|
Gatts posted:Along with Marvel Oops Phase I guess we're going to need a Cosmic Cube to fix all this poo poo again...right? Or can we get some other super powered man/doohicky? Franklin Richards is right loving there.
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 02:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 20:33 |
|
|
Skwirl posted:Franklin Richards is right loving there. Franklin Richards is off making more universes were the Nazis won. He is very busy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 02:49
|
|
|
WAIT. This could mean the return of Hauptmann Englande, which would be cool.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 02:56
|
|
|
Endless Mike posted:WAIT. This could mean the return of Hauptmann Englande, which would be cool. Is that the Universe with Nazi Exalibur? Because gently caress that being a reality.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 03:12
|
|
|
We've been talking about this ALL DAY in the retailer group and only one person seems to think it's a good idea. It's a shame we can't slash our FCBD orders because holy gently caress "THE NAZIS ACTUALLY WON" is disgusting.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 03:39
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:We've been talking about this ALL DAY in the retailer group and only one person seems to think it's a good idea. It's a shame we can't slash our FCBD orders because holy gently caress "THE NAZIS ACTUALLY WON" is disgusting. Is the general consensus that Marvel has lost the plot?
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 04:03
|
|
|
Onmi posted:Is the general consensus that Marvel has lost the plot? Well, at least their heart is in the reich place.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 04:10
|
|
|
This sounds like an excellent idea that I am sure will be handled extremely well by Marvel's crop of super-talented writers. The same crop that gave us Civil War 2.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 04:11
|
|
|
Onmi posted:Is the general consensus that Marvel has lost the plot? Well the group only has a few hundred members, many of which are from the same shops so it's not a true representation. Of course Dennis Barger LOVES it. redbackground posted:Well, at least their heart is in the reich place. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 04:11
|
|
|
redbackground posted:Well, at least their heart is in the reich place. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHoNWwhzh3M
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 04:48
|
|
|
Feels like typical hot shotting, which is unfortunately Marvel's m.o. for the past few years. Create a controversial storyline, watch as it spikes their social media and news coverage numbers, see a bump in sales as the event kicks off, then the numbers drop back to normal. Hardcore fans still stick around because it's pretty hard to shake that fanbase. Of course a few will tell everyone and their mother this is the worst thing that has ever happened and stop buying. After a few years it will be reset or otherwise worked around/ignored, and number will continue to slump because the gently caress if anyone can figure out the formula to make a series that's popular and sees increased growth over the years.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 05:27
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:Well the group only has a few hundred members, many of which are from the same shops so it's not a true representation. I had to Google that name, and... ah yes. He looks like a real piece of work. I wonder what Namor (I assume he's back from the dead because, hey, comics) and the original Human Torch think about this
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 06:00
|
|
|
If nothing else, at least America #1 is in retrospect a much better comic.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 06:46
|
|
|
I don't think marvels decision is offensive it's a fictional story it's just dumb. However interesting stories have been told in that setting (Man in the high castle, Wolfenstien) which are pretty popular right now so it's possible someone at Marvel is having a hard on for alternative history fiction. I doubt very seriously Marvels current crop of writers are up to the task of making it interesting however.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 07:27
|
|
|
Yeah, the premise is dumb but getting all triggered by it is kind of embarrassing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 08:00
|
|
|
PaybackJack posted:Feels like typical hot shotting, which is unfortunately Marvel's m.o. for the past few years. Create a controversial storyline, watch as it spikes their social media and news coverage numbers, see a bump in sales as the event kicks off, then the numbers drop back to normal. Hardcore fans still stick around because it's pretty hard to shake that fanbase. Of course a few will tell everyone and their mother this is the worst thing that has ever happened and stop buying. After a few years it will be reset or otherwise worked around/ignored, and number will continue to slump because the gently caress if anyone can figure out the formula to make a series that's popular and sees increased growth over the years. It also reeks to me of a writer just brainstorming ways to outsmart the fans. "They'll never expect for me to turn INTO the shitstorm! HAH! Brilliant!" It's an awful idea for a story, and the timing is pretty awful.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 08:27
|
|
|
i kinda think it will be fun 
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 08:36
|
|
|
Happy Hippo posted:Yeah, the premise is dumb but getting all triggered by it is kind of embarrassing. Ha your kind of embarrassing really
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 08:42
|
|
|
 I am not good with Photoshop but it was impossible not to think of that story CharlestheHammer posted:Ha your kind of embarrassing really Threep fucked around with this message at 09:07 on Mar 29, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 09:04
|
|
|
If Donald Trump was president in the 30s there wouldn't have even been a WW2. He would have used his skills as a negotiator to mediate peace treaties and make sure all parties were happy using the art of the deal. Then we wouldn't have even needed to use otherworldly devices to win the war. Believe me
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 09:29
|
|
|
Go away
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 09:41
|
|
|
So, wait...does this mean Marvel's technically had a reboot?
