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oddium
Feb 21, 2006

end of the 4.5 tatami age

the dev push edict is p good and also the -5 unrest or whatever that's age of discovery only

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Yolomancer
Aug 9, 2014

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
Holy poo poo. EU4 is such a pile of rear end now. It just seems like the game goes out of its way to drop a never ending pile of poo poo on the player. The bias against the player is insane. I get that it's about trying to make the game challenging but it just seems like there's no respite from it at all. Even the so called 'pro' players like florryworry and the like regularly use CTRL+ALT+DEL end process to circumvent the more annoying parts of the game. What the gently caress.

BBJoey
Oct 31, 2012

source you’re quotes

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Yeah ever since they made the game always start with the same RNG seed and even force it when you load a new save EU4 just hasnt felt the same. It was cool to try a hard start and get that blessed Friendly Austria or whatever. And whenever I play with ironman on i want to scream because any battle where i dont have at least equal tech and 10k more troops is a guaranteed loss

pog boyfriend
Jul 2, 2011

i hate to be the guy responding to criticism with get good but come on

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
It just feels like the game never gives you a break any more.

BBJoey
Oct 31, 2012

Larry Parrish posted:

Yeah ever since they made the game always start with the same RNG seed

this is straight up not true, every time you start the game you'll get a different setup of rivals, so ???

pog boyfriend
Jul 2, 2011

Larry Parrish posted:

It just feels like the game never gives you a break any more.

when i was playing austria the event flagged where i randomly inherited hungary just as i was making my plans to actually engage in the PU war so the game still does nice stuff to players, it is just punishing as well

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

oh cool now great britain will be as loving monstrous as russia. also fuuu waking the tiger is only on march

FactsAreUseless
Feb 16, 2011

I've started playing Endless Legend, because the interface makes more sense to me than Paradox games, and I'm doing very badly. I haven't spent a lot of time with 4x games. How do I tell if I'm where I should be at a certain point in the game? It takes a long time and I never have any sense if I'm doing well or not.

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

Endless Legend loving sucked. Space 2 is a legit game though. Probably the only good modern space 4X

FactsAreUseless
Feb 16, 2011

Plutonis posted:

Endless Legend loving sucked. Space 2 is a legit game though. Probably the only good modern space 4X
I honestly don't even know where to start with these games. EL just seems simple enough to understand. I find the Paradox games totally mystifying.

What makes EL bad and ES2 good?

Pewdiepie
Oct 31, 2010

I want to like Endless space 2 but I don't get it. Very slick looking game but I get the overwhelming feeling when I play it there is very little going on in the background.

Pewdiepie
Oct 31, 2010

Stellaris on the other hand assaults you with how little is going on so its less deceptive. Better game.

corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

Oh no oh god it's all true!
ES2 and Stellaris all pale in comparison to Distant Worlds imo

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

corn in the bible posted:

ES2 and Stellaris all pale in comparison to Distant Worlds imo

If distant worlds had enemy AI that bothered to attack your victory goals instead of just your economy it would be the best 4x ever.

Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011

Major Isoor posted:

(wall of text about my immortal king)

Oh wow, I've only just noticed that in my game, the Jains of all people, rose up and formed an Indian empire in 1062! It's now 1236 and they've still got control over it, and have nearly wiped Hinduism off the map.
In other news, unfortunately the Mongol empire has absorbed the huge Arabian empire, so now my holdings in the Kingdom of Jerusalem are probably looking like a pretty tantalizing target, right about now...

feller
Jul 5, 2006


I'm loving that France+Aquitaine mess

also holy gently caress those mongols ofc

Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011
Also, there's been an interesting development; in the last 20-30 years it seemed like EVERYONE was suddenly getting the "sympathy for Islam" trait, (which I thought was curious at the time, but wasn't overly concerned - it seemed to help me get recruits for the Assassins, after all) and now half my vassals and a heap of other rulers, etc. are openly converting to become Sunni. Like, our lands are all still Catholic, but I'm not sure about how long that'll last, until the rulers have their chaplainsimams convert the commoners.
I'm not sure whether to be happy about this or not, since Haraldr is a Shi'a worshiper! I'm thinking I might openly convert at some point a bit later on, when the Papacy is weakened, then try turning England into a bastion of the Shi'a faith - since I'm starting to grow concerned about the ultimate fate of the Catholics. The Mongols/steppes region is almost entirely Sunni now, (the Tengri are all but a distant memory) so over half the map is Sunni.

A human heart
Oct 10, 2012

corn in the bible posted:

ES2 and Stellaris all pale in comparison to Distant Worlds imo

did they make stellaris actually fun to play yet or is it it still boring numbers going up bullshit

BgRdMchne
Oct 31, 2011

A human heart posted:

did they make stellaris actually fun to play yet or is it it still boring numbers going up bullshit

the next patch will fix everything!

PleasingFungus
Oct 10, 2012
idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

BgRdMchne posted:

the next patch will fix everything!

did the patch fix everything

BgRdMchne
Oct 31, 2011

PleasingFungus posted:

did the patch fix everything

gently caress if i know. haven’t played it since about three weeks after it came out.

