, 2010

Fight for all that is beautiful in the world

4000 Sambucks and counting

JT Jag
Aug 30, 2009

#1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver
I think it's worth noting that the Trailblazer doesn't need to be on good terms with the Aeon they're channeling--- they unlocked the Destruction from Nanook just glaring at them for a while.

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"


JT Jag posted:

I think it's worth noting that the Trailblazer doesn't need to be on good terms with the Aeon they're channeling--- they unlocked the Destruction from Nanook just glaring at them for a while.

Nanook is also the Aeon of Self-Destruction, he's relatively "okay" with his stuff being destroyed too. Also Stellarons might be Nanook stuff.

Edit: Also without Welt we would have exploded the space station.

Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Apr 28, 2024

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS
I don't think most Aeons even see mortals in "good or bad" terms, just how much they reflect the potential to keep their Path going.

librarerun
Feb 13, 2024
Pretty sure the only Aeons that even come close to operating on morality in a manner comprehensible to humans are Akivili (cause they traveled as more or less a human) and Aha (since humor doesn't work if humans can't understand if something happening is funny or "funny").

Bussamove
Feb 25, 2006

Eej posted:

I don't think most Aeons even see mortals in "good or bad" terms, just how much they reflect the potential to keep their Path going.

That’s how I see it too. Aeons are past things like good and evil, and are so consumed by the path they represent that all they notice is people and events that particularly exemplify it. And even then they don’t hold their interest long— they draw a Glance, and then move on.

Akivili seems like the exception there, but Trailblaze is a broader path than a lot of them.

coolusername
Aug 23, 2011

cooltitletext
The destruction path covers recklessness, and trying to face-tank a giant laser blast without even using a weapon or knowing what the gently caress is going on definitely falls under that.

shrach
Jan 10, 2004

daylight ssssaving time

Endorph posted:

no? why do you think it would? its assuming no phys resistance but thats it.

every enemy in the game has 1000 defense exactly at level 80, from generic silvermane guards to aventurine. theres no variance. so the only things that cause variance in character's damage assuming the same stats/buffs on them and no particular buffs or debuffs on the enemy are enemies having innate resistance to certain elements.

note: enemies at higher levels than 80 do have higher defense, but that also scales uniformly across all enemy types, so that can also easily be calculated for. the difference between a level 80 and level 100 enemy is also only about 1000ish damage, in robin's case.

Because the answer so your first paragraph about every enemy in the game has 1000 defence exactly at level 80 and there being no variance with a level 80 character is not nothing, it is a 50% damage reduction multiplier, which would turn a 15k attack into a 7.5k attack.

5000 attack power x 1.2 (attack percent) x 2.5 (crit) x 0.5 (def) = 7500. We can ignore that there are very few enemies in the game that are not higher level sure, we can also skip resistance by assuming all the enemies are weak to physical and we can skip toughness by assuming enemy is always broken but I'm just not sure how you skip defence entirely.

Bad Video Games
Sep 17, 2017


Day 3 with no loving speed boots. I don't even have attack boots with decent subs

kittenchops
Jul 24, 2013

Bad Video Games posted:

Day 3 with no loving speed boots. I don't even have attack boots with decent subs

I just do the thing where I synthesize boots with speed. Farming for speed boots feels so futile. Also I save every purple speed boot to help make a character usable.

I hate how they make speed boots basically required on all but a few characters and also make them so rare.

Meowywitch
Jan 14, 2010

Fight for all that is beautiful in the world

Bad Video Games posted:

Day 3 with no loving speed boots. I don't even have attack boots with decent subs

every time I blow my 3x charges on the lovely healing set that only Huox2 wants to try (and fail) to get a single piece of speed boots I die a little inside

Meowywitch
Jan 14, 2010

Fight for all that is beautiful in the world

please ladies and gentle goons, you are probably already doing this but remember to lock EVERY single Speed boot and Energy ropes you get, even if you don't think you need them right now , or even if the set sucks

Lazy_Liberal
Sep 17, 2005

These stones are :sparkles: precious :sparkles:
i lock or trash every relic every time 😤

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

shrach posted:

Because the answer so your first paragraph about every enemy in the game has 1000 defence exactly at level 80 and there being no variance with a level 80 character is not nothing, it is a 50% damage reduction multiplier, which would turn a 15k attack into a 7.5k attack.

5000 attack power x 1.2 (attack percent) x 2.5 (crit) x 0.5 (def) = 7500. We can ignore that there are very few enemies in the game that are not higher level sure, we can also skip resistance by assuming all the enemies are weak to physical and we can skip toughness by assuming enemy is always broken but I'm just not sure how you skip defence entirely.

Plus 50% Damage bonus is an obvious number left off there. She's a Harmony, her 3 turn Damage bonus is one of the reasons she exists. Another would be LC, which hey. Free one that adds another 30% Damage. Then there's the orb. By the time you are done you have about 110% added Damage. She makes a big number, which even with defense stays a big number. That's how you get 15k hits without trying too hard.

Bad Video Games
Sep 17, 2017


kittenchops posted:

I just do the thing where I synthesize boots with speed. Farming for speed boots feels so futile. Also I save every purple speed boot to help make a character usable.

