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Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
So nobody has thought to try and take this bleeding-edge tech away from them yet? I mean, there's all kinds of ways that someone could try and take it - they could try to steal it out from under the PCs' noses, or blackmail them, or send a cool assassin after them, or just throw lots and lots of mooks at them. Maybe they don't want to keep the tech at all - maybe they want it destroyed because mankind was not meant to have such power and/or its theft threatens their share of the market. And if the PCs are just killing people willy-nilly, well, that's bound to attract someone's attention.

I think Jeff's Gameblog has the right idea here:

Jeff Rients posted:

Give the players the sun and make them fight for the moon - What I mean is that you give the players almost everything they want and them put them through a thousand chinese hells to get everything else. Put the PCs on the throne of Aquilonia, if that's what they want, then have ten-thousand angry Cimmerians invade, intent on burning their capital to the ground. Not because you're a sadistic rear end in a top hat, but because fighting off an army of Conans is one of the cool things kings get to do.

e. You should read Jeff Rients anyway because he has some pretty neat ideas, especially in the post I linked.

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Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

TheAnomaly posted:

Deadlands, Hell on Earth is pretty good for that kind of stuff.

I take every opportunity I can to pimp Savage Worlds and I am doing just that right here. It's basically the classic Deadlands ruleset stripped down into a universal system that's easy to run and play. Download their free Test Drive rule set here, and if you like what you see, consider dropping the :10bux: for the core rulebook.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Arrrthritis posted:

The main concern I have with PDQ# is that it wouldn't harbor enough character development

Actually, I think that a bare-bones system actually harbors more potential for character development than a strict one: with fewer mechanics structuring the character, the player has more room to use his imagination. Now, some people need structure to help flesh out their character, and that's fine - you can't always come up with an interesting and complex character right off the bat. But trust me: if people want to take their character in a certain direction, they'll do it - mechanics be damned. Just let your players know that you'll reward creativity, and they will give you ample opportunity to reward them.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
I don't envy you - it's hard to keep a PbP going, and I have resolved never to host one for that reason. I admire that you're trying to save it before you scrap it, but don't be afraid to cut your losses if your game gets beyond saving. Whether you complete this game or not, you should try a few PbPs as a player so you can learn what works and what doesn't before starting another one.

If travel time is boring, then skim over it. You remember the Indiana Jones movies, right? Remember how they would convey long trips by showing a red line moving across the map? That's what travel should be like. If nothing interesting is going to happen on the trip, then don't show the trip. "You sign on with a trader's caravan in East Bumfuck. After a few weeks, you arrive in West Adventureland."

Also, don't be afraid to ask your players what would interest them - they know better than you do.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Masonity posted:

As a background, I'm planning to run an Eberron game in a couple of months. Haven't even recruited the players yet, so this is all very early planning stage theoretical crap.

So, we all know railroading is bad, and forcing decisions openly ("Nuh-uh, your character doesn't do that, he does this.") is just downright terrible...

But can a DM get away with it in the opening session if it's being set up as a "guys, this is your introduction into the world. It's a single railroady session, then you are free to do what you like"? Of course, there will be a fluff explanation of why the DM "controls" the players to some extent.


The basic premise, without giving anything away with regards to overarching plans, is to have the PC's start the game under the control of a shadowy organisation of some kind. Crystal amulets around their necks compelling them to follow orders from the badguy lieutenan. The idea is for the first session to be them on a mission somewhere for the guys controlling them. Some how they unavoidably end up losing the amulets (broken, taken off of them, countered by a spell, no idea yet, but unavoidable), remember their own pasts but very little of what happened to them since they were wearing the amulets. From that point they are free.

Of course, I could start the game with "You wake up in the dungeon, the hazy memory of how you got there fading from your mind." A sort of "after all that happens" sort of thing. That way there is no railroading of actual play. I just think it'd play out cooler if I can take their sheets and say "Okay, you've been sent in here to retrieve the [artifact]. As you step through the portal into their base, you see [enemies]. roll for initiative!"

