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My DS9 watchlist would actually be the pilot, Past Prologue (because Garak is the best), Duet (just a really really solid episode), and In the Hands of the Prophets (Winn and Bareil's intro episode). This skips the introductory episodes for a few of the recurring side characters (Nog, Rom, the Nagus) but the episodes they first appear in all suck so
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Aug 11, 2017 20:42
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Nebakenezzer posted:Yeah, when I watched TOS I realized that they had like six basic plots that they recycled and mix'd n' matched. Remembering that early TNG is pretty lovely, but compared to TV at the time it was pretty good, I can't help but wonder if TOS was pretty good compared to other 60s programs. With TAS, all they did was ask several TOS writers to basically do sequels or rewrite TOS episodes they themselves did before; David Gerrold and DC Fontana basically did this exact thing for More Tribbles, More Troubles and Yesteryear. Samuel A. Peeples wrote both the first episode of TOS (Where No Man Has Gone Before) and the first episode of the animated series (Beyond The Farthest Star) Speaking as a  from what I remember of Trek in its day, most people just thought LOL, it was considered barely better than Lost In Space what with Dr. Smith and Monster of the Week, but it didn't get much more respect. Most people liked LIS better because of its formula blandness and the guaranteed 'Oh the pain' every episode which was easier to understand than the highbrow scifi drama Trek presented.
Binary Badger fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 20:46
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Captive Pursuit is a good season 1 episode. Defines O'Brien's character in the show really well
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Aug 11, 2017 20:46
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Low Desert Punk posted:Captive Pursuit is a good season 1 episode. Defines O'Brien's character in the show really well Yeah, it's good.
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Aug 11, 2017 20:49
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As far as pacing, another thing to consider is that hour long shows were almost 10 minutes longer back then than they are now.
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Aug 11, 2017 20:49
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Mollari!
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Aug 11, 2017 20:51
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The_Doctor posted:Mollari! Oh, ohh!
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Aug 11, 2017 20:54
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Grand Fromage posted:Next I'm on to The Animated Series, which I have never seen anything of beyond gifs. I am aware at some point Spock becomes a wizard and summons literal Satan or something? I'm looking forward to it, what I've heard sounds like they just did a shitload of peyote and shat out the cheapest cartoon they could think of.
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Aug 11, 2017 20:57
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:TOS gets a bad rap these days because it's judged it from a 2017 perspective, and not a 1966 perspective. A thousand times, this. I unironically enjoy TOS Star Trek (and Space: 1999 and Battlestar Galactica which are five hundred times schlockier) because I am able to watch them through the 1970s eyes I watched them through the first time. Cherished childhood pre-cable, pre-VCR memory: being allowed to ride my 3-speed bike alone to the local library because they had a one-night viewing of a super-8 print of "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield." It was loving amazing.
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Aug 11, 2017 20:59
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I can't imagine watching TOS and not at least enjoying it for the 60's set and costume design. It looks unironically amazing in a kitsch way. Even the mediocre episodes can be enjoyed on mute (don't do that though because the musical stings are fantastic as well). Maybe it's just because I grew up on a steady diet of 50s-80s tv even though I was born in 90.
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Aug 11, 2017 21:03
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Skimming through episode descriptions on Memory Alpha, I'd say there are 6 "essential" DS9 season 1 episodes (although the first one, of course, is double-length):
I don't remember exactly how good each of these episodes are, but none of them are awkward TNG-lite alien/planet of the week stuff. Except "Progress", but that subverts the trope wonderfully.
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Aug 11, 2017 21:05
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shadok posted:A thousand times, this. I unironically enjoy TOS Star Trek (and Space: 1999 and Battlestar Galactica which are five hundred times schlockier) because I am able to watch them through the 1970s eyes I watched them through the first time. That does sound loving amazing
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Aug 11, 2017 21:17
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I know it's pointless to imagine, but I'd like to see what a JJTrek Data would look like.
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Aug 11, 2017 21:26
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His eyes would be sources of lens flares.
