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FuzzyWuzzyBear posted:I've done trackdays in cars before and was wondering how different it is on a bike. I know that you don't have an instructor showing you the line, so are there more doofuses around in the novice class that are just going wherever they want? A lot more fun. I've done 4 car track days (2 in road cars, 2 in a Lotus 7 kit), and the cars are basically pretty boring. Slow, limited selection of lines, and (being cars) pretty one-dimensional. In my experience, car people are also almost uniformly unfriendly - there's no shared "biker" thing going on. The only benefit is that, where I am at least, they're actually cheaper to do, and of course if it's raining or snowing you can still go out (providing they don't close the track) without risking your collar bone and bike (I don't bother doing bike days if it rains - I figure I can crash on the street with those grip levels and save driving to the track to do it). Plus, if you have a thing about lurid oversteer, it's a lot easier in the car. You do actually typically have sighting laps with the riding marshalls at the start of the day. Real problem is that people don't keep up with the marshall, so only about 3 people are actually following them! And most organisers will put cones up for braking, apex and corner out. You are more likely to get Mr or Mrs 10-different-lines-in-one-corner in the novice group, but there's usually only one or two of those people who are _really_ scary. Then again in the fast group you will sometimes get people who think they're in a race and will do anything, including running into you, to prove their personal riding superiority (haven't experienced it, but I've watched it and seen the smashed fairings/scuffed paint/clouds of smoke from the kitty litter). In practice, the biggest issue as Z3N said is probably that people are often too polite and won't put in a fair pass on clearly slower riders. You can easily end up with dangerous 10-bike tailbacks of people on different lines, at different speeds.
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Oct 23, 2009 12:34
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2ndclasscitizen posted:I had my CBR400 trackbike out for the first time on Wednesday at Oran Park. Once I drained the tank, got some fresh juice into it and gave it a good rev to clear the plugs it ran really well. On the hot track the Diablos stuck like poo poo to a blanket, and it handles really well. drat small though, and I was finding it really hard to shift. It was 35 degrees on the day, I came in after 3 sessions at around 1pm, got out of my leathers and had to sit down because I felt really light headed and thought I was going to pass out. No photogs on the day unfortunately, but a guy in my group had his camera going and was behind me for a little bit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZRmt-i_DL0#t=3m50s I was going quite a bit slower than I thought, but my body positioning looks alright. I run one of those too... someone's old race bike with a CBR6 shock on it and lots of dodgy home-made fairing brackets. Don't have problems with the shifting myself, but I think they take a little bit of time to get used to if you're coming off something big and more modern. My first time out was pretty painful (including running out of petrol - mine's v. thirsty on track...), but the second time out was really funny - unintentional knee/toe down everywhere funny. It can really deliver on corner speed, but you definitely feel the 1989 geometry on mine - like it doesn't turn in as well as it should given how much speed you can carry through the corner. I borrowed my mate's '929 for a session and actually found it easier to turn in accurately - but so comparatively huge it was like I was doing a trackday on horseback. It felt a foot wider at the frame spars and a foot higher off the ground, although I'm sure it's nothing like that much. Saga fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Oct 23, 2009 |
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Oct 23, 2009 14:21
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Z3n posted:1. That's the price of going faster. You don't need warmers though, for a variety of reasons. Just chiming in on the sentiment that a modern liter bike is qualitatively harder on tyres. My 954 was the only bike I've owned that actually needed a track-day type tyre - I started off its trackday career on Diablos (being a Pirelli/Metzeler fan and because I couldn't get it to hit an apex on the stock bridgestones), and on a dry day with a high track temp (e.g. anything in the mid-Atlantic region in summer...) it would literally liquefy the back tyre by halfway through a session. It was like riding our local hard-surfaced MX course - sliding greasily out of the apex slightly crossed up and then hooking up late and wheelieing between the corners on the power. I kept the Diablo at the front but had to go to a corsa at the back to stop it. In contrast, my TRX (~79bhp)was riding around guys on '954s a couple of years ago on a lovely Conti Attack and an old Sportec M1, and could do that all day without the back end stepping out. And though I haven't bothered to take the Hornet to the track yet, the Angel STs are quite happy taking a thrashing from 94hp worth of 600 without any grip problems, so they'll stay on for trackdays. What I took from needknees' last post was that he might well be better off picking up an old F2-F4 trackbike/racebike, or something of that kind (GSX-R 600 etc). It'll pay for itself in cheap rubber and dinged CBR1000 rims over a couple of years. Slightly slower bikes, to me anyway, are usually more fun. When I was running a CBR4 last year and borrowed a buddy's 929 for a session, I was reminded how much concentration you need to deploy the power and then, more importantly, to reel it in before turn-in. Where I was putting in smooth laps on the 400, the 929 spent corner exits with the back fighting to get away, and corner entry with the forks struggling and failing to deal with the extra speed carried down the straight, extra weight and the extremely powerful braking setup. Admittedly, if you go too low on the HP, you just get held up in the corners and passed down every straight, but there is a happy medium out there. Also +1 on no-one needing warmers unless they're racing and really, really have to be very quick into the first corner.