The second option sounds fine to me. Honestly, the players should be mature enough to accept the reasonable restrictions of your setting and scenario and try to tailor their characters to that. Yes, let them go wild and play their characters, but put your foot down whenever someone's actions interfere with the group's fun. Rich Burlew puts this better than I could in this article for players:

quote:

Decide to React Differently: Have you ever had a party break down into fighting over the actions of one of their members? Has a character ever threatened repeatedly to leave the party? Often, intraparty fighting boils down to one player declaring, "That's how my character would react." Heck, often you'll be the one saying it; it's a common reaction when alignments or codes of ethics clash.

However, it also creates a logjam where neither side wants to back down. The key to resolving this problem is to decide to react differently. You are not your character, and your character is not a separate entity with reactions that you cannot control. I can't tell you how many times I've heard a player state that their character's actions are not under their control. Every decision your character makes is your decision first. It is possible and even preferable for you to craft a personality that is consistent but also accommodating of the characters the other players wish to play.

When you think about a situation, ask yourself, "Is this the only way my character can react to this?" Chances are, the answer is, "No." Try to refine your character so that you can deal with situations that conflict with your alignment/ethos without resorting to ultimatums, threats, etc. This will often mean thinking in terms of compromise and concession to your fellow players, or at the very least an agreement to disagree.

Here's another example: In a campaign I DM'd, the party's bard lifted a magical sword behind the back of the party's Lawful Good monk. The monk had basically decided that the bodies of several fallen knights would be buried without looting, and rather than argue, the bard just grabbed the sword. The bad news was, the sword was cursed; it was the blade that had belonged to a ghost that roamed the castle, and whenever the bard drew it, the ghost materialized and attacked him (and only him). Eventually, the bard 'fessed up that he had stolen the sword. The monk (and the monk's player) became furious, and declared that he could no longer travel with the bard. Either the bard had to leave, or he would. It became a huge argument between characters and players, and it was entirely unnecessary. The monk did not have to react with an ultimatum; the monk did not even have to be angry, no matter what his alignment was. The bard had already suffered the misfortune of having his Charisma drained by the ghost repeatedly; the monk could have chosen (for example) to lecture the bard on how his theft had brought him nothing but misery. He chose to create player conflict when it was just as easy to not.

Personally, I blame the paladin for this. The original paladin class created the precedent for one player thinking he has the right to dictate the morality of other players. That drives me nuts. Ever since, players who select a Lawful Good character automatically assume it is up to them to police the rest of the party, and too often, the rest of the party lets them. As far as I'm concerned, no player has the right to tell another player how to act. Lawful Good is not the "right" way to be, and it is unacceptable to push your character's ideals on other players whether they want them or not.

Another useful application of this concept involves accepting story hooks your DM gives to you. Try to never just say, "My character isn't interested in that adventure." A lot of people mistake this for good roleplaying, because you are asserting your character's personality. Wrong. Good roleplaying should never bring the game to a screeching halt. One of your jobs as a player is to come up with a reason why your character would be interested in a plot. After all, your personality is entirely in your hands, not the DM's. Come up with a reason why the adventure (or the reward) might appeal to you, no matter how esoteric or roundabout the reasoning.

If the paladin is to blame for the last problem, this one belongs to the druid. Druids have such a specific set of principles that players often mistake them for being a free pass to demand that each adventure revolve around their goals. Raiding a dungeon for gold doesn't appeal to the druid mindset, so what are you to do if you play one and are presented with that goal? You improvise. Maybe the gold will enable you to purchase magic items that will let you protect the wilderness. Maybe the ruins contain unnatural monsters that need to be killed regardless of the treasure. Maybe, just maybe, the other PCs are your friends and you are willing to help them just because. Too often that last part is forgotten; I don't think anyone reading this has never spent the night doing something they'd rather not because a friend asked.