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 09:45
|
|
|
The obvious reversal here, even if they don't just go "No, someone lied to Cap," is: Sure, the Nazis "won." After they were the first ones to use a Cosmic Cube. So the "natural" state is Allied victory-- if probably less bizarre, or perhaps with fewer Captains America.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 10:03
|
|
|
I'm looking forward to the iconic cover image of Captain America punching himself in the face.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 10:28
|
|
|
Pat Mustard posted:I'm looking forward to the iconic cover image of Captain America punching himself in the face. Look! Everyone loves the Original Five X-Men, so let's bring in 1945 era Captain America! We'll make the current Captain America a nazi so that we can replace him with the 1945, not a nazi version. Won't it be awesome getting to tell "man out of time" stories again?
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 10:52
|
|
|
PaybackJack posted:Feels like typical hot shotting, which is unfortunately Marvel's m.o. for the past few years. Create a controversial storyline, watch as it spikes their social media and news coverage numbers, see a bump in sales as the event kicks off, then the numbers drop back to normal. Hardcore fans still stick around because it's pretty hard to shake that fanbase. Of course a few will tell everyone and their mother this is the worst thing that has ever happened and stop buying. After a few years it will be reset or otherwise worked around/ignored, and number will continue to slump because the gently caress if anyone can figure out the formula to make a series that's popular and sees increased growth over the years. Yeah, gently caress this. The story I care about ended with the incursions. Kind of a pitiful ending, but sometimes endings are like that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 11:24
|
|
|
Yvonmukluk posted:So, wait...does this mean Marvel's technically had a reboot? In some respects Secret Wars was a reboot because didn't they have to rebuild all the marvel worlds from scratch at the end
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 11:43
|
|
|
If the original timeline had the Nazis win, does that mean Franklin Richards (who recreated the multiverse in which that happened) is a Nazi?
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 11:53
|
|
|
Svensken posted:If the original timeline had the Nazis win, does that mean Franklin Richards (who recreated the multiverse in which that happened) is a Nazi?
