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Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Ringo Star Get posted:

So my high school's graduating class president and organizer of the nearly-botched ten-year reunion posted this magical diatribe. He also uses a fake name on Facebook because he's afraid of repercussions (surprisingly smart for the poo poo he throws up there about Obamaphones and health care):


I wish this was a joke post by him. I really, really wish.

Oh and this is Illinois of all places.
I...I am literally having trouble finding words to express my feelings about that. One of the gently caress You gifs from the Political Cartoons thread wouldn't even suffice here. This is a childish revenge fantasy full of right-wing worship, a sincere desire for the suffering of people whose politics he doesn't like, and a brand of exceptionalism I don't think I have seen from anyone beyond the actual schizophrenics who run for office. And, to top it off, apparently Romney stops being Mormon or something because Mormons don't loving drink alcohol you ignorant clod.

And drat, that thing was hard to read. Too many poorly-structured sentences separated by ellipses. It even kind of hosed with my thought processes while trying to respond. I'm disoriented now. gently caress that guy.

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Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Kneel Before Zog posted:

.000004? Don't you mean like 4 percent or .04 percent or something?
The 2 mil referenced is .0004% of the welfare budget, actually. FCKGW was off by a factor of 100, but still...

e:f;b. No love for you, Jerk! :argh:

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Sydney Bottocks posted:

Part of me thinks he'll come around like the Chik-Fil-A people
They didn't, which is no surprise, since one of the anti-gay groups they were donating to was founded in part by one of the Cathy family members.

And from this Snopes article, they claim that they never promised not to donate to anti-gay groups:

quote:

A part of our corporate commitment is to be responsible stewards of all that God has entrusted to us. Because of this commitment, Chick-fil-A’s giving heritage is focused on programs that educate youth, strengthen families and enrich marriages, and support communities. We will continue to focus our giving in those areas. Our intent is not to support political or social agendas.
Considering that the anti-SSM and anti-gay groups characterize themselves as "[strengthening] families and [enriching] marriages", well, I doubt we've seen the last of WinShape's anti-gay giving.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Sydney Bottocks posted:

Ah, my mistake. I was under the impression they had backed down or otherwise reformed their stance. Oh well, gently caress them too. :v:
Yeah, sadly, they snowed a lot of people with their initial statement. It was kind of sad to watch a few places that had previously reported on the corporate/family tie to the Marriage & Family Foundation suddenly believe that Dan Cathy was ever going to stop finding some way to keep money flowing to anti-gay groups. I had just hoped it would have shifted gears to private (non-WinShape) giving.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Sarion posted:

This is a stupid idea and I'm surprised Buffet suggested it out of anything but annoyance over the Debt Ceiling debate
Looks like it might have been snark that's been parroted as if he were being serious. He went on to say

quote:

We had debt at 120% of GDP, far higher than this, after World War II, and no one went around threatening we're going to ruin the credit of the United States or something in order to get a better balance of debt to GDP. We just went about our business, and people did it in a cooperative way.
so I'm pretty sure he was just being sarcastic and making a statement about the childish obstructionist antics in Congress.

EDIT: Completely failed at reading the second half of your statement, which seems to be that you understood that already. Whoops. :shobon: Might as well leave it for anyone who didn't get it, though.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?
If anyone wants to play the numbers game regarding the "vote themselves a pay increase" thing from the "28th Amendment" email, you can always point out that the scheme in the e-mail, if applied from 2000, would mean that Congressional salary would be $5-6000 higher than it is now. Applied retroactively to 1975 (when the Social Security COLA was established), it would lead to Congressional salaries being $20,000 higher than they are now.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Ratmtattat posted:

Fun little thing to throw around with this verse is that there isn't an actual Eye of the Needle that a lot of evangelicals think exist. The link below has more of an explanation, but basically the word that has been translated as "Camel" is more likely to be "rope" which makes a great deal more sense in context.

Click

It's truly at odds with the prosperity gospel that is still being preached in a modified format today.