So if you're really paying attention, you may be thinking, "Hey, don't those two points contradict one another? First he says to separate what your character thinks from what you think, but then he says your character doesn't have its own reactions." Well, no. Separate your character's thoughts from your own thoughts, but don't forget who is in control of both personalities. The division between your personality and that of your character only goes so far as it helps the game; once it begins becoming a disruption, a player has a responsibility to alter his or her character's decisions in the interest of the group. In the end, your relationships with the people you are sitting in someone's living room with are more important than your character's internal consistency.

Pththya-lyi fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Jun 23, 2010

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Lord Twisted posted:

http://pyromancers.com/ is quite good for making simple maps.

I have some questions, or rather - would like to ask opinions.

My party inadvertently activated an ancient waygate in a forest near the major city they were heading to. This let through an undead horde from a neighboring undead empire who are constantly launching border attacks.

Whoops!

They're currently retrieving an irascible and reclusive portal expert from his paranoid trap-laden tower as he's the only one who can close the waygate.

I'm basically gearing up for them recovering him, bringing him back to the city, then having the undead launch their siege assault while the portal expert prepares the ritual inside the mage's tower in the centre of the city. He'll also reunite with his adorable 9 year old niece (this is important).

Basically I want to run a choice-filled siege for the players. What do you guys think of this:

1) They are first assigned to patrol the sewers, in case of undead incursion. Undead do, indeed, incur. They fight a bit, and discover an undead agent (recurring nemesis) has placed bombs underneath various points of the city. They may only have time to defuse 2/3 of the bombs. What do you guys think I should put at risk? I was thinking a choice between an orphanage and a hospital, or the inn they all love and a vital military barracks crucial to the battle coordination.

2) After that, a wounded guardsman falls into the sewers, gasping to them that the mage's tower has been infiltrated (betrayal from the inside or w/e). They race to the tower, only to be presented with another choice en route: The leader of the Paladin forces of the city is in trouble against a number of powerful golems controlled by a lich-mage, but also a vulnerable area - what area? is under assault! Do they go for the lich-mage, or save building X?

3) Finally they breach the tower, and storm into the portal ritual room - the old mage is barely alive, protecting his niece from the recurring bad guy. Cue fight. Here is where I really need an opinion, or to know if I'm being too evil.
My thought was that the ritual could close the waygate they opened. OR, they could use an "innocent sacrifice" to supercharge it and suck most of the undead back into it, saving a lot of soldiers lives. Of course, the adorable niece is the only innocent to hand.

Are these good ideas? I wanted to try to have a branching climax to the current story arc, with the final result tabulated on what choices they made (e.g. if they let the barracks blow up, let the leader die, and don't sacrifice the girl the battle is almost lost regardless, with the city really damaged, or the opposite but massive civilian casualties if they make other choices).

How would you guys represent the raging battle occuring outside the city walls? Have them run into guardsmen every so often? Have catapult shells fall occasionally into combats?

1. The sensible choice would be to sacrifice the orphanage: you need the command center to win the battle with a minimum of casualties, and the hospital to care for the wounded that are to come. Besides, losing the orphanage to the undead isn't so bad:


2. Hit the granary to ensure potential mass starvation. :unsmigghh:

Affi posted:

Group is annoying and wanting to play Devas, Pixies, Plants and Gitzerai. How do I get rid of their bodies?

No seriously, they're so focused on "getting good stats" that they want to play races just for their benefits. No other reason. I loving hate them. I want a more laid back group.

Mix lye with water to liquefy the corpses, producing a brownish sludge with brittle bones. Lye is already used for drain cleaning, and it works much better than acid. Watch out for the fumes, though!

No seriously, stop playing with those people. No gaming is better than bad gaming, Carthago delenda est, etc.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

EVIR Gibson posted:

Does anyone have any general tips for running a Monsters and Other Childish Things campaign?


edit: It seems I have the supernatural ability to start a new page with my replies. Dammit.

Include me, if you're running it through IRC.

Seriously, I've never played this game before and I really really want to.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

EVIR Gibson posted:

I'll let you know if I do. I'm running it this weekend and I have lots of things planned out and also a few key points that the players might take a different way.

