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Sephiroth_IRA posted:Oh yeah I agree. I just meant people that can't afford some of the additional costs of college should get help, just like we help kids that can't afford lunch at public school. School food is one of those K-12 issues we should be discussing. There's some hideous poor-shaming practices in place at a lot of public schools for kids who can't afford what ought to be free.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:10
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I remember a really rich friend of mine got reduced lunch in school because his father wasn't reporting any of the businesses he owned in Mexico, as he only owned an office on the US-side. They were pulling in like 900k a yea ~2005
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Oct 14, 2015 18:11
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At my school the poor kids got pb&j while everyone else got chicken sandwiches and fries. hosed up imo.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:15
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Nonsense posted:Actually I fully believe free college will be second to healthcare, and agree with some of your earlier points that it is more pressing. The biggest issue with the public education system is that schools receive a huge majority of their funding from property taxes. If you live somewhere with a low property value, if you live somewhere urban and densely populated, you simply aren't going to be bringing enough money into the school district to do anything about the problems. Meanwhile, rich kids get a poo poo ton more money coming in, and even in places with private/prep school kids, their family's property taxes go to funding the school district. It's the #1 problem with public education and it's not even really close.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:19
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Philip Rivers posted:The biggest issue with the public education system is that schools receive a huge majority of their funding from property taxes. If you live somewhere with a low property value, if you live somewhere urban and densely populated, you simply aren't going to be bringing enough money into the school district to do anything about the problems. Meanwhile, rich kids get a poo poo ton more money coming in, and even in places with private/prep school kids, their family's property taxes go to funding the school district. It's the #1 problem with public education and it's not even really close. Vermont and New Jersey both have systems in place that redirect property taxes from rich districts to the poorer districts. It does quite a lot to help out the poor ones. And in the case of New Jersey, the system is based on state supreme court precedent, and is basically undefeatable without having to write a new state constitution. Here's about the system in NJ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbott_district Unsurprisingly, both states have consistently high student performance.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:28
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Sephiroth_IRA posted:At my school the poor kids got pb&j while everyone else got chicken sandwiches and fries. Bernie 2016: chicken sandwiches for ALL
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Oct 14, 2015 18:32
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Nintendo Kid posted:Vermont and New Jersey both have systems in place that redirect property taxes from rich districts to the poorer districts. It does quite a lot to help out the poor ones. And in the case of New Jersey, the system is based on state supreme court precedent, and is basically undefeatable without having to write a new state constitution. I'm glad Bernie has experience with successful K-12 policy for improving poorer districts. I hope this success is made a federal policy. The Landstander posted:I'm generally of the opinion Clinton won overall, but this is a good Vox take on why that could be wrong and I thought these points in particular are accurate: This is a big pro-click for anyone eager to declare a victor for any side.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:34
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Public college won't face the same issues as public schools simply because students are allowed to choose the college they wish to attend. If someone wants to go to a college that's out of state they'll be able to. If someone would rather go to the higher performing school they can.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:36
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Here's my take on winners and losers: I think Bernie's biggest goal for the night wasn't just to have his face seen and get his basic message out, but to draw clear distinctions between himself and Clinton. Her strategic approach was to emphasize her progressive credentials and minimize the policy issues that make Sanders stand out (and get her punches in here and there), but he was hitting on completely different emotions than her and really tapping into political disaffection. We so much focus on it in the GOP race, but I think voters of all stripes are looking for someone who presents outside the mold of "career politician." Clinton's tone was presidential, but Sanders has such a great percussive cadence that the things he says instantly stand out on that factor alone. It's energizing, it's got the right level of intensity, and message aside it's pretty clear that he's mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore. Political commentators haven't had a loving clue so far this election cycle, so why should we assume they're right on Clinton being so head and shoulders above the field? Insiders have been trying to get eyes on establishment candidates and failed miserably every time so far.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:37
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Vox Nihili posted:Best line: Sanders I'd tip my hat to O'Malley's retort to Sanders about being in Congress not being such a great thing.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:41
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Bernie 2016: chicken sandwiches for ALL a chicken in every sandwich :bernget:
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Oct 14, 2015 18:43
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O'Malley imprisoned 1/6 of Baltimore.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:43
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Former Arizona GOP Chairman watched the debate
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Oct 14, 2015 18:47
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Maybe there should be a culture change in America that not everyone needs to go to college and that if more emphasis was placed on getting quality elementary/secondary education then people wouldn't have to go into $texas debt to get a decent job. Of course the elitist corporate world wouldn't allow that, and nobody is going to go to trade schools when they give off the perception of a "lower class job" even though a fuckin electrician makes more money than a 10 year seasoned school teacher.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:48
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Philip Rivers posted:The biggest issue with the public education system is that schools receive a huge majority of their funding from property taxes. If you live somewhere with a low property value, if you live somewhere urban and densely populated, you simply aren't going to be bringing enough money into the school district to do anything about the problems. Meanwhile, rich kids get a poo poo ton more money coming in, and even in places with private/prep school kids, their family's property taxes go to funding the school district. It's the #1 problem with public education and it's not even really close. yeah i grew up in a very, very wealthy suburb (10% are legit millionaires, some very famous) and our public school system was loving absurdly well funded and we had absolutely tiny classes with tons of extra-curricular activities, there were definitely a few things that werent like absolutely perfect but when i compare notes with my uncle who is a bronx principal, the difference is absolutely staggering how many of his kids at starving, how big the classes are (double in size, on average), they don't have anything after school, at all, basically, no art program, no music program, etc. we probably should have a group fund where poorer neighborhoods get some of the property taxes of the rich to make up the diff.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:48
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:Former Arizona GOP Chairman watched the debate  "why aren't there more black republicans?! it just doesn't make sense! we're the party of lincoln!!!!!"