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 12:01
|
|
|
I'm blaming Franklin for Marvel still considering Greg Land a superstar artist in the year 2017.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 12:02
|
|
|
Mr President posted:However interesting stories have been told in that setting (Man in the high castle, Wolfenstien) which are pretty popular right now so it's possible someone at Marvel is having a hard on for alternative history fiction. The key difference being that 1) those are presented at the onset as being alternate histories, not a multi-decade retcon bait-and-switch and 2) Marvel already has Earth-597 to play with the idea of an Axis victory in WWII so why gently caress with the entire publishing history of the company? And it is absolutely offensive to alter the origin story of Captain America like this, to imply that the creation of two Jews as an act of empowerment and defiance when the US was still uninvolved in the conflict was always actually really a Nazi. Honestly, all the rest of it would be just garden variety comic book stupid, it's specifically altering Cap in this particular way that tips it into offensive.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 12:43
|
|
|
Put it like this... if you order a Pizza and then it arrives and you open the box to find a newspaper. Yeah, you didn't see it coming, it "Gotcha" but you still want a god damned pizza and all you have is this lovely newspaper. Marvel thinks the Gotcha is more important than giving you what you want, which is a Pizza.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 12:57
|
|
|
rantmo posted:The key difference being that 1) those are presented at the onset as being alternate histories, not a multi-decade retcon bait-and-switch and 2) Marvel already has Earth-597 to play with the idea of an Axis victory in WWII so why gently caress with the entire publishing history of the company? And it is absolutely offensive to alter the origin story of Captain America like this, to imply that the creation of two Jews as an act of empowerment and defiance when the US was still uninvolved in the conflict was always actually really a Nazi. Honestly, all the rest of it would be just garden variety comic book stupid, it's specifically altering Cap in this particular way that tips it into offensive. Mr President/alucard nacirema likes trolling with alt-right talking points because nobody sympathized with his hatred of "forced diversity" characters like GAY RAY and Jaime Reyes, so he's probably thinks this is delicious irony-revenge that now people care about reconning the backstory of established characters in drastic ways Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Mar 29, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 13:02
|
|
|
Ugh, how many more issues of Cap America: Steve/Sam are there before this crossover starts? I've been enjoying the Sam Wilson one, and been reading Steve Rogers as a kind-of companion piece to that. But now I have no interest in this event, but still want to finish those two titles off before dropping off on the story line.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 14:04
|
|
|
Yeah this story sounds bad, but I can see it ending up in the dustbin with Carol Denver's husband/kid, Norman and Gwen's kid, and evil Tony Stark and Teen Tony (which this event sounds a lot like).
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 15:50
|
|
|
I know the answer is because nobody bought it, but why can't we just have more good comics like Spider-Woman, and less crap like this Nazi bullshit storyline thing sounds like?  Spider-Woman was real good, and now I want a crossover with the Renew Your Vows Spider-Fam.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 15:56
|
|
|
I guess I can see what they're going for-- Spencer's big on amplification, amplification, AMPLIFICATION as his vehicle for making a point in his stories, and sometimes that's fine, and sometimes it's just silly. I think the idea here is, on paper, that to write about how superheroes would respond to a world that seems to be sliding dangerous into fascism, you need to write a story where superheroes are in a world that's slid very rapidl into fascism. And if you want to write about how those tendencies were disturbingly baked into the national fabric from day one, well, fella you better write a Cosmic Cube story. This is of course nonsense but it doesn't automatically guarantee a totally worthless story. This is kind of the logic underwriting his Sam Wilson book too. He's writing stories that aren't uninteresting on paper, but the lengths to which he goes to contort his points into superhero plots and his superhero plots into talking points is occasionally awkward. I think you certainly can tell thoughtful political stories in this medium, but his basic approach has two primary flaws: a) He's fixated on probing just a bit into how these issues would be different in a world of superheroes-- not quite far enough to be meaningful, but far enough to accidentally outline the bathos of seeing Rage the Very Strong 12 Year Old as political agitator. Is he making a point about the real world? Pursuing a sci-fi mental exercise about ethics in a world subtly different than ours? Having wry Gruenwald-style continuity fun ("what if The Bar With No Name was its own country...?"). This tends to be ok in his slighter works, or works where we can more easily distance Spencer's own beliefs from those of his characters. Deadly Foes was fine. The AIM Island stuff in Secret Avegers was fine. Again, he's