PleasingFungus
Oct 10, 2012
idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off
it was more of a thread-wide question

Elusif
Jun 9, 2008

Its apparently made multiplayer desync a lot?

corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

Oh no oh god it's all true!

A human heart posted:

did they make stellaris actually fun to play yet or is it it still boring numbers going up bullshit

I tried the new patch and indeed they did not make it fun to play.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Its still boring trash but at least wars are a little less frustrating. Planets and starbases should be limited only by your economy though. gently caress off with this poo poo paradox.

Eugene V. Dubstep
Oct 4, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 8 years!
consensus among my mapgaming pals is that stellaris is way more fun after the last patch. The early game is more of a balancing act than the old rush to expand, and borders/wars are more intuitive. Advance planning (wide fleet deployment, static defenses, etc.) makes a huge difference now, so I imagine a bunch of people are pissy because their old doomstacking strat is suboptimal.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
mostly i'm pissy that i have to pay more attention to ship design now. gently caress you wiz.

also, the enemy AI is still brain damaged and i haven't played any MP yet so i'm gonna go ahead and say the changes are meaningless overall

BBJoey
Oct 31, 2012

stellaris is more interesting but still suffers a really boring midgame where all you’re doing is clicking upgrade on your buildings/ships and filling in all the uncolonised space you have in preparation for the endgame crises and/or war in heaven. in fairness it’s the same issue all paradox games run into once you get out of the early game - you’ve become powerful enough that the decisions (about whether to build here or there, whether to declare war or wait for a better window) aren’t that important any more - but because stellaris lacks the historical window dressing of ck, eu, hoi etc. the midgame drag is more prominent.

2.0 is a big improvement systems wise - expansion, fleet building, war, combat are much better, but there’s still not enough content imo

Eugene V. Dubstep
Oct 4, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 8 years!
One thing I will say is that it seems like someone missed a decimal place somewhere in the war exhaustion code. You will be automatically white peaced out of winnable wars pretty goddamn quick.

PleasingFungus
Oct 10, 2012
idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Eugene V. Dubstep posted:

One thing I will say is that it seems like someone missed a decimal place somewhere in the war exhaustion code. You will be automatically white peaced out of winnable wars pretty goddamn quick.

they're apparently patching in the upcoming hotfix.

a7m2
Jul 9, 2012


So what's the best space game currently out? Distant Worlds?

GorfZaplen
Jan 20, 2012

a7m2 posted:

So what's the best space game currently out? Distant Worlds?

Master of Orion (1993)

BgRdMchne
Oct 31, 2011

GorfZaplen posted:

Master of Orion (1993)

I never played the first one. What’s different from the sequel?

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

a7m2 posted:

So what's the best space game currently out? Distant Worlds?

yeah

Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011
How difficult is DW to get into, by the way? I've always been tempted to try it, but I'm not sure how intuitive its systems are, since I haven't really heard a lot about it.
(Also, it doesn't have multiplayer, right? Since that was also something that drew me to Stellaris over DW, initially)

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
the game is actually less complex than it first appears, but it has a cool system where the taxes you raise are based on how good your civilian economy is doing, which can be hosed up by enemy raiders. i have no idea how the land combat system works in general. or, really, anything other than space combat. its very paradox game where its actually fairly simplistic but there's 10,000 stats modifying actions that make it look really in-depth

Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011

Larry Parrish posted:

the game is actually less complex than it first appears, but it has a cool system where the taxes you raise are based on how good your civilian economy is doing, which can be hosed up by enemy raiders. i have no idea how the land combat system works in general. or, really, anything other than space combat. its very paradox game where its actually fairly simplistic but there's 10,000 stats modifying actions that make it look really in-depth

Huh, OK that sounds pretty interesting. So like, while your main fleet is duking it out with the enemy's in various battles/skirmishes, can you have 'commerce raiders' behind enemy lines attacking civilian shipping? (Like what happened a bit during the 1900s, as well as in earlier centuries) Or are there no civilian ships like in Stellaris, so in order to impact the economy you'd need to blockade or invade worlds, directly?

Either way, it sounds very interesting - I wish I had looked into DW more deeply, sooner. Might need to pick it up during the next sale, seeing as everyone here has been saying that Stellaris still needs fleshing-out. (Haven't bought the latest expansion, myself)

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Agean90
Jun 28, 2008


Major Isoor posted:

Huh, OK that sounds pretty interesting. So like, while your main fleet is duking it out with the enemy's in various battles/skirmishes, can you have 'commerce raiders' behind enemy lines attacking civilian shipping? (Like what happened a bit during the 1900s, as well as in earlier centuries) Or are there no civilian ships like in Stellaris, so in order to impact the economy you'd need to blockade or invade worlds, directly?

Either way, it sounds very interesting - I wish I had looked into DW more deeply, sooner. Might need to pick it up during the next sale, seeing as everyone here has been saying that Stellaris still needs fleshing-out. (Haven't bought the latest expansion, myself)

Basically there's an entire automated civillian economy that runs freighters, passenger liners, independent miners, etc running in the back ground. You collect taxes off of their activities, as well as lump sums from them using your shipyards to build their ships. Its a cool system.

Cant wait to see what the dev does in distant worlds 2

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