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Galaga Galaxian posted:Why? It costs 25% MP as is to use on a job that operates on a steady MP deficit and has only Lucid Dreaming for MP regen. Any time I've had to cast multiple veraises in a short period has left me gassed and nearly useless for a while. Especially since if I'm picking up a healer I'll usually Mana shift them to get them going faster (assuming it's off cool down). 25% of your mp isn't actually that scary if you (a) have Lucid Dreaming available and (b) have a bard/machinist. Honestly probably just either of them. I basically never ever have mp issues except when I'm raising 3-4 people at a time, which is still worth the mp cost because the alternative in those situations is generally wiping.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:28
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Gizmo Chicken posted:Hello RDM friends. I've picked it up and I really enjoy it, but I have one quick question: What number of targets do I start AoEing at, 3? 3 targets is Scatter -> Veraero/thunder, 4 targets+ is scatter/scatter.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:28
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me being a font of unpopular opinions today: red mages being able to cast a truly stupid number of raises at the cost of lobotomizing their own damage tends to result in extremely long, drawn out, hopeless wipes against enrages five minutes in the future, which is often not very fun
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Jul 17, 2017 20:30
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ImpAtom posted:3 targets is Scatter -> Veraero/thunder Also two targets if you don't have Jolt 2.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:31
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again, I don't actually think Verraise needs a nerf, the situations where you need to spam it AND can recover after having done so is basically a single-point list that says "raid fights without enrages" which isn't exactly challenging content in the first place. but i see it brought up constantly when talking about RDM utility vs the other casters and as Reiter has mentioned before SE isn't opposed to listening to the community
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Jul 17, 2017 20:31
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Gizmo Chicken posted:Hello RDM friends. I've picked it up and I really enjoy it, but I have one quick question: What number of targets do I start AoEing at, 3? Scatter is 100 potency and generates 3/3 Mana with a 25% chance of enhancing the next scatter to generate 8/8. Veraero and Verstone are 300 potency 11 Mana of their type. Thus against 4+ targets scatter+scatter is what you usually want to do. Against exactly 3 targets I recommend Scatter+Aero/Thunder as it's the same total Potency but generates Mana faster (and thus gets you to where you can use your enchanted AoE weapon skill faster). Ignore fire and stone procs while AoEing.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:31
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If you raise people they won't have silent time to reflect on what they did wrong. Stop enabling.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:32
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Reiterpallasch posted:me being a font of unpopular opinions today: red mages being able to cast a truly stupid number of raises at the cost of lobotomizing their own damage tends to result in extremely long, drawn out, hopeless wipes against enrages five minutes in the future, which is often not very fun yeah that's sorta part of it too. like basically zero Susano EX parties I joined ever wiped to mechanics, it was always the enrage timer, but that's because I was able to constantly rez people with very little immediate downside. had I not been there as a RDM a lot of those parties would have still wiped, but done so 3-4 minutes earlier.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:34
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And it's probably a ways off but an unintuitive but more effective way to use mana in aoe packs later on is to build to 100/100, enchanted moulinet x2, scatter x2, manafication, enchanted moulinet x3. At this point if you didn't use an aggro reduction ability before that you are now dead.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:34
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I'm glad I have a WAR at 60 as well cause depending on what happens tonight it could end up hella fun and beefy
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Jul 17, 2017 20:36
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Reiterpallasch posted:as someone who mained a class that was colossally overpowered through all of 3.x: people who main an overpowered class then bleat that "the other classes should be brought up to this level" are actual retards. classes aren't just balanced against each other. the three points of the trinity are balanced against each other. As someone who mained a class that caused people to drop out of groups (or were kicked out of groups because 'lolpld') because it increased their clear time by ~20 seconds (those A1S light farming idiots  ) Squeenix's take on buffing instead of nerfing is a refreshing change, both because it takes more effort and that said effort is noticeable. Lopping potency off of overpowered things is the easy way out and usually doesn't fix the fundamental problems that are actually happening (Pet jankyness with SMN/SCH, WAR&DRK having useless/counterintuitive buttons, DRG having to stick to a battle buddy in addition to a really long lead-up time on their SICK RED DRAGON LASER button etc.)Reiterpallasch posted:the devs gently caress up catastrophically whenever asked to do a lot of design work If new PLD, AST, BRD etc. are catastrophic fuckups they need to catastrophically gently caress up that way some more with everyone else 
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Jul 17, 2017 20:37
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Enchanted Moulinet is a gift to mankind. If I don't see some Spin to Win from my pubbie RDM in an AoE pull, I genuinely hate them.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:37
