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Let antivaxxers get heath care but ban social media for everyone imo
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# ? Oct 21, 2021 22:14 |
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# ? Jun 13, 2024 06:00 |
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StrangeThing posted:This discussion is pretty lovely because if we changed the topic to something like obesity, we would agree that rationing care is pretty terrible - even if the majority of this country is overweight. Not being unvaccinated isn't something that requires months to years of continuous work to achieve and a lifetime of lifestyle changes to maintain.
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# ? Oct 21, 2021 22:23 |
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Phigs posted:Not being unvaccinated isn't something that requires months to years of continuous work to achieve and a lifetime of lifestyle changes to maintain. And? The principle of universal healthcare is that it's universal. Unconditional. You may not like it but that's what it is.
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# ? Oct 21, 2021 22:29 |
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exclude
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# ? Oct 21, 2021 22:34 |
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gently caress, you guys are cooked. I will continue to depense health care too who ever needs it, so will everyone of my other colleges. Log off you gently caress heads and gain some loving perspective. Holy poo poo. What is wrong with you guys,? Has the media wound you all up the much. Let's just introduce eugenic while we are at it.
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# ? Oct 21, 2021 22:34 |
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If there is anything the lockdown in Melbourne has taught me, it's that the leftists who exclaimed support for abolition of police last year are perfectly fine with: - The existence of cops - Those same cops punishing people for breaking laws - Rationing healthcare based on morals You guys are absolutely hosed. I'd be much more tolerant of you if you just admitted that you're fascists.
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# ? Oct 21, 2021 22:36 |
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What should healthcare be rationed on then? And don't say healthcare shouldn't be rationed because that's not an answer that's just avoiding the question. There's no correct answer to the trolley problem but "better rail safety" is definitely a wrong answer. Avoiding hard questions just means you end up with easy answers and the easy answer to "what should healthcare be rationed on?" will be wealth and citizenship and race.
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# ? Oct 21, 2021 22:46 |
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StrangeThing posted:If there is anything the lockdown in Melbourne has taught me, it's that the leftists who exclaimed support for abolition of police last year are perfectly fine with: I'm an ultra liberal actually.
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# ? Oct 21, 2021 22:49 |
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I love it when people get surprised leftists have more nuanced viewpoints than they assumed. And vaccination is not a moral issue. It's a public health issue. It's a public endangerment issue. It's a hey let's not let the pandemic kill a fuckload of people issue. If our plan is to use vaccination rates to avoid murdering a bunch of our citizens with our open ups then I'm fine with everything up to and including physically holding people down and jabbing them against their will to get the rate as high as we can.
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# ? Oct 21, 2021 22:53 |
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It's good that the cops checked on my hyper privileged idiot mate and his airhead wife twice a day when they came back from the US and had to isolate imo because they can't be trusted.
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# ? Oct 21, 2021 22:54 |
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StrangeThing posted:If there is anything the lockdown in Melbourne has taught me, it's that the leftists who exclaimed support for abolition of police last year are perfectly fine with: Putting aside rationing based on vaccinations being dumb, in what way is this fascism? I'm curious and I'm sure you have a great explanation
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# ? Oct 21, 2021 22:59 |
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StrangeThing posted:You guys are absolutely hosed. I'd be much more tolerant of you if you just admitted that you're fascists.
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# ? Oct 21, 2021 23:02 |
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Enforcing public health orders = bad Not affording everyone healthcare = bad Letting slowest walker diminish safety of others = good
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# ? Oct 21, 2021 23:09 |
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JBP posted:I'm an ultra liberal actually. JBP out here hustlegrinding for that reál.
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# ? Oct 21, 2021 23:11 |
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Launchpad McQuack posted:gently caress, you guys are cooked. I will continue to depense health care too who ever needs it, so will everyone of my other colleges. Log off you gently caress heads and gain some loving perspective. Holy poo poo. What is wrong with you guys,? Has the media wound you all up the much. That's kinda the point, we don't need to introduce eugenics, the eugenicists have that covered already. When we get to a point where your bosses are telling you who gets priority of care (and it will happen at some point, not necessarily to you but to someone in your position, you can't prepare for everything forever) the eugenicists already have an answer ready to go, as do the nationalists and the neo-Nazis. If the best answer the rest of us have is "this shouldn't have happened" then the other answers are going to be the what policy is based on.
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# ? Oct 21, 2021 23:16 |
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Lets check to see what was actually saidVic AMA posted:“We’re all juggling everything the best we can to avoid and prevent deaths. We know as we reopen it’s the unvaccinated who are going to get Covid, and they are going to get great hospital treatment with many new experimental drugs, even though they think the vaccine is ‘experimental’. Oh, so the AMA aren't calling for the denial of treatment. However, if you don't believe in COVID-19, why would you seek treatment for a disease that doesn't exist?
