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Me (30sF) with my sister (30sF)-She terminated a pregnancy because of Down's Syndrome, asked me how I felt about her decision, got mad when I told her.Non-Romanticquote:So my younger sister recently terminated a pregnancy at 14 weeks because the fetus came back positive for Trisomy 21 (Down's Syndrome).
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Oct 19, 2017 01:38
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maskenfreiheit posted:Me (30sF) with my sister (30sF)-She terminated a pregnancy because of Down's Syndrome, asked me how I felt about her decision, got mad when I told her.Non-Romantic Also  at the "it's not incompatible with life, so what's the big deal?" reasoning.
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Oct 19, 2017 01:43
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maskenfreiheit posted:Me (30sF) with my sister (30sF)-She terminated a pregnancy because of Down's Syndrome, asked me how I felt about her decision, got mad when I told her.Non-Romantic Also probably more parents would be willing to raise a child with a genetic disorder if health care was better but that's an entirely different thing.
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Oct 19, 2017 01:48
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Dang It Bhabhi! posted:You live with your parents and have a taxidermy collection? I don't live with them, but my taxidermy collection is massive, way too big for my apartment.
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Oct 19, 2017 01:48
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Pick posted:I don't live with them, but my taxidermy collection is massive, way too big for my apartment.
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Oct 19, 2017 01:49
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maskenfreiheit posted:Me (30sF) with my sister (30sF)-She terminated a pregnancy because of Down's Syndrome, asked me how I felt about her decision, got mad when I told her.Non-Romantic This is a really tricky one. However, there is absolutely a "soft eugenics" push in Western nations right now that is founded on a tremendous number of questionable values that are never really evaluated for their validity.
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Oct 19, 2017 01:50
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Pick posted:I don't live with them, but my taxidermy collection is massive, way too big for my apartment. If you’re unable to pursue your hobby in space you can reasonably claim as yours, your hobby is too much for your income.
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Oct 19, 2017 01:50
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VanSandman posted:If you’re unable to pursue your hobby in space you can reasonably claim as yours, your hobby is too much for your income. It's not a hobby.
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Oct 19, 2017 01:51
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VanSandman posted:If you’re unable to pursue your hobby in space you can reasonably claim as yours, your hobby is too much for your income. Yeah but let’s not underestimate passion for taxidermy. 
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Oct 19, 2017 01:52
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Pick posted:This is a really tricky one. However, there is absolutely a "soft eugenics" push in Western nations right now that is founded on a tremendous number of questionable values that are never really evaluated for their validity.
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Oct 19, 2017 01:52
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Pick posted:It's not a hobby. Yeah, It's a mean of disposing of victims.
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Oct 19, 2017 01:52
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VanSandman posted:If you’re unable to pursue your hobby in space you can reasonably claim as yours, your hobby is too much for your income. (Still shouldn't keep more stuff than you can store in your own space, though. That way lies hoarderdom and storage units full of junk you haven't touched in years.)
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Oct 19, 2017 01:53
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Pick posted:This is a really tricky one. However, there is absolutely a "soft eugenics" push in Western nations right now that is founded on a tremendous number of questionable values that are never really evaluated for their validity. there's a big gulf between full blown eugenics and a woman detecting and aborting defective children. it's important to support a woman's right to choose.
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Oct 19, 2017 01:53
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PetraCore posted:Yeah. Like again, I think it's okay for people to decide they wouldn't be able to handle that aspect of parenting, but I think the current state of health care in the USA specifically combined with people being pressured towards aborting 'non-ideal' fetuses is a problem. I just don't think the solution is to pressure people to keep kids they don't want to care for because that has a way of ending super badly. I think that the health care concern is very real. However, what is a person "for"? To be honest, we already have a lot more people than jobs that genuinely need doing. And frankly, depending on severity, a Down's syndrome person is able to do some of the jobs that still need doing, more than there are Down's syndrome people. My dentist has a dental technician with Down's and he does a very thorough job, way better than others I've had in the past. So a person doesn't need "work" as their primary purpose for existing, and many disabled people can do the jobs that exist. Then what is a person for? I would argue diversity of the human experience improves the overall merit of humanity. I think it's a big mistake to put on your 1950s pants and proclaim that future humans should all be 6' blonde women with suspiciously bomb rear end titties and weasley little engineers adhered, anglerfish-like, to the former's labial folds.
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Oct 19, 2017 01:56
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Pick posted:It's not a hobby. I like you.
