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I don't think it's really a crime to say "As president, I plan to enact policies so staggeringly lucrative to you that it is in your interest to donate money to get me elected." This isn't a quid pro quo offer to a specific person, it's just an observation that the interests of this particular group of people are heavily aligned with the policies Trump already supports. I don't see how it could be criminalized without undermining the broad concept of campaign promises based around specific policy. It is, of course, odious and reprehensible even if it's not a crime.
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May 10, 2024 11:00
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DTurtle posted:It's so telling that this isn't bigger news: Is it though? He's just telling them outright what he's going to do and that they should give him money to do it. If he wasn't going to do it unless they gave him theoney, that would be bad. I kind of think Trump is just blatantly doing what lots of politicians do, once again blowing up norms that aren't actually illegal.
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May 10, 2024 12:14
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It's supposed to be the other way around to maintain the deniability. "I plan to cut taxes and loosen up permits" and just let the checkbooks open because then it's just a private entity trying to get you in to do the thing you already want to do. You're breaking the masquerade if you do it Trump's way around (and name an actual price tag of the extremely cartoonish figure of One Billion Dollars). Of course it's not of much note in THIS world but time was news like that would have ended a presidential run and quite likely led to a Presidential resignation if it was found out about a sitting guy
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May 10, 2024 12:18
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Jesus III posted:Is it though? He's just telling them outright what he's going to do and that they should give him money to do it. If he wasn't going to do it unless they gave him theoney, that would be bad. I kind of think Trump is just blatantly doing what lots of politicians do, once again blowing up norms that aren't actually illegal. quote:As Donald Trump sat with some of the country’s top oil executives at his Mar-a-Lago Club last month, one executive complained about how they continued to face burdensome environmental regulations despite spending $400 million to lobby the Biden administration in the last year.
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May 10, 2024 12:20
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We're I an oil executive, I'd be concerned that you'd spend $1 billion and Trump would spend it on legal bills and not get elected. Since Trump is amazing at getting people to give him money for something and then not use the money for the intended purpose. Or that if he gets elected without you spending the $1 billion, he was going to cut all those regulations anyway. Either way, it seems like a bad investment to make.
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May 10, 2024 12:24
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DTurtle posted:IMO it is. If you look at the original reporting in the Washington Post (non-paywall link), then his offer was in direct response to an executive complaining about the ineffectiveness of $400 million dollars for lobbying the Biden administration last year. And it makes the transactional nature very clear: Where did I say it was fine? Don't make poo poo up. What he did isn't a quid pro quo, he was just explaining the features of his presidency. Don't get butt hurt when he isn't indicted for this. There is no crime. There are huge moral problems with it, but politicians have been saying what they're going to do at fundraisers forever, if not so crassly.
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May 10, 2024 12:28
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DTurtle posted:
It can be both bad and totally legal, which is what we're looking at here. Trump is just too much a dumb bull in a china shop to realize, or care, that you're supposed to make it not sound like a bribe. The Question IRL posted:We're I an oil executive, I'd be concerned that you'd spend $1 billion and Trump would spend it on legal bills and not get elected. Since Trump is amazing at getting people to give him money for something and then not use the money for the intended purpose. He wants them to make a billion dollar super pac so they can do all that boring campaign stuff he doesn't care about. That way he can just do rallies and spend all the Republican Party's money on legal fees while still having a shot at winning. If he can skim some off the top or not is on tomorrow's crimes list.
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May 10, 2024 12:35
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The Question IRL posted:Or that if he gets elected without you spending the $1 billion, he was going to cut all those regulations anyway. Dude runs on spite, and doesn't care at all about what legislation he passes or doesn't.
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May 10, 2024 12:39
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I just think it’s funny that Trump has so emptied the RNC campaign coffers that he essentially needs a whole new source of campaign funding. Anyway, there is an implied crime there because there is no mechanism for a legitimate campaign contribution of the millions needed per company and attendee to get anywhere close to a billion. He’s telling them to work together to conspire to break campaign donation limit laws.
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May 10, 2024 12:39
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Didn't citizen's united make campaign contributions limits unconstitutional? All they have to do is make a PAC and they can contribute all they want, anonymously.