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# ? Oct 21, 2021 23:20 |
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ColtMcAsskick posted:Putting aside rationing based on vaccinations being dumb, in what way is this fascism? I'm curious and I'm sure you have a great explanation I'll be sympathetic here and say that it's not surprising to see scepticism of governments declaring emergency powers. Plenty of awful laws were proposed and passed without question in the name of public security - remember the metadata retention laws? (They were used during this pandemic!) So I get people's concerns when they hear that the state is extending its reach. I certainly felt, and still kind of feel, uncomfortable with how Victoria just shut down public transportation in response to protests, no matter how moronic I thought those protests were. Of course, the pandemic is a very real thing, and exactly the thing that require emergency powers. You need to have some executive authority in place to manage a crisis like this. If only our governments hadn't poisoned that well and compromised trust in these matters for quite a few people.
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# ? Oct 21, 2021 23:33 |
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StrangeThing posted:This discussion is pretty lovely because if we changed the topic to something like obesity, we would agree that rationing care is pretty terrible - even if the majority of this country is overweight. Ignoring the fact that you're a golem hewn out of bad faith arguments: Yeah except obese people can't spread an airborne potentially fatal condition to others by walking around, and aren't deliberately coughing in the faces of people who are asking them not to do so with the intent of making them sick. A better analogy would be "should we give the liver transplant to the unrepentant alcoholic who regularly announces their intent to keep drinking? Or prioritise others?" Back of the loving queue with them.
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# ? Oct 21, 2021 23:42 |
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JBP posted:I'm an ultra liberal actually. dios mio!
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# ? Oct 22, 2021 00:10 |
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StrangeThing posted:If there is anything the lockdown in Melbourne has taught me, it's that the leftists who exclaimed support for abolition of police last year are perfectly fine with: Lmao are you a celestial scribe rereg
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# ? Oct 22, 2021 00:10 |
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Strange - you leftists say you support human rights yet you don't support the right for me to kiss elderly women while being infectious with a deadly disease? Did you know this is how Nazi Germany started?
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# ? Oct 22, 2021 00:11 |
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Launchpad McQuack posted:gently caress, you guys are cooked. I will continue to depense health care too who ever needs it, so will everyone of my other colleges. Log off you gently caress heads and gain some loving perspective. Holy poo poo. What is wrong with you guys,? Has the media wound you all up the much. I don't know why you are outraged. If you drive ambulances then you know that life saving organ donations have always been rationed to the most likely to survive, smokers, obese, drug addicts put to the back of the queue. Of course someone who refuses to be vaccinated will be passed over for treatment because their immune system will be suppressed and make them very likely to die from covid when others wouldn't.
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# ? Oct 22, 2021 00:15 |
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abigserve posted:Strange - you leftists say you support human rights yet you don't support the right for me to kiss elderly women while being infectious with a deadly disease? Did you know this is how Nazi Germany started? Curious!
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# ? Oct 22, 2021 00:15 |
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Breetai posted:Ignoring the fact that you're a golem hewn out of bad faith arguments: I agree that it was pretty hosed up of us to give Hinch that liver
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# ? Oct 22, 2021 00:15 |
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Wow, you guys are loving cooked. If you call, I will come . Vaxxers or not vaxxed. I don't give a poo poo. poo poo behind your keyboard dishing out bullshit hate to the ether. I have real tangible stuff to do. I can't work out if you guys were bullied too much at school or not enough. I am going with not enough.
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# ? Oct 22, 2021 00:26 |
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Launchpad McQuack posted:Wow, you guys are loving cooked. If you call, I will come . Vaxxers or not vaxxed. I don't give a poo poo. poo poo behind your keyboard dishing out bullshit hate to the ether. I have real tangible stuff to do. Cool cool
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# ? Oct 22, 2021 00:28 |
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Launchpad McQuack posted:poo poo behind your keyboard
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# ? Oct 22, 2021 00:32 |
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Launchpad McQuack posted:Wow, you guys are loving cooked. If you call, I will come . Vaxxers or not vaxxed. I don't give a poo poo. poo poo behind your keyboard dishing out bullshit hate to the ether. I have real tangible stuff to do. Ok but are you the person who will decide which call gets responded to first if there aren't enough ambulances ready immediately? Or is it someone above you? Are you completely unconcerned with the reasoning that would go into that decision?