Not to be a douche, but while the article you linked to does a good job of pointing out "no, there was no gate named Eye of the Needle", it also spends a couple paragraphs explaining why the word could very well have been "camel", and why it's no more likely that it was supposed to be "rope" than "camel". In fact, the better part of it is in being able to point out that people are attempting to re-"translate" and reinterpret the Bible completely separated from the historical, cultural, and linguistic history of each part's respective era, and that modern Evangelical sola scriptura is devoid of actual argumentative merit, because it's based on an argument from ignorance (literally, "I don't need to know anything but what the Bible says"), and often only on what someone else has told them the Bible says. The number of people who think they can reinterpret the theology of a religion based solely on its English translation and various "textual trickeries", as that article puts it, are especially infuriating.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Arglebargle III posted:

I wouldn't be against a ban on semi-automatic guns above a certain caliber and/or kinetic energy, if you want to ban 5.56 milwank murderizers guns without banning .223 varmint rifles.
5.56 NATO and .223 Remington are almost the same in terms of kinetic energy imparted to the target (~1800J). In fact, 5.56 at the same bullet weight delivers marginally less kinetic energy to the target.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

andrew smash posted:

does varmint mean different things in different parts of the country? I'm from Oregon and I grew up thinking varmint meant prairie dog to coyote sized pest and the appropriate weapons to deal with them are .22 LR or .22 mag chambered, not .223 which is a whole different beast.
Not to get too gunspergy about it, but you want a higher-velocity, higher ballistic coefficient round for varminting because it can be hard to get within range of .22LR without prairie dogs/gophers going back into hiding from your approach. .22WMR is marginally better. .223 Rem has twice to three times the BC of .22LR (meaning it's more stable and better suited for longer ranges).

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Bruce Leroy posted:

I'm aware of the labor laws associated with unpaid internships but there is so much ambiguity and so many loopholes that employers can get away with violating labor laws. They prey on the desperation of interns and their ignorance about their rights, pretty much like workers in every industry and every level of employment.
It's a little less "ambiguity and loopholes" and more that last bit about employees not knowing their rights and being too afraid to complain when they're violated. Or just literally not caring what the laws are and thinking that things like "overtime pay" are optional. Still can't figure out why the firm that did payroll for my fiancee's last job didn't know that literally everything they did regarding overtime was illegal (stretching out hours across paychecks so as not to pay overtime rate, or trying to claim an "8/80" schedule - which they don't qualify for in the first place - but forgetting that the "8" means "any day with more than 8 hours worked is overtime if it's more beneficial to the employee"). A lot of this stuff is very cut-and-dried, and it's really more the predatory nature of the companies in question that fuels things like illegally classifying employees as contractors.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

JohnClark posted:

I say this without meaning to be in any way flippant; what on earth makes you believe that the NRA would entertain ANY gun restrictions at all, given their history? Most especially a restriction that could very easily be painted as "outlawing virtually all handguns!" or some such?
Yeah, this isn't too hard to spin as being akin to the stupid "prohibitive ammo tax" thing. From the NRA frame of view, this would be seen as just the first step toward abolishing concealed carry.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

The Sin of Onan posted:

Oh come on! Who on Earth could possibly oppose elected officials being paid to serve? This guy is outright stating that government should only be open to the rich!

Also, Congress pretty much never served without pay.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

The Sin of Onan posted:

The US population was 0% in 1989, and has since grown to just under 30%. And the country is 180% dependent on government?

I have no idea what this graph says.
The y-axis is "percent change since 1988".

