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redleader posted:pfft, all you ivory tower types with your highfalutin "oo design" this unironically
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 12:23 |
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# ? May 26, 2024 13:13 |
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i agree with this guy. java is bad. he's clearly advocating for idiomatic javascript at the end which is a much better language for large programs.
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 12:52 |
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leftpad() syscall, anyone? anyone? https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/3/31/1109code:
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 14:21 |
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akadajet posted:i agree with this guy. java is bad. he's clearly advocating for idiomatic javascript at the end which is a much better language for large programs. his description of how perfect encapsulation would theoretically work is basically a description of how elm actually works irl
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 14:35 |
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redleader posted:pfft, all you ivory tower types with your highfalutin "oo design" the weirdest thing about oop is how many people think it's the only possible way to organize code.
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 15:20 |
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redleader posted:just vomit code into your editor until a few cursory manual tests look alright, then throw that poo poo up to production
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 15:23 |
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all this react/redux/webpack talk got me thinking. where do i start if i want to make my webpages not look like an engineer made them? "but it's functional, what more do you need?" *entire page is enclosed in <ul> tag and just depends on list wraparound to have any vertical placement* also: "lol, what's css?"
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 15:31 |
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work with an actual designer. if you have to ask you're in over your head
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 15:34 |
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TEX2page
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 15:35 |
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don't try and design in CSS. do it in a real design app because you can always tell. if you can't use a real design app because you can't do design, you're not gonna be able to escape your stuff looking like a dev did it unfortunately. it's two separate modes of thinking.
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 15:38 |
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Finster Dexter posted:nah, there's some pretty useful design patterns. design patterns are really just trying to get around the limitations of oop. no first class functions? use the Strategy Pattern™
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 15:49 |
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Maluco Marinero posted:don't try and design in CSS. do it in a real design app because you can always tell. if you can't use a real design app because you can't do design, you're not gonna be able to escape your stuff looking like a dev did it unfortunately. it's two separate modes of thinking. unrelated: how's a way i can manually allow or deny POST requests going through my browser (after reviewing them)?
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 16:00 |
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HoboMan posted:i guess then my question boils down to what's a good design app? Eventually they move to Photoshop or some equivalent with a possible grid guideline in there (if they're doing responsive -- and they do more and more), and just go to town on it. There's some web-made apps that allow this right now with a bit more hand-holding, but I forget the names. I'd have to ask around to know. Then you take the design, figure out how to build the underlying HTML+CSS to make it work and reflow fine, and then you just slice it off (still in photoshop) to get individual assets, and integrate the thing with a good ol' editor.
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 16:07 |
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I just use jeckyl for my personal site
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 16:14 |
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MononcQc posted:Designers I know may usually start with a paper draft regarding placement of main elements and stuff like that. *black-and-white montage of designer doing this workflow with them breaking their pencil, dropping their mouse, etc.* "there's got to be a better way!" come on guys, i know there exists stuff to fill in the gap between just throwing up raw bespoke html and hiring an experienced professional graphic designer
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 16:20 |
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you could probably get MS front page 2008 to run in a vm
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 16:22 |
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HoboMan posted:*black-and-white montage of designer doing this workflow with them breaking their pencil, dropping their mouse, etc.* "there's got to be a better way!" what kind of content are you looking to do? if its a technical document, you can get a nice website out of docbook. there is a free for commercial version of xmlmind editor that includes a nice css file that you can modify with your own colors. checkout the freebsd docs for an example of what a docbook generated site looks like.
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 16:23 |
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HoboMan posted:*black-and-white montage of designer doing this workflow with them breaking their pencil, dropping their mouse, etc.* "there's got to be a better way!" lol no, there's no reasonable middle ground between "use actual design tools to make an actual design", and "just throw up whatever". if you're going to spend literally any effort beyond throwing up whatever, the easiest and best option is to just do it right. you don't have to hire a professional graphic designer, you just need to follow a sensible design process (you know, the way a professional graphic designer would do it).
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 16:27 |
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HoboMan posted:all this react/redux/webpack talk got me thinking. where do i start if i want to make my webpages not look like an engineer made them? More important than the look of it is how it feels to use. Put yourself in the shoes of a user and think about it in their perspective. What requires familiarity with it to use. What is inconsistent. What is your eye immediately attracted to and is that thing important enough to deserve that. Are different items clearly visibly separated and related items visually related. And just take bootstrap or foundation or whatever and use those for basic styling since those look good enough and will be better than most internal things that don't have a real designer behind them
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 16:29 |
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man gently caress april fools day, even though this is implemented
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 16:31 |
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HoboMan posted:*black-and-white montage of designer doing this workflow with them breaking their pencil, dropping their mouse, etc.* "there's got to be a better way!" developers can use frameworks so their backends all work the same and end up having the exact same structure. That's a thing you don't want in design since that sounds like plagiarizing. You still want a uniform user experience though, which means common elements (hamburger menus, fonts practices and so on, pretty much all of UX as a field) and their work is far more similar to 'knowing best practices' and 'design patterns' than 'plug in a library' or 'use a framework'. So there's a whole lot of process, practice, and knowledge into it. If you really want to take a shortcut, you can go look at template websites and buy one of them. They're usually fairly cheap and will undercut a lot of web designers if you had to have a custom job.