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May 17, 2010 14:06
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No doubt, it's a fun bike on the track. I really liked my '954 best on track - its "character" only really came out in that environment for me. At the risk of contradicting myself, the other way to put it is not that you need a slower bike (liter bike torque means never needing to worry about being in the right gear, after all  ) to learn on or to prove you're suitably abasing yourself before the gods of track riding, but just that a bike with less HP is likely to go faster and be more fun/less scary more of the time. Hence my example of my TRX, which regularly outran "proper" sportsbikes, despite having zero weight advantage (~189kg), cheap-rear end forks and the worst rubber on the circuit. Not needing to worry about getting on the throttle meant I could get on it earlier and drive past the guy on the R1/blade/GSX-R in front of me. It's more like a bonus that you save on tyres and the cost of crashing it (if you decide you want to push that hard, that is). needknees posted:I know, I'm retarded.
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May 18, 2010 07:22
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2ndclasscitizen posted:Have many 400s made it to the USA? They're great trackbikes. AFAIK, none of the race reps were imported. I eventually gave up on my NC23 because, despite having great handling and making a nice noise, it was only fun on a clear track (or I guess if you're racing it against other 400s). If it got into traffic, you'd get eaten up on the straights by bikes with 3x the power, or just deliberately block-passed in your braking zone for no good reason. Having adjusted your line, you'd turn in and the bigger bike would then reverse rapidly towards your front tyre. Once you'd finished cursing the guy in front, stood it up and taken a wider line around the outside, you'd finally get on the throttle hard and start to pass, but by that time the other bike's stood up and romping away. Of course there are certain corners where they work - even with the 80s-tastic front end geometry, Gerards at Mallory Park allowed you to dispatch anything, due to the great length of the mid-corner. Guys would go in 40+mph quicker and a full 150m ahead down the front straight, and you'd be past them by the apex without trying. The other problem with them is simply not "making the distance". In a mixed field of faster bikes, the 400 often just can't make the optimal entry speed from one corner to the next. E.g. Mallory again - between the chicane after Gerrards and the following right/left bends, the 400 is basically vertical and held on full throttle. If you were going faster, you could exploit the bike's corner speed advantage, but you can't actually accelerate hard enough to do so. I actually found the Duke was a better track bike. It has a power deficit over the average 400, but the braking and handling is orders of magnitude better. With the Duke, you're still on the throttle when everyone else has hit their braking point, you can haul it down startlingly fast (despite having only one caliper), still carry a metric poo poo-ton of trail up to the apex, and the corner speed is so huge that you aren't wondering whether you can pass the bike in front of you, the problem is deciding which side you're going to go around him (and what rude hand gesture to make). You do have to pick fairly slow tracks and expect to get absolutely killed down the straights, but at least you're never thwarted mid-corner.
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May 18, 2010 12:35
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yummycheese posted:Doing another track day at the end of June with How's Tony doing? I used to ride with him occasionally when I lived in Boston and he was organising the semi-annual trackdays for SRNE.
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Jun 16, 2010 17:15
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yummycheese posted:Guy is amazing. Im guessing he organizes 2 events now and has turned it into a full time job. One at New Jersey motor-sports park and the other at Louden in New Hampshire. Guy can jump up on stage in front a crowd and just get on the microphone and have a great time. Ive seen him around the paddock many times and he is super friendly and seems to make it his job to remember every one. His riding is pretty good too! Back when he used to ride a TZ at Loudon, his lines through the Bowl were pretty impressive - well at least to me. So there you go folks, do your trackdays with Tony and Renee (presumably she's still around?) - they're good people. Looking at Tony's website, he has a bunch of folks as instructors who also used to be in one or two of the Boston riding "clubs" (Ken, Paul and Graham IIRC) and/or are long-standing LRRS racers and great guys. Based on my recollection of the level of BS you get with some of the other organisers on the east coast, this is the way to go for those of you within driving distance of Loudon.
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Jun 17, 2010 15:06
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Endless Mike posted:Seeing an R-series being tracked is so weird. They're good on tracks actually, just not a huge power-to-weight ratio. The only problem is getting the cam covers down - not so much of a problem on the "S" models I guess, but definitely on R and RS.
