p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

minidracula posted:

if I have to use containers for something (ugh), podman is the Docker-clone I should/ought to be using instead of actual Docker, right?

this is what I've somewhat intuited via osmosis semi-lately. is it correct?

podman is the Linux container system created by the company that invented containers in the 1960s-70s

# ? Apr 19, 2024 08:31

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 00:50

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Bloody posted:

feels like table stakes for a lang ityool2024

it was table stakes for a language once the Symbolics and LMI versions of the LM-2 and the Xerox 8010 shipped with ZetaLisp and Smalltalk/InterLisp-D respectively in 1981

# ? Apr 19, 2024 08:39

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Xarn posted:

CGo is nice until you try doing something WeIrD like passing around array over 2GB and it silently craps out.

Or you try using it on Windows and lol, lmao, MSVC is not supported.

despite my severe dislike for and cringing at go, I suspect based on long experience that this is more of an MSVC than a go problem

remember that MSVC pretended C ended with C89 for decades and told people to �just use C++� if they wanted any C99 feature (most of which other compilers started supporting in 1993, which is in fact what led to C99)

# ? Apr 19, 2024 08:43

Ralith: Jan 12, 2011; I see a ship in the harbor
I can and shall obey
But if it wasn't for your misfortune
I'd be a heavenly person today

Joe Chip posted:

the only part i thought was neat was the c ffi implementation (cgo) since it meant i could use crusty old (dependable, well-tested, well-supported) libraries.

go ffi is weirdly bad, I forget the details but there's a ton of extra runtime work for every foreign call

# ? Apr 19, 2024 17:29

Joe Chip: Jan 4, 2014

oh no question it's awful. it's easy enough to use at a basic level and go packages are so bad it was nice to have an escape hatch if needed. a few things off the top of my head that sucked about it:

1. anything with multithreading inside the library is a headache. i didn't have time to dig into this and for our application forcing the library to use a single thread was fine
2. hope you're not using alpine because you will find a lot of fun problems with musl. tbf this is probably more musl's fault but it was annoying to deal with (by switching to debian/glibc lol)
3. tons of explicit casting back and forth, especially if you need to use a void*

# ? Apr 19, 2024 18:19

Plorkyeran: Mar 22, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

eschaton posted:

despite my severe dislike for and cringing at go, I suspect based on long experience that this is more of an MSVC than a go problem

remember that MSVC pretended C ended with C89 for decades and told people to �just use C++� if they wanted any C99 feature (most of which other compilers started supporting in 1993, which is in fact what led to C99)

cgo is of the opinion that gcc is the only compiler that exists and happens to support clang only because clang is gcc-compatible. cl has different command-line flags from gcc and that's too difficult of a technical problem for them to solve.

# ? Apr 19, 2024 21:18

Athas: Aug 6, 2007; fuck that joker

Doesn't POSIX specify C compiler options? Seems like a bug in MSVC if it does not implement the POSIX standard correctly. (I know very little about POSIX.)

# ? Apr 19, 2024 23:36

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

cc -c -I. -o fart.o fart.c
cc -Lcircus -lclowns -o fart fart.o

is probably about the extent of it, and I think msvc supports that. MS is pretty good about supporting uselessly underspecified standards to the letter and then being as different from other implementations as possible in every other respect

# ? Apr 20, 2024 05:10

Kazinsal: Dec 13, 2011

meanwhile, on gcc, -fms-extensions is one of my favourite nasty CFLAGS to use

god I love that dirty fuckin poo poo. all aboard the transparent casting and pseudo-inheritance train, toot toot :getin:

# ? Apr 20, 2024 05:19

Xarn: Jun 26, 2015

Plorkyeran posted:

cgo is of the opinion that gcc is the only compiler that exists and happens to support clang only because clang is gcc-compatible. cl has different command-line flags from gcc and that's too difficult of a technical problem for them to solve.

Go is all about making things simple for the implementors and screw the users, so at least it is on brand.

# ? Apr 20, 2024 10:53

Cybernetic Vermin: Apr 18, 2005

meanwhile we got zig out there simply transparently bundling a full clang cross-compiling setup. which is slightly bonkers but makes for a real straightforward c compat story.