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EponymousMrYar posted:If new PLD, AST, BRD etc. are catastrophic fuckups they need to catastrophically gently caress up that way some more with everyone else you just named the biggest balance mistake in 4.x, carryover from the second biggest balance mistake from 3.x, and BRD, which is admittedly cool and good right now in large part because MCH is in the dumpster
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Jul 17, 2017 20:39
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it's worth noting at this point that dps balance is extremely off right now, tank balance is extremely off right now, and healer balance is actually kind of decent (all three of the healers have a place in a party) guess which one of those three everyone was screaming their heads off about
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Jul 17, 2017 20:43
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Here's my prediction: they're going to overcorrect the balance issues, and then overcorrect the overcorrection, and so on and so forth until they finally get it through their heads that they should maybe be getting player feedback before the changes go live and set up a public test server.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:44
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Counterpoint: Players are idiots and you should never listen to them.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:46
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Reiterpallasch posted:it's worth noting at this point that dps balance is extremely off right now, tank balance is extremely off right now, and healer balance is actually kind of decent (all three of the healers have a place in a party) Well, the Japanese population at least screamed a great deal about DPS balance. Google translate on their DRG thread is incredible--"DRG is kill." Though I think ultimately the issue is that they introduce two new DPS jobs almost entirely unencumbered by timer nonsense--as is the default for nearly every other DPS--which sets into stark relief how punishing elaborate phase changes and ultimate animations for bosses are, compared to something like Samurai which actively gets rewarded for a long break in DPS.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:47
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i guess it's true that i have no idea what people were screaming about on 2ch, who knows, maybe they actually are just better at this game than we are idk
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Jul 17, 2017 20:48
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Reiterpallasch posted:the devs gently caress up catastrophically whenever asked to do a lot of design work The Devs seem to do best when they're designing something from the ground up. I would point to all six jobs added post-2.0 as an example. OTOH it seems that the devs can be hit or miss is bolting poo poo onto existing jobs.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:48
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MCH does have that bitchin flamethrower though That screenshot of the dragonwaif going full arsonist was pretty sweet
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Jul 17, 2017 20:49
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Asimo posted:Counterpoint: Players are idiots and you should never listen to them. public test servers are really good. even if not for player feedback directly but because it provides a huge amount of data. poo poo like ninja apparently having an alternative rotation that the devs used (?????) wouldn't have ever made it live with a test server.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:49
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Captain Oblivious posted:DRK mostly has two weird balance points right now: Also Blood Price is total assgarbage right now, but I don't see that changing since it was an infinite mana button before. RIP DA'd Abyssal Drain though. Giving Quietus some kind of damage debuff would be pretty sweet, since it'd help make up for the loss of Dark Dance. DRK feels like it's one good cooldown short of a full package, though that's mostly due to Dark Mind being useless some of the time.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:49
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I think they'll do alright and I have faith. Besides, PLD doesn't need nerfing. A good DPS still does a lot more damage than a good paladin, so there's not much reason at all to nerf.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:50
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Jinh posted:(and smn having the same issue with their demi-bahamut) my favorite thing about how bad it is, is the size. I dpsed susano with smn in a partial clear group yesterday, and every time I pressed Bahamut I had this half a second hestiation of "I hope to god this doesn't block someone from being able to see the lightning debuff on their head..." whenever someone DID gently caress it up, it felt like it was my fault. that's perhaps the worst possible state for a class to be in.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:50
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Countblanc posted:public test servers are really good. even if not for player feedback directly but because it provides a huge amount of data. poo poo like ninja apparently having an alternative rotation that the devs used (?????) wouldn't have ever made it live with a test server. That'll never happen, for reasons of JP dev conservatism and secrecy dot jay pee gee.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:51
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Meiteron posted:(as well as a hilarious admission that, oh yeah, Shake it Off is entirely loving useless in a game where all the debuffs you care about are unremovable so this entire button needs to be redone). And this is why I wish they'd subtitle these drat things in-situ, because you'd never get that joke in the utterly-sanitized forum posts. Seriously, I've only ever used it a handful of times to remove the drat 20 second, non-diminishing returns heavy you get from enemies attacking you while you're riding past trying to get somewhere, and Doom a handful of others.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:54
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can i stop shitposting briefly to say how hysterical i find it that the devs missed the best ninja rotation twice now