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Jun 24, 2010 10:30
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raffie posted:Seems that things have become more organised in the last six months. Previously the only track time you'd get was open trackdays, get in there and mix it up with everyone. Now two companies have started organising private sessions with technical support and some segregation and organisation of the riders into different categories. It's still going to be an open track for everyone but i believe under more controlled circumstances than i'm used to. They'll even provide instruction if needed, which i think i'm gonna go for since i'm rusty, haven't ridden Sepang before and don't really feel confident on my '08 10r. I'm trying to picture this. --> Black group - Mats on aging RD125s and the occasional RS125 (all participants must wear zip-together Scandinavian death metal band t shirts). Needless to say, this is the fast group.  --> Red group - Bengs and elderly uncles on C90s (Nissan Sunny/Proton Wira parade lap during lunch break). --> White (horse) group - expats and executive types on sportsbikes. (Generous incentive scheme to ensure quality riding means this group goes free, gets two extra sessions. Rumours that all fee income from this group was lost when the operator's spouse bet it all on 4D are completely unfounded and should not be repeated) --> Yellow group - retired trishaw operators, ice cream and Indian snack vendors, banned from our roads but still craving the adrenaline fix that only the courteous Singaporean driving style can provide (shorts, sun hat and those cheap rubber sandals only). --> Green group - 50% of all sessions are reserved for the green group by Malaysian law. needknees posted:motherfucking 130+mph lock to lock tankslapper. I have no idea. Lightly loaded front wheel and any steering input or slight deformity in the track creating a harmonic, plus big speed. This is why a damper is good, even a cheap-rear end Sprint. I did the same thing on my TRX going down the back straight at Oulton many years ago over a teeny crest, and that was a very stable bike. My feet and hands didn't stay on the bike, but the rest of me did.e: check your head bearings aren't too loose (or tight). Saga fucked around with this message at 11:50 on Jun 29, 2010 |
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Jun 29, 2010 11:47
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raffie posted:I'd love to have a go at this. I don't suppose you'll be there? I'll be in the yellow group: look out for the sidecar with chendol cooler.  In reality, sadly, I'm going to be far away from KL for the foreseeable future. Needknees - the electronic damper's probably not set up strong enough for serious track abuse, for fear that someone will fall off at 5mph and sue American Honda. A cheap Sprint damper turned up to about 2/3rds should handle anything you can throw at it. Hyperpro RSC are pretty good if you don't like damped steering, although their older dampers did tend to blow through seals regularly. Also, check your head bearings.
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Jun 30, 2010 13:39
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I take it you aren't allowed to just fit 17s?
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Jul 30, 2010 19:28
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Ambihelical Hexnut posted:Welp I went to go examine my wear bars (which I could not find anywhere on either tire) and discovered I have a nail or pin or something stuck into my rear. Good thing it didn't end up in your tyre! Those are expensive.  Ambihelical Hexnut posted:I guess it's new tire time! Boy I sure do love trying to find a place that won't hassle me if I didn't buy the super overpriced tires from them.. If you're not bringing the wheel in loose, also check they won't give you poo poo for not matching front and rear (unless of course you're replacing both or buying the same again). This is the other usual wheeze for selling you a new tyre.
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Aug 2, 2010 14:25
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TheTrend posted:Have fun killing yourself. Loudon is a death trap Or alternatively, it's a fun track and should be a great experience? Main danger - other penguin schoolers. The last one I saw was years ago, but it was a bumper crop of about 50 guys all trying to fit onto the circuit at once. OK, maybe not exactly 50, but pretty close!
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Aug 5, 2010 12:01
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Raffie has a ZX10R IIRC
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Aug 23, 2010 19:49
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I think with tyres that size, you just hang off like a motherfucker. Assume that motherfuckers hang off a ridiculous amount. Basically you displace the mass of your body more to the inside so the bike itself doesn't have to lean over so far for a given rate of turn. The physics is all explained in my John Robinson big book of complicated equations related to motorcycles which I've probably lost. I really like SCMP. I remember coming through the really fast right at about turn 5 or 6, having the back come around on me at quite a rate of knots, and then having recomposed my anal sphincter and stifled a squeal, coming out of the corner to be greeted by a massive fireball. Some guy had just slid his GSX-R off the track, smashed the tank on the kerbing, and the bike had gone up like a torch. You don't expect fourth of july fireworks on corner exit - I was a bit taken aback. It was also about 100 degrees, my back tyre started to go off and the bike would slide at the back as soon as you got on the power (a bit like riding through treacle), then hook up as you sat it up and wheelie out of every corner. I decided to switch to Supercorsas after that, figuring it would only be fun until I had a massive highside. The Keith Code response would be that you shouldn't be worrying about braking (on a 250?), just identify your braking, turn in, apex and corner exit reference points and ride to them consistently. The last thing you do to go faster is try to outbrake yourself. Rather, ride to your reference points, decide how and where you can go quicker, and then move those points as necessary. Of those guys crashing every couple of sessions, I suspect very few of them will have been doing this!
