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ThomasPaine posted:See the silly thing is, I wonder if most of the people in the post-Soviet countries would, in the early 1990s, have been more than happy to remain united with one another. Obviously there were exceptions like in the Baltics, but the CIS always felt like a top down imposed thing to me for many. If you asked your average Ukrainian back then if they wanted independence, I'd be shocked if a majority said yes. Most of the USSR was against the breakup at the time, but a minority of nationalists were able to force through secession in all the chaos. Welcome to the desert of the real has some chapters about "communist nostalgia". There is no reason to doubt that the EU and NATO must be loving delighted to have a chance to bang the drum about scary imperialism, because the people who ask "why is every single material aspect of our lives worse than it was under the Soviet Union/Tito?" became the majority, among people old enough to remember those things, sometime before the gfc. The looming menace of lil' Vlad shields and empowers the post-soviet kleptocratic regimes in much the same way that the seemingly eternal threat of The Reds forced and maintained the post-war consensus in much of Europe.
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Feb 14, 2022 16:43
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JoylessJester posted:"Just come to the negotiating table stop being unreasonable.... no of course those old agreements don't count, lol" *Looks at the agreement that Russia won't invade Ukraine in the future if they give up their new nukes* Ahh yes, it's the west that's at fault here.
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Feb 14, 2022 16:50
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Comrade Fakename posted:Not watched the video, but this picture makes me laugh: His eyes are saying that he loves pegging. 
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Feb 14, 2022 16:50
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CommieGIR posted:I saw this on Twitter this AM. What the hell is this even about? "how dare you hold us accountable for our corruption"
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Feb 14, 2022 17:07
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Just Another Lurker posted:His eyes are saying that he loves pegging. They look like he might actually have started just as the photographer pressed the shutter release
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Feb 14, 2022 17:15
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ThomasPaine posted:See the silly thing is, I wonder if most of the people in the post-Soviet countries would, in the early 1990s, have been more than happy to remain united with one another. Obviously there were exceptions like in the Baltics, but the CIS always felt like a top down imposed thing to me for many. If you asked your average Ukrainian back then if they wanted independence, I'd be shocked if a majority said yes. Most of the USSR was against the breakup at the time, but a minority of nationalists were able to force through secession in all the chaos. I'd be willing to hear from someone with opinion polling to the contrary, but given Ukraine's history within the USSR has seen multiple forced famines and mass killings to try and pacify the region I would be very surprised to hear if many people living there had a great opinion on the Moscow government during the breakup.
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Feb 14, 2022 17:19
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Julio Cruz posted:"how dare you hold us accountable for our corruption" Ah, so the usual cop stuff.
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Feb 14, 2022 17:24
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If they're going to play "and the mayor doesn't even have the confidence of the police" then they should ideally make sure that the police aren't less popular than the mayor first.
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Feb 14, 2022 17:32
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Bug Squash posted:I'd be willing to hear from someone with opinion polling to the contrary, but given Ukraine's history within the USSR has seen multiple forced famines and mass killings to try and pacify the region I would be very surprised to hear if many people living there had a great opinion on the Moscow government during the breakup. Eh, even if we don't dispute that overall point, the late 1980s/early 1990s were a very different ball game to the Stalinist era, and by that time Kiev had become one of the USSR's largest and most prosperous cities, Ukraine certainly wasn't some hard done by backwater.
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Feb 14, 2022 17:32
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Just Another Lurker posted:His eyes are saying that he loves pegging. That's it Rishy, take the piss. Take it, Rishy. All of the piss Rishy. There's a good little boy
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Feb 14, 2022 17:49
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jiggerypokery posted:That's it Rishy, take the piss. Take it, Rishy. All of the piss Rishy. There's a good little boy and to think I got probed for my Boris Johnson piss pig fanfic
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Feb 14, 2022 18:02
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ThomasPaine posted:and to think I got probed for my Boris Johnson piss pig fanfic The difference being that my story is an extrapolation based of a quote from an article that I haven't read, that someone posted on twitter (a site I do not use) on to a comedy forum. I then took that quote entirely out of context, made a wild accusation and set the scene through means of an evocative yet conspicuously unattributed quote. Ergo, my previous post is quintessential high-caliber British journalism in 2022 and I stand by it
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Feb 14, 2022 18:16
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The only thing I have to offer to the Russia / Ukraine chat is my Ukrainian colleague’s insights. He says that generally the mood is upbeat. At a national level most people seem to think it’s the usual sabre rattling and they’re unconcerned. They do not believe an invasion will take place. He says he has some friends who have moved west from Kyev. Others are unbothered. Anecdotes don’t equal evidence, I guess, but they’re closer to it all than I/we are.
