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Vincent Van Goatse posted:We've known the flood control infrastructure around Sacramento has needed major overhauling for years. The problem is that it's a really loving big job that costs a lot and nobody really wanted to actually step up and deal with it. Problem is that a lot of levees belong to local agencies who don't have any money. The state spent a shitload of bond money over the last 10-15 years doing much of the engineering work to figure out where the bad spots in the levee system are and how best to fix each area, then handed that information over to the levee owners for free, but many levee owners are slow to do anything about it because tax dollars. withak fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Feb 13, 2017 |
# ? Feb 13, 2017 04:14 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 05:05 |
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https://twitter.com/CA_DWR/status/830972294784655361
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 04:29 |
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withak posted:Problem is that a lot of levees belong to local agencies who don't have any money. The state spent a shitload of bond money over the last 10-15 years doing much of the engineering work to figure out where the bad spots in the levee system are and how best to fix each area, then handed that information over to the levee owners for free, but many levee owners are slow to do anything about it because tax dollars. There's also been a fair amount of new home construction in some of the areas that are protected by these old not well-built levees. Apparently the counties were the ones approving all of this but the state is ultimately on the hook to sort out the mess. I don't think Lake Oroville and storage above it was really on people's mind when it came to building more reservoirs. I haven't seen (though I haven't looked hard) anything in the way of inspection reports showing major damage prior to this, unlike some other shitshows in the last couple of decades. I didn't realize it was an earthen dam though.
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 04:31 |
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That seems like a really bad idea but I don't know exactly why. Anyone want to explain it to my dumb rear end?
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 04:32 |
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:That seems like a really bad idea but I don't know exactly why. Anyone want to explain it to my dumb rear end? Rocks fall, everybody dies.
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 04:35 |
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Dang. I wish there were pictures but I guess we'll have to wait until morning.
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 04:35 |
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:That seems like a really bad idea but I don't know exactly why. Anyone want to explain it to my dumb rear end? It's fairly standard in this sort of situation. The idea is to try to reduce or stop water flow and erosion.
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 04:37 |
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I mean I guess it's better than letting the spillway completely fail?
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 04:39 |
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The rocks may slow erosion as the spillway runs. Basically they would like to line the hole with riprap. IMO some O&M manager at the DWR got a call from someone extremely important who said "holy poo poo at least make it look like we are doing something even if every engineer in the office knows perfectly well there isn't really anything that will make a difference."
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 04:39 |
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:That seems like a really bad idea but I don't know exactly why. Anyone want to explain it to my dumb rear end? basically a big hole appeared in the emergency spillway and as water rushes into the hole it causes further erosion as the water churns around. the hole is getting bigger and is eroding upstream towards the spillway lip, which could cause the spillway to collapse and relase water even faster. if they dump rocks and crap into the hole it will slow the erosion, hopefully beyond the point in time where the water level of the lake is low enough to be safe it's desperate but it's either this or sit around and watch the spillways continue to erode
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 04:50 |
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To be clear: I'm not second-guessing the engineering which led to the decision to drop big rocks from helicopters, I'm just stunned that's what it's come to.
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 04:56 |
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Oroville eat the rocks
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 04:58 |
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If they can make it through the night they've got two days to figure something out: https://www.google.com/search?pws=0&q=weather+oroville
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 05:04 |
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They're getting the drop bags ready to go for the helicopters now https://twitter.com/judywbrandt/status/830984011065339904
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 05:07 |
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Whoops forgot to make the spillway water resistant, sorry folks.
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 17:07 |
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I'll echo what I posted to the osha thread: http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/02/12/oroville-dam-feds-and-state-officials-ignored-warnings-12-years-ago/ quote:More than a decade ago, federal and state officials and some of California’s largest water agencies rejected concerns that the massive earthen spillway at Oroville Dam — at risk of collapse Sunday night and prompting the evacuation of 185,000 people — could erode during heavy winter rains and cause a catastrophe. TLDR: DWR under Arnold and federal government under GWB ignored a request to properly construct a spillway so they could save money. Looks like a lot of local water districts including my own beloved SCVWD were implicated too. Finally, Southern California water policy continues to be terrible and somehow involved in norcal's water. Bonus from the politoon thread: Trogdos! posted:
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 17:27 |
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I think my favorite is the bearded Muslim cat eating the free welfare cereal. As for the water stuff, business as usual: the people who were in charge of infrastructure waved off concerns and waited for a disaster before they did anything.
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 17:47 |
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quote:This the the same vision Obama had for America. That’s why he drove hard to the hoop to import as many muslims here as he could. I like this dog whistle sneakily hidden next to the more overt stuff.
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 18:19 |
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My favorite thing about Ben Garrison is after people starting calling him out for being a racist shithead, he just stopped trying to hide it.
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 18:33 |
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The Wiggly Wizard posted:TLDR: DWR under Arnold and federal government under GWB ignored a request to properly construct a spillway so they could save money.
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 20:25 |
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"That's what you libtards get for not voting for Trump!" tweets the Republican as people suffer the dire consequences of voting for Schwarzenegger and Dubya.
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 20:28 |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjfrJzdx7DA
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 21:10 |
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idiotsavant posted:That's what most of this boils down to, doesn't it? This is one of the end results of starve-the-beast politics that Republicans played in California. I bet if you looked at the Butte County Board of Supes it's not a whole lot better, either. But to play Devil's Advocate, they said that the dam met whatever engineering guidelines they had. Were the standards too low?
