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Gucci Loafers posted:In the scheme of things, it's not that he doesn't need those votes. It's those are the least of a priority.
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May 5, 2024 21:01
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Gucci Loafers posted:In the scheme of things, it's not that he doesn't need those votes. It's those are the least of a priority. Muslim voters in Michigan. When a state is as closely divided as MI has been over the past decade, 1% of voters (or even a fraction of 1%) can make a major difference. VitalSigns posted:Doubtful. Yeah, I agree with this. If there's any lesson to be gleaned from US foreign policy over the past century or so, it's that there's a lot of continuity between presidencies.
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May 5, 2024 21:09
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:Don't worry, I'm sure we'll all see come November. Maybe, things could change but as it now I/P is a low priority. Majorian posted:Muslim voters in Michigan. When a state is as closely divided as MI has been over the past decade, 1% of voters (or even a fraction of 1%) can make a major difference. I'm well aware there is a large Muslim population but the thing is not all of them are going to vote and you also have other groups too. Remember, Hilary lost 2016 because White Blue Collar Auto workers stayed home on voting day or flipped for Trump.
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May 5, 2024 21:24
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If the war is still going on by the time people start voting, it's going to be a factor. We're getting massive waves of student protests, rich kids getting shot with rubber bullets, support for Israel nosediving, an ongoing ICJ case, and a rapidly radicalizing Israel & its officials publicly attacking Americans. If that's all still in play 6 months from now, and Biden hasn't changed his tune, and especially if Netanyahu stumps for Trump again, then it's going to impact votes. The issue with priority polls is that they don't cover whether or not the subject could make them change their vote, they're just asked to pick one they care most about. Someone who picks Abortion as their #1 issue might still be disillusioned against voting for Biden if he continues to come off as inhumane on Israel. We've actually seen the inverse on Gun Control; a lot of people say they care a lot about Gun Control, but virtually nobody makes their support contingent on being pro-Gun Control. Anti-Gun Control is significantly smaller, but they're spread out across several important states, cross party borders, and will vote against politicians who regulate their rifles. So we don't see progress on that outside of lame ducks and supermajorities.
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May 5, 2024 21:47
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Gucci Loafers posted:I'm well aware there is a large Muslim population but the thing is not all of them are going to vote and you also have other groups too. Remember, Hilary lost 2016 because White Blue Collar Auto workers stayed home on voting day or flipped for Trump. You asked for an example of "a particular demographic that deeply cares about I/P that could significantly influence the election." I gave you one. The fact that there are other demographics in Biden's coalition that may desert him (young voters especially) kind of proves my point: he can't take strategically vital segments of his coalition for granted. So I turn your question around to you: what demographics is Biden hoping to win over (or, if they are already part of his coalition, secure) with his hardline pro-Zionism stance? Are there enough undecided Zionist voters who will only vote for him if he continues this hardline stance? What is the domestic political calculus at work here? Or is it just an insane ideological commitment to Zionism that's guiding Biden during this mass slaughter?
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May 5, 2024 21:55
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Majorian posted:So I turn your question around to you: what demographics is Biden hoping to win over (or, if they are already part of his coalition, secure) with his hardline pro-Zionism stance? I totally agree with the first half of your post - both that Muslims in Michigan are a significant voting demographic that are clearly less likely to vote for him due to his Gaza policy, and that you answered the poster's question before they moved the goalposts. But I think your question has such an obvious answer that I'm not sure why you didn't just acknowledge it: one major voter demographic Biden helps secure by continuing a pro-Zionism policy is the one that Zionism itself is meant to serve, and the demographic that within the Democratic party that is by far most committed to Zionism: Jews, duh. There is polling evidence that the median American Jew is more emotionally invested in the war than the median American Muslim. One way to explain this is that Palestine is a small part of the Muslim world, and important to the Muslim religion, but Israel is almost half of the Jewish world, and totally central to the Jewish religion. quote:In the U.S., 62% of Jews and 53% of Muslims report that hearing or reading news about the Israel-Hamas war makes them afraid. In other religious and nonreligious groups, the share expressing fear is lower. Jews are also more likely than other U.S. religious groups to say news about the conflict makes them feel angry. If Biden were to be seen as "giving in" to protests that are widely condemned as antisemitic (they aren't, but we're talking about the political calculus here), or abandoning the idea that the State of Israel has a right to sovereignty throughout all the land it currently controls, he might very