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Herbotron posted:What I understood from that scene was that Acheron did a big aoe anime attack temporarily destroying the contents of the dream but I'd bet it didn't effect the dream itself. The actual purpose of the attack was to stimulate the survival instincts of the dreamers to temporarily override their desire for escapism. If she could just destroy the dream itself she wouldn't need the galaxy rangers to disrupt the consensus of the dreamers. Sorry, I meant to say Ena's Dream. My understanding of it is that everyone in the Dreamscape was basically inceptioned into dreaming within the dream. Once people broke out of it you're back in the Dreamscape in front of Sunday again.
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May 10, 2024 22:13
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Clarste posted:That's really, really dumb. Apparently they're spelled exactly the same way in Chinese (西塞尔), but I'll admit its not the strongest argument. Some other points are the poem can be found at the start of 2.2, well before the boss fight the 6th and 7th verses describe, so the author knows what's going to happen in the future; the author talks about Sunday finding and achieving his truest dreams with them, which lines up with how Elio generally recruits people; the poem is a reference to a poem by Edgar Allan Poe, who wrote a short story called "The Black Cat". I don't think it's the strongest theory, but I do think it's an interesting one.
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May 10, 2024 22:28
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Herbotron posted:What I understood from that scene was that Acheron did a big aoe anime attack temporarily destroying the contents of the dream but I'd bet it didn't effect the dream itself. The actual purpose of the attack was to stimulate the survival instincts of the dreamers to temporarily override their desire for escapism. If she could just destroy the dream itself she wouldn't need the galaxy rangers to disrupt the consensus of the dreamers. I think her slash did affect the dream in much the same way she left a scar in the sky fighting Aventurine but yeah at the end like you say I think that attack was just to create a real threat to the dreamers and show that when pushed the 'weak' have the will and natural instinct to try and save themselves without needing a benovelent God King to do that for them like Sunday thinks.
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May 10, 2024 22:37
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CandyCrazy posted:the poem is a reference to a poem by Edgar Allan Poe, who wrote a short story called "The Black Cat". this is the goofiest leap, when the poem itself is an edited version of The Raven, and ravens already tie into both the Dream Master and the Biblical Flood stuff going on. making the jump to an entirely different piece of his work is pretty forced..
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May 10, 2024 22:40
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I think her slash did affect the dream in much the same way she left a scar in the sky fighting Aventurine but yeah at the end like you say I think that attack was just to create a real threat to the dreamers and show that when pushed the 'weak' have the will and natural instinct to try and save themselves without needing a benovelent God King to do that for them like Sunday thinks. She was just trying to scare them, basically. Make them think the dream wasn't a safe place, so they would instinctively want to wake up.
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May 10, 2024 22:44
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I'm glad this patch has allowed me to correct my past, grave mistake of not treating Firefly to a feast
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May 10, 2024 22:56
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Oh my god I did the movie event and only at the very (classic) end did I realize who Boss Stone is the entire time. Truly I have been Clockie'd.
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May 11, 2024 00:14
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GoodluckJonathan posted:*What is UP with all the Roman Catholic stuff in Sunday's backstory? The confessional scene(I was raised catholic and this literally gave me flashbacks), the relationship between the merchant in the confessional and Sunday was quite reminiscent of the concept of indulgences, the Latin song names, the idea of a dead god coming back to life(not specific to catholicism but it's there), the strong emphasis on faith giving one strength, Sunday's assertion that people cannot save themselves and can only be saved by a god, his loving name lol, Sunday as a christ figure sacrificing himself to save everyone else(from his perspective) For this one, Ena has powerful Abrahamic God coding, this all knowing divine being who Has A Plan that is mysterious and unknowable, but will lead everyone to prosperity. The problem being, Ena had no follow through. When a civilization arrived at its 'intended target' THEY would lose interest and move onto the next civilization, and the abandoned civilization would implode because it no longer had an Aeon doing central planning.