I hate how they make speed boots basically required on all but a few characters and also make them so rare.

They'll show up eventually.

I'm changing Ratio's set from the Imaginary to the Dream Diver. I'm not sure if the new set is even that much extra damage, though his crit ratio has improved slightly. Worse case scenario, he just sits in a 2pc/2pc until the right boots come along. I wouldn't even mind putting him in attack boots as long as they have double crit.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

shrach posted:

Because the answer so your first paragraph about every enemy in the game has 1000 defence exactly at level 80 and there being no variance with a level 80 character is not nothing, it is a 50% damage reduction multiplier, which would turn a 15k attack into a 7.5k attack.

5000 attack power x 1.2 (attack percent) x 2.5 (crit) x 0.5 (def) = 7500. We can ignore that there are very few enemies in the game that are not higher level sure, we can also skip resistance by assuming all the enemies are weak to physical and we can skip toughness by assuming enemy is always broken but I'm just not sure how you skip defence entirely.
the 15000 damage is taking into account the 1000 defense.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

why did you go off so half-cocked about this.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

and also the damage is assuming they arent broken, not that they are. toughness doesnt reduce the damage you deal as it scales up, thats just a binary broken/not-broken check.

Endorph fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Apr 28, 2024

shrach
Jan 10, 2004

daylight ssssaving time
All enemies have an extra 10% damage reduction when they are not broken. It's only when they are broken, there's no damage reduction. I just hadn't accounted for the 80% damage from her skill/light cone, which I hadn't seen mentioned previously in any of the calculations which is close enough to balancing out the defence I guess.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

shrach posted:

All enemies have an extra 10% damage reduction when they are not broken. It's only when they are broken, there's no damage reduction.
i know. thats what im saying. im saying the amount of toughness they have doesnt matter, so its very easy to take that into account.

if youre curious on the scaling, with the same setup

level 80 enemy with 20% phys res: 12k
level 90 enemy with 0 phys res: 14.3k
level 90 enemy with 20% phys res: 11.5k
level 100 enemy with 0 phys res: 13.7k
level 100 enemy with 20% phys res: 10.9k
etc.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.
The fact that everything takes 90% damage by default and 100% when broken is so annoying to me. Like, they take 11.11% more damage while broken? Why has Hoyoverse cursed us with these dumb numbers forever?

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

It's basically a small way to make all the big numbers on eidolon and light cones slightly smaller than they actually appear half the time. So they can make them bigger to look more enticing.

Dazerbeams
Jul 8, 2009

Beautiful speed boots with double crit. Every upgrade went to effect hit rate.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Dazerbeams posted:

Beautiful speed boots with double crit. Every upgrade went to effect hit rate.
this is why i hope this game gets some of the epic seven gear features like being able to reset gear to level 0, being able to swap one substat out for another with worse rolls, etc. epic seven has pvp (lol) so it needs more ways to mitigate gear RNG but its still nice for that stuff to exist i think.

Bad Video Games
Sep 17, 2017


Dazerbeams posted:

Beautiful speed boots with double crit. Every upgrade went to effect hit rate.

I might accept that for Ratio.

The real fun is going to be grinding the Healer set for Luocha. I want to give him actual damage stats.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Dazerbeams posted:

Beautiful speed boots with double crit. Every upgrade went to effect hit rate.
Skill issue:

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

doing the diver/watchmaker domain and getting a bunch of atk/crit dmg/crit chance/spd watchmaker pieces and a bunch of hp/def/speed/break effect diver pieces is gonna be one of my reasons why

dioxazine
Oct 14, 2004

It hurts to know that I've not finished quantum cave yet.

Not So Fast
Dec 27, 2007


Endorph posted:

doing the diver/watchmaker domain and getting a bunch of atk/crit dmg/crit chance/spd watchmaker pieces and a bunch of hp/def/speed/break effect diver pieces is gonna be one of my reasons why

Sounds like the game wants you to pull Boothill?

JT Jag
Aug 30, 2009

#1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

Endorph posted:

this is why i hope this game gets some of the epic seven gear features like being able to reset gear to level 0, being able to swap one substat out for another with worse rolls, etc. epic seven has pvp (lol) so it needs more ways to mitigate gear RNG but its still nice for that stuff to exist i think.
Yeah, I'd kill for a second version of Self-Modeling Resin that just takes a single substat and all of the boosts it has gotten and lets you change it to a different substat of your choice

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS
Be the change you want to see, start submitting it as feedback in the open part of the surveys

bitprophet
Jul 22, 2004
Taco Defender

Clarste posted:

Skill issue:

Are the chevrons (instead of numbers in circles) marking which stats got upgrades also a skill issue, or is this a screenshot of one of those third party relic rating sites?

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Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

bitprophet posted:

Are the chevrons (instead of numbers in circles) marking which stats got upgrades also a skill issue, or is this a screenshot of one of those third party relic rating sites?

3rd party. It's easier for me to switch to a different browser tab than open up the game.

Edit: Here's the same thing in-game:

Clarste fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Apr 28, 2024

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