easily lose more Jewish voters than he gains Muslim voters. In order to facilitate exactly this sort of pragmatic Zionist calculation, the American-Israeli Cooperative Enterprise out together a table comparing the Jewish population in each state to Biden's margin of victory in that state. Obviously not all of these Jews are eligible voters, but you can see their relevance in states like Pennsylvania, Georgia, Arizona, Nevada. quote:State Jewish Population 2020 Biden Margin quote:Or is it just an insane ideological commitment to Zionism that's guiding Biden during this mass slaughter? Obviously Biden has that commitment, but it's not *just* this - there is a large share of voters who share his ideological commitment to Zionism and who would be much more likely to abandon him if he abandoned it. And, maybe more importantly, there are donors who are either ideologically committed to Zionism or financially invested in the Israeli-military-American-industrial-complex. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 22:27 on May 5, 2024 |
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May 5, 2024 22:18
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You’re making not very accurate assumption that democratic Jewish voters skew heavily Zionist
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May 5, 2024 22:25
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Civilized Fishbot posted:But I think your question has such an obvious answer that I'm not sure why you didn't just acknowledge it: one major voter demographic Biden helps secure by continuing a pro-Zionism policy is the one that Zionism itself is meant to serve, and the demographic that within the Democratic party that is by far most committed to Zionism: Jews, duh. Well, but the reason why I didn't acknowledge it is because I don't think it's quite so obvious that he's going to benefit that much electorally by catering to Zionist Jews. It's especially not obvious (at least to me) that he will gain enough votes to offset what he's losing in young and/or Muslim voters (or, indeed, young Jewish voters who don't support Israel's actions). Since at least February, a majority of Jewish Democrats have supported a ceasefire. Is there any real indication that Jewish voters in Biden's coalition would abandon him if he were to be less supportive of Israel's genocidal campaign? It would be helpful to have some data about how Zionist attitudes are distributed throughout the country by state; I'll try to dig some up later.
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May 5, 2024 22:28
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fool of sound posted:You’re making not very accurate assumption that democratic Jewish voters skew heavily Zionist Relative to the rest of the party they absolutely do. Read these figures keeping in mind that 70% of American Jews are Democrats, far above the national composition which is about 50/50. quote:By comparison, 89% of Jewish Americans say Israel’s reasons for fighting Hamas are valid – far more than the 58% of all U.S. adults who say this. Obviously Republican Jews skew even more Zionist than our Democrats, but the average Jew is more Zionist than the average American even when we don't control for party alignment. The least-Zionist 70% of American Jews is more Zionist than the least-Zionist 50% of Americans overall. I wish Pew made it easier by supplying straightforward cross tabs, but these polls confirm to me what basically every Jewish antizionist organizer, including me, will tell you: Jewish Democrats are, by and large, staunch liberal Zionists. Even Bernie Sanders dragged his feet on calling for a ceasefire! Biden's calculations here aren't limited to Jewish votes - there's donation money and the ideological commitments shared among his inner circle. Just trying to answer the question "what significant voter demographic wants Biden to be Zionist" with the obvious answer. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 22:53 on May 5, 2024 |
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May 5, 2024 22:41
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Another thing is that there is a gradient of possible actions that support Israel, it's not a binary choice between unlimited lethal aid commitment or shouting "from the river to the sea" at the State of the Union address. Does he have to cosign every single horrible atrocity that's infuriating Muslim Democrats in order to hang on to any Zionist votes? Does he have to cheer on the beatings and gassing of young people or he loses every single Zionist vote? Probably not, right. He could probably keep most Zionist votes by making lethal aid contingent on red lines against the worst atrocities, and pick up some pro-Palestinian votes. He could probably protect Americans' constitutional rights instead of justifying beating teens for protesting his actions, even if he ignored what they had to say, and still be fine with all but the most rabid Zionists. So even from a maximizing votes perspective, fully backing the destruction of hospitals, machine-gunning of breadlines, and carpet bombing refugee camps while cracking the skulls of the youth vote at home does not seem like the optimal course. TLDR: it may be true that Biden has to side with Israel to maximize his votes. It is probably not true that he has to go as far in that support as he has. It's likely his extremism has gone far enough to start hurting him. He just doesn't care about winning as much as he does about killing Palestinians. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 23:04 on May 5, 2024 |
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May 5, 2024 22:43
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VitalSigns posted:Doubtful. You listed things Trump did to support Israel despite making noise about opposing wars. That's my point. He's all in on helping Israel.