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# ? Oct 22, 2021 00:37 |
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Launchpad McQuack posted:gently caress, you guys are cooked. I will continue to depense health care too who ever needs it, so will everyone of my other colleges. Log off you gently caress heads and gain some loving perspective. Holy poo poo. What is wrong with you guys,? Has the media wound you all up the much. Launchpad McQuack posted:Wow, you guys are loving cooked. If you call, I will come . Vaxxers or not vaxxed. I don't give a poo poo. poo poo behind your keyboard dishing out bullshit hate to the ether. I have real tangible stuff to do. I don't agree with withholding care from unvaccinated people but I work in healthcare and it's kind of incredible that a paramedic (?) thinks paramedics universally support dispensing care to every person without fear or favour and only extremely online posters support rationing care. Emergency medical staff commonly express pro rationing opinions ranging from reasonable to full fascist. Have you never listened to anybody in the ED having a conversation about drug users?
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# ? Oct 22, 2021 00:37 |
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Launchpad McQuack posted:Wow, you guys are loving cooked. If you call, I will come . Vaxxers or not vaxxed. I don't give a poo poo. poo poo behind your keyboard dishing out bullshit hate to the ether. I have real tangible stuff to do. What do you do when 10 of us call you all at once? Is it a first come first served basis? I mean, someone has to make the decision on prioritising the motor vehicle accident vs the cardiac infarct vs the febrile infant. Saying "magic up more health care" when you're already responding won't help 2 out of those 3 cases. I do agree that denying someone emergency care based on vax status is definitely not what we want however we have seen some other health systems (e.g. Italy in the early COVID days) have to make really lovely priority decisions. And at some point if people won't take (when they are able to) basic preventative measures like a safe vaccine, then maybe they slip a little down the priority pole. As it is now, I would be surprised if you can get an organ transplant, or elective surgery, or even non-elective surgery, without vaccination. And this all goes back to the dismal science of economics to make the call on how many health resources we want to have vs something that LNP finds useful like another coal mine or more smart bombs. (yes, yes, vertical fiscal imbalance and state v fed not withstanding) Capt.Whorebags fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Oct 22, 2021 |
# ? Oct 22, 2021 00:39 |
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Launchpad McQuack posted:Wow, you guys are loving cooked. If you call, I will come . Vaxxers or not vaxxed. I don't give a poo poo. poo poo behind your keyboard dishing out bullshit hate to the ether. I have real tangible stuff to do. Do people call you directly or does a dispatcher assign jobs based on importance?
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# ? Oct 22, 2021 00:42 |
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Whole lotta people going off without actually reading the actual thing the AMA VIC guy said in context. And what they said was completely resonable and also a lot more nuanced - and also fair bit longer in making the point he wanted to makequote:“Covid-deniers” and “anti-vaxxers” should opt out of care in the public health system if they catch the virus as Victoria reopens, says the Victorian branch of the Australian Medical Association. The ACTUAL point if you dont hyperfocus on a throwaway line is the hospital system is exhausted and workers close to breaking.
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# ? Oct 22, 2021 00:47 |
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obviously withholding all medical care from unvaccinated people is crazy. healthcare for everyone etc etc. this doesn't change that prioritisation and triage is a real necessity, especially as governments routinely underfund public health. if not being vaccinated increases someone's risk of harm from other medical services in a meaningful enough way, or puts other people at risk, then it unfortunately becomes a lower priority. that's just the horrible world we live in. it's easy to combine this with fury at anti-vaxxers and exaggerate it into "gently caress 'em, no care for them at all", but i don't think the AMA or anyone reasonable is proposing that. i read the AMA statement as them pushing anti-vaxxers to commit to their beliefs. if they really think the vaccine is out to get them, commit to that and save the overworked healthcare staff a bit more headache.
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# ? Oct 22, 2021 00:48 |
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Whole lotta people going off without actually reading the actual thing the AMA VIC guy said in context. And what they said was completely resonable and also a lot more nuanced - and also fair bit longer in making the point he wanted to make They read it but are having a debate about the throwaway line and counterfactuals instead
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# ? Oct 22, 2021 00:54 |
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:The ACTUAL point if you dont hyperfocus on a throwaway line is the hospital system is exhausted and workers close to breaking. But rationing care, of course, is simply a hypothetical, a parlour game if you will
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# ? Oct 22, 2021 00:56 |
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I recall triage stories from Italy and the US where doctors and nurses were completely breaking down from having to pick and choose who to treat. In a situation where doctors have to pick and choose who to treat I expect them to de-prioritise unvaccinated people without exemptions.
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# ? Oct 22, 2021 00:58 |
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For the record I was bullied too much
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# ? Oct 22, 2021 01:13 |
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JBP posted:Enforcing public health orders = bad
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# ? Oct 22, 2021 01:22 |
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# ? Oct 22, 2021 01:26 |
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# ? Jun 13, 2024 06:00 |
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Only in front of you savage.
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# ? Oct 22, 2021 02:36 |