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Nov 24, 2010 16:02
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Going to do a gentle trackday (English summer weather permitting) on 4th of June. A buddy's taking my CBR out in the novice group and I'm going to circulate in my usual relaxed fashion in the intermediates. It will be interesting - the bike came with BT012s, the front item being so horrible that I replaced it with a cheap, barely used race take-off rennsport. The front end is now much nicer on the street, but I'm not sure what that combination's going to be like on the track. I just hope my buddy doesn't decide to get heroic with the throttle around the final hairpin. I haven't completed my collection of pre-crashed bodywork yet, for one thing, having been dicking with jetting and a Factory Pro kit instead. If I get a chance to ghetto-paint the fairing lowers, I have some suitably dumb stickers to put on them, including at least one which should meet with the approval of CA. I tried to find a suitable set of Hello Kitty ones, but no dice.
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May 31, 2011 10:07
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Took my (commuter bike) CBR F2 out to Rockingham with a few buddies. Due to someone dropping oil all over the track during a sighting lap, we got the 2-mile "international" circuit, which was a new one for me. As usual over here, the pits were full of heavily modified liter bikes, but this particular organiser is pretty good about safety and doesn't seem to attract the same coterie of paint-trading, fairing-bashing afficionados as some of the others. Got reassigned to the "advanced" group, which didn't seem like a great idea given that I was riding a ropey old steelie in road trim with a BT010 on the back (I gather that's like a D207 but for people who like Bridgestones ). As it appeared getting put where I'd originally asked to be would mean missing a session, I just went with it. It was a little disconcerting lining up with a stripped-down Mille on slicks on one side and a K1 with BST cabon wheels and swingarm on the other. I had managed to snag a part-worn front Racetec from my local shop though, and I figured if I could keep the front end stuck down, the back should follow along, as long as I didn't get too greedy with the throttle in slow corners. As it turned out, the F2 did OK. There was only one really quick guy on the whole day - a little dude about 5' tall on a lovely and fairly stock looking late-model Tuono. How he physically got on it I don't know, but the only time I saw him was when he was loving off past everyone else on the circuit at a huge rate of knots. You'd never see him for longer than one corner, because that's how long it took him to disappear over the horizon. Smooth with it as well, needless to say. I was a little surprised that the F2 didn't get comprehensively monstered on the two fastest parts of the track. The main straight runs out onto the banking, and you drop off into a fast chicane with only a touch of brake to tuck it in (if any), followed by full throttle back onto the banking for a second straight. I could usually catch people back up if they pulled away on the straight by just caning it through the chicane, and either re-passing them or getting back into touch through the braking zone. That was an experience in fear with original 2-pot brakes, trying to match modern radial calipers! Luckily, the rest of the track is all setting up for corners and complexes, so it's more about corner speed and chassis setup than pure power. The bike was initially dragging its rear end like the SA dog and smashing poo poo violently into the tarmac, but I managed to alleviate that by removing the peg feelers, turning compression up to just short of max and winding back rebound a touch on the shock. This made the rear a bit stiff into dips and transitions and caused a couple of slides, but was better than heavy metal digging in on every corner. The forks are using too much travel - even going fairly gently as I was, max braking had my handy zip tie up to 1cm from the yokes, which must mean it was bottoming. Feel is good though, so I'm not sure it's worth messing with them. I quite like the F2 all in all, although it doesn't seem to have a huge amount of "character" about it. It pretty much does what you ask and has about enough power, if not the most exciting midrange. It doesn't seem to fall between gears in a way that upsets the chassis, unlike the last ('03) RR version I rode, where you could have a choice of too high or too low for a given corner. Too high and the back end got nervous, too low and you couldn't get weight back for grip and both ends were nervous. The ergonomics work well for me - many bikes I have trouble getting my body off of. My 954 felt a bit like leaning off a double-decker bus and the Duke would touch pegs down before my knee approached the ground. Whereas on both the CBR600 and my old 400RR, I'm able to get knees and toes on the deck without any trouble/contortions. That does help to inspire confidence, as at least you know how far over the bike is (or isn't, in my case). In this one track day I managed to destroy more slider just cruising around learning the bike than I did in 3 or 4 years with the 954. It seems to really let you sit on knee, toe slider and peg-end and just cruise around like that all day. One of my buddies was sharing the bike in the novice group, and he sent me out on one of his sessions when he got tired. The disparity in pace was a little silly and I could see how it could get dangerous with people on lots of different lines and riding much more modern bikes with super braking power, so I only did that one session in that group. It was amusing just riding around everything and playing with the bike, rather than concentrating solely on getting the best line and extracting maximum speed. I think for a little more pace, aside from maybe a slightly grippier back tyre, I may get a set of cheap race rearsets and pull the mainstand. That should let me concentrate on carrying speed, without worrying about that almighty midcorner "crash", followed by almighty actual crash as the mainstand levers the back wheel off the ground. The front is a bit too soft and the shock is probably a bit tired, but I don't know that they're limiting me yet. They're certainly not scary. Any current or former F2 owners have an opinion as to whether they're worth addressing? e: circuit map - I recommend it! 