It's going to go over two weekends so I am hoping to get to one real good cliffhanger on the first day.

Aw crud, I can't make this weekend. So never mind me!

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

crowtribe posted:

Next game is mine, and I'm looking at doing a single shot, maybe chasing down some Chinese criminals, who are really the star acrobats of the Red Star Circus in town from China, using their acrobatic skills to commit the crime. Question is, what's the crime, how do they commit it out of the ordinary, and where does it lead the party in the ensuing chaos?

One of the guys is a contortionist; he gets into secure locations by hiding in a box or crawling through air vents. The latter might make for an interesting chase scene variant as the PCs track him through the vents.

EDIT: The criminals steal rare jewels; their next target is sure to be the Blood Diamond, a fist-sized red gem with a reputation for cursing people ever since its original owner, the beautiful Crown Princess of Ruritania, was shot and killed by an anarchist in 1886. It is scheduled to be displayed at a local museum as part of a traveling exhibit on old Ruritania, which is now part of Czechoslovakia.

Pththya-lyi fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Nov 14, 2013

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
Good for you! Always remember: no gaming is better than bad gaming.

I want to be clear that it's okay for the GM to impose some limits on character types for the sake of cohesion ("You're part of a starship crew that explores the galaxy," or "you're prisoners in the wicked king's dungeon"), and it's within her rights to reject character concepts that make it harder to run a cohesive plot ("Everyone else made characters focused on diplomacy and intrigue, so Gorblak the Destroyer's not going to fit in.") This GM's taking it too far, though.

Pththya-lyi fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Jan 12, 2014

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Zereth posted:

... so wait, she is literally writing a script, and then not even playing it out herself, she's handing it over to somebody else?


Yeah, I don't see this going anywhere good.

If she really wants you guys to act out something she's planned in advance, she should write a play.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
I want to make a Titan World oneshot and I could use some advice on scenario building. For those who don't read the link, it's an Apocalypse World hack set in the world of Attack on Titan, a manga/anime where teenage soldiers battle nigh-unkillable giants that menace humanity's last stronghold.

I have the skeleton of a scenario in my head: the PCs are deceived into a trap by a superior officer, they investigate and find out that she's snapped and wants to help the Titans wipe out humanity, they try to foil her plan and expose her. This would be complicated by the brass not listening to the PCs if they ask for help because they respect the officer and can't believe she'd do something like that.

I need help adding flesh to the skeleton without falling into the trap of not allowing player choice. Suggestions for plot beats would help immensely. AOT hits a lot of the zombie tropes, so a lot of "zombie" plot beats can be ported into it. I plan to let the players figure out how to stop the officer themselves, but I'd also like a strategy to suggest if they're stuck. Furthermore, I've never run AW or any of its hacks, so general advice would be welcome too. Thank you in advance!

Pththya-lyi fucked around with this message at 10:02 on Mar 10, 2014

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
Thanks very much for the advice. I will have to let you know when (if) I run this and how it goes.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Elevorot posted:

On the other hand a game where everyone dies is not really fun for anyone but the DM.

Speak for yourself! One of the best one-shots I've ever been in was one where the PCs were members of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, who resisted the ghetto's liquidation by the Germans. Anyone who knows their WWII history will already understand that the characters had no real hope of victory or rescue, but the scenario was still fun because we focused on killing as many Nazis as we could before we were killed in turn. Taking the attitude that your character is going to die is actually kind of liberating because you don't have to spend time worrying about how to save your character. The challenge in a suicide mission is not avoiding death, but making death meaningful.

That was different from your scenario, however, because the players all knew we were playing a TPK. It sounds like your PCs don't know necessarily know how deadly your scenario could be, and it also sounds like you think they'd take a TPK badly. I wouldn't necessarily assume this, especially since they're playing a horror game, but you know your group better than I do. My advice would be to figure out a subtle way to ask the group members how they'd feel about their character dying and make your decision based on that.

Pththya-lyi fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Mar 13, 2014

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Writer Cath posted:

If it takes them a while to notice that they're working for the villains, I want to build up some subtle clues. Stuff like there being no taverns, no alcohol in the city at all, a strict curfew, people disappearing.

