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corb01772 posted:The Performance Mouse MX does not have bluetooth. It uses the same 2.4 GHz wireless as the MX Revolution. You are probably thinking of the mouse that comes with the MX 5500 mouse & keyboard bundle. That is the bluetooth version of the MX Revolution. Dammit, I got my hopes up. I want to be able to buy the mouse in the Cordless Desktop 5500 package without a keyboard. I have no use for the keyboard and a few people have said it does not work at all with OS X, but dammit I want a modern, FULL SIZE rechargable mouse which uses Bluetooth so I don't have to deal with stupid dongles. Every single computer I own has Bluetooth, there is no reason to reinvent the wheel with some proprietary 2.4GHz protocol when I have a nice open 2.4GHz wireless system already installed. No stupid dongle to break or to waste one of my precious USB ports.
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Nov 9, 2009 22:02
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Goo posted:Bluetooth is, generally speaking, not really great for gaming. Max report rate over BT is 125Hz/8ms and is not particularly consistent or stable. I have no idea about the jitter or power aspects of it, but this 125 Hz limit thing is misinformation that's gone around for years. Quoting from the Bluetooth HID Spec: quote:The recommended maximum data report rate for pointing devices and gaming devices is 125 data reports per second (same as low-speed USB). A HID data report will typically use two slots (1.25 ms) of time on a piconet, one for the master poll and one for the HID response. The designer should therefore be aware that a HID reporting at 100 per second will use 1/8 of the piconet bandwidth, and a device reporting at 800 per second will use all the piconet bandwidth. Although this profile does not mandate a maximum reporting rate, it is expected that Bluetooth HIDs be good “citizens” in this regard. The only bit about 125 Hz is a recommendation, not a limit. Unfortunately the newer versions of Bluetooth don't change the timeslot size, only the amount of data that can fit in one, so the 800 Hz limit looks like a hard one but that's still a big gap between what people actually built and what was possible. edit: Oh yea, the actual reason I came to this thread... Does anyone else other than Logitech offer a mouse with a clutched wheel? Gaming without clicks feels wrong, but the ability to whip down a long page in one shot is brilliant. I love the feel of Logitechs, but after having an MX510, two G5v1s, and now my MXRev all develop the same phantom click issue on the left button (and the middle on the MXRev) I'm hesitant to buy another one. The Razer Mamba looks interesting even without the magic wheel thanks to its dual-mode wired/wireless operation, but build quality seems to be questionable with a lot of reports of buttons malfunctioning out of the box or soon after purchase. It also looks a bit small in photos (haven't seen one in person) which would be a problem for me. For reference I'm one of the people who preferred the OG Xbox "Duke" controller to the "S" model, so I guess I have big hands compared to average gamers. wolrah fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 16:45
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wolrah posted:Does anyone else other than Logitech offer a mouse with a clutched wheel? Gaming without clicks feels wrong, but the ability to whip down a long page in one shot is brilliant. I love the feel of Logitechs, but after having an MX510, two G5v1s, and now my MXRev all develop the same phantom click issue on the left button (and the middle on the MXRev) I'm hesitant to buy another one. Quoting myself because I came across some things that ended up bringing me right back around to Logitech. First, apparently the "S" model G-line mice have new switches that supposedly finally resolve the inevitable button failures that plagued previous models. Second, the G700s offers the same dual-mode functionality as the Razer I mentioned. Needless to say, I now have a G700s on my desk and am so far pretty happy with it. The shape is good, the texture is good, plenty of buttons, and it has the wheel I know and love. Sort of disappointed that the autoclutch is gone, but manually clutching before whipping down a forum thread is worth it when the other choice was to not have the freewheel mode at all. The charge cable is stiffer than I'd prefer, that's my only real complaint right now though. Hopefully it'll wear in over time.