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May 5, 2024 22:53
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3rdEyeDeuteranopia posted:You listed things Trump did to support Israel despite making noise about opposing wars. Oh I agree, I just don't think he will abandon the intervention in Ukraine no matter what he says om the campaign trail. It's just too important to the ruling class. The people who think he would be better on Israel are wrong as well. The foreign policy of both parties is identical for the most part and Trump was no exception last time around. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 23:01 on May 5, 2024 |
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May 5, 2024 22:59
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Majorian posted:Well, but the reason why I didn't acknowledge it is because I don't think it's quite so obvious that he's going to benefit that much electorally by catering to Zionist Jews. It's especially not obvious (at least to me) that he will gain enough votes to offset what he's losing in young and/or Muslim voters (or, indeed, young Jewish voters who don't support Israel's actions). Since at least February, a majority of Jewish Democrats have supported a ceasefire. Another way to interpret that poll is "almost half of Jewish Democrats, far more than among Democrats in general, oppose a ceasefire." So if you're looking for the demographic Biden is looking to secure through his Israel policy, it makes sense to start there. Either way, I think the trouble with questions like this is that "a ceasefire" means very different things to different people, as we've seen in this thread. It's more vague than asking about a generic Democrat or generic Republican which we know is a weak predictor of how the public will receive an actual warts-and-all candidate. And my final concern here would be that it's dated before the Columbia protests, which a variety of media sources have used to imply that ceasefire advocates are in fact dangerous antisemites infesting your local college. It might still be among the best data on this question. I do agree that the publicly available data here is really lacking. You know who might have the best data on this is the DNC and the GOP, and the inference from their strong Zionist stances is bad. The median American Jewish Democrat is much more committed to Zionism, and offended by anti-Zionism, than the median Democrat. And the ongoing war has profoundly intensified this as voters, even those who think Netanyahu is a crook or the IDF is "going too far", experience anxiety about their own safety as American Jews and intertwine that anxiety with supposed existential threats to the Israeli state or people. Maybe I'm projecting my anecdotal experience onto ambiguous data, but it's also the anecdotal experience of basically every American Jew I know except the ones whose families were already leftists or Republicans. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 23:11 on May 5, 2024 |
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May 5, 2024 23:04
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As far as I know the DNC doesn't *have* a strong official position on Gaza right now. Obviously it takes a bit for them to buck a sitting president and the state and national platforms for the year are still in progress. I'm waiting pretty intently to see what happens in the Texas party.
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May 5, 2024 23:14
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That's a good point, I used DNC and GOP loosely to mean "Democratic/Republican party bureaucracy who conduct their own polls", I should've said "the Biden and Trump campaign operations" instead probably.
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May 5, 2024 23:16
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:It's because he doesn't want to outright state that he doesn't think Hamas doesn't care about Palestinians, so he hides behind "well it's an organization not an individual also it's complicated" No. Both groups involved perceive themselves as protecting and defending the populations they are within. But that’s used as a motivation and justification for a huge amount of absolutely terrible human behavior both in group behaviors and individual behaviors. It’s a way in humans are manipulated into violence. It might even be the easiest way.
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May 5, 2024 23:22
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Bar Ran Dun posted:No. This doesn't count as "cares about" to you? Why not just answer yes?