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Aug 11, 2017 21:27
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:His eyes would be sources of lens flares. He's gooddamn space lich
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Aug 11, 2017 21:31
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I think a lot of my love for TOS comes from watching old movies and tv shows with my dad when I was growing up. It brings back a lot of nostalgia e: also when TOS is good, it's amazing. Like that episode with the two planets that simulate a war and just execute people. That was dope and one of my favorite episodes of any tv show ever. But that's also kind of its problem. TOS swings between stellar and poo poo (although I like poo poo too) that I can see why modern audiences wouldn't enjoy it as much Sir Lemming posted:Skimming through episode descriptions on Memory Alpha, I'd say there are 6 "essential" DS9 season 1 episodes (although the first one, of course, is double-length): I will do this. vermin posted:I know it's pointless to imagine, but I'd like to see what a JJTrek Data would look like. Gonna just be a regular white human who is kinda good at computers and he'll stare into the camera when he reveals his identity 3 DONG HORSE fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 21:41
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Don't skip anything. Watch everything, suffer through the bad episodes and the highs are even higher. Experience Bij. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrhvtyGgli4
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Aug 11, 2017 21:45
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3 DONG HORSE posted:I will do this. Starting from season two, you have a skip list rather than a watch list. It depends where your threshold for mediocre episodes lies, but Melora is the main episode in season two everyone will agree to skip
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Aug 11, 2017 21:48
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you're all cowards
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Aug 11, 2017 21:50
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vermin posted:I know it's pointless to imagine, but I'd like to see what a JJTrek Data would look like. Here's 0718. 
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Aug 11, 2017 21:51
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Nebakenezzer posted:I can't help but wonder if TOS was pretty good compared to other 60s programs. Sure, the most popular TV shows in the 1960s were things like The Beverly Hillbillies and Petticoat Junction.
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Aug 11, 2017 21:53
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The_Doctor posted:Here's 0718. Oh jesus christ those barcode scanners. What the hell is this I don't remember this scene
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Aug 11, 2017 21:54
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I wonder how long they're going to resist the urge to do a TNG film series reboot I don't care either way, I don't mind JJTrek and I don't really like TNG, but I feel like that's a decent amount of money to be made
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Aug 11, 2017 21:56
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Low Desert Punk posted:I wonder how long they're going to resist the urge to do a TNG film series reboot
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Aug 11, 2017 21:57
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The_Doctor posted:Here's 0718. As much as I enjoy Into Darkness, that guy is part of the loving worst dialogue in the entire reboot series: Kirk: "Where's the damage?"  "MAJOR HULL DAMAGE CAPTAIN"Um, no poo poo? My loving cup runneth over.
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Aug 11, 2017 21:58
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The Bloop posted:Forever, I'd wager They are going to drain the TOS era well dry until it flops like Enterprise and then try again in 10-15 years.
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Aug 11, 2017 21:59
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I done made an Orville thread!
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Aug 11, 2017 22:47
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I don't think you can just chalk TOS's pacing problems up to the era. I recall Bonanza having pretty good pacing for the 50 minute format. TOS has The Alternative Factor which is just repeated beats: the script.
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Aug 11, 2017 22:49
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Tighclops posted:Don't skip anything. Watch everything, suffer through the bad episodes and the highs are even higher. Experience Bij. Back in my day, you turned on the TV and you watched it. You didn't get to worry about if it was good or bad. That came for later. But you watched them all. Because you had to. Builds character. Sometimes you even watched shows that weren't that good because you had to. You told yourself they weren't that bad. Like SeaQuest. Don't go watch it now, if you liked it then.
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Aug 11, 2017 23:04
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Well it definitely looks better than Discovery. Still gonna wait until I hear other people's opinions before I think of watching it though.