# ? Apr 20, 2024 11:35

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Plorkyeran posted:

cgo is of the opinion that gcc is the only compiler that exists and happens to support clang only because clang is gcc-compatible. cl has different command-line flags from gcc and that's too difficult of a technical problem for them to solve.

oh

oh gods

# ? Apr 20, 2024 12:00

Internet Janitor: May 17, 2008; "That isn't the appropriate trash receptacle."

quite a while ago i proposed, mostly seriously, that awk could be a good introductory programming language

one thing lead to another and i have now written a complete lil interpreter in awk

initially i was worried that building a garbage-collected heap and vm on top of awk would be unusably slow, but mawk is an absolute beast and the end result compares shockingly well to the js-based lil interpreter (which perhaps is a strong argument that i should spend some time profiling and improving js-lil)

awk is fun

# ? May 6, 2024 17:49

MononcQc: May 29, 2007

Internet Janitor posted:

quite a while ago i proposed, mostly seriously, that awk could be a good introductory programming language

one thing lead to another and i have now written a complete lil interpreter in awk

initially i was worried that building a garbage-collected heap and vm on top of awk would be unusably slow, but mawk is an absolute beast and the end result compares shockingly well to the js-based lil interpreter (which perhaps is a strong argument that i should spend some time profiling and improving js-lil)

awk is fun

dang this puts any awk I�ve ever written to shame

# ? May 6, 2024 22:36

Bloody: Mar 3, 2013

MononcQc posted:

dang this puts any awk I�ve ever written to shame

AWKward!!!

# ? May 7, 2024 01:07

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Internet Janitor posted:

(which perhaps is a strong argument that i should spend some time profiling and improving js-lil)

just make a lil to wasm compiler and use it to compile lil on demand instead of interpreting it

a bonus is that you can write it in lil and then run it in itself

# ? May 7, 2024 11:33

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

(then you switch to an s-expression syntax, and�)

# ? May 7, 2024 11:34

Xarn: Jun 26, 2015

does the lisp gimmick ever get tiring?

# ? May 7, 2024 13:22

bob dobbs is dead: Oct 8, 2017; I love peeps; Nap Ghost

if its been his opinion for 25 straight years it isnt a gimmick anymore, is it?

# ? May 7, 2024 13:26

leper khan: Dec 28, 2010; Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

bob dobbs is dead posted:

if its been his opinion for 25 straight years it isnt a gimmick anymore, is it?

dedication to the gimmick doesnt make it not a gimmick

# ? May 7, 2024 14:18

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

leper khan posted:

dedication to the gimmick doesnt make it not a gimmick

you are what you show to the world

# ? May 7, 2024 14:20

CPColin: Sep 9, 2003; Big ol' smile.

Xarn posted:

does the lisp gimmick ever get tiring?

wow pretty ableist

# ? May 7, 2024 15:10

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

eschaton posted:

just make a lil to wasm compiler and use it to compile lil on demand instead of interpreting it

V8 will go faster than this, I�m pretty sure

# ? May 7, 2024 23:28

Internet Janitor: May 17, 2008; "That isn't the appropriate trash receptacle."

there's definitely low-hanging fruit for me to improve on without using wasm

as it is, decker currently runs fine on older browsers that don't have wasm support, so it would be a strict downgrade to start relying upon it

# ? May 8, 2024 00:26

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Xarn posted:

does the lisp gimmick ever get tiring?

what gimmick?

also bob my peep you�re off by a pretty significant factor there, it�s terrifyingly close to 40

# ? May 8, 2024 09:07

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

I was literally just 7 years old when the scales fell from my eyes and I first learned to program in logo

# ? May 8, 2024 09:08

Grum: May 7, 2007

p-lang???

# ? May 23, 2024 13:24

Internet Janitor: May 17, 2008; "That isn't the appropriate trash receptacle."

p-lang thread: heads up; building code costs money

# ? May 23, 2024 18:34

minidracula: Dec 22, 2007; boo woo boo

Gotta hand it to 'em: that's a cute tiny puffin.

# ? May 23, 2024 18:40

minidracula: Dec 22, 2007; boo woo boo

p-lang thread: LLVM as a compiler

# ? May 23, 2024 18:43

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

minidracula posted:

p-lang thread: LLVM as a compiler

that does not show well with keming

V

# ? May 23, 2024 20:28

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Large language for all models? Sounds expensive

# ? May 23, 2024 20:29

redleader: Aug 18, 2005; Engage according to operational parameters

Internet Janitor posted:

p-lang thread: heads up; building code costs money

# ? May 23, 2024 22:37

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 00:50

Dijkstracula: Mar 18, 2003; You can't spell 'vector field' without me, Professor!

FYSA: I rarely check CoC so I didn't notice this thread until this afternoon but someone made a dependent types thread that might be fun if we can get some type-touchers to :justpost:

# ? Jun 2, 2024 22:10

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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