a good ersatz-Gruenwald. I'm sure if Spencer had created the Serpent Society he'd have done a fine job. b) This method of amplification makes it very easy for Spencer to lapse into making a bunch of trite straw-men. The Americops or Americorp or whatever in his Sam Wilson book gesture at a meaningful point about race and policing but that point is lost when they all look like Penance dressing up as a Tom of Finland character for Halloween. His Maria Hill plotline gestures at the broad outlines of an interesting direction for a Captain America comic based on high-concept spy intrigue, but again, since the writing isn't up to snuff and this kind of story depends on nuance and subtlety it end up being just about a bunch of dumb idiots making ineffectual power plays at the air around them. c) Spencer's own politics seem to make him an uncomfortable choice for this kind of story. If we're reading about nazis in a comic book superhero comic, I presume that we all are in it to see them get beaten up. If we're reading a story about nazis in real life we presumably want the same thing. Spencer's carefully studied and rather poorly timed fence-sitting is certainly.... a reaction to have to real-world current events, and I'm not saying a writer's politics are a guaranteed predictor of how their stories will turn out, but Spencer's recent comics have been unpleasantly timid about characters fighting back against structural and systemic evil. This isn't just an ethical issue, it's a narrative one. I read superhero comics because I want to see people fighting. I want to see Sam Wilson fight MODOK, I want to see him fight Constrictor, and you know what, if the flying man with the telepathic bird is going to run into police brutality, yes, I would like to see him physically pummel and punch that too. Superhero comics' potential as a fantasy of agency and strength isn't just a juvenile power trip-- there's something energizing and liberating about seeing cartoonishly good people beating up the huge, unassailable forces that make our friends and families and neighbors suffer. If there's a gentrifying development company in Ms. Marvel's hometown you're drat right I want her to punch it with her huge fist. If Hitler's clone is wearing a purple KKK mask and making Kirby poses, I absolutely want Benjamin Grimm to turn his adam's apple to apple sauce. That's how the medium works-- that's the beautiful dream of transcending the unhappy world that this stupid wonderful genre is predicated on. You can have Sam Wilson vacilate on how much to put up with police brutality, sure. You can have that for an issue or two, then you have him fly around and fight it with his powerful kicks and his incredible bird. This particular plot of all plots should remind us that, again, the foundational myth of this genre is scrawny Jewish kids making a person strong enough and fast enough and kind enough to fix everyone's problems, and that Captain America was created so that all the kids scared and worried fascism could see Hitler get socked in the jaw by someone handsome and colorful, someone who maybe reminded them of their dad or their big brother or the kind of person they wanted to grow up to be. Like, if Grant Morrison was writing this crossover, the premise might be the same, much of the shuffling the pieces into place might be the same, but I think many of us would go into it confident that by the end, love and fairness would beat hate and cruelty, that it would be corny and abrupt but also make us feel a little bit happier and braver after turning the last page, and that the silliness and the poor timing and the awkward metaphorizing would be probably, maybe, possibly worth it. I'm not at that point with Spencer-- again, I've liked his comics before but I think he lacks the conviction in the fundamental strengths of the genre to pull off something that could go so wrong and be so tacky. I don't want to see some fake Doonesbury poo poo about realpolitik and compromise. I want the Red Skull to get punched in the mush and I want love to win.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 16:22
|
|
|
This feel like something someone lit as gently caress would come up with "what if like...we weren't living in a real timeline?" "Whooooa"
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 17:22
|
|
|
Svensken posted:If the original timeline had the Nazis win, does that mean Franklin Richards (who recreated the multiverse in which that happened) is a Nazi? The entire event ends with the panel zooming out, Duck Amuck-style, until we see Franklin Richards with bags under his eyes hunched over the universe in a little sphere. Reed walks into frame and says "Son, you need to rest, you've been at this non-stop for days and frankly your work is getting a little sloppy." Future Franklin (with the beard) pops in going "Whoa! Really screwed the pooch there, huh? Don't worry, I can fix this..." and then every book relaunches with a new #1 as THE NEW 616 WAIT THAT'S TOO MANY.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 20:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 20:33 |
|
|
So anyway. Spider-Woman's probably been the best series in recent memory because not only did it have a great start, not only did it have a great middle, but it also had a fantastic finish. How many other books get to say that? Well, probably books that aren't over yet 'cuz they're still being published, haha. Ha. Hahaha.  (how long 'til her baby is revealed to be a Nazi)
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 20:22
|
|