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May 5, 2024 23:31
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Bar Ran Dun posted:But that’s used as a motivation and justification for a huge amount of absolutely terrible human behavior both in group behaviors and individual behaviors. It’s a way in humans are manipulated into violence. It might even be the easiest way. But people aren't talking about humans in general, they're talking about in this specific conflict between Israel and Hamas
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May 6, 2024 00:24
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Civilized Fishbot posted:The median American Jewish Democrat is much more committed to Zionism, and offended by anti-Zionism, than the median Democrat. And the ongoing war has profoundly intensified this as voters, even those who think Netanyahu is a crook or the IDF is "going too far", experience anxiety about their own safety as American Jews and intertwine that anxiety with supposed existential threats to the Israeli state or people. Maybe I'm projecting my anecdotal experience onto ambiguous data, but it's also the anecdotal experience of basically every American Jew I know except the ones whose families were already leftists or Republicans. I think there's a lot of truth in what you're saying, but here's the big question - do you think he needs to be quite as rabidly pro-Zionist as he has been in order to secure those votes for his reelection? Would those voters only vote for Biden if he kept turning the "uncritical support for Palestinian genocide" dial up to 11? Personally I doubt it. I think Biden could have triangulated a lot more between pro- and anti-Zionist parts of his coalition, and kept most if not all of those pro-Zionist voters on his side. I think he still could do that, albeit to a much more limited extent. That would be the smart move, imo, if he wanted to maximize his chances of serving another term and keeping Trump out of office. But that's not the stance he's taken so far. Up to this point he's been about as pro-Zionist as he could get without sending in American troops to help with the genocide. So would Biden lose that many pro-Zionist Jewish votes if he had taken his foot off the gas a little bit before now? For a specific example, did he really need to bypass Congress on multiple occassions to send military aid to Israel? Would he have lost very many Jewish voters at all if he had not pulled stunts like that over the past seven months? Personally, I doubt that he would have. But I could be wrong. Majorian fucked around with this message at 00:57 on May 6, 2024 |
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May 6, 2024 00:54
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Majorian posted:I think there's a lot of truth in what you're saying, but here's the big question - do you think he needs to be quite as rabidly pro-Zionist as he has been in order to secure those votes for his reelection? Would those voters only vote for Biden if he kept turning the "uncritical support for Palestinian genocide" dial up to 11? Personally I doubt it. I think Biden could have triangulated a lot more between pro- and anti-Zionist parts of his coalition, and kept most if not all of those pro-Zionist voters on his side. I think he still could do that, albeit to a much more limited extent. That would be the smart move, imo, if he wanted to maximize his chances of serving another term and keeping Trump out of office. But that's not the stance he's taken so far. Up to this point he's been about as pro-Zionist as he could get without sending in American troops to help with the genocide. Yeah I think the specific example you chose is a good one where it must've been informed by either personal ideological commitment or military-industrial politics. And I agree that at the start of the war he had a lot more room to maneuver here. And he had even more room to manuever before the Hamas attack. At this point I think he has trapped himself into a position where, in dealing with the protests and in dealing with the Israeli state, he is much more able to lose pro-Israel voters than regain pro-Palestine voters. Especially considering that the pro-Israel voters are already being wooed by both Trump and Kennedy while pro-Palestine voters are being wooed by much less weaker operations like Jill Stein, Cornel West, the PSL. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 01:21 on May 6, 2024 |
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May 6, 2024 01:16
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VitalSigns posted:Doubtful. Has Trump said anything to this effect? From what I've seen he's still very pro-Russia, as is the most fervent wing of the GOP.
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May 6, 2024 01:20
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Majorian posted:Yeah, I agree with this. If there's any lesson to be gleaned from US foreign policy over the past century or so, it's that there's a lot of continuity between presidencies. It's telling that Presidents often campaign heavily on domestic issues because that's actually where differences between candidates (sometimes) lie. Which is funny because they have actually relatively little direct impact on US domestic policy. IIRC even Bernie's 2016 foreign policy platform was pretty bog standard democrat because you can't really run for President of the United States and say "nah not going to bomb any more countries or stop supporting bellicose nations"
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May 6, 2024 01:28
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Civilized Fishbot posted:Yeah I think the specific example you chose is a good one where it must've been informed by either personal ideological commitment or military-industrial politics. And I agree that at the start of the war he had a lot more room to maneuver here. And he had even more room to manuever before the Hamas attack.  DeadlyMuffin posted:Has Trump said anything to this effect? From what I've seen he's still very pro-Russia, as is the most fervent wing of the GOP. His "plan" for peace is basically to pressure Ukraine to cede territory in hopes of achieving peace with Russia. Obviously neither Ukraine nor Russia will go for it, so he will likely be forced to fall back onto plan B, ie: continuing to support Ukraine to make the generals and MIC happy.