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May 11, 2024 00:55
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For some of the discussion Gopher Wood is long since physically dead. He lives on as a memetic identity that exists within his family's minds/dreams. He ultimately might never come back because of how the stuff went down between him and Sunday.
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May 11, 2024 01:17
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i hope they don't make boss is big person with second wind heroic turnaround theme a routine because it still isn't as hype as wildfire and it's just gonna get lame
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May 11, 2024 04:04
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Wrapped up 2.2 today, really enjoyed it although it's a little weird they gave us the big confrontation and Echo of War boss when the plot isn't actually done yet. Hatblazer seems fun and I'm probably gonna work on getting a team together for Firefly next patch.
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May 11, 2024 04:07
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Gamerofthegame posted:i hope they don't make boss is big person with second wind heroic turnaround theme a routine It kind of pisses me off that they left the phase transition cutscene in the weekly boss version.
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May 11, 2024 04:48
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Gamerofthegame posted:i hope they don't make boss is big person with second wind heroic turnaround theme a routine
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May 11, 2024 05:01
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GoodluckJonathan posted:*What is UP with all the Roman Catholic stuff in Sunday's backstory? It's a nice way to tie up all his themes in one thematic package. His intrinsic themes are philosophical, hierarchical, self-sacrificing, and downright Biblical. He is almost literally too concerned with the fall of every sparrow. So make him a priest, and make his order intrinsically Catholic. Making it recognizably a religious thing highlights his flaw, which is his lack of faith. In the Aeons, in people being able to overcome, in himself, in everything. He has given up. When Firefly tells him his plan is just escape, he asks what's wrong with escape? When he asks what God the weak should pray to, he's asking for himself. quote:*Why did Sparkles bombs not go off? We aren't done yet. quote:*Someone please explain to me what explicitly is the Child's Dream. What it was supposed to be was a sort of final message from Mikhail. It's all his dreams for the future, expressed in the form of his childhood imagination. A place for Clockie to rest until you show up. But this is Penacony, and his dreams are a bit more real than they are in other places. Misha is a person themselves, and has free will. When the train arrived they popped off to join. That's what they did as a young man after all, they left on a great adventure on the Express. The original intent was that we show up, Gallagher shows us the bubble, we enter the bubble, and we have what is effectively the final conversation with Mikhail. quote:*By what mechanism did the Penacony residents "save themselves"? Seems like we just beat the end boss with the offscreen help of some Galaxy Rangers and that was that It's a 3 step process. Step one, you need a bunch of new people to overwhelm Sunday's ability to keep everyone asleep. Without that, there's nothing *anyone* can do. So the Galaxy Rangers, who literally are there just to be bodies. They are people he has to try to control, and it brings him to the limit. Step two, you actively need those people to want to wake up. So Acheron attacks them with the power of Nihility, which is enough to get anyone to fight to survive...even from a dream. And then step 3, at the end, Robin ties their wills together to give us the strength to fight Sunday directly, which we fashion into the form of a train. Because of course we would. Gamerofthegame posted:i hope they don't make boss is big person with second wind heroic turnaround theme a routine Agree to disagree on that one. Mulva fucked around with this message at 06:03 on May 11, 2024 |
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May 11, 2024 06:01
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I enjoyed 2.2's story for the most part. Misha's part with the watchmaker and going over that backstory, as well as Acheron's background as the emanator guiding people affected by IX, along with Tiernan. I found it kind of funny that Firefly was trying to rush through the auditions, though it made sense. And the bit where you can skip the fight with Argenti by just telling him the truth.librarerun posted:Either the punchline hasn't landed yet, since we still have more Penacony story left or she was even more of a red herring and rube than even she thought, given that she was caught up in Ena's Dream too. It's entirely possible that she thought she knew more about what was going on than she really did, and badly underestimated what was really going to happen at the Charmony festival While the Charmony Festival didn't end up happening, I do still think that the button is going to still come into play at some point before the crew warps out. Or maybe it'll be more amusing (from Sparkle's perspective) for it to happen on a return visit when everyone's forgotten about it. Also, is Gallagher going to cease to exist? If I understand what he said in his last scene correctly, since he's done his job he won't exist anymore. I'm not really familiar with how the Enigmata and fictionologists work.