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Jul 17, 2017 20:54
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Reiterpallasch posted:can i stop shitposting briefly No, never stop
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Jul 17, 2017 20:54
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Asimo posted:Counterpoint: Players are idiots and you should never listen to them. They have to listen to players no matter what, unless they spend a poo poo load of money on hiring new testers, and also decide to go back to the 1.0 era of development. Remember that one of the big things about saving this game was "hey we should listen to the players more". The problem isn't listening to player feedback, it's that they don't get player feedback until the changes they've made are already live, so they end up having to make further changes, which also receive no feedback until they go live.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:56
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Reiterpallasch posted:can i stop shitposting briefly to say how hysterical i find it that the devs missed the best ninja rotation twice now That's probably a mistranslation. Nobody in the ninja channel on The Balance has any loving idea what it could be referring to. The rotation we use is the obviously intended one.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:57
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honestly, from the bottom of my heart: i'm glad
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Jul 17, 2017 20:59
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I can only guess re: the Ninja thing that they're referring to using Doton at the end of a TCJ (so Jin-Fuma, Ten-Katon, Chi-Doton) to get more damage out single target than the more obvious seeming Fuma-Raiton-Suiton, and they just said "fine gently caress it nerf Gust Slash" as a stopgap 
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Jul 17, 2017 20:59
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Also worth noting that "get more feedback from the players" in no way means "do everything the players want".
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Jul 17, 2017 21:00
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Asimo posted:Counterpoint: Players are idiots and you should never listen to them. The actual Dev rule of thumb for this is: Players have a really good idea of what's wrong but they have absolutely horrible ideas on how to fix it. Listen to players for problems, remember it's your game and not theirs when checking out their advice on how to fix said problems.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:01
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Captain Oblivious posted:DRK mostly has two weird balance points right now: i feel like instead of blind, dark arts dark passenger should have some mitigation boost on it. like a large amount of parry or just some 10-15% flat mitigation. they just have less cooldowns than other tanks, and the cooldowns they do have are usually worse. these would mitigation the lack of cooldowns with the uselessness of DP. if you just way buff the potency of quietus with DA, then you've got a full suite of DA for mitigation and DA for damage to use it on again. Minera fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 21:01
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Countblanc posted:public test servers are really good. even if not for player feedback directly but because it provides a huge amount of data. poo poo like ninja apparently having an alternative rotation that the devs used (?????) wouldn't have ever made it live with a test server. i'm pretty sure all that was, was people using Ten-Chi-Jin to Doton single target, which iirc is something like a 200-300 potency boost over using it on suiton. which, hilariously, almost perfectly matches the potency loss on gust slash in their rotation. Devs bought into the "no STDs" meme so hard they didnt think at all to use it with TCJ lol e: gently caress thread went way too fast on new posts while I was in a frontline, someone already pointed this out 
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Jul 17, 2017 21:03
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Minrad posted:my favorite thing about how bad it is, is the size. I dpsed susano with smn in a partial clear group yesterday, and every time I pressed Bahamut I had this half a second hestiation of "I hope to god this doesn't block someone from being able to see the lightning debuff on their head..." Don't worry it's honestly OK and people' s whining about it is overblown (big surprise) My first susano ex clear had 2 smn in it and it was hardly noticeable. As an ex smn who never got to experience the new summon I just think "that guy's having a Really Good Time right now" and rotate my camera a tiny bit and maybe zoom out if I'm not already. I like to think other people feel the same toward me when I drop a Verholy or use my lb3 so it's only fair.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:06
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EponymousMrYar posted:The actual Dev rule of thumb for this is: Players have a really good idea of what's wrong but they have absolutely horrible ideas on how to fix it. Listen to players for problems, remember it's your game and not theirs when checking out their advice on how to fix said problems. 
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Jul 17, 2017 21:06
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people are daring to run comps that don't include scholar, a true injustice that must be answered
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Jul 17, 2017 21:07
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Minrad posted:they just have less cooldowns than other tanks, and the cooldowns they do have are usually worse. these would mitigation the lack of cooldowns with the uselessness of DP. No idea why Shadow Wall is also 10% less mitigation than PLD's Sentinel, despite having the same cooldown and duration. On the flipside, if you compare Shadow Wall to WAR's Vengence (since both give 30% damage reduction), it falls short there too -- Vengence lasts longer, has 2m cooldown instead of 3m, and reflects some damage back. Atleast the animation is... edgier... I guess...
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Jul 17, 2017 21:07
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