Most of the people in the town are very polite to everyone - not in a friendly way, but in a cringing, nervous way. People tend to end disputes by reporting their rivals to the secret police, so most go out of their way to avoid offending their neighbors. The exceptions are people favored by the secret police.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Rotten Cookies posted:

Jokes. They exist.

Jokes are banned under the theocracy. They create too many misunderstandings. Humor can even be used to mock our God!:supaburn:

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Deltasquid posted:

Retcon it as a bad fever dream of the guard. And when he wakes up, there's a Kraken attacking the ship. :black101:

It's actually a prophetic dream, and now he can change the outcome of the Kraken attack. In fact, he's going to start getting prophetic dreams more and more often, and things start getting worse and worse each time he tampers with the way things are supposed to be. With each dream he'll be faced with a terrible choice - does he let events play out and face the (bad) immediate consequences, or does he intervene and risk making things worse?

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Piell posted:

1. Do both - set up the dungeon quest with the arrested player, and then have the players do a jailbreak as cover (the guard captain can't just let the PC's go, after all, he has to make it look good for the higher-ups!)

Twist: right before the jailbreak is scheduled to go down, the guard captain is arrested on an unrelated corruption charge and is replaced by an honest man. Now the jailbreak's for real! (Full disclosure: I stole this idea from a Conan story called "Rogues in the House." It's a fun read.)

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
e. misunderstood the question.

Pththya-lyi fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Jul 10, 2014

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
The DMPC is best if she functions more or less like a robot: the players only need to deal with her when she's performing her function, otherwise she fades into the background until the next time they need her. She should get more involved in the plot if and only if the PCs get invested in her. As Lichtenstein demonstrated, some people don't like dealing with children, so you should only make the DMPC a child if the players don't mind babysitting.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
Or (stealing an idea from Deadlands) the slaughter on the battlefield draws a spirit of war and destruction into the world. The spirit builds itself a body from the flesh of the fallen, creating a hideous giant made of the broken corpses of the soldiers! The creature, of course, wants to destroy everyone around it. The PCs could come across the conglomerate monster as it's knitting itself together, or it could ambush them from plain sight as they pick their way through the bodies.

E: Read "The Colussus of Ylourgne" to learn another way a giant built from corpses and animated by an evil will can work for YOU, the GM!

E2: VV

petrol blue posted:

Necromancers love this housewife's simple trick!
VV
ftfy

Pththya-lyi fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Dec 8, 2014

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
I am thinking about running a Monsterhearts scenario about orphans who get adopted by an eccentric billionaire and are taken to live in his mansion. My concept is basically Gossip Girls meets supernatural novels - angsty teenagers have money and privilege dropped in their laps, but still have to deal with the baggage that comes with growing up in foster care AND struggling with your insatiable lust for blood/carnage/revenge/magical fuckery/whatever. But there's one thing I need to figure out: why would an eccentric billionaire want to adopt a bunch of angsty monster teens? I can always change the billionaire's motivations around, but it will be easier if I have something to build towards at the outset. The only reason I can think of is that he's Professor X assembling a team of mutant superheroes, but that's a little on-the-nose, don't you think?

Pththya-lyi fucked around with this message at 12:12 on Dec 17, 2014

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
Anyone got any ideas for dramatic stuff I can introduce in the Monsterhearts game I might run tomorrow? In the first session I had a car crash into the PC's classroom, then there was a party that evening. I want to mix things up a bit more.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
Thanks for the earlier advice on my Monsterhearts game. Now the game is starting to take shape, and I've figured out the main antagonist: A mind-controlling entity centered in the local insane asylum that feeds off of mental anguish. The problem is I don't know how the PCs can beat it. If they come up with their own plan to defeat it, I'll go with that, but I'd like to have some idea in reserve in case they can't come up with anything on their own. Thanks in advance.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Keeshhound posted:

Start a Pay It Forward style social awareness campaign to promote positive thinking until it has to either leave or starve?