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Feb 14, 2022 18:29
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Camilla, 74, tests positive for corona https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60377261 Hilarious if the next ones in line die of covid but Queen Lich keeps on kicking
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Feb 14, 2022 18:33
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https://twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1493159703685312514
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Feb 14, 2022 18:38
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If Russia does move on Ukraine, which I'm not at all convinced they're actually going to do, I would be very surprised if it involved an actual, full scale military invasion. Much more likely we'd see similar stuff to what we did in Crimea. Moscow will support separatist paramilitaries then send a few troops in to 'maintain the peace' while they stage a few dodgy referendums to legitimise the annexation of certain areas along the border. I very much doubt Kiev itself is under any real threat.Nenonen posted:Camilla, 74, tests positive for corona Comedy option is Charles and William both somehow die leaving Harry the next in line to the throne. Imagine the scenes.
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Feb 14, 2022 18:39
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I get the feeling that half the point of invading Ukraine would be to create a massive crippling refugee crisis around Europe, regardless of what Russia actually wants out of Ukraine itself
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Feb 14, 2022 18:42
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Racking up some lines of fentanyl for a snort inducing read https://twitter.com/aarjanistan/status/1492933154788810753 ThomasPaine posted:Comedy option is Charles and William both somehow die leaving Harry the next in line to the throne. Imagine the scenes.
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Feb 14, 2022 18:44
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ThomasPaine posted:If Russia does move on Ukraine, which I'm not at all convinced they're actually going to do, I would be very surprised if it involved an actual, full scale military invasion. Much more likely we'd see similar stuff to what we did in Crimea. Moscow will support separatist paramilitaries then send a few troops in to 'maintain the peace' while they stage a few dodgy referendums to legitimise the annexation of certain areas along the border. I very much doubt Kiev itself is under any real threat. Sadly I think all of William's kids have to die too. PLEASE NOTE MI5 I AM NOT SUGGESTING ANYONE SHOULD
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Feb 14, 2022 18:44
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ThomasPaine posted:Comedy option is Charles and William both somehow die leaving Harry the next in line to the throne. Imagine the scenes. Uhhhh George, Charlotte, Louis, Harry
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Feb 14, 2022 18:46
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Ahh, I'd misremembered the succession rules. Yeah, I think sons of the first born do take precedence over the second born. You'd think I'd remember that given my frankly depressing number of hours on Crusader Kings. e: Actually, iirc they changed the rules to be gender-equal now too, so a first born daughter takes precedence even if she has brothers.
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Feb 14, 2022 18:48
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Marmaduke! posted:I get the feeling that half the point of invading Ukraine would be to create a massive crippling refugee crisis around Europe, regardless of what Russia actually wants out of Ukraine itself It would be badly mishandled by Biden and massively boost trumps reelection chances too. More importantly... if 9/11 was the tipping point, an undeterred Ukraine invasion would mark the definitive end of the US as the dominant superpower.
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Feb 14, 2022 18:50
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Rustybear posted:it's not the same but good luck with your googling! Well I couldn't find anything about operation orbital more recent than a 2019 announcement that it was being extended to 2023. Can we cut the rest of this stupid google-fu dance and just get to the bit where you show us what you're talking about?
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Feb 14, 2022 18:53
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ThomasPaine posted:If Russia does move on Ukraine, which I'm not at all convinced they're actually going to do, I would be very surprised if it involved an actual, full scale military invasion. Much more likely we'd see similar stuff to what we did in Crimea. Moscow will support separatist paramilitaries then send a few troops in to 'maintain the peace' while they stage a few dodgy referendums to legitimise the annexation of certain areas along the border. I very much doubt Kiev itself is under any real threat. harry: "oh for gently caress's sake" wonder if he'd serve as regent, though
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Feb 14, 2022 19:00
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Rust Martialis posted:Uhhhh George, Charlotte, Louis, Harry Everyone gets into a massive car accident on the way to the funeral; Andrew is the only one left in the succession.
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Feb 14, 2022 19:06
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Nenonen posted:Everyone gets into a massive car accident on the way to the funeral; Andrew is the only one left in the succession. He's 9th so if it's getting to him, I'll drop a fiver on #11: 11. Miss Sienna Mapelli Mozzi
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Feb 14, 2022 19:10
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Cookie Cutter posted:A conversation was had. Whether that was binding or not is subject to debate. But either way the expansion itself did happen and massively outweighs any accusation of "expansion" that can be aimed at Russia. The funny part is that the 'conversation' actually concluded that NATO membership can, in fact, be offered to nations east of Germany. Also, Russia promised not to invade its neighbors or gently caress with their sovereignty, and also promised not to demand anyone being kept out of NATO. So you know, if we're talking about promises. This is even before we get to the most recent of these 'promises' being from the 90s. You know, 25 years ago.