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Oct 14, 2015 18:48
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God I'm so loving hungover in class right now this sucks vote Bernie 2016
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Oct 14, 2015 18:49
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vyst posted:Maybe there should be a culture change in America that not everyone needs to go to college and that if more emphasis was placed on getting quality elementary/secondary education then people wouldn't have to go into $texas debt to get a decent job. Of course the elitist corporate world wouldn't allow that, and nobody is going to go to trade schools when they give off the perception of a "lower class job" even though a fuckin electrician makes more money than a 10 year seasoned school teacher. "free public college" should also include things like vocational schools and you can choose to become an electrician or learn about how much plato likes farts if you really want to waste your degree, basically.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:49
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Philip Rivers posted:God I'm so loving hungover in class right now this sucks vote Bernie 2016 This will sober you up
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Oct 14, 2015 18:49
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Nonsense posted:This will sober you up I did a trivia night after the debate and we won two pitchers and also I take meds that make me a medically-verifiable lightweight. But yes I agree, we need to take the guns from the thugs and blacks if anything is ever gonna get better 'round here.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:52
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anime was right posted:"free public college" should also include things like vocational schools and you can choose to become an electrician or learn about how much plato likes farts if you really want to waste your degree, basically. A bunch of public colleges already offer the vocational stuff too, just saying. Agriculture's the big one of course.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:53
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vyst posted:Maybe there should be a culture change in America that not everyone needs to go to college and that if more emphasis was placed on getting quality elementary/secondary education then people wouldn't have to go into $texas debt to get a decent job. Of course the elitist corporate world wouldn't allow that, and nobody is going to go to trade schools when they give off the perception of a "lower class job" even though a fuckin electrician makes more money than a 10 year seasoned school teacher. There should be tons of publicly funded cheap/free technical schools that offer no frills specialized training for workers. And not scammy for-profit BS like ITT Tech, real classes that teach you how to work in an industry. Example: IT people almost never need a Computer Science degree, it is mostly a waste. Classes dedicated to training IT workers would solve much of the H1B problem and would give new IT workers the skills needed to succeed.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:57
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The Landstander posted:I'm generally of the opinion Clinton won overall, but this is a good Vox take on why that could be wrong and I thought these points in particular are accurate: I don't think Bernie is ever not on message.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:59
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Mrit posted:There should be tons of publicly funded cheap/free technical schools that offer no frills specialized training for workers. And not scammy for-profit BS like ITT Tech, real classes that teach you how to work in an industry. Uh, the H1b "problem" is that big companies can hire foreign workers for a pittance compared to normal same-job salaries, but still a lot more than they'd be making over in Asia and to a limited extent Latin America. It has nothing to do with a lack of skilled workers for the positions in America.
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Oct 14, 2015 19:01
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vyst posted:Maybe there should be a culture change in America that not everyone needs to go to college and that if more emphasis was placed on getting quality elementary/secondary education then people wouldn't have to go into $texas debt to get a decent job. Of course the elitist corporate world wouldn't allow that, and nobody is going to go to trade schools when they give off the perception of a "lower class job" even though a fuckin electrician makes more money than a 10 year seasoned school teacher. This is true to an extent; there should be no shame in taking a trade job, that a carpenter is just as if not more likely to produce art as any liberal arts degree at Coddle U. But at the same time I cant entirely support discouraging people from pursuing education. If our broken system punishes higher learning then the solution should be focused on the system, rather than letting those looking for self-betterment be punished. I feel that what we need is more money in our budget that primarily focuses on the creation of entry-level jobs for any field overburdened with new graduates (EX: lots of new lawyers, firms aren't hiring, expand public law system to employ more public attorneys to help graduates and improve public representative quality). This should of course be implemented alongside free tuition (with state colleges seeing state funding to replace tuition funds). People should be allowed to better themselves and pursue their passions without being burdened with debt, and we need to stop pressuring literal children into taking on this debt to get a decent job.