More seriously, you're going to have to give us a little more than that; does it have any particular weaknesses/idiosyncrasies?
I'm trying not to say too much on the off chance that my PCs find this post and read it, but here goes:

The entity, which I'm calling Ataraxia (from the Greek for "tranquility") is trying to give the entire town moral treatment. It's a big believer in 19th-century psychology and attributes the recent (PC-caused) tragedies the town has experienced to ethical decline. It's trying to "fix" the problem by enforcing the middle-class values of industry (i.e. industriousness or work ethic), sobriety, and respectability on the town. For instance, a PC's mother is already affected and is forcing her son into carpentry and her daughter into embroidery. Soon more and more people in the town will dress modestly, pick up wholesome hobbies like singing temperance hymns and taking long walks, abstain from alcohol, eat lots of unsweetened bran and warm milk, wear anti-masturbation devices (masturbation was considered a serious problem back then), etc. Non-conformists will be forced into the asylum, where Ataraxia and its agents are most powerful; the worst offenders (like the PCs) will spend hours in the tranquilizer chair:



The thing is that Ataraxia means well and believes it's "freeing" the townsfolk from the evils that plague it. The problem is that the entity's idea of "freedom" is alien to most people today and should be especially horrifying to the teenage PCs.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Bad Munki posted:

I don't know much about monsterhearts and what would fit in there

Basically teenage monster melodrama in the style of Jennifer's Body and Ginger Snaps.


chitoryu12 posted:

3. Overload it: Fill it with so much of something (in this case maybe extremes of anti-Victorian depravity) until it metaphorically "bursts."
I'm inclined to go with this approach, mostly because Keeshhound convinced me:

Keeshhound posted:

The gently caress are you asking us for? The eighties have you so covered.



The game's actually set in 199X (the X is for extreme!) but I like the general idea

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Soylent Pudding posted:

Obviously the PCs need to organize a massive town dance party until the creature overloads. Adding to the 80's video list.

e: This actually sounds really fun and do you mind if I borrow this idea for a short adventure?

Borrow it? You just came up with the dance party idea!

Yeah, you can use Ataraxia in your elf games and I encourage you to learn more about 19th-century psychology. Moral treatment was actually an improvement over the previous mental healthcare method (i.e. lock them up forever, maybe torture them or charge people admission to gawk at them), but it ended up being pretty authoritarian.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Golden Bee posted:

They have to get a Band to come to town, and they're the complete opposite; proof of the moral decay.

Never make the answer easy in Monsterhearts, and never give them more than one trustworthy adult.

One of the PCs was thrust into leading a vampire gang; she's trying to make them kinder and gentler, which has caused some major resentment. They haven't expressed that resentment in front of her ... yet :unsmigghh: I think they'll make a great opposite extreme.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
I think that paladins - and holy warriors in general - are stereotyped as inflexible authoritarian assholes so often that many people have a difficult time understanding how they could be played any other way. In popular culture, paladin-type groups tend to be villainous dictators more often than not (TRIGGER WARNING: TV Tropes link). It's partly the fault of older editions of D&D for imposing a bunch of rigid rules and harsh penalties on paladins, but I also think a big part of it is a failure of imagination on the players' parts.

Even the medieval holy warriors the paladins are based on weren't always assholes. Usāmah ibn Munqidh, a Syrian gentleman who fought in the First Crusades, reports that the Knights Templar allowed both Christians and Muslims to worship in the Al-Aqsa Mosque (the "Temple" the order is named for) and even stopped an intolerant Frank [Western European] from harassing him:

quote:

One day I entered this mosque, repeated the first formula, “Allah is great,” and stood up in the act of praying, upon which one of the Franks rushed on me, got hold of me and turned my face eastward, saying, “This is the way thou shouldst pray!” A group of Templars hastened to him, seized him and repelled him from me…. They apologized to me, saying, “This is a stranger who has only recently arrived from the land of the Franks and he has never before seen anyone praying except eastward.”