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May 11, 2024 06:34
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Zebia posted:Also, is Gallagher going to cease to exist? If I understand what he said in his last scene correctly, since he's done his job he won't exist anymore. I'm not really familiar with how the Enigmata and fictionologists work. Part of it is Gallagher, much like the Watchmaker and Gopher Wood, only exist in the Dream/Memory Zone, their physical bodies are all long since decayed. Micah too probably. They're all from the original war against the IPC after all. At least, this is my understanding of certain things. A side quest/lore dump thing explains that the dream can slow aging and extend your lifespan far past the capacity of your physical body, but doing so means you will eventually just cease/stop and fall into a final endless slumber (ego death) once whatever is driving you in the dream runs out of steam and people stop remembering you properly. It's what happened to the Watchmaker. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 07:25 on May 11, 2024 |
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May 11, 2024 07:17
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Zebia posted:I enjoyed 2.2's story for the most part. Misha's part with the watchmaker and going over that backstory, as well as Acheron's background as the emanator guiding people affected by IX, along with Tiernan. I found it kind of funny that Firefly was trying to rush through the auditions, though it made sense. And the bit where you can skip the fight with Argenti by just telling him the truth. Gallagher is already gone. A dog statue pops up in the last spot you see him in that wasn't there before. Also if you do the other path through the Scorchsand area there's like multiple things that suggest he's Super Dead.
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May 11, 2024 07:43
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I bet he could lie himself back to life if he chooses
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May 11, 2024 08:03
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This game is ruthless (2.2) 
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May 11, 2024 08:20
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On that note, check out the logbook too.
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May 11, 2024 08:26
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Regarding Gallagher, with all the hound imagery and talk of being de-toothed are they implying that Gallagher is a dream-reborn version of Hanu or am I grasping at straws?
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May 11, 2024 08:45
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Hanu is clearly a wolf
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May 11, 2024 08:55
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Symphoric posted:Regarding Gallagher, with all the hound imagery and talk of being de-toothed are they implying that Gallagher is a dream-reborn version of Hanu or am I grasping at straws? One of the collectible stickers shows the original Hanunue in portrait. He's a wolfman, similar colours to the wolfman from Zenless Zone Zero in fact.
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May 11, 2024 09:08
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i think that parallel does exist it's just more symbolic/figurative than anything in-universe. mikhail loses inspiring lone wolf hanunue but gains a faithful hound. also gallagher's description of himself as a "virtual character" (furigana(?): "fictionologist". what do you call that in chinese? obviously not furigana) who vanishes when his purpose is fulfilled could be read as gallagher is a history fictionologist with a weird identity who, like mikhail, basically physically died but was sustained in the dreamscape, but it could also be read to suggest that he's a memetic entity like misha or something unto death, and the underlying history fictionologist who devised him is elsewhere or dead or hidden by enigmata nonsense. the use of "virtual character" in a way that apparently means fictionologist is confusing because he strongly implies that his status as a virtual character is both why he's still alive and why he disappears after showing you mikhail's dream bubble, which presumably means he's not quite dying in the same way mikhail did. if he is some kind of creation, elements of hanunue being actively baked into gallagher by the fictionologist specifically to appeal to mikhail makes sense. or maybe he is the fictionologist but adopted hanunue elements into his own persona etc. etc. his status remains extremely vague though my money's on memetic entity.