Saga fucked around with this message at 09:46 on Jun 5, 2011 |
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Jun 5, 2011 09:39
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Definitely what I was thinking. I don't know that it's worth doing much to the suspension. It's a commuter and the only reason it has a racetec on it is it was 40% of retail as a part-worn that had done about 5 laps. There's no way I'm putting a tyre on it that will only last 500 miles, and I don't think the extra compliance of a good shock is going to justify the cost. The BT010 held up fine - just a few tiny slides on the throttle in second where there were transitions and dips on or after the apex, and a little porpoising on one corner where the bike was being wrung out in third back onto the banking. No tearing or weird wear at all, so the shock appears to be basically working, even if it's limiting what I can ask the bike to do. The thing that will drag next other than the de-feelered peg ends (nearly there, as most of one toe slider is gone...) is the mainstand, and very close behind that the end can. So yeah, if I have time I should make up some plates and pull the mainstand. The alternative to plates is some $120 stamped-metal rearsets with replaceable pegs and delrin sliders, which are tempting as time-savers. Or woodcraft. I did try preload first, but realised immediately that I hadn't brought a C spanner. Pathetically enough, I couldn't get the preload adjuster to move in what I assumed was the right direction with a hammer and punch, so either it's at max clicks already or I was doing something wrong. So as it was dragging its rear end, esp. in the second half of chicanes, I upped compression and turned rebound down slightly to help it resist jacking down. Seemed to work, other than reducing grip slightly at the back, as the unexpected crashing noises stopped. But yeah, if I got the right spring or preload setting, I should be able to keep the grip AND the ground clearance/fore-aft balance. I do definitely want to remove any clearance issues and get both ends properly set up, even if I don't spend a lot of money on it. I basically got the jetting fixed and had no time to even set the sag before going to the track. Then I basically just messed around getting used to the bike. (e) I have never destroyed knee sliders like I have in one day with this thing, and that while just dicking around. I used like half a vanson trackpuck that's been sitting in my garage for about 7 years, and we only did one or two sessions after lunch. So it's already great fun, if not brim-full of character. I was able to cruise round the outside of my pit neighbour's fully pimped Daytona 675. Knowing his drainpipe-sized Arrow full system cost as much as my bike added extra  to my I mean sure that just means his skill level was even less than my "mediocre" (!), but $1000 bike plays $10,000 is still funny.
Saga fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Jun 6, 2011 |
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Jun 6, 2011 21:24
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Hold on now, I'm trying to enjoy my child-related poverty here. No fair spoiling my fun! < >e: It is a ramp type one - I was just being retarded and couldn't see an obvious index mark, so I had no idea if it was on 1, 4 or 9. Older bikes suit my pipe and slippers style of riding. Plus, um, poverty. Saga fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Jun 7, 2011 |
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Jun 6, 2011 22:47
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VTNewb posted:I want to take my sportster to a track day I want you to take your sportster to a track day. I was telling my buddy to take his Bonneville, but he wouldn't. It would have been a lot of fun in the novice group, and we could have trashed the pegs and collected some marbles with the Mez4s. Imagine the parking-lot kudos he would be getting at work right now. It also has a deafening, Ducati-drowning 2-1 on it, which would have brightened peoples' day in the pits.
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Jun 7, 2011 06:30
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I'd just add you need to check the passing rules. Many organisers don't want "braking contests". Obviously this is an issue when R1 dude is caning it past you on the straights and then braking at 250 meters. It can also be an issue where slower riders are braking for no reason where you are on full throttle. A UK example admittedly, but through Surtees going towards McLaren at brands indy there's no reason to brake on most bikes, but if you have a no passing on the brakes rule and the dude in front has no clue, you can get yourself shouted at / thrown out for simply riding the right line. In those situations you have to rely on getting the drive and timing it right so you can pass before the guy in front is out of the corner and fully on the throttle. I have found that different organisers seem to attract different kinds of riders, so if you're getting dicked around with, trying a different outfit can help.
