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Schwack posted:Based on following DSA Twitter, this is exactly why I have no interest in participating in the organization. As much as I like to laugh at DSA meetings, there genuinely are some cool people doing good work there. Also, there are excellent baked goods! And way more importantly, Twitter DSA =/= IRL DSA, there’s no accounting for that internet nonsense.
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Mar 20, 2018 03:48
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Schwack posted:Based on following DSA Twitter, this is exactly why I have no interest in participating in the organization.
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Mar 20, 2018 03:57
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Thaddius the Large posted:Also, there are excellent baked goods! why thank you 
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Mar 20, 2018 04:57
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Just join the IWW lads
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Mar 20, 2018 06:09
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Schwack posted:Based on following DSA Twitter, this is exactly why I have no interest in participating in the organization. You better update that av, man.
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Mar 20, 2018 06:13
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whomupclicklike posted:Just join the IWW lads i was going to rent an office space at the local IWW building but couldn't afford it now PDX DSA rents it 
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Mar 20, 2018 06:22
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whomupclicklike posted:Just join the IWW lads I ran into the ITF checking up on conditions of Filipino seafarers yesterday. I was impressed.
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Mar 20, 2018 06:58
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Schwack posted:Based on following DSA Twitter, this is exactly why I have no interest in participating in the organization. Not sure what Maoist would associate with the left wing of the Democratic Party
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Mar 20, 2018 15:27
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punk rebel ecks posted:Yeah. I used to canvass for the city and the minorities tended to appear close to the city limits. Especially in the Northeast. But yeah I am at the the limit of Portland that borders Beaverton and it's surprising how many Latinos are around here relative to the other parts of the city. Granted, I suspect that rapid increases in COL may be from a statistical overhang from very high rent increases from previous years, for example, stores keep on having to raise prices from leases they signed in 2016/2017. Also, we will have to see at the end of 2018 what the numbers actually look like. Basically, I do get a sense the housing market has cooled, but I wouldn't be surprised it the cost of living keeps on going up for a while. Also, the hoard of new (and honestly pretty ugly) apartment buildings in the SE might be a factor (although I don't know who is suppose to be renting them considering how many people are in service industry jobs.)
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Mar 20, 2018 16:02
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I see. So these types of things are noticed a year or two after the fact.
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Mar 20, 2018 16:25
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punk rebel ecks posted:I see. So these types of things are noticed a year or two after the fact. More or less, there is a lag between the rent increases and their ultimate full impact on the rest of the local economy. That said, while I think the housing market is cooling because of imbalance between prices and demand, it is going to be a while before the cost of living becomes more stable. Also, I have to say that wages might be a factor, in a relative sense they are going up even if Portland remains effectively unaffordable. Of course, the issue is that I think Portland is still getting more unaffordable and the only thing that would actually slow or halt the increasing cost of living is a recession. That said, I think a future recession is going to be tough on Portland because so much of the economy is dependent on consumer spending, hospitality, and construction...all of which is going to be hit hard by a cyclical downturn. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Mar 20, 2018 |
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Mar 20, 2018 16:39
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What shits me is when the loving apartment management company sends a letter saying "due to ~rising costs~ we have to raise your rent" like motherfucker just tell it straight and say "yeah we know we can squeeze you for more money, deal w/ it." 12% increase in rent is still fuckin' annoying though.
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Mar 20, 2018 18:36
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Ardennes posted:Of course, the issue is that I think Portland is still getting more unaffordable and the only thing that would actually slow or halt the increasing cost of living is a recession.
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Mar 20, 2018 19:00
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Cicero posted:That or FULL VIENNA-ISM NOW. Seriously. Or just socialize the entire housing process.
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Mar 20, 2018 19:37
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:What shits me is when the loving apartment management company sends a letter saying "due to ~rising costs~ we have to raise your rent" like motherfucker just tell it straight and say "yeah we know we can squeeze you for more money, deal w/ it." yeah i hate that language, i mean there probably are rising costs for poo poo if they're paying portions of wsg, but an extra 100 a month translates into 1200 a year and your poo poo isn't being raised by that much. neither are wages most years
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Mar 20, 2018 21:14
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What about rent controls?
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Mar 20, 2018 22:13
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Technically i guess there's rising property tax....
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Mar 20, 2018 22:19
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Chomskyan posted:What about rent controls? IIRC rent control literally never works unless the housing is owned or at least substantially subsidized by the government. It makes things worse otherwise.
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Mar 20, 2018 23:56
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punk rebel ecks posted:IIRC rent control literally never works unless the housing is owned or at least substantially subsidized by the government. It makes things worse otherwise.
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Mar 20, 2018 23:57
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Rent control can't possibly be worse than what we're doing now.
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Mar 21, 2018 00:24
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Rent control tends to be fantastic for existing renters, but a very bad for new people looking for rooms as the savings of existing renters is fully burdened to them.
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Mar 21, 2018 01:02
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punk rebel ecks posted:Rent control tends to be fantastic for existing renters, but a very bad for new people looking for rooms as the savings of existing renters is fully burdened to them. Yeah. Subsidized public housing and building denser is the only real way to slow rent increases.
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Mar 21, 2018 01:05
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Peachfart posted:Yeah. Subsidized public housing and building denser is the only real way to slow rent increases. That's probably the most politically feasible way yeah. Rent control is a half measure at best and doesn't address a multitude of factors.