Valentin fucked around with this message at 09:33 on May 11, 2024 |
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May 11, 2024 09:13
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Gallagher's a weird guy we don't know much about and even in the big Mikhail flashback he only shows up once at the end when the Watchmaker was already an old dude nearing the end of his life so its very hard to tell when he entered the picture even though by all acounts he is super essential to everything going on with the Watchmaker faction in Penacony. But hey, that feels pretty appropriate for his whole shtick. You can read into his vague statements and answers a bunch of different ways and come up with a vaguely plausible explanation for him each time and I wouldn't be surprised if that is intentional.
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May 11, 2024 09:24
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Also I'm pretty sure in regards to the Little Hanu's Adventures thing Hanunue ended up severely mentally or neurologically damaged post IPC War, to the point of losing his capacity for speech (cool grunts only). If not directly permanently injured by the IPC using a dreamscape weapon stolen from Glaux (Professor Owl). The episode the Little Hanu puzzle is based on is one of the classics written by The Watchmaker directly iirc, which means it is allegorical for something in Penaconey's history. Hanunue is described at one point as losing his voice and self so hard that he had to be kept away from the people of Penaconey so that they would keep their hero alive in their hope instead of seeing the broken manwolf he became after the war.
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May 11, 2024 09:30
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with all these various weird characters running around i think the funniest reveal by far in 2.2 is that clockie is totally real but probably only visible to nameless (i don't think they ever really explain what's up with him but my guess is "memetic entity, trailblazer saw them first because they're repeatedly noted as extremely susceptible to memoria-related effects, and the others could see him in dreamflux reef because it's right on top of the memoria singularity") and continues to exist independently of misha and gallagher and suggests he could somehow show up as compassie in the future to aid us if we get lost. in honor of his voice i think he should get a keyblade. or idk a clock-hand blade.
Valentin fucked around with this message at 09:45 on May 11, 2024 |
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May 11, 2024 09:37
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In the 2.2 books doesn't Hanunue die at the end?
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May 11, 2024 09:42
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SyntheticPolygon posted:In the 2.2 books doesn't Hanunue die at the end? Yes, the mysterious person interrupting your messages vaguely describes how he dies after you finish the last Hanu puzzle.
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May 11, 2024 09:48
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Dang the clock puzzle got harder. I can't solve the 'awaken' clockie in the grand theater
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May 11, 2024 12:46
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Did I forget to buy out the MoC shop last period? I have the initial 20 odd currency left after buying the resin in the current shop. I think I may have done this in the last period and never remembered to go back and buy out all the non-resin items. Seeing the shop resets in 29 days and I'll have excess currency when it resets seems to point to my having done that.
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May 11, 2024 13:05
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Finished the patch, somehow managing to avoid getting spoiled on the twists. i am EXTREMELY weak to “listen to my song!” Power of song type shenanigans, so I loved the finale and hope every single future boss continues the pattern of banging music phase changes. I liked that the ‘okay we lost’ vibe of unease was immediately obvious, only for the reveal that we never really fought in the first place because we were asleep the whole time to catch me off-guard but made perfect sense in hindsight. I got the way Ena was involved wrong, but I’m happy I called them being central and felt it was signposted adequately. The real problem is Boothill is rapidly growing on me, and I only buy the monthly, I can’t whale for boothill, firefly AND jade…
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May 11, 2024 13:07
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I know they're subject to change but dang the Firefly Eidolons look pretty good.