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Aug 23, 2011 10:46
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hayden. posted:What's are some differences between taking a track-bike 600cc supersport to a track day as opposed to a street legal KTM 690SMC? Does the KTM crash better, is it less expensive when it crashes? Is one easier to find race take-offs for? Is one "more fun" than the other (I realize that's largely subjective)? Is the KTM going to make you fall behind all the 600cc supersports? Based on my loud-canned Duke II (maybe low 50s hp if I was lucky?), which admittedly was 15hp and 12kg shy of an SMC, you need a VERY twisty track, as in a SM style kart circuit, not to get destroyed down the straights OR in any fast corner complex. The payoff is that up against average riders, the Duke II on street tyres (which clearly is some way short of the SMC) would absolutely destroy the sportsbikes from their braking point to shortly after the apex. You could basically stay on the throttle, completely flying past guys who were already hard on the brakes, slam the Brembo on hard enough to chirp the front and lift the back, then tip it in while maintaining 50-70% of your braking effort(!), tap the inside peg down and then get on the throttle as soon as the bike was at full lean. From their braking point through to mid corner, you could basically choose whether to go inside or outside pass and the big problem was not running into the guy in front. But ... trying to pull out of any corner faster than 60mph meant you were already fighting aerodynamics and a lack of power. And on your average racetrack, that's a lot of the corners, if not all of them. Extended complexes above 70mph you were basically relying on keeping a max corner speed line and hoping that if you carried maximum speed, no one would be crazy enough to pass you. Until the next straight that is, where you get instantly annihilated. Just as anecdotal evidence, I took my '94 CBR F2 to the same track I last had my Duke on, got forced into the fast group and thanks to having a fairing and a bit of commitment (disposable bike factor!), kept up with 50% of the field and passed about 25% of them. And when I sneaked out in the novice session masquerading as the dude sharing my bike, it was like My Lai all over again. In comparison, with the Duke II on the same track in the intermediate group, everyone except the two Aprilia 125s could pass me on the straights, but thanks to that chassis I could out-corner all but 2 or 3 moderately talented dudes on liter bikes. The bikes it trounced included said RS125s and an RS250 track bike. On balance, my personal take on it is that if you pick the right track AND you bring a couple buddies with SMCs, you can have a blast. The track I'm talking about IS twisty by sportbike standards, and even so it was a bit fast for the Duke. Personally, I think it's horses for courses and you're going to be better off with any kind of beater 600 faired bike than the SMC. Obligatory YMMV. Only other data point I can add is that when I had my 1989 CBR400 track bike, it was pretty closely matched to a guy on a 690SM around Brands Hatch indy. And that was my first track day on the 400 (Alpha 10s though). If that's an indication of the 690's pace on a ""proper"" track, I would definitely go with the 600.
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Nov 7, 2011 18:25
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Gnaghi posted:All I can think about is how an aprilla svx with an aprilla rsv v-4 jammed in would be on those longer straightaways and sweeping turns. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej4cQv-K0so Excusing the on-the-advice-of-our lawyers video, I think this might be a little easier to get hold of.
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Nov 7, 2011 23:28
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Gnaghi posted:I kinda ignored the Nuda because it's more like Husky's take on big bore "motard-like" bikes than a svx killer. Really why the hell can't aprilla get that bike to work properly? As a former longtime TRX850 owner, I just like the idea of a big, modern parallel twin roadbike that's more performance-focused than the F800 family (itself obviously inspired by the TRX). Breaking 100hp in a parallel twin is rarely seen. The F engine is also for various mechanical reasons supposed to be exceptionally efficient by design. Something to do with a lot of work put into minimising friction/pumping losses plus the ignition/EFI side. So if the chassis works it could be a great bike. But personally I just don't see a motard type chassis working with a bike that big and heavy, especially with average riding abilities. I mean I'm sure they can find a Fred Guerin or a Ruben Xaus (as with the Hypermotard) to make it look good, but the average Joe or Jane is never going to be foot-out rear wheel steering around his or her local roundabout on a 200kg wet monster-moto.
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Nov 8, 2011 15:51
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NitroSpazzz posted:For those of you with a track bike that also sees some (limited) street use, what tires are you using? BT090 or Dunlop Alpha 10 would be interesting to try if this is a lightened SV track bike. Both very nice for lighter bikes with less power. IMO, at fast novice to intermediate you don't even need a road sports tyre, at least not with 67hp (assuming this is an SV650 not a thou), and it will be easier to find takeoffs in decent condition if you just buy an up-to-date sports touring tyre. Has the bonus that they last longer and have very little warm up time for road riding. Roadsmart, BT023, Angel ST, whatever the Michelin choice these days is should all be good. Also more likely to find them in 160. When I had my 600 F2, it came with an old BT012 on the back and when I asked the track day tyre dude what he had in 160, he just shrugged and picked his nose. 180 and 190 only is what I guess that meant. You don't need tyre warmers for ever (also IMO) unless you're club racing and either using a slick that requires pre-heating or just really need that holeshot into the first corner. The tyres will warm themselves.