If the Crusaders could be chill dudes, then so can your paladin character!

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

gradenko_2000 posted:

That's because people sometimes don't think of the game as "a story/movie/TV episode whose plot needs to be shaped for maximum entertainment"

Or even "a game I am playing with my friends." It's not just not-fun to derail the plot for the sake of your *~*character*~*, it's also rude to the other players who want to have a fun time instead of a not-fun time. I've been guilty of this before (my character refused to accept a quest because it was against her principles), and the GM had to jump through a bunch of dumb hoops to try to get me on board. It was really tedious for everyone involved. I should have figured out a way to go along with the original plot and still keep character ("I don't want to do this, but I need the money!")

If you're playing a game where paladins have rigid codes, you might have them say something like this: "Woah, you guys are talking about doing some bad stuff! I can't get involved in that! Now let me go off on ... paladin business ... for the next oh, four hours or so, and when I get back I don't want to hear anymore about that bad stuff!"

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

paradoxGentleman posted:

I hear ya, but I feel that on the other hand it would behoove a GM to not propose a quest that goes strongly against one of your PCs' belief; their adventures should be tailored to them, not vice versa.

Yeah, that's the ideal, but that's not always possible, especially in con games where every player is a stranger to the others.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
Update on my Monsterhearts game:

The Infernal PC (basically, a kid who's made a Faustian bargain with a demonic being) got himself sent to Ataraxia's asylum in yesterday's session. He's spent most of the game being a villain who does whatever he wants (he's in the asylum because he got arrested for some truly heinous crimes and his lawyer is going for an insanity defense), so I expected he'd fight hard against Ataraxia's control, but to my surprise he's embraced Ataraxia and made it his new master. In addition to the dark powers he already had from his previous master, he now has an army of fanatical foot soldiers at his beck and call. The other PCs managed to figure out that the weird badness was coming from the asylum and tipped off the police, but the Infernal just had the patients beat up the cops before converting them to Ataraxia's cause. :black101:

Meanwhile the other PCs are having their own problems as Ataraxia's control spreads into town. The Witch PC's boyfriend and mother have been brainwashed and expect her to act like a respectable 19th-century lady - and to marry the boyfriend after a brief courtship period. The Vampire PC is losing her grip on the hedonistic coterie she inherited from her late guardian (whom she murdered, though the rest of the coterie doesn't know that yet): the vampires are having enough trouble finding mortals to feed on now that most townspeople are staying home at night, now their leader is saying they can't kill people? How unreasonable! I've dropped hints that at least one or two of the coterie members is musically talented in order to set up the Power of Rock solution you all suggested, but the players didn't pick up on those hints and are starting to hatch a plan to drug a bunch of people instead. I'm happy to go with this, but there's another issue that's come up:

Amazingly, the Vampire's player doesn't think his PC will have any more problems now that she's had the lead rebel in the coterie killed, and doesn't see why she should fight against Ataraxia when things seem to be going well for her. The player asked to take a break from the Vampire for a while and play a new PC - a young drug cook (think Jesse Pinkman) who's struggling to keep his zombified girlfriend from falling apart. I've told him that his character could work if he can get the other players to switch PCs, but I'm not so sure it's the way to go. I don't like the idea of the player abandoning the Vampire character when there's still plenty of room to explore her - the way I see it, the coterie still hates and resents the PC AND there's nothing to stop Ataraxia's agents from kidnapping and brainwashing coterie vampires. But I don't know how to convince him of that without tipping my hand. If I do go back on the decision to allow him to switch PCs, I don't think he'll be all that upset - he's always cared a lot about telling a good story. He does love that new PC concept, though, and I have to admit it is a cool idea.

So, two questions:

1) Should I let the players make a big change and roll with it, or should I convince them to trust me and see their original characters through?

2) What are some interesting complications or twists that might come with trying to drug a bunch of people?