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May 11, 2024 13:16
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Penacony has many layers and all of them confuse me
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May 11, 2024 14:08
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I know they're subject to change but dang the Firefly Eidolons look pretty good. Currently at E0 she looks decent, but E2 does seem to turn her into a whole different beast. She can wipe out 2 elites in wave 1 of MoC no problem, but she does kinda have issues bursting down bosses with big HP before her Ult mode runs out, and you have to re-break them all over again. But E2 makes that much easier to pull off. Though I think it's kinda possible that they're gonna implement a limited version of her E2 in her base kit, like only once per Ult or something
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May 11, 2024 14:30
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Valentin posted:i think that parallel does exist it's just more symbolic/figurative than anything in-universe. mikhail loses inspiring lone wolf hanunue but gains a faithful hound. also gallagher's description of himself as a "virtual character" (furigana(?): "fictionologist". what do you call that in chinese? obviously not furigana) who vanishes when his purpose is fulfilled could be read as gallagher is a history fictionologist with a weird identity who, like mikhail, basically physically died but was sustained in the dreamscape, but it could also be read to suggest that he's a memetic entity like misha or something unto death, and the underlying history fictionologist who devised him is elsewhere or dead or hidden by enigmata nonsense. the use of "virtual character" in a way that apparently means fictionologist is confusing because he strongly implies that his status as a virtual character is both why he's still alive and why he disappears after showing you mikhail's dream bubble, which presumably means he's not quite dying in the same way mikhail did. if he is some kind of creation, elements of hanunue being actively baked into gallagher by the fictionologist specifically to appeal to mikhail makes sense. or maybe he is the fictionologist but adopted hanunue elements into his own persona etc. etc. his status remains extremely vague though my money's on memetic entity. I took it to mean that the "Gallagher" identity had always been a lie, and that now that it no longer served a purpose it was going to be abandoned. He's a virtual character not in the sense of being a dream entity, but in the sense that he never existed in the first place; he was always a lie. Trying to infer his history from anything he says is a fool's errand because he has no history.
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May 11, 2024 14:35
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I am lovin' these lorehead responses, thank you all very much.
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May 11, 2024 15:18
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Lord_Magmar posted:Hanunue is described at one point as losing his voice and self so hard that he had to be kept away from the people of Penaconey so that they would keep their hero alive in their hope instead of seeing the broken manwolf he became after the war. Where did this come up? I hope they add some NG+ feature like FF14 because I feel like I'm forgetting a lot of details sometime.
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May 11, 2024 15:40
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Gallagher's a weird guy we don't know much about and even in the big Mikhail flashback he only shows up once at the end when the Watchmaker was already an old dude nearing the end of his life so its very hard to tell when he entered the picture even though by all acounts he is super essential to everything going on with the Watchmaker faction in Penacony. I also think Gallagher being a very important guy with no apparent concrete history is kind of the point, yeah. My take on Gallagher is this: Mikhail was the last force of resistance against the Family, and with him dead and there being no one able to carry on his will, the Dreammaster's plan was all but guaranteed to succeed. History Fictionologists don't want this to happen, whether for the good of Penacony, or simply because they don't want Penacony's story to have a pre-determined ending, or for whatever other reason. So Gallagher was inserted into Penacony as a character that needs to exist for the story's flow to diverge again. Whether this means he's a "memetic entity" made of memoria I don't really know. Siobhan's side event suggests that he's some type of a memory zone meme, but that in itself could just be another layer of fabrication. I'm kinda inclined to think that the History Fictionologists has the ability to somehow directly affect the "script", and they wrote Gallagher, "the memory zone meme who became loyal to the Watchmaker and carries on his work", into Penacony directly for their purposes.
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May 11, 2024 17:34
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coolusername posted:Finished the patch, somehow managing to avoid getting spoiled on the twists. Mihoyo is a music company that makes games. And if you aren't away of HI3, every big moment of the story had a banger cinematic and even better song. I have little doubt that they would stop when Wildfire and Hope is the Thing with Feathers are such great continuations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-VNG8vW5RA blizzardvizard posted:I also think Gallagher being a very important guy with no apparent concrete history is kind of the point, yeah. The interesting thing to me is in the final credits it lists Penacony itself as playing Gallagher. I like the idea that he a meme that arose naturally because of the situation the dream was in and took on the Engimata to accomplish his goal, instead of being inserted by an outside force. Eimi fucked around with this message at 18:14 on May 11, 2024 |
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May 11, 2024 18:07
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