|
This was maybe not the writers' intent but if warp ten is infinite it's impossible for any logarithmic scale to actually reflect warp speeds. It's also not incredibly clear what higher decimals on 9.9 would mean (other than "faster when you're already going crazy fast") at that point because nine represents some finite speed and, to rip off a handy Carl Sagan soundbite, any finite number is exactly as far away from infinity as one is. So, they might've been operating on a loose heuristic, such that we're meant to assume logarithms, but in practice anything they nailed down would just be arbitrary and wouldn't set a precedent for yet higher decimals. Basically my point here is we're thinking about this more than they were.
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 23:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 13:31 |
|
|
It'd just be asymptotic, not logarithmic.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 23:36
|
|
|
Anyway I watched Symbiosis and Skin of Evil. The heavy-handed 80s/90s anti-drug message in Symbiosis was nostalgic and there was a lot of stupid poo poo in the episode (like how at the end Picard says they'll never know what effect their actions would have even though they could come back and visit anytime). Skin of Evil, the one where Tasha Yar dies, was just bizarre. The way the villain was so evil yet so pitiable reminded me of Caliborn in a bad way. And they didn't seem sad enough at the funeral. Also she was just tossed aside like a rag doll when she was supposed to be this security expert, she really should have had a better death.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 23:39
|
|
|
This will always be the Star Trek theme as far as I'm concerned: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjxNnqTcHhg
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 23:40
|
|
|
SomeMathGuy posted:This was maybe not the writers' intent but if warp ten is infinite it's impossible for any logarithmic scale to actually reflect warp speeds. It's also not incredibly clear what higher decimals on 9.9 would mean (other than "faster when you're already going crazy fast") at that point because nine represents some finite speed and, to rip off a handy Carl Sagan soundbite, any finite number is exactly as far away from infinity as one is. No one ever said it was a logarithm, just that the curve is drawn on a log scale. Here's a high-res re-creation of the graph from the old TNG tech manual:  A quote about its creation: Mike Okuda posted:Between 9 and 10, I gradually increased the exponent so that it approached infinity as the warp factor approached 10. Lacking knowledge of calculus, I just drew what looked to me to be a credible curve on graph paper, then pulled the points from there. Source.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 23:40
|
|
|
It's kinda vaguely similar to transmission gearing. You can be doing 50 km/h at 4500 rpm in first gear or at 3000 rpm in second gear or at 2000 rpm in third gear, but in order to be in third gear you have to accelerate the engine and shift gears as you work your way up. That's my rear end-pull and I'm sticking to it.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 00:28
|
|
|
spincube posted:I think there was the wrinkle that the 'warp scale' is exponential, so Warp 9.999995 might actually be significantly faster than 9.999994, but good luck communicating that in a clear and memorable way on broadcast TV. Good. The scale was made this way so writers would stop trying to one-up each other. "and they the ship flew away at WARP 36!" Zesty fucked around with this message at 00:37 on May 24, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 00:34
|
|
|
and then they went to warp 13 anyway
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 00:42
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:Was it just a fan theory that each whole-number warp factor was supposed to represent some sort of physical breakpoint? Yes
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 00:46
|
|
|
Gammatron 64 posted:Then in Voyager, they can technobabble their way out of all problems. They just need to invert the polarity and send a condensed tachyon pulse from the deflector dish and that'll solve the problem! No mention of vertarons, chronotons, quantums, subspace, isodynes, holomatrices, warp plasma, biomemetic gel, or engrams. 4/10, needs improvement.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 00:48
|
|
|
Warp Particles!
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 00:55
|
|
|
Zesty posted:Good. The scale was made this way so writers would stop trying to one-up each other. A problem better solved by an out of universe writer's guide, since it didn't stop them from trying to oneup each other, just made it stupider when they did.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 01:20
|
|
|
Tunicate posted:A problem better solved by an out of universe writer's guide, since it didn't stop them from trying to oneup each other, just made it stupider when they did. I assume they went to 9.9, 9.99, 9.999 etc.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 01:25
|
|
|
Actually, I think you'll find Warp 10 is when the acid you dropped finally kicks in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9pY4hNo3oI
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 01:40
|
|
|
Powered Descent posted:No one ever said it was a logarithm, just that the curve is drawn on a log scale. Here's a high-res re-creation of the graph from the old TNG tech manual: Now, see, I can respect that, in the sense of having the unenviable task of making such a weird metric fit a curve.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 01:42
|
|
|
Duckbag posted:I still think The Trial of Captain Janeway would have been the best possible ending. I'm a sucker for stories where adventurers have to explain their insane experiences to normal people and I think really digging into all the things that crew went through together could have been great and the perfect opportunity for a little earned emotion and real character development. When does Mulva come in to testify that Janeway still can't remember her real name.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 01:55
|
|
|
In one of the recent Voyager Relaunch books some of Voyager's Delta Quadrant adversaries put Janeway on trial
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 02:34
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:When does Mulva come in to testify that Janeway still can't remember her real name. It was me. I'm the one who liked the Seinfeld finale.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 02:37
|
|
|
The Bloop posted:That reason is because of all the science Trek doesn't even bother to try to get right, DNA is the worst offender by at least one significant warp figure Gammatron 64 posted:Branon Braga got a D- in Biology class, I use this episode and the one where Barclay turns into a spider as proof Lord Hydronium posted:Between Threshold, Genesis, The Chase, Dear Doctor, Distant Origin, and a few others I'm probably forgetting, I think the balance of evidence shows that evolution is deterministic in the Star Trek universe. No joke, Star Trek is 100% the reason I made a "Biology is Science Too!" panel for the sff convention I work. Jeb! Repetition posted:This will always be the Star Trek theme as far as I'm concerned: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjxNnqTcHhg God, I love that song. You don't want to know how many versions I have on my hard drive. Actually, even I don't know, just that it plays between my ears, whenever I close my eyes, forever...