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May 14, 2012 13:37
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Did my first trackday with the Tuono yesterday at Rockingham, sharing the bike with my brother in law. I discovered that sport-touring tyres don't really cut it on the Tuono for track use, unfortunately for my wallet. They were running one of the more balanced layouts at Rockingham with about 50% right handed corners, and my rear BT023 was already just about down to the wear bars on the right (most layouts are left handed, so I thought I'd get away with it). By the end of session 2 the rear tyre was dead, and I managed to get about halfway to a highside while gently tapping the power on. I'm not a sticky-tyre tart, but if you can't manage a cruising lap in the initial sessions without being pogoed upright on the exit, it's probably a sign that something better is needed. I ended up paying for a BT016 to match my part-worn BT016 Pro front. The Tuono ended up working well on track, although it did show up the fact that my shock is mostly hosed. The bike was basically bouncing away whenever you got on the throttle. No moments once the new tyre went on, and it was as predictable and easy to place on the track as it is on the road. Very much a bike of its time as far as sheer size goes - while far easier to ride because it's thinner and 10-20hp slower, it reminded me to some extent of my old 954. They both have very similar Showa front ends IIRC, so that might partly explain it. It didn't have any trouble keeping up with the newer bikes - I was out in the "experienced" group and it was able to take lengths out of a variety of big Ducatis and Japanese liter bikes on corner exit. Only a couple of bikes (an 1198 track bike comes to mind) could clearly beat its corner speed, and even the 1198 couldn't pull away over a full lap. I think that's pretty good for an 8 year old naked streetbike, albeit this organiser attracts less boy racers than others, so while the competing equipment was better, the riders probably weren't as aggressive. Definitely going to swap in a used Ohlins from an RSV/Tuono Factory or pick up a Nitron Track for it, for safety if nothing else. A bit more ride height would probably also help it out in transitions, where it was a bit slow. Just as on the road, once the back tyre was sorted out, the front felt like it was going to push first, and with 2" risers and wide bars instead of clip ons it was tough to do anything to get much more weight on the front. Not an issue in slow corners when trailing brake in, more something that came up in fast corners at maximum lean. As it's a road bike, it's not really a huge concern, and it will get toes and peg-ends down before the front's really pushing, so that's good enough for me. Forgot my camera so probably no pictures to come, but coolest bike of the day was a beat-to-poo poo 90s 900SS with a rattle-can matt black paint job, white frame, rust, two band-aids over a dent in the tank, a slow oil leak from the rear cylinder and a Nitron race shock. Nothing on it was clean. The rider was keeping up with most of the fast group, just getting killed on the straights. He also rode it there and was the only dude in our group other than me with lights and a number plate. Only his second track day, and he rode it up from London. Also  - predictably the owner wasn't a middle-aged Englishman with yet another middle-management mid-life crisis trackbike.
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Jun 26, 2012 07:38
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It was definitely a trackday aimed mostly at street riders - actually literally described as a training day, although it was more like a track day with actual instructors (if you wanted them) instead of riding marshalls or whatever you want to call them. Outside of the "fast" (but going gently?) group, there were lots of the sort of bikes you never see on a (UK) trackday any more - i.e. bikes with numberplates, lots of things that weren't generic 600/1000cc Japanese sportsbikes. Much more how trackdays used to be with a friendly atmosphere rather than lots of dick waving. I'd definitely do one with the same dudes again. http://www.rapidtraining.co.uk/trainingdays.html Oh, and I got my Ducatis mixed up, it was a 1098 track bike not an 1198. I can't really tell them apart after the 999.