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May 10, 2024 12:44
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Asproigerosis posted:Didn't citizen's united make campaign contributions limits unconstitutional? All they have to do is make a PAC and they can contribute all they want, anonymously. But if they do that Trump can’t spend it on legal fees so what’s the point
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May 10, 2024 12:49
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Will it matter if Trump manages to win the election while bankrupting the RNC?
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May 10, 2024 12:57
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Star Man posted:Will it matter if Trump manages to win the election while bankrupting the RNC? Doesn't it only matter if the RNC is bankrupt if that affects the other races? Like if trump gets in with the house and the senate, then I'm sure the RNC's coffers will fill back up pretty drat quick.
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May 10, 2024 13:01
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So by getting checks sent to him to sign at the White House didn’t the Trump org lackey who testified basically prove what we all ready knew that he was involved with the day to day operations of Trump org WHILE president? No conflict of interest or enulments clause violations there!
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May 10, 2024 13:02
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dr_rat posted:Doesn't it only matter if the RNC is bankrupt if that affects the other races? Like if trump gets in with the house and the senate, then I'm sure the RNC's coffers will fill back up pretty drat quick. If he manages that then he truly has the complete Mandate of Heaven and there's no point in even trying to resist.
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May 10, 2024 13:06
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Tesseraction posted:If he manages that then he truly has the complete Mandate of Heaven and there's no point in even trying to resist. Nah, all you need is about 200,000 Chinese soldiers and Historically that should be about enough to win The Mandate of Heaven back. Um, you wouldn't happen to have an army of 200,000 Chinese soldiers, would you?
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May 10, 2024 13:14
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davecrazy posted:So by getting checks sent to him to sign at the White House didn’t the Trump org lackey who testified basically prove what we all ready knew that he was involved with the day to day operations of Trump org WHILE president? The defense was quick to assert they were all personal checks, like his golf club membership dues and stuff. Like, I have no doubt Trump was dodging the trust so he could stay being the big boy boss but I don't think this was the way he was doing it, and even if it was the prosecution isn't trying to chase that particular thread
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May 10, 2024 13:14
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davecrazy posted:So by getting checks sent to him to sign at the White House didn’t the Trump org lackey who testified basically prove what we all ready knew that he was involved with the day to day operations of Trump org WHILE president? He should be impeached!
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May 10, 2024 13:23
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DarkHorse posted:The defense was quick to assert they were all personal checks, like his golf club membership dues and stuff. But aren’t some of the checks paid directly by the corporation? So, if they are conceding that the payments were personal then don’t they run afoul of other laws against commingling of funds and accounting practices and tax responsibility?
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May 10, 2024 14:29
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So on the possibility of a hung jury. How much yelling at each other are jurors allowed to do? If a MAGA juror tries to hang the jury when everyone else votes guilty, I could see 11 angry new Yorkers tear into that person on what a ninny they are and I don't see a regular MAGA person standing up to that. Like a reverse "12 Angry Men" but instead of one skeptic holding out and illegally introducing new evidence to the case, it's just one person who gets their intellect, character, personality & personal hygiene systemically torn down until they meekly agree that yes, the evidence does now matter.
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May 10, 2024 15:42
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I believe if a jury member is obviously compromised ("I i came here to make sure MY president wasn't imprisoned by the deep state in a RIGGED trial") they can be reported to the judge and kicked off, but if they're smart enough to just continually say they can't say it's beyond a reasonable doubt, then there's nothing that can be done.
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May 10, 2024 15:53
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Asproigerosis posted:Didn't citizen's united make campaign contributions limits unconstitutional? All they have to do is make a PAC and they can contribute all they want, anonymously. Contribution limits to candidates directly are still constitutional. But, spending money through Super PACs and independent expenditure/issue ads has no limits post-Citizens.
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May 10, 2024 15:54
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Steve Bannon's contempt of Congress conviction upheld by appeals courtquote:A federal appeals court upheld the criminal conviction of ex-Donald Trump adviser Steve Bannon for defying a subpoena from the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol.
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May 10, 2024 16:30
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I imagine 4 months with no booze or drugs is not gonna be fun for the flesh bean bag.