So according to the chart, from 1988 to 2011:

1) The population has increased by approximately 30%
2) The number of people in Federal programs has increased by 60%
3) The :siren:Index of Dependence on Government Score:siren: has increased by 180%

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Teach posted:

Hi thread - de-lurking to ask a quick questions or two. The following pic just popped up on my FB feed -


I am pretty sure that I'm right to think that it's a crock of poo poo, aren't I? I mean, I'm all for blaming the perpetrator rather than the victim, but this just reads like a parody. I'm sure I've seen a list similar to this from some MRA, but now I'm getting confused. Is it a genuine attempt to help, or a parody, or.... what is it? :ohdear:

Have I fallen for something that fits Poe's Law? I'm sure that the person who posted it (a woman I work with) thinks that it's genuine.

(Quick edit - re-reading it, I'm sure it's bollocks. But it's odd bollocks...)

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "crock of poo poo" or "bollocks" on this. The whole point of the list is just saying that rape is caused by rapists, and asking victims to "be more responsible" borders on victim blaming, if not doing it outright (or, in other words, the only people who can 'prevent' sexual assault are the people committing it; those other people are victims who are not responsible for preventing crimes committed against them). We do live in an era where people still think that a girl having drinks with a guy, or being asleep, or being a friend to a man are all tantamount to irrevocable consent, or at least "asking to be raped".

Most of the points on the list are pointing out that "walking alone at night" and "leaving your door/window unlocked" are things that people have the right to do, and that doing so does not make them to blame for crimes committed against them.

EDIT: So yes, you're right about it being a "parody", in that it's a parody of all those "here's some tips for preventing someone from raping you" lists that keep going around, some of which are full of things that not only aren't "common sense prevention tips", but border on stupid ("wear sweatshirts and jeans, because rapists will give up if you're not dressed attractively or have clothes that are hard to remove") or dangerous (can't think of any off the top of my head here, other than that I've seen at least one list pretty much say "lay back and think of England if you do get raped; fighting just means he'll kill you, and rapists never kill unless they get angry").

Kugyou no Tenshi fucked around with this message at 09:58 on Jan 15, 2013

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Leospeare posted:

XKCD, the webcomic with math and stick figures? Does it have an anti-Snopes history I'm not aware of?

Some people didn't think this was a joke, I guess.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Grayly Squirrel posted:

Its 4-something a gallon of milk where I live. The problem really is the drought, and therefore corn prices. The price of corn feed directly affects the price of dairy.

And there's the biggest problem with these numbers. There's nothing saying that the 2008 numbers are from the same location, same store, or same brand of the product (and I'd nearly be willing to wager they're not averages at all). A lot of these supposed "it used to cost $X, now it's $Y, so the President is bad" types of things are based on the lowest price from <earlier year> and the highest price from now, even if it means looking at store-brand cereal in a place with the lowest COL and organic locovore cereal from a boutique neo-bodega or whatever.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

800peepee51doodoo posted:

http://www.usacarry.com/new_york_concealed_carry_permit_information.html


Also, the license fee is $10. This is the kind of communist gun-grabber hellscape the NRA is warning us about. NYC is Literally Stalin.

You do realize that's a "may issue" state, right? That means that you can fulfill all of the requirements laid out and still be denied a permit purely at the state's discretion, and the only way the denial will be overturned is if it's found in court that the denial was "arbitrary and capricious". You can be denied if someone didn't think your reason was solid enough (including people saying on other forums that if you put anything other than "hunting" or "target shooting" as your reason, you'll be denied in certain counties), and the fact that you were denied once can be used against you should you apply again, which discourages people from applying in the first place. It's not as simple as you're painting it.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

pug wearing a hat posted:

I can't take screenshots on my iPad but:

"Amendment 28.

Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United States that does not apply equally to the Senators and Representatives; and, Congress shall make no law that applies to the Senators and Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the United States.

Congress, are we overlooking this one? It seems like kind of a big deal."

(There is no 28th amendment)

The sentiment behind it is almost 100% horseshit, and is based on information that, in some cases, hasn't been accurate since the 1980s.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?
A friend of mine just reposted the "$2 Bill at Taco Bell" story on Facebook. At the end, there was a new line appended: "NOW do you understand why and how Obama got a 2nd term?"