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Oct 19, 2017 01:57
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PetraCore posted:Yeah. Like again, I think it's okay for people to decide they wouldn't be able to handle that aspect of parenting, but I think the current state of health care in the USA specifically combined with people being pressured towards aborting 'non-ideal' fetuses is a problem. I just don't think the solution is to pressure people to keep kids they don't want to care for because that has a way of ending super badly. The US if anything doesn't abort enough fetuses, what are you talking about? How many cases have we seen in this thread of problems that would have been solved with abortion?
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Oct 19, 2017 01:57
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maskenfreiheit posted:there's a big gulf between full blown eugenics and a woman detecting and aborting defective children. What's a "defective" child? Is a Down's syndrome child inherently defective, if they can work, feel and express emotion, and reproduce? (They're not all infertile.) What makes you less defective than my dental hygienist?
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Oct 19, 2017 01:58
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I'm defective as gently caress please abort.
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Oct 19, 2017 01:59
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Pick posted:What's a "defective" child? Is a Down's syndrome child inherently defective, if they can work, feel and express emotion, and reproduce? (They're not all infertile.) It’s like when the bebby comes out and the doctor be all like “aw heeelllllllll naw put it back in put it back noooo”  
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Oct 19, 2017 02:01
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I don't like to tug my own weewee here but I actually go to that dentist because I heard he gives employment to people who are not often given a chance for reasons completely outside their control, despite being entirely competent to do the work. I mean you can abort all you want, but that's a personal decision that seems to rely more on how the child is treated by intolerant assholes than who they have the capacity to be.
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Oct 19, 2017 02:02
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Absurd Alhazred posted:The US if anything doesn't abort enough fetuses, what are you talking about? How many cases have we seen in this thread of problems that would have been solved with abortion? But in a weird double-bind, there's plenty of people who think abortion is super-bad unless the fetus is someone they don't consider a person anyway, like a disabled person or a brown person or whatever. The history of forced sterilization of minorities in the USA is pretty chilling. EDIT: And like, the attitude that the 'wrong kind of person' shouldn't have kids has never gone away even if overt eugenics is not socially acceptable. Look at the people who think poor people shouldn't have kids. PetraCore fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Oct 19, 2017 |
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Oct 19, 2017 02:02
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Pick posted:What's a "defective" child? Is a Down's syndrome child inherently defective, if they can work, feel and express emotion, and reproduce? (They're not all infertile.) They're gonna work as indentured services in minimum wage jobs, unless their parents can pay for life time care. Currently in the U.S. our adult services aren't nearly up to par, and there is zero motivation to better fund or overhaul the current system. And again, women can abort for any reason at the moment. It doesn't matter why.
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Oct 19, 2017 02:08
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Embittered posted:They're gonna work as indentured services in minimum wage jobs, unless their parents can pay for life time care. Currently in the U.S. our adult services aren't nearly up to par, and there is zero motivation to better fund or overhaul the current system. There are plenty of poor people, globally and in the USA, who are in exactly the same bind for non-genetic reasons. Should they be discouraged from reproducing compared to those of dynastic wealth and limitless opportunity such as the Romneys?
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Oct 19, 2017 02:10
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PetraCore posted:Right. In the USA in specific there's very real political movements about all abortion whatsoever casting you into eternal hellfire, to the point that people have to clarify 'unless it was rape' or 'unless it'd be fatal for the mother to carry to term', as if the morality aborting a baby that's literally killing you shouldn't be self-evident anyway, and to the point where plenty of people feel pressured to carry to term non-viable fetuses who will live for like, a few hours tops once removed from maternal life-support, and that probably in a good deal of pain. The issue is people want to ban abortions, but don't want to pay the cost for children to have a decent quality of life.
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Oct 19, 2017 02:10
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Embittered posted:The issue is people want to ban abortions, but don't want to pay the cost for children to have a decent quality of life.
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Oct 19, 2017 02:13
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If the doctor could confirm that my child would grow up to through temper tantrums as an adult about free chicken nugget sauce give-aways Id be loading up a tiny handgun on a stick to take that fetus out personally.
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Oct 19, 2017 02:13
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Pick posted:I don't like to tug my own weewee here but I actually go to that dentist because I heard he gives employment to people who are not often given a chance for reasons completely outside their control, despite being entirely competent to do the work. On the flip side, I wouldn't condemn them for choosing to give birth to that child either. Like you said, it's not impossible for people with mental disabilities to lead happy and fulfilling lives, and it's chilling to imply the default reaction to "my fetus is suboptimal" should be abortion. It's an intensely personal decision for a reason.
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Oct 19, 2017 02:14
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As a random aside, Hugh and I both have serious hereditary disorders but are from wealthy families so Not that it really matters now but it does provide a lot of insight into this quiet phenomenon.