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May 10, 2024 18:01
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Jesus III posted:Where did I say it was fine? Don't make poo poo up. dr_rat posted:Trump is easily petty enough that if they don't pay he may not make all the cuts he otherwise would've now he said that, just out of spite. So when I first read the article my immediate reaction was quid pro quo and illegality but yeah after reading everyone's argument I agree this wouldn't hold up in court and is just putting out in the open what all politicians are doing. However, I have no doubt that in Trump's mind he really did mean it as a quid pro quo, that his intention was a direct ask for a direct action to be taken by him later. I realize there is no way to prove that in court or whatever but I think we all know Trump well enough by now to believe that is how he meant it. I could also see him not doing it or not doing all of it if they don't donate. I do have a question about the legality regarding how PACs work. I understand there is no contribution limit but I thought there was supposed to be some sort of firewall between the campaign/politician and the PAC? Would soliciting money for a PAC in exchange by actions the candidate would take once in office not violate that? I don't have a good understanding of the rules around that separation between campaign and PAC.
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May 10, 2024 18:09
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Jesus III posted:I imagine 4 months with no booze or drugs is not gonna be fun for the flesh bean bag. Well I wouldn’t say NO booze or drugs…
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May 10, 2024 18:10
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D-Pad posted:I do have a question about the legality regarding how PACs work. I understand there is no contribution limit but I thought there was supposed to be some sort of firewall between the campaign/politician and the PAC? Would soliciting money for a PAC in exchange by actions the candidate would take once in office not violate that? I don't have a good understanding of the rules around that separation between campaign and PAC. They can't coordinate for campaigning, talking about what he wants to do in office is a separate thing.
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May 10, 2024 18:17
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Gyges posted:They can't coordinate for campaigning, talking about what he wants to do in office is a separate thing. He can stand on a public podium and state what he wants done and the PAC or someone can do it with no repercussions. If they do it behind closed doors, that's magically illegal even though no one prosecutes it. Clown world
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May 10, 2024 18:48
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The new CNN front page courtroom art of Trump and the Judge scowling at each other belongs in the Louvre IMO
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May 10, 2024 18:51
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edit: trump has a loving point: "you're so rich you should be donating more" i'm sick and tired of the government being bought for pennies by billionaires. loving united states senators selling out the county for less than a new lexus. fuckng shameful Retro42 posted:Best part is because he's insisting a part of his defense be that she's lying it was allowed testimony for her to go into "some" detail about it all to the jury. "objection your honor, hearsay!" "sustained" "now if you're telling the truth why can't you describe his skin??" InsertPotPun fucked around with this message at 19:01 on May 10, 2024 |
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May 10, 2024 18:55
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Independence posted:He can stand on a public podium and state what he wants done and the PAC or someone can do it with no repercussions. If they do it behind closed doors, that's magically illegal even though no one prosecutes it. Look, if you don't post a sign on the locked door that says, "No entry, extremely illegal collusion in progress" then we can't say it's illegal because we wouldn't want to violate the constitution. Same as with bribery. It's all very consistent and on the up and up with our corruption loving Supreme Court.
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May 10, 2024 19:00
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InsertPotPun posted:edit: trump has a loving point: "you're so rich you should be donating more" That wouldn't be hearsay. 
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May 10, 2024 20:46
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No money, mo' trouble for Rudy. Giuliani Is Suspended by WABC, and His Radio Show Is Canceled (No paywall: https://archive.ph/m0hs0) quote:Rudolph W. Giuliani was suspended by WABC radio on Friday and his daily talk show was canceled after he violated station policy by trying to discuss discredited claims about the legitimacy of the 2020 presidential election on air.
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May 10, 2024 23:14
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Deteriorata posted:No money, mo' trouble for Rudy. GAGGED LIKE A DOG
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May 10, 2024 23:24
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Accipiter posted:GAGGED Is this a morally inept rereg?
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May 11, 2024 00:51
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Deteriorata posted:No money, mo' trouble for Rudy.
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May 11, 2024 01:29
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Only took that guy 3 1/2 years to get to that point too. How brave.
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May 11, 2024 01:51
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Accipiter posted:GAGGED Kristi Noem's shotgun perks up.
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May 11, 2024 02:48
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C. Everett Koop posted:Kristi Noem's shotgun perks up. When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a puppy.
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May 11, 2024 05:02
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Guest2553 posted:When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a puppy. Look, sometimes the dang things are just stubborn. What else are you supposed to do with something like this. 
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May 11, 2024 08:16
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