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Mar 21, 2018 01:08
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Peachfart posted:Yeah. Subsidized public housing and building denser is the only real way to slow rent increases. I agree with you but it seems like this argument happens in this thread monthly and it will end with the communists proclaiming that it is private ownership of property that is the problem and everyone else giving up because they recognize that there are very few shared principles to work from.
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Mar 21, 2018 01:28
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punk rebel ecks posted:Rent control tends to be fantastic for existing renters, but a very bad for new people looking for rooms as the savings of existing renters is fully burdened to them. 2) How is this "worse" than no rent control?
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Mar 21, 2018 01:30
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I think that the actual solution probably includes rent control, subsidized housing, giving more rights to tenants and just plain getting rid of the idea that rich people get to take advantage of poorer people by purchasing extra homes than they need then renting them out to people who need somewhere to live because being homeless sucks.
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Mar 21, 2018 01:33
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therobit posted:I agree with you but it seems like this argument happens in this thread monthly and it will end with the communists proclaiming that it is private ownership of property that is the problem and everyone else giving up because they recognize that there are very few shared principles to work from. give me your loving toothbrush
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Mar 21, 2018 01:36
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anthonypants posted:1) What? Rent control benefits people who luck into rent-controlled apartments, and then don't move; there's no means-testing or anything (in fact, it's probably helping wealthier tenants more than poor tenants), it strongly discourages people from moving even when they should (like when they get a job further away), and it means that landlords have to build future rent increases into their rent, with the knowledge that the amount they're able to increase that rent will have no relationship to the market. So, current renters get their cheap, locked-in rent, while rents go up considerably on people moving into new places. I think landlords should have to give 60 days' notice for any rent increase, and 90 days' notice if it's higher than 7%. We need vacancy taxes, and taxes on non-owner occupied properties (at least in areas like Seattle and Portland) to discourage speculation and leaving places vacant in hopes of getting higher rents. And we need development of mixed-use housing; in Seattle, HALA had a good start with doing away with single-family zoned neighborhoods; town homes, rowhouses, and mother-in-law units can all be built without "disrupting neighborhood character." Lawns are an abomination.
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Mar 21, 2018 01:43
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anthonypants posted:1) What? Because 'gently caress you, got mine' is bad when any segment of the population does it.
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Mar 21, 2018 01:45
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i'm over here smashing the gently caress out of the vacancy tax button but it doesn't seem to be working
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Mar 21, 2018 01:54
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Thanatosian posted:Rent control benefits people who luck into rent-controlled apartments, and then don't move; there's no means-testing or anything (in fact, it's probably helping wealthier tenants more than poor tenants), it strongly discourages people from moving even when they should (like when they get a job further away), and it means that landlords have to build future rent increases into their rent, with the knowledge that the amount they're able to increase that rent will have no relationship to the market. So, current renters get their cheap, locked-in rent, while rents go up considerably on people moving into new places.
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Mar 21, 2018 02:07
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anthonypants posted:Oh, well, yeah, of course things like "only x% of units can be allotted for working class paychecks" is a bad idea. Generally speaking, center-right "incremental" changes are largely considered to be bad ideas. Capping it at y% of the average monthly wage would be a good start, z% of the tenant's wages would be even better, and joint ownership of property would be ideal. therobit posted:I agree with you but it seems like this argument happens in this thread monthly and it will end with the communists proclaiming that it is private ownership of property that is the problem and everyone else giving up because they recognize that there are very few shared principles to work from. hmmm
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Mar 21, 2018 02:27
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Peachfart posted:Because 'gently caress you, got mine' is bad when any segment of the population does it.
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Mar 21, 2018 02:57
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anthonypants posted:1) What? Because rent prices for anyone looking for an apartment go up substantially more due to landlords making up the lost profit. This has been displayed over and over again. Thanatosian posted:Rent control benefits people who luck into rent-controlled apartments, and then don't move; there's no means-testing or anything (in fact, it's probably helping wealthier tenants more than poor tenants), it strongly discourages people from moving even when they should (like when they get a job further away), and it means that landlords have to build future rent increases into their rent, with the knowledge that the amount they're able to increase that rent will have no relationship to the market. So, current renters get their cheap, locked-in rent, while rents go up considerably on people moving into new places. Peachfart posted:Because 'gently caress you, got mine' is bad when any segment of the population does it. Exactly. Rent control isn't necessarily bad in and of itself, but it isn't something that should be used on its own nor should it be the main focus.
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Mar 21, 2018 03:33
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punk rebel ecks posted:IIRC rent control literally never works unless the housing is owned or at least substantially subsidized by the government. It makes things worse otherwise. punk rebel ecks posted:Rent control isn't necessarily bad in and of itself, but it isn't something that should be used on its own nor should it be the main focus.
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Mar 21, 2018 03:35
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anthonypants posted:Weird, I wonder why this argument always seems to go in circles. Your acting as if I have a history of frequently posting in this thread, or if I said something controversial on the topic, instead of just agreeing what the others have said.
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Mar 21, 2018 04:46
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punk rebel ecks posted:Your acting as if I have a history of frequently posting in this thread, or if I said something controversial on the topic, instead of just agreeing what the others have said. It is his specialty.
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Mar 21, 2018 05:12
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Peachfart posted:It is his specialty.
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Mar 21, 2018 05:39
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Peachfart posted:It is his specialty. I suspected that it was his "gimmick".
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Mar 21, 2018 06:31
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punk rebel ecks posted:I suspected that it was his "gimmick".
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Mar 21, 2018 06:41
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