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Oct 19, 2017 02:14
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Pick posted:There are plenty of poor people, globally and in the USA, who are in exactly the same bind for non-genetic reasons. Should they be discouraged from reproducing compared to those of dynastic wealth and limitless opportunity such as the Romneys? We aren't talking about reproducing, we're talking about a woman's choice to abort. I don't disparage people who choose to bring a downs syndrome child into the world, but currently the social safety net is loving awful if the parents can't afford to support said child. It is an observation, not a judgement. I fully believe we should offer better funding to adult social services, and more money to special needs. At the same time I believe it should be up to the parent(s) on a case by case basis whether they choose to carry a downs syndrome child to full term.
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Oct 19, 2017 02:15
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Barudak posted:If the doctor could confirm that my child would grow up to through temper tantrums as an adult about free chicken nugget sauce give-aways Id be loading up a tiny handgun on a stick to take that fetus out personally. exactly. most children are defective because of their parents' behavior, not their genes. yep. most people are that way because that's how incompetent their parents were. shee-it.
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Oct 19, 2017 02:16
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PetraCore posted:Ding ding ding! And a lot of pro-life people don't want to provide good sex education or access to contraceptives, either. I can respect someone who is pro-life but supports easy access to contraceptives and state-subsidized child care, but that's actually super rare. Yup. Be Pro-Choice and support more money toward social safety nets.
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Oct 19, 2017 02:17
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Embittered posted:We aren't talking about reproducing, we're talking about a woman's choice to abort. I don't disparage people who choose to bring a downs syndrome child into the world, but currently the social safety net is loving awful if the parents can't afford to support said child. It is an observation, not a judgement. People can abort all they want, but the problem is they're being made to want it due to inhumane and immortal pressures from influential douchebags who are never challenged, and the aggregate effect is chilling.
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Oct 19, 2017 02:17
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Pick posted:People can abort all they want, but the problem is they're being made to want it due to inhumane and immortal pressures from influential douchebags who are never challenged, and the aggregate effect is chilling. So what are the morally correct reasons to abort?
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Oct 19, 2017 02:20
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PetraCore posted:Yeah. Like again, I think it's okay for people to decide they wouldn't be able to handle that aspect of parenting, but I think the current state of health care in the USA specifically combined with people being pressured towards aborting 'non-ideal' fetuses is a problem. I just don't think the solution is to pressure people to keep kids they don't want to care for because that has a way of ending super badly. Why? Seriously, why? Why should someone bring a child into the world that they don't want and, realistically, almost no one else will want either. My brother is disable and I love him to pieces and my parents love him to pieces and were awesome parents to him. We've all been really involved in fundraising for people with disabilities for years. But even they have admitted privately that if the detection technology we have now had existed in the 1980s, they would have aborted him. And if I end up pregnant with a child with that level of disability I will 100% abort. Because caring for a really disabled child is a terrible thing that I wouldn't wish on anyone. What's your solution? I seriously want to know. EDIT: and I'm not really talking about slight disabilities before someone starts yelling "SLIPPERY SLOPE!!!!!"
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Oct 19, 2017 02:20
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Pick posted:People can abort all they want, but the problem is they're being made to want it due to inhumane and immortal pressures from influential douchebags who are never challenged, and the aggregate effect is chilling. Abortion is neither pressured, nor wanted in the United States. Over the past 10 years, it is been severely restricted and made inaccessible by low income people. Pregnancy is seen as a burden placed for having the gall to have sex. In fact, people who are willing to abort children who suffer from a severe birth defect are probably going to be more well off due to the nature of healthcare and pre-birth tests.
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Oct 19, 2017 02:21
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Who What Now posted:So what are the morally correct reasons to abort? Angel came from heaven and proclaimed that the fruit of your womb shall do gods will and you need to show him you werent messing around about that new camaro you wanted in exchange.
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Oct 19, 2017 02:22
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sierramike76 posted:We have an update to the woman who spent all her time in the water. Wow, looks like I've just found the perfect murder technique.
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Oct 19, 2017 02:25
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Bamabalacha posted:Why? Seriously, why? Why should someone bring a child into the world that they don't want and, realistically, almost no one else will want either. Maybe we should have better social nets so caring for a really disabled child isn't a terrible thing.
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Oct 19, 2017 02:26
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Who What Now posted:So what are the morally correct reasons to abort? Child has a slightly off canthal tilt, dooming him to a life as an incel.
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Oct 19, 2017 02:27
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Embittered posted:Abortion is neither pressured, nor wanted in the United States. Over the past 10 years, it is been severely restricted and made inaccessible by low income people. Pregnancy is seen as a burden placed for having the gall to have sex. In fact, people who are willing to abort children who suffer from a severe birth defect are probably going to be more well off due to the nature of healthcare and pre-birth tests. 
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Oct 19, 2017 02:29
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