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May 6, 2024 01:30
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Majorian posted:
You're making a pretty big jump that Trump would support arming Ukraine, without any evidence. And you're ignoring that the people in his party most allied with him oppose aid to Ukraine despite what the generals and MIC want.
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May 6, 2024 01:43
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Trump and his specific part of the republican party are the primary faction opposing aid to Ukraine, the rest of the republican party is much more to the center on that point.
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May 6, 2024 02:00
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VitalSigns posted:The people who think he would be better on Israel are wrong as well. The foreign policy of both parties is identical for the most part and Trump was no exception last time around. At least outside rightwingers, I don't think anyone believes Trump is pro-peace, rather they believe that he's the most incompetent option, which is good if you prefer America's warfare & lawfare machines inoperable. For contrast, Biden has schmoozed with pretty much every major lackey in the state department, cares very much about foreign policy, and knows how this works. And what he's done with that is ensure the entirety of the government defends killing exponentially more Palestinians than every past president combined barring the Nakba. Trump is incompetent, does not give a poo poo about ForPol (he notoriously left a CIA meeting to go get ice cream), and changes his mind depending on the last person to talk to him. And as far as American power projection goes he was absolutely terrible; so long as Pakistan retains its military dictatorship Biden's already got him beat on empire expansion. He let a Venezuelan coup wither on the vine because after a meeting he decided Guaido had loser energy. Zionists would ensure that last person speaking to Trump would always be a Zionist, but you wouldn't see a unity of purpose behind him and his decisions. One of the more pragmatic Zionists would have recognized that this war is bad for Israel and pulled the plug by now. I've no faith in Electoralism, and my guess would be that Trump would just defer everything to an Israel cutout, but that's what I understand of the "Donald the Dove" narrative. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 02:04 on May 6, 2024 |
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May 6, 2024 02:02
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DeadlyMuffin posted:You're making a pretty big jump that Trump would support arming Ukraine, without any evidence. Trump was the one who originally sent lethal aid to Ukraine, a significant break with Obama's policy of only sending non-lethal aid. Actions speak louder than works. quote:And you're ignoring that the people in his party most allied with him oppose aid to Ukraine despite what the generals and MIC want. I don't think they'd particularly care if it were Trump doing it. I don't buy that they are that ideologically committed to opposing aid to Ukraine.
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May 6, 2024 02:05
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edit: nevermind. This is way off topic for this thread anyway.
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May 6, 2024 02:20
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Neurolimal posted:At least outside rightwingers, I don't think anyone believes Trump is pro-peace, rather they believe that he's the most incompetent option, which is good if you prefer America's warfare & lawfare machines inoperable. I think this is largely accurate and the bigger danger of Trumpian fascism is domestic.
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May 6, 2024 02:45
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The short time gap between this https://www.axios.com/2024/05/05/israel-us-ammunition-shipment-hold and this https://twitter.com/AP/status/1787354853745815902 is no coincidence. Really bad times ahead. 
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May 6, 2024 07:18
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What a choice. Maybe die to the bombing and the famine, or go to what are obviously concentration (and maybe extermination) camps that the Israelis have built. gently caress me.
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May 6, 2024 07:32
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DeadlyMuffin posted:You're making a pretty big jump that Trump would support arming Ukraine, without any evidence. And you're ignoring that the people in his party most allied with him oppose aid to Ukraine despite what the generals and MIC want.  He says we shouldn't intervene in Ukraine sure but what happened when Mike Johnson made a deal with democrats to do just that: Trump lauds House speaker as a ‘good person’ after Ukraine aid bill passage. Seems like he's willing to include it in deals or at least agrees when someone else does. This is also evidence. If anything, Trump will probably be more effective at funneling money to Israel and Ukraine than Biden since I don't expect the Republicans' opposition to the Ukraine War to continue if they win power and don't have to pretend to care what voters think anymore. Just like they bitched when Obama intervened in Syria but were fine with Trump doing it. Idk what to tell you, if you think Trump is the peace candidate vote for him if you want to, you're never going to convince me he's telling the truth because he has a record. If he wins and I turn out to be wrong great, but I'm not going to trust him to do anything he promises. Just acting incredulous that I don't trust Trump's word isn't a good argument, it's Trump. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 08:09 on May 6, 2024 |
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May 6, 2024 07:58
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Irony Be My Shield posted:It's true that some friendly fire occured, but the idea that it was most or all of the victims is completely ludicrous. For example, Al-Jazeera's investigation (which went against many more lurid claims from Western media) still found: About 1/3 of all killed on Oct 7th were soldiers. Not just someone who was once a soldier, but soldiers. This suggests a 1:2 ratio of soldiers to civilians. Which is precisely the ratio Israel describes in its propaganda as "unprecedented" and "the most caring for civilian populations" *in modern history* (and that's including at least several dozen if not a few hundred civilians Israel massacred on its own terms).