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Feb 14, 2022 19:23
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https://twitter.com/christhebarker/status/1493152593090162690
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Feb 14, 2022 19:26
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https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1493267666089525250 I'm guessing this already got posted but what the gently caress? At a time when everyone is leaning more and more towards decriminalisation after the failed War on Drugs these cunts want a Weed Offender's register? Petty wee dicks trying to out Tory the Tories.
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Feb 14, 2022 19:30
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Ended up reading the Wikipedia article about the Azov Battallion. It's fun. "In 2014, a spokesman for the regiment said around 10–20% of the unit were neo-Nazis." There's also a good line that in September '14 they were merged into the National Guard & "worked to de-politicise itself", followed by multiple examples of it being less than apolitical. "took part in a march...organised by the Right Sector", "Beginning in 2015, Azov has organised summer camps where children and teenagers receive combat training mixed with lectures on Ukrainian nationalism". And seemingly they have quite a few fash from across Europe among their number, including at least 1 Englishmen. And sure, their logo looks an awful lot like the Wolfsangel used by, among other divisions, the notorious SS 2nd Panzer Division Das Reich, who massacred civilians pretty much wherever they went from France to Russia, but just a coincidence, it means Ідея Нації, because you see, in Old Ukrainian, before Peter The Great, N was replaced by Н for the n sound. And the less said about the founder Biletsky's attitudes to minorities in Ukraine the better (Jews, Romanians in Bukovina & Bessarbia, presumably Russians throughout the country, Bulgarians mainly in Budjak, Slovaks & Hungarians in the Carpathians). We sure know how to pick allies.
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Feb 14, 2022 19:30
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Kchama posted:The funny part is that the 'conversation' actually concluded that NATO membership can, in fact, be offered to nations east of Germany. Also, Russia promised not to invade its neighbors or gently caress with their sovereignty, and also promised not to demand anyone being kept out of NATO. So you know, if we're talking about promises. This would be much more compelling if it wasn't for the fact that the last time Ukraine elected a government that wasn't that fond of nato or the EU, a well armed colour revolution overthrew it, imprisoned everyone, and banned pro-russian parties. But 2013 is, you know, a lot of years ago
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Feb 14, 2022 19:31
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I don't think there are any good sides on this. It's not the Soviet Union Vs The Fascists, it's two different tribes of fascists trying to wrest control of Ukraine from each other with Neo-Nazis on both sides.
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Feb 14, 2022 19:34
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Gonzo McFee posted:I don't think there are any good sides on this. It's not the Soviet Union Vs The Fascists, it's two different tribes of fascists trying to wrest control of Ukraine from each other with Neo-Nazis on both sides. I mean yeah. It kind of goes without saying that Putin's Russia is bad. I remember when the conflict in Don-Bas was going on more actively there was an MMA company that would put on fights for free on Youtube (IIRC) & it was at about 5pm UK time so it was just great low level violence to watch, Oplot Challenge. And then it came out that they were full on fighting for the Don-Bas separatists & the UFC fighter Oleksy Oleinik got banned from entering Ukraine because he had links to them, the promoter was offering to square go anyone at the Maidan protests, just ultra-nationalist cunts all the way down.
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Feb 14, 2022 19:41
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Gonzo McFee posted:I don't think there are any good sides on this. It's not the Soviet Union Vs The Fascists, it's two different tribes of fascists trying to wrest control of Ukraine from each other with Neo-Nazis on both sides. If one of the aims of NATO was denazification, which it obviously isn't lol
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Feb 14, 2022 19:44
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Gonzo McFee posted:I don't think there are any good sides on this. It's not the Soviet Union Vs The Fascists, it's two different tribes of fascists trying to wrest control of Ukraine from each other with Neo-Nazis on both sides.
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Feb 14, 2022 19:48
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Dabir posted:Well I couldn't find anything about operation orbital more recent than a 2019 announcement that it was being extended to 2023. Can we cut the rest of this stupid google-fu dance and just get to the bit where you show us what you're talking about? why? so you can google search some counter-arguments? also who's the 'us' here, not sure anyone else wants to die on the 'they may be neo-nazis but by god they're our neo-nazis' hill with you
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Feb 14, 2022 19:54
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Pablo Bluth posted:I'd suggest that supporting the Pro Europe/EU fraction of Ukraine's political spectrum would be a start to the long road of defacistising Ukraine, except Hungary. That is literally what started the loving conflict
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Feb 14, 2022 19:55
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Turns out there's a fair few Nazis who love the White Countries Only club
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Feb 14, 2022 19:58
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Rustybear posted:why? so you can google search some counter-arguments? If you don't actually have a source it's ok to say so. I did.
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Feb 14, 2022 19:58
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I propose arming Nazi groups by giving them one bullet at a time, delivered at muzzle velocity.
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Feb 14, 2022 19:59
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