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 16:32 |
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HappyHippo posted:the weirdest thing about oop is how many people think it's the only possible way to organize code. HappyHippo posted:design patterns are really just trying to get around the limitations of oop. no first class functions? use the Strategy Pattern™ You are in the right place, friend.
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 16:33 |
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MononcQc posted:That's a thing you don't want in design since that sounds like plagiarizing. *reuses same 2 row 1 column/3 column grid for every web site since 2012*
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 16:34 |
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Finster Dexter posted:You are in the right place, friend. yeah its actually the visitor pattern
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 16:35 |
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MononcQc posted:developers can use frameworks so their backends all work the same and end up having the exact same structure. That's a thing you don't want in design since that sounds like plagiarizing. You still want a uniform user experience though, which means common elements (hamburger menus, fonts practices and so on, pretty much all of UX as a field) and their work is far more similar to 'knowing best practices' and 'design patterns' than 'plug in a library' or 'use a framework'. is that why people hate bootstrap? as a developer it makes designing poo poo that doesn't look terrible easy as hell and I don't really care if it looks like everything else.
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 16:36 |
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Share Bear posted:*reuses same 2 row 1 column/3 column grid for every web site since 2012* There's a difference between page structure and the rest of design too. You know how you can tell all bootstrap websites are bootstrap websites? That's the thing you want to avoid usually.
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 16:36 |
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MononcQc posted:developers can use frameworks so their backends all work the same and end up having the exact same structure. That's a thing you don't want in design since that sounds like plagiarizing. You still want a uniform user experience though, which means common elements (hamburger menus, fonts practices and so on, pretty much all of UX as a field) and their work is far more similar to 'knowing best practices' and 'design patterns' than 'plug in a library' or 'use a framework'. I think Bootstrap is p good. I suck at design but with Bootstrap I can still make forms and stuff that don't look like caveman drawings. It can get you really far without getting too bogged down in "process". e:^^ lol why? if it's an admin interface or internal site, who cares. But maybe HoboMan is asking about customer-facing stuff. I didn't think so, though. ee: gently caress why did I write backbone... got bad jarvascript frameworks on the brain Finster Dexter fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Apr 1, 2016 |
# ? Apr 1, 2016 16:37 |
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I'd much rather have a thing that looks like all the other things and is easy to navigate than a thing that looks unique but sucks to use. all of those 3 column sites suck because of that garbage infinite scrolling poo poo. that specific design is garbage because its garbage, and not because everyone uses it.
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 16:38 |
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gonadic io posted:yeah its actually the visitor pattern aren't they both trivial with first class functions?
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 16:39 |
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the other thing about bootstrap is you can start with something that works in terms of responsive design and then gently caress w/ the styling for ~MY BRAND~ after.
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 16:39 |
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i don't give a poo poo about ~providing a memorable and professional user experience~ i just want something that looks like it was made this century. we don't have a designer and poo poo looking like a my first html tutorial on the page makes dumb managers think i'm terrible at my job. (i am, but for different reasons) also i like my poo poo to not look like poo poo.
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 16:54 |
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use bootstrap
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 16:56 |
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To designers, this discussion is the equivalent of people going "I don't know what's the big deal, I just install wordpress/joomla (and then never upgrade it) and there's no problem" when the opposite takes place. It's kind of great because everyone dismisses the other side's expertise for the sake of "I don't care, I got the thing I wanted" while the other side looks in terror.
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 16:58 |
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visitor pattern is obsoleted by pattern matching. strategy is first class functions (though less boilerplate reduction compared to visitor IMO)
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 17:01 |
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i type the code and then the thing happen and then i am given money. its a very nice pattern.
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 17:15 |
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MononcQc posted:To designers, this discussion is the equivalent of people going "I don't know what's the big deal, I just install wordpress/joomla (and then never upgrade it) and there's no problem" when the opposite takes place. i'm sorry you got an arts degree
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 17:16 |
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:i type the code and then the thing happen and then i am given money. its a very nice pattern.
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 17:16 |
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HoboMan posted:i'm sorry you got an arts degree lmao
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 17:20 |
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FamDav posted:visitor pattern is obsoleted by pattern matching. strategy is first class functions (though less boilerplate reduction compared to visitor IMO) i look up these design patterns on wikipedia and they make my head go
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 17:27 |
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# ? May 26, 2024 13:13 |
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im too stupid to use java i think
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 17:28 |