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Oct 14, 2015 19:01
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the reason people are shamed into not taking trade jobs is they often take a huge physical toll on your body and the parents who did that job could feel their bodies deteriorating, as well as, at the time, desk jobs paying as well if not better to the average worker, meant that college really was the best path until college costs blew way out of proportion.
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Oct 14, 2015 19:03
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Gamma Nerd posted:I don't think Bernie is ever not on message. Bernie's inability to be off message is a huge strength in debates imo where you're gonna have to swing at a couple of curveballs from the moderator and restrain yourself from being too reactive after someone gets a jab in. Plus it makes him less likely to drop a gaffe imo.
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Oct 14, 2015 19:04
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Nintendo Kid posted:Uh, the H1b "problem" is that big companies can hire foreign workers for a pittance compared to normal same-job salaries, but still a lot more than they'd be making over in Asia and to a limited extent Latin America. It removes the ability of those big companies to whine about the lack of skilled laborers, as the supply and skill level will increase.
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Oct 14, 2015 19:07
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Mrit posted:It removes the ability of those big companies to whine about the lack of skilled laborers, as the supply and skill level will increase. It does not, as the supply and skill level is already very high, and they're basically just big liars and cheapskates.
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Oct 14, 2015 19:12
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Nonsense posted:O'Malley imprisoned 1/6 of Baltimore. Do you have a source for this?
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Oct 14, 2015 19:22
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KPC_Mammon posted:Do you have a source for this? It was posted earlier in either this thread or the democratic primary thread, but yeah, it literally did happen. quote:At the height of this practice, in 2005, Baltimore logged more than 108,400 arrests — equivalent to a sixth of the city’s population. https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/05/omalley-baltimore-clinton-democratic-primary-president/
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Oct 14, 2015 19:30
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Is there an archive of the debate anywhere?
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Oct 14, 2015 19:30
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Neurolimal posted:I'm glad Bernie has experience with successful K-12 policy for improving poorer districts. I hope this success is made a federal policy. EDIT: And this is mostly going to support small school districts (like <500 kid districts, many ~100) in rural towns that refuse to give up their own special snowflake districts, all of which have administrative staff, school buildings, etc. wins32767 has issued a correction as of 19:55 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 19:47
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Jewel Repetition posted:Is there an archive of the debate anywhere? video: http://www.uspresidentialelectionnews.com/2015/10/video-watch-the-full-cnn-democratic-debate/ transcript: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/10/13/the-oct-13-democratic-debate-who-said-what-and-what-it-means/
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Oct 14, 2015 19:50
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Bernie 2016: chicken sandwiches for ALL I am a vegetarian.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:07
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AfroLine posted:I am a vegetarian. We are all eating from the same trough now comrade.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:09
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wins32767 posted:No, you don't. School budgets are unsustainable in Vermont because districts can vote for higher costs but then don't have to pay for it since for the vast majority of voters the costs are pushed into the state budget. It's a broken system that's slowly bankrupting the state. Student numbers have been declining for years and costs continue to increase. Works great in New Jersey, but then in New Jersey the sub 500 kid districts tend to either send their kids to a neighboring town after either 6th or 3rd grade (and most districts forgo having a district owned high school entirely in favor of sending high school students to multiple town high school districts).
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Oct 14, 2015 20:10
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AfroLine posted:I am a vegetarian. For. All.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:39
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Watched this last night with a good buddy, thought bernie had a few rough points in terms of delivery* but overall did great and was happy to see my feed blow up with some of the best bernie moments. I was actually quite surprised with Hillary, she came across much more economically left than I expected in terms of general points, but I think her specifics often betrayed her allegiances. Stuff like refinancing student loans, failing to really take a stand against wallstreet, etc, all gave me the impression that when push came to shove she has no intent of actually taking on the oligarchy. She feels kinda like obama round 2, she's saying a lot of the right things but I feel like if her rear end is ever planted in that office that all is going to go right out the window in the name of "compromise". People kept saying itt that bernie came across as angry or shouting, and I can see that, but I think it also came across as passion. Bernie came across like he genuinely wanted to do something about class inequality and he wasn't going to do it by asking nicely and hoping the bankers cooperate. *In particular I think the guns issue went over badly for the audience, but at the same time I think stuff like that is what gives him some appeal to moderates. I've had pretty conservatives friends/family link bernie sanders related stuff on social media because he's right, trying to take guns away from rural people is dumb and wouldn't accomplish anything anyways.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:13
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The Ninth Layer posted:The accusations of "Hillary plants" in the crowd are ridiculous to me but I think you would have to be deaf not to notice she had the majority of support in the room. And the majority of questions and speaking time over the next closest person by almost 10%, and almost 50% more than the next closest person it's almost like the DNC and CNN set her up for success or something... skaboomizzy posted:Lincoln Chafee needed a big giant hook to drag him offstage, or a gong, or a bucket of slime, or anything to just make him stop talking. "It was my first day" is not a good excuse for anything. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZlOhSt_qW0
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Oct 14, 2015 22:20
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