Normally, I'd have just passed it up, or said "yeah, that story's been going around for a while", but that last line was just too tempting to not respond to. I can't help but admit I felt a little (OK, a lot) :smug: when I told him that it's kind of ironic that people who take that story as "Democrats are dumb LOL" are repeating and believing a 20-year-old canard as if it happened only recently.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

ZobarStyl posted:

Is this what passes for convincing rhetoric on the right?
You should read the Conservapedia thread. A footnote reading "[1] - Fact" for something that's not even remotely evident is A Thing there.

Seriously, after having read that thread long enough, I can't help but wonder if the Instant Analysis post was actually written by Andy Schlafly.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Dabbo posted:

How do you even respond to idiots insisting that the Confederate Flag is just SOUTHERN PRIDE and not related to anything racist at all? Like where do you even loving start

I know its a pointless question because they'll never listen, but goddamn.

I usually point out the Cornerstone Speech, then how the CSA made it illegal to abolish slavery in any state (CSA Constitution), and usually some choice quotes from Reconstruction and post-Reconstruction politicians and activists (Henry Grady's a personal favorite, since he was still giving speeches about how blacks had to be kept under whites at all costs as late as 1889). If nothing else, it forces them to tip their hand and show whether or not they've bought into the "War of Northern Aggression" story, the "the South was getting ready to abolish slavery" lie, or just the fact that they're ignorant of what the Confederacy was actually all about. That's the biggest problem, to be honest - I've banged my head against this issue for a while, myself, and seriously, some of these people literally don't know that the concept of white supremacy was a fundamental underpinning of the Confederate political machine.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

TURN IT OFF! posted:

It isn't so much that it is genetically altered, it's (usually) Monsantos business practices and the concept that you can own DNA that get people riled up.

I take it you haven't heard the "Frankenfood" crowd, then? Because seriously, the people who are crusading the hardest for GMO labeling aren't doing it on business ethics grounds alone. The phrase "the effects of GMO food on the human body", or some variation of it, is a fairly common thing. There are people who believe that GMO foods are inherently carcinogenic or toxic because of some lovely French or Russian studies. poo poo, even the "Monsanto is a bad company because ethics" thing is just a modern evolution of "Monsanto is an evil company that poisons people on purpose".

Kugyou no Tenshi fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Jun 16, 2013

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Sir Rolo posted:

You know, considering there have been chemtrails as long as there have been airplanes, this seems like one of the slowest, least ineffective methods of mass-poisoning ever. In fact, I'm pretty sure the average lifespan has gone up considerably over the age of air travel.

By lengthening lifespans, they're creating artificial overpopulation so that they can justify their schemes to themselves.
:tinfoil:

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

muscles like this? posted:

Wasn't another state trying to do the same thing? Where they can't legally ban abortions so they just make laws/regulations that abortion clinics can't follow so they're forced to close down.

According to this list (list is from June, so may not be up-to-date), North Dakota and Alabama both passed the "admitting privileges" law. It's part of a nationwide movement called TRAP (Targeted Regulation of Abortion Providers).

What's sad to me is that people are being led to believe that these laws are just bringing clinics in line with "medical standards". The TRAP push is literally manipulating the narrative to the point where their unknowing parrots believe that abortion clinics are all inherently filthy and dangerous.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

quote:

Rap is one of the most degenerate things to have come out of our country, and it is tragic that it has infected whites to the extent it has.

quote:

Root-toot-toot-wee-oh-dit
Root-toot-toot-wee-oh-dit Rah-do-day
Root-toot-toot-wee-oh-dit
Rootle-a-tootle-a-toot-bah-da-doodle-day-boy

[...]

Oi, oi, Solid Potato Salad!
It's a Groovy Movie Salad, Jack!
Solid Potato Salad, boy
Da-doo-doddle-doddle-day bring it back!
"Solid Potato Salad", by noted modern black rap group The Ross Sisters.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Coffee And Pie posted:

I want someone to put innocuous rap lyrics like those against filthy, disturbing rock lyrics. Even if they have to go with death metal, which is basically cheating.