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Pththya-lyi posted:

Update on my Monsterhearts game:

We wrapped up the current plot line this past weekend, and it went great. The Vampire's player ended up sticking with the character for one more game, and gave her some great character moments. Meanwhile, the Witch desperately tried to find a way to stop the big bad without destroying the town, and the Infernal's player actually suggested the solution they ended up going with: sever the Infernal's connection to the entity. The player admitted that he was getting tired of playing the Infernal and wanted to switch to a different one, so we decided that was a fitting end for the character's arc. Long story short, the Witch and the Vampire used their abilities to get the Infernal into an electroshock machine and zap the evil out of him.

The game encourages you to end the "season" arc when a PC unlocks a certain number of advances and take a break before starting a new season. Technically the PCs aren't advanced enough mechanically, but we agreed this was a natural "season finale" and that we should end things where they stand now. When the second season starts, two players will completely change characters, while the third will have his character change classes ("skins," in Monsterhearts terms). Also, while the players are happy with my GMing, I want to have the chance to play as a PC, so we may rotate GM responsibility from session to session.

BTW, I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to use McClucksky. The school was closed due to PC-caused problems anyway so it would have been hard to work him in. I do hope to use him in the future, perhaps in the second season. I plan to use him like "O'Malley the Anti-Drug Dog," a sample NPC from the excellent Monsters and Other Childish Things. He's also an anti-drug animal mascot, but he goes much farther than appearing at assemblies:

O'Malley the Anti-Drug Dog character description posted:

“Hey, kids! Don’t do drugs!” O’Malley is a guy in a suit who comes to your school and talks about drugs, vis-à-vis that they are bad. But once he arrives, he seems to hang around for a long time. Like, weeks.
You caught him poking around in your locker yesterday, and when you got mad he said, “Somebody with nothing to hide has nothing to fear from O’Malley the Anti-Drug Dog!” And he stared at you with those big glass eyes of his.
Last night you looked outside your house and he was standing on the sidewalk, just looking at your bedroom window. By the time you got outside, he was gone.

O’Malley the Anti-Drug Dog is a total cipher. He hands out “Bark at Drugs!” buttons. He talks in a bouncy, cartoony voice. And finding anything out about him is impossible—he’s a figure of menace, weirdness and confusion. He’s a mystery wrapped in an enigma wrapped in a giant dog costume. And if you tell your monster to eat him, it says, “Eat who? Nobody’s there.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Turtlicious posted:

WHat's a good way to introduce little vigniettes into my campaign? I want to give my players voldemort style visions, but I have to think of a good reason why. The visions may be of mundane poo poo, or of super important things, but they'll be a kind of running theme.

A magic user is psychically projecting the visions onto the party members in an attempt to communicate. They ate/drank some magically-tainted food/drink. They're descended from gods and/or ancient heroes and Fate brought these psychically-talented individuals together.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Roach Warehouse posted:

My players don't like learning rules. They find it boring, so when we play a new game I need to explain things as we go and/ give a boring spiel at the top of the game that they pay varying amounts of attention to (understandably because it's just me saying boring stuff).

They all say they like these games once they figure out what they're doing, but I feel like their characters suffer since as a result they don't put much forethought into them.

We come from a university theatre club so the roleplaying's all solid and we've had great success in rules-light games like Fiasco and Law's Out.

We've got an upcoming Worlds in Peril game, any ideas for how I can encourage/ incentivize learning about the game and/or creating deeper characters (without setting homework that would inevitably be dull and not get done)?

Definitely don't give a spiel at the top, it's hard to learn that way. If I were you, I'd teach the mechanics concentrically (give them a basic piece of information, then expand out with related information), and teach them through contextual examples ("Let's say Punchstorm wants to Take Down a bank robber. Punchstorm has Smash 2. So take 2 dice and roll them. Good. Add your Smash 2 to the result. What's the total?")

If they really struggle with building characters, you might make characters for them. Just ask your friends what they'd like their superhero characters to do, then tell them what they should take. Since they're still learning, you should give them the chance to switch things around in play.

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Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Baronjutter posted:

Never give players what they want, that is not correct GMing.

No, it's "give them what they want, with strings attached."

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