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 21:38 |
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Ron Jeremy posted:But to play Devil's Advocate, they said that the dam met whatever engineering guidelines they had. Were the standards too low? Well the emergency spillway handled this overflow without failing, so if the design standard was that it survive this particular event then it worked exactly as designed. We will have to see whether it can handle two events in a row. It is always possible to spend more money and make a project safer, but at some point someone has to decide when things are safe enough and stop spending money. Whoever makes that decision becomes a prime target for armchair dam engineers and Monday-morning quarterbacking after any kind of incident like this. withak fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Feb 13, 2017 |
# ? Feb 13, 2017 22:08 |
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The first rubber meets the road for our disrespect of king cheeto. quote:"A high ranking unnamed source, who spoke with the Dispatch on the condition of anonymity, has confirmed that President Trump has denied the request on grounds that California, and the city of Sacramento in particular, have failed to enforce federal immigration laws and have threatened to succeed from the Union" The question is will we turn our backs after furiously pounding our chest? hell yes. we're beta af. Fake news site. incoherent fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Feb 13, 2017 |
# ? Feb 13, 2017 22:14 |
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incoherent posted:http://sacramentodispatch.com/trump-denies-ca-plea-for-federal-funds-cites-sanctuary-cities/ So beta means bottom homosexuals?
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 22:17 |
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I will 100% stand by our sanctuary status and all of pain that will come with it, and losing FEMA money is a very real reality. I just don't think the #justwoke are going to be so...sympathetic when their houses gets BTFO because we took a gamble. e: Snoops with the quickness http://www.snopes.com/trump-federal-aid-california/ incoherent fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Feb 13, 2017 |
# ? Feb 13, 2017 22:21 |
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California has actually threatened to succeed from the union.
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 22:26 |
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incoherent posted:I will 100% stand by our sanctuary status and all of pain that will come with it, and losing FEMA money is a very real reality. I just don't think the #justwoke are going to be so...sympathetic when their houses gets BTFO because we took a gamble. I'm glad we cleared that up, now we just have to hope that the President of the United States doesn't read the article himself and believe it.
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 22:47 |
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withak posted:California has actually threatened to succeed from the union. We're going to succeed so much, you're going to get sick and tired of us succeeding! They'll say "Please Mr. Brown, we don't want to succeed anymore." And Jerry's going to say "Sorry, but we're going to succeed, succeed, succeed!" Pet peeve of mine, leaving the country would be seceding, not succeeding.
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 23:03 |
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Let's not lay it all on the Governator, guys. Water districts are also easily among the most corrupt parts of local government, regardless of party, operating as they do in an area that is boring enough to receive very little scrutiny but important enough to receive a lot of government money. This is an end result of decades of them under prioritizing actual investment in modernizing infrastructure while spending taxpayer money on themselves. The Schwarzenegger administration ignored the problem, but it was just a continuation of a larger pattern of neglect, graft and incompetence.
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 23:53 |
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Oroville Dam is owned and operated by the State of California Department of Water Resources.
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# ? Feb 13, 2017 23:55 |
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withak posted:Oroville Dam is owned and operated by the State of California Department of Water Resources. And funded in part by the water boards, who balked at the cost of upgrading the emergency spillway in 2005.
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# ? Feb 14, 2017 00:12 |
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withak posted:Well the emergency spillway handled this overflow without failing, so if the design standard was that it survive this particular event then it worked exactly as designed. We will have to see whether it can handle two events in a row. Actually according to that article wiggly wizard posted, the spillway is failing despite only handling 5% of its design capacity. quote:On Sunday, with flows of only 6,000 to 12,000 cubic feet per second — water only a foot or two deep and less than 5 percent of the rate that FERC said was safe — erosion at the emergency spillway became so severe that officials from the State Department of Water Resources ordered the evacuation of more than 185,000 people. The fear was that the erosion could undercut the 1,730-foot-long concrete lip along the top of the emergency spillway, allowing billions of gallons of water to pour down the hillside toward Oroville and other towns downstream. The design standard was that this emergency spillway should safely handle up to 350,000 feet per second of water. In view of what happened this weekend, that number is plainly absurd.
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# ? Feb 14, 2017 00:41 |
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I would be surprised if it was actually designed for 350,000 cfs. That sounds more like someone plugged some numbers into a weir equation to answer a question without thinking about the actual conditions.
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# ? Feb 14, 2017 01:01 |
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withak posted:I would be surprised if it was actually designed for 350,000 cfs. That sounds more like someone plugged some numbers into a weir equation to answer a question without thinking about the actual conditions. What could even cause a twenty foot wave of water to come crashing over the emergency spillway?
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# ? Feb 14, 2017 02:15 |
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TildeATH posted:What could even cause a twenty foot wave of water to come crashing over the emergency spillway? massive rockslide into the reservoir
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# ? Feb 14, 2017 02:23 |
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Raskolnikov38 posted:massive rockslide into the reservoir I think the level of "massive" you could plan for in that geology is in the range of the 140 slide, and that into Lake Oroville would barely budge the needle. I agree with the previous poster that it sounds like BS.
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# ? Feb 14, 2017 02:26 |
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TildeATH posted:What could even cause a twenty foot wave of water to come crashing over the emergency spillway? An asteroid hitting the lake. At which point you've got other things to worry about than the overspill.
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# ? Feb 14, 2017 03:14 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 05:05 |
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Hmm, yes, there's a civil engineer working for FERC's statement on the design capacity as reported by the San Jose Mercury News, and then there's the gut feeling of random goons going "yeah that sounds like too much water, that can't have been the design capacity." Sure. Obviously it's an impossible amount of water. That's why a FERC civil engineer said it; he can't do math. e. We'll also ignore that the design capacity of the normal spillway is 250,000 CFS. Obviously that's an unrealistic amount of water. How could there be so much water??? Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Feb 14, 2017 |
# ? Feb 14, 2017 03:14 |