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Aug 11, 2017 23:13
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cenotaph posted:TOS has The Alternative Factor which is just repeated beats: the script. According to George Takei, when Alternative Factor started filming, John Drew Barrymore showed up on set in the AM but after lunchtime he had disappeared; evidently he looked around the set and said, 'gently caress this poo poo;' a search was done high and low but he couldn't be found anywhere. When he didn't show up the next day, someone from the studio had to be dispatched to see Robert Brown and he was literally dragged away from his house to start filming immediately after he agreed to take the part. Takei then says Alternative Factor was shot in a 'whirlwind' manner and Robert had noted that everything was extremely tense during shooting. This episode literally almost didn't get made, it was rushed along as fast as possible, so that's a big factor in it not being one of the better TOS episodes. Binary Badger fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 23:34
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Nebakenezzer posted:I can't help but wonder if TOS was pretty good compared to other 60s programs. It was competing against total poo poo, yea, it was revolutionary.
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Aug 11, 2017 23:40
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3 DONG HORSE posted:Thanks for the advice, dudes. I'll finish the pilot, watch Duet and hit Season 2 for now. I also didn't realize it had more in common with TOS so that is very encouraging. I liked TNG a lot but it felt less.."deep" than TOS, although there are some amazing seasons and episodes. Actually, if you're that much of a TOS fan, try Move Along Home. It's the most controversial DS9 episode, since there's a lot of debate about how awful it is. However, it is awful in a very specifically TOS way and would be a fan favorite if it actually was a TOS episode. But under no circumstances watch Melora or Muse.
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Aug 11, 2017 23:41
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You are clearly forgetting about Meridian.
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Aug 11, 2017 23:45
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Alternative Factor is a total shitstain, it's one of the least competent episodes of any tv show I can think of. I occasionally watch it just to laugh at how terrible it is. In addition to the problems that stemmed from Barrymore drinking his way right out of an episode, a career, and eventually a life, there was also to have been a romance subplot between his character and Lt Masters, which got nixed by executives because Masters was black. So they filled in the space with yet more scenes where the camera waggles around on a star field while Lazarus beats himself up. It's worth noting that this could totally just happen in TOS' production, that they would absolutely let obviously half baked garbage air just because gently caress it, we've got the timeslot, cut something together and sell toothpaste with it. Just try and imagine that happening with a genre show today, or even in the 80s/90s when the spinoff shows were in their heyday and you can see why TOS eventually cratered. For all that, it's still the best show, it has the highest proportion of genuinely great episodes and most of the bad ones are at least amusing on some level or have something memorable about them. WampaLord posted:It was competing against total poo poo, yea, it was revolutionary. This is a little bit unfair, yeah tv in the 60s (especially genre tv) was at least 99% crap but the same is true today. And it's the decade that gave us Dark Shadows and The Prisoner after all.
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Aug 11, 2017 23:51
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Meridian, Melora, and The Muse. The 3 awful Ms of DS9.
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Aug 11, 2017 23:55
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The_Doctor posted:Meridian, Melora, and The Muse. The 3 awful Ms of DS9. Mprofit and Lace
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Aug 12, 2017 00:07
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skasion posted:This is a little bit unfair, yeah tv in the 60s (especially genre tv) was at least 99% crap but the same is true today. And it's the decade that gave us Dark Shadows and The Prisoner after all. Yea but when you only got 3 channels, 99% of content being crap is a major issue. Now we got enough output that there's a lot of that 1%.
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Aug 12, 2017 00:15
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cenotaph posted:I don't think you can just chalk TOS's pacing problems up to the era. I recall Bonanza having pretty good pacing for the 50 minute format. TOS has The Alternative Factor which is just repeated beats: the script. The Alternative Factor is one of the absolute worst episodes in TOS, and if we're gonna go all "oh how amazing that such a wondrous show as TNG could spring forth from such turds" then let's not forget that TNG had lovely episodes too, like Code of Honor or Shades of Gray or Dark Page. TOS is a very theatrical show and I think in order to like it you really have to relish bombast and actors playing to the back of the theater. If that doesn't do it for you than TOS probably won't be as compelling a watch (and also, honestly, if you don't like overacting at all I think space opera might not be the right genre for you).
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Aug 12, 2017 01:03
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Yeah, my theater bro I watched 'Space Seed' with said that TOS episodes reminded him of two-act plays more than typical TV.
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Aug 12, 2017 01:40
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