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Jun 26, 2012 19:45
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I'd always keep a lower gearing. Helps you get past liter bikes out of corners. If the top speed difference is 1mph it's a no-brainer. I'd personally probably stick with the current Q2 if it's just been squared off from highway riding and take it easy in the first session to see how it goes. Granted the transition onto the flat bit is not ideal, but with the Tuono the critical thing seems to be being able to get the power down mid corner without going too sideways. However...it's certainly prudent to get a new tyre, depends how much money you have to throw around. As you probably saw above, my Mk 1 Tuono just vaporised the back end on the track. It ate about 2-2.5mm of a used BT023 in the first two sessions, and the rest of the day took about 50% of the life out of a BT016. So if you have 1mm before the wear bars at the sides of the tyre, I doubt it's going to get you through a day. Only things I'd emphasise in terms of moving up a group are: 1) if your objective isn't to bro it up, show everyone you heap big racer and then crash ignominiously while everyone sniggers at you, you should still be riding at your own pace and focussing on identifying a fast line and riding it accurately (and consistently so the people behind you know what you're about to do). So far so obvious, but the point is there's no reason your riding should change - going up a group just means you shouldn't get held up in the corners by wobblers because (i) probably passing rules are a bit more relaxed and (ii) the pace should be higher. 2) if you're going to try to up your pace, don't try to go fast in slow corners and don't charge your braking zones (i.e. get into a braking contest with yourself). Last trackday I did had a lot of mostly road riders, and there were more crashes in the novice group than any other. If you exclude running off the track like a muppet and having to push or ride it back onto the track, the fast group had no crashes all day IIRC. Three of the crashes in the novice group were people attempting heroics out of (and in one case into) a 150 degree, 30 mph if you're lucky hairpin. You're not going to improve your lap time meaningfully even if you succeed, and you're asking for a highside and a trip to the hospital with a smashed collar bone if you don't. My experience is that on most tracks, especially ones with a bunch of compound corners, you can absolutely blitz a better equipped road rider of similar or greater ability if you've figured out the lines and they haven't. Unless Texan track day riders are all mad keen or the track is incredibly boring, ignoring other riders, figuring out your line and riding it will take you past 90% of people in the B group without even getting close to the Tuono's limits. It's surprising just how many road riders will go around all day and not try to find an efficient line. Other reason to do this is that following someone who looks faster than you when you're inexperienced works until he/she fucks up and you follow them off the track. Saga fucked around with this message at 10:24 on Jul 3, 2012 |
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Jul 3, 2012 10:17
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invision posted:TWS is basically a dragstrip that happens to have curves in it: Assuming they run it clockwise, that is one long-rear end run up onto the banking. I would still stick with a lower gearing for track days with the Tuono myself to make life easier in the corners and make passing easier.
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Jul 5, 2012 10:12
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Z3n posted:I'd probably do the Kevin Schwantz school instead...from what I hear, the Keith Code stuff takes their time laying the groundwork and working your way up from the very, very basics. If you have the chance to do them all, it wouldn't be so bad, but just doing a 2-3 day school, I'd probably prefer the Schwantz school. This is the Scientology hokum part of the CSS program. That they literally have a "program" by which you pay increasingly vast amounts of money to access their "real riding technology". If you get to the top-level school you probably get to meet xenu or have your thetans audited or a scientology gift card or some poo poo. Best case Keith learned from the masters and it's a bit of a scam. Worst case your money is actually going to the Church of Scientology. I say this as someone who thought that ToTW 1 and 2 contained a lot of really helpful ways to approach circuit riding. Raffie, I suspect it's the bike. The faster and more expensive they get, the harder to exploit, the more concerned about dropping them you are. I think also you just don't have to ride them as hard to keep up, so they feel less frantic. You also had a ZX-10R, which I gather feels friskier than anything with similar horsepower? It may also be age and experience - I certainly pushed harder 10 or 15 years ago than I do today. You could always kick it old skool with a rusty air-cooled RD125, open face helmet, B&H gold (please don't light it, that poo poo is poisonous) and faded death metal t-shirt / baju melayu if it's a Friday. As I recall, this setup used to produce awesome and improbable corner speed.
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Oct 30, 2012 08:39
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Z3n posted:Are older 600s available? Graduated licensing means not really Z3N. AFAIK a 600 has always been in the top licence tier plus until relatively recently your average Malaysian didn't have 600 money to blow. Raffie, this is what I'm saying, you can't learni the true meaning of biking from scooter racers or people who aspire to a Proton Satria. You need to go on a spirit quest to find your inner Mat. Scour every kampung until you find that RD and its grizzled owner. Humble yourself before him! For only when you learn his secrets will you once again be master of the track! It's going to be a bit like Countryman, or Disney's Cars.
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Oct 30, 2012 18:04
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raffie posted:I'm actually a singapore citizen and only moved up here to kuala lumpur a few months back because we opened an office up here. I'm not even an official resident, my apartment is rented by the company and i'm on a tourist visa and paid by the singapore office. I just have to make sure i run out of the country to get my passport stamped every 30 days, although i drive back to singapore for most weekends anyway. Both my car and the MV are singapore-registered but parked up at the apartment here. That sounds like a great gig. Singapore seems to be pretty much turning into Hong Kong, although admittedly with slightly more charm - I looked at property prices recently and they were just retarded. By which I mean, even more retarded than they were 10 or 20 years ago. And in peninsular Malaysia you have somewhere to go on the bike.
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Nov 12, 2012 14:58
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| # ¿ Apr 29, 2024 01:45 |
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I see you got the mootmoot cans with it. In fact, check for blood and pieces of skull - if present, it might actually be his bike.
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Nov 20, 2012 09:31
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