:confuoot:

Click the link. It's a big-band girl group from the 40's. I was trying to point out that the whole "rap is a degenerate black disease" thing is missing the fact that a lot of "respectable white music" used bullshit nonce lyrics that couldn't even be attributed to slang.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Dr Creflo A Dollar posted:

Same. "A kid who smoked pot, got into petty crime, and liked to brag/posture about how tough he is" is the common teenage shithead across America. These people are just freaked out because Martin was black.

It's the same racist bullshit that led to the criminalization of marijuana to begin with, really. Pot turns good white kids into shiftless stoners and makes those other people into hardened criminals that run over little girls in fast food drive-thru lanes and laugh about it.

Or, in modern terms, a white kid who smokes pot is just running with a bad crowd or being rebellious. A black kid who smokes pot is obviously involved in gang activities.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

gradenko_2000 posted:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/blackhistory.asp

Is there a good rebuttal to that? It just sickeningly smells of "See? A black-person-of-some-stature says we shouldn't talk about race anymore, so it must be true!"

Point out that he's being misrepresented? He's not saying "stop teaching Black History" and "stop talking about racism", he's saying "stop treating Black History like a curio to be brought out one month of the year" and "unless we stop treating race like it defines people, racism can't end".

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

EightBit posted:

That's exactly why it's so hidden and draws out so many smugposts when it is mentioned. Societies set expectations for men and grind them in at an early age to the point that many people are incapable of thinking outside of these expectations.

:allears:

What "expectations" are you referring to that can't be explained by patriarchal thinking? Are you talking about things like being financially successful (because women belong in the kitchen, not in the workforce), or how they need to be macho soldier men (because women can't hack it in the military), or how they need to be emotionally dead on the outside (because showing emotion is womanly, and women are irrational)? Like El Anansi said, a shitton of these "expectations" you're going on about being "misandry" are based in traditional gender roles at best, misogyny at worst.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Idran posted:

I'm pretty sure he's not saying there are any, he was saying the same thing as El Anansi; he just didn't phrase it as clearly.

Referring to problems caused by patriarchy and other "traditional" ways of thinking as "systemic misandry" that is "ingrained" in culture, which is what EightBit was talking about, is 100% bullshit.

Let's quote that post so no one tries the "he's not actually talking about systemic misandry" thing, shall we?

EightBit posted:

Systemic misandry is so ingrained into so many cultures that trying to point out the mere fact that it exists gets you shouted down[...]

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?
A friend of mine on Facebook linked to this article and said something to the effect of "even if it's fraud, that's not for a neighborhood to decide on their own". A relative of hers (I'm not sure who, and don't really care) came back with a tirade about how so much disability isn't going to people who are "surely disabled" (her words), and how things like Bipolar Disorder, Depression, and "I ate too many Big Macs and now I'm too fat to walk" (as if all fat people getting SSDI don't have problems that were exacerbated by, or led to, their obesity) aren't disabilities. Then she stated that while the guy might have been "misguided" you have to appreciate that he had the balls to post that. Also that people who really need assistance are having to wait too long for it because of the "lazy scum mooching off the gov't" (guess she doesn't know that the I in SSDI is "Insurance" - as in, most recipients are receiving benefits they paid for).

:wtc: It's literally a modern-day witch hunt and this woman is perfectly OK with it because she's decided that only being an amputee, blind, deaf, or mentally retarded (her words, not mine) are actual disabilities. I love my friends, but damned if I don't hate almost every single one of their families.