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May 6, 2024 08:50
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VitalSigns posted:I don't think you can conclude this simply from opinion polling, for several reasons. A big one, that I already talked about, is that most opinion polls don't tell you what percentage of people who say they support X are single-issue voters on X. Anyone who would answer "yes" to "do you support more aid to Israel", but would still vote for Biden anyway because of abortion/gay rights/Democracy/Trump Derangement Syndrome/gun control/semiconductor subsidies/whatever wouldn't actually be a lost vote. This cuts both ways of course, some number of people who don't support aid will also vote for Biden anyway. Probably a lot when you look at how low most Americans rank I/P policy. It is quite likely that if the President shifted his stance on the ongoing genocide, the polling among Democrats (including Jewish ones) would shift toward "stopping it is the right thing to do," because that is how party polarization works in the year 2024.
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May 6, 2024 09:27
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Israel focused on civilian atrocities to cover up their military defeat - I think Hamas beat Pearl Harbor numbers on the weekend 7th as far as military casualties go. But we don’t know, and the IDF isn’t likely to tell us. This was certainly more embarrassing than Pearl Harbor. The Navy was slack as hell that November and December, and they had wargamed an attack on Pearl - but they understandably for the time expected a declaration of war first. The IDF and the kibbutzim planned for exactly an attack such as October 7, and planted their nuts in the soil, so to speak. The constant stream of subsequently discredited stories of raped beheaded babies tells me that Israel didn’t think what Hamas actually did was enough to rouse worldwide opinion. The IDF also buried what looked like evidence of indiscriminate high-powered air attacks, and they buried evidence afterwards. The cool thing about obstruction of justice is that you’re supposed to draw the least favorable conclusion, not give the obstructor the benefit of the doubt. Hamas did commit war crimes. Taking civilian hostages is a war crime. It was also pointless, since Israel reacted exactly the same as if there had been no hostages. Hopefully the perpetrators will be punished - right after every IDF genocidaire is imprisoned or hanged. Fortunately, this is mere pleasant chatting. If people speaking and writing in English had final say over this, everyone in Gaza would already be dead. How I arrive at a conclusion that Hamas did little wrong and should be supported in this conflict without reservation - well, that won’t change the fact that the IDF can’t fight and Israel is broken beyond repair.
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May 6, 2024 13:58
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Preparations for the Rafah offensive are in full swing. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68961753 I'm sure this will help Israel's image of the only free democracy in the region. quote:The Association for Civil Rights in Israel (ACRI) said they had filed a request to the country's Supreme Court to issue an interim order to overturn the ban.
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May 6, 2024 14:21
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Majorian posted:Muslim voters in Michigan. When a state is as closely divided as MI has been over the past decade, 1% of voters (or even a fraction of 1%) can make a major difference.
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May 6, 2024 14:51
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All this talk of the American election is just absolutely riveting. Meanwhile, in Gazaquote:"We are horrified at details emerging from mass graves recently unearthed in the Gaza Strip. Over 390 bodies have been discovered at Nasser and Al Shifa hospitals, including of women and children, with many reportedly showing signs of torture and summary executions, and potential instances of people buried alive” https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/05/onslaught-violence-against-women-and-children-gaza-unacceptable-un-experts
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May 6, 2024 17:49
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Hamas agrees to the ceasefire deal. https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/1787523072678912407 quote:The office of Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh announced Monday that he called the prime minister of Qatar and the head of Egyptian intelligence and informed them that Hamas agreed to the proposed outline for a cease-fire deal. Israel doesn't seem to care https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1787526788727374272
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May 6, 2024 18:00
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If nothing else, it's a smart move politically if they think Israel really is going into Rafah imminently. It helps to further deligitimise the attack.
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May 6, 2024 18:08
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