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 03:10
|
|
|
Pinterest Mom posted:and then they went to warp 13 anyway Jeb! Repetition posted:I assume they went to 9.9, 9.99, 9.999 etc.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 03:32
|
|
|
Pieces of Peace posted:Actually, I think you'll find Warp 10 is when the acid you dropped finally kicks in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9pY4hNo3oI Fire the rogertroutman http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2j3ff_star-trek-le-rogertroutman_creation
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 04:03
|
|
|
CharlieWhiskey posted:Fire the rogertroutman ok I do like STIV's take that any of these warp-capable ships could go back in time if only their commanders had balls of steel.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 04:07
|
|
|
Wouldn't occupying every point in the universe simultaneously destroy all life instantly?
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 04:12
|
|
|
hiddenriverninja posted:Wouldn't occupying every point in the universe simultaneously destroy all life instantly? Which I assumed was illustrate how inane the idea of moving at warp 10 would be. It's a logarithm. Always approaching the line but you can't actually reach it.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 04:15
|
|
|
hiddenriverninja posted:Wouldn't occupying every point in the universe simultaneously destroy all life instantly? Only if you weren't also simultaneously not in those points. 
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 04:25
|
|
|
dont even fink about it posted:ok Star Trek 4 was referencing TOS Tomorrow is Yesterday and Assignment: Earth
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 06:41
|
|
|
Watching Conspiracy and Geordi laughing is the best thing that's happened in the series so far.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 06:49
|
|
|
Oh cool they're going to a planet with extreme day/night temperature difference like in Chronicles of Riddick.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 06:54
|
|
|
Jeb! Repetition posted:Oh cool they're going to a planet with extreme day/night temperature difference like in Chronicles of Riddick. ... nevermind.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 07:06
|
|
|
Jeb! Repetition posted:Anyway I watched Symbiosis and Skin of Evil. The heavy-handed 80s/90s anti-drug message in Symbiosis was nostalgic and there was a lot of stupid poo poo in the episode (like how at the end Picard says they'll never know what effect their actions would have even though they could come back and visit anytime). Skin of Evil, the one where Tasha Yar dies, was just bizarre. The way the villain was so evil yet so pitiable reminded me of Caliborn in a bad way. And they didn't seem sad enough at the funeral. Also she was just tossed aside like a rag doll when she was supposed to be this security expert, she really should have had a better death. We are so used to seeing grand, godlike villains in Trek, but Armus was just kind of a malevolent loser taking it out on everybody else. I liked that aspect of it. Similarly, most deaths in Trek (excluding redshirts) are heroic and meaningful; so Tasha's random and wasteful death also was a change of pace that I welcomed; more like the kind of poo poo that really happens to people with dangerous careers in the real world. As I recall, Roddenberry didn't think TNG-era humans (or at least a Starfleet crew) would fear death or have a "primitive" emotional reaction to it. I think that influenced the scene you are talking about.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 07:25
|
|
|
Wow the fistfight between Riker and the possessed admiral has genuinely some of the worst choreography I've ever seen. It's like a parody.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 07:27
|
|
|
what the gently caress
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 07:38
|
|
|
Jeb! Repetition posted:what the gently caress I love how everyone in this thread is going to know exactly what you're referring to, just from the context of knowing you're watching Conspiracy.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 07:40
|
|
|
Jeb! Repetition posted:what the gently caress Yep. Some really great Star Trek isn't it?
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 07:42
|
|
|
Jeb! Repetition posted:what the gently caress I've always wanted to know how much it took to bribe the censors
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 07:51
|
|
|
Big Mean Jerk posted:I've always wanted to know how much it took to bribe the censors I'm more curious how this whole episode didn't end up on the cutting room floor.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 08:08
|
|
|
The whole thing does read like a description of a lost WTF episode
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 08:13
|
|
|
Someone looks at the assembly and just starts screaming.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 08:17
|
|
|
hiddenriverninja posted:Wouldn't occupying every point in the universe simultaneously destroy all life instantly? Alright, that's bad. Important safety tip, thanks Egon.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 08:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 13:31 |
|
|
Big Mean Jerk posted:I've always wanted to know how much it took to bribe the censors The Unlife Aquatic posted:I'm more curious how this whole episode didn't end up on the cutting room floor. I suspect one of two things happened. Either they weren't expecting to last much longer so they went full out to see what would happen, or they knew that the syndication deal meant the money was in and would be contractually coming in for at least a couple years so they went full out to see what would happen. The result is we got a WTF episode that was more than likely the goriest thing seen on primetime television since Budd Dwyer a year and a half before.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 08:39
|
|