Kugyou no Tenshi fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Aug 11, 2013

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?
I now have confirmation that the idiotic relative doesn't know how SSDI works. She responded to my point that it's insurance with "If they have insurance, they're not collecting a government check and fall into the 'deserved' category". What the everliving gently caress. And of course, someone had to butt in with the "LOL you're arguing over a Facebook post, go out and do something". Nice of them to miss the fact that I mentioned that I have a crippling injury. :bravo:

The buttinski also tried the "no, (relative) and the note are just talking about fraud, and even less than 1% is too much for the people who work hard and can't pay their bills". And somehow, between the two of them, they think that it's liberals who have hosed this country up, and not the party/people who routinely argue against things like a mandatory living wage, better healthcare coverage*, etc.

* - I would likely not be disabled if I had better insurance from the job I had when I got injured. The only medical facility I could reasonably go to that was within twenty miles of my home was a clinic that walked me out the door with a script for painkillers and a referral to a chiropractor (for a non-skeletal injury!). I couldn't even afford the time off to go get a second opinion. But no, I'm just a lazy rear end who doesn't want to work, wasn't raised right, and is just looking for a handout from the government. Never mind that my back injury is one of a boatload of disorders I have, most of which are heritable autoimmune disorders from my parents.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Dr. Arbitrary posted:

Why should I be responsible for your poor choices during character creation?
She literally responded to me with "you are a fat rear end", as well as a post that reads like the dictionary of logical fallacies. And her husband pulled the same "Lazy assholes are making it big on MY loving DIME" bullshit. I definitely have to step back from this one, because I couldn't refrain from responding with "You don't know how SSDI works either - shut up."

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

nm posted:

ssi which anyone who is disabled qualifies for.

According to the SSA when I applied, I could qualify for SSDI but not SSI, because I have family who pay for my food and housing without hardship.

And believe me, I know how hard it is to qualify. I'm in year five, and having to refile from step 1 because I was given faulty instructions by my local SSA office (including several lies, which apparently aren't actionable offenses!). But yeah, that $1100 a month I haven't gotten yet is living in the lap of luxury, I tell you what.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Limbo posted:

I get $710.00 a month for my SSI. It's caviar and lobster every day, fetched in my brand new car while wearing my Nikes.

At least you didn't have to pay for your iPhone 5! Thanks, Reagan Obama!

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Tharizdun posted:

Ignore the rest of the letter and point out that the house votes its own raises, the President has nothing to do with it.

And that Congressional pay raises are tied to the Social Security COLA. And that it's automatically applied unless Congress votes to forgo it. Congress can't just "vote itself a pay raise". It has to vote whether or not to accept a pay raise they're already slated to get.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Handsome Ralph posted:

We have received radio messages from both enemy and British forces indicating they are conducting rescue operations.

If I'm reading the article right, rescue operations largely of POWs who were initially left to drown by their captors, kept from entering lifeboats (by means up to and including death), and had to jump into the ocean to escape the vessel, no less.

Yeah. The US bombed a group of U-boats that were flying the Red Cross while rescuing POWs who were left to die (or even actually killed) by their Allied captors. Totally just "attempting to decrease the size of an aggressive U-boat fleet".

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Handsome Ralph posted:

Literally "We had to destroy the village to save it" lines of thinking right here.
Also, "do you know how many lives were saved by dropping H-bombs on Japan?"

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?
Sorry, I meant the modern idea that dropping the H-bombs A-bombs actually did save some huge number of lives, not the justifications that were used at the time.

EDIT: Whoops, wrong bomb.

Kugyou no Tenshi fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Aug 15, 2013

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Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Handsome Ralph posted:

40,000-60,000 deaths(mostly famine/disease related over a period of time)
Thank you. Thank you so much. I finally have at least something of a number to point to when people say that so many more Japanese people would have died had we not bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I know I'm preaching to the choir, but the idea that we absolutely had to drop A-bombs on those places in order to save Japanese lives has just gotten that much more preposterous. I've literally heard people claiming that hundreds of thousands would have died in a land invasion, if not millions, and at least one person I've known has claimed that over ten million people would have died because every person in Japan was willing to fight to their last breath (literally the same "there are no civilians" argument we're still hearing today in certain other conflicts).

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