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Feb 7, 2014 00:53
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I have large hands and am quite happy with the feel of my G700s. It's been a while since I had a MX510 but I do believe this is larger. It's not wired (though it does support wired operation while charging, albeit with a stiff cable that's a bit annoying) and it has four thumb buttons rather than the usual two. The G500s which I'm pretty sure shares the same basic case is wired with a normal flexible wire and has two thumb buttons though. Maybe Goo can confirm/deny on the 500 and 700's case similarity. On that note, any other G700/700s owners who have found any way to soften the OEM cable or a third party replacement microUSB that fits properly and is more flexible? Sometimes I kill the battery during a long gaming session and it's a lot harder to make rapid precise movements with the stiff charge cord dragging around. I have a few cords for phones that fit, but they're all pretty much equally stiff. I'd love something like a G5's cord. edit: Just after I posted this I noticed one I'd never tried, the charge cord coming off the "puck" that came with my G930 headset. It's quite flexible and seems to charge fine, though it appears to be a charge-only cord so the mouse still communicates with the computer wirelessly. That said, I've never noticed any "wireless lag" with this mouse either, so it's still a solution to the bigger part of the problem. edit2: I did sit around bending the bundled cable for a bit when I got it, but I'll try putting some more time in to it. wolrah fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Mar 13, 2014 |
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Mar 13, 2014 23:09
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Ynglaur posted:I didn't realize using a non-standard cable means the mouse stays in wireless mode, albeit while still charging. However, I've never noticed any input lag either way. No, it doesn't. It's just that the specific cable I found to be sufficiently flexible, the charge cord from my G930 headset's desktop USB "puck", is a charge-only cord. It doesn't have the data lines hooked up as they're instead hooked to the USB port in top of the puck where the wireless transmitter is supposed to go. The other proper microUSB cables I've used, while no less stiff than the OEM cord, worked as expected for data transfer making the mouse work in wired mode.
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Mar 14, 2014 03:42
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Cathair posted:Okay, thanks for checking! Only reason I like denatured alcohol so much is that it's the best thing I've found for taking off skin oils without leaving any residue or film. It is relatively hazardous to use amongst a bunch of plastics though, and I use it sparingly.
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Apr 16, 2014 00:21
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Agreed posted:It sounds like it'll be a lot like the MX Revolution style click/free functionality. I'm betting the price of this product that I will love it! Actually the wheel is one area where the MX Rev is superior to current models. The MXRev could automatically switch between modes, where all the modern ones seem to have the physical toggle. Don't get me wrong, the toggle is OK, but the automatic mode was better and I got used to it. It's the only thing I consider a downgrade on the G700S.
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Apr 20, 2014 05:24
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kefkafloyd posted:I mean, I'll keep using it, because none of the other mice out there have really done it for me, but you don't have to force people to use the auto-clutch. Keep the manual unlock as the defualt, whatever. Just give me the clutch back. I'm with you everywhere except the bold part. Auto-clutch was so much better I still can't understand why it wasn't the default. I mean for a product introduced well in to the era of tabbed browsing, where middle click means open a new tab, why would anyone think it was a good idea to make clicking the wheel do something different? And why hide the greatest feature of that wheel? It was intuitive to anyone, scroll slow and you get clicks, scroll fast and you don't. Literally the only reason I'd install the official Logitech software with that mouse was to change the clutch mode. Otherwise I treated it as a plain USB HID mouse for reasons anyone who used Mouseware doesn't need explained.
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May 5, 2014 19:36
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Horizontal Tree posted:I really don't get the love for free scroll, as a gamer. The Mionix Naos I got has the best scroll wheel EVER. Stiff, low, very well indexed. If the Func MS-3 had the Naos scroll wheel, it'd be the absolute perfect mouse for me. Its the only thing on the Naos that I actually prefer over the MS-3. Free scroll is generally bad in games (at least most games) but that's the key to why the MXRev's wheel was so awesome. It only free scrolled when you really hit it hard. Otherwise it'd click firmly. I never once had it kick in to free mode when I didn't want it to, but when I wanted to get around in a long forum thread it was there for me with a flick of the wheel. That's the key for me, 99% of the time I want a firm, clicky wheel. That 1% of the time though the autoclutch is the greatest feature ever put in a mouse.
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May 6, 2014 01:01
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Anyone else having problems with the G700S not remembering its "on device" settings if LGS is closed and re-opened? Every few times my computer comes back from sleep LGS seems to forget the LCD on my G15 exists so I need to exit and relaunch it. The second I do that, I go from having five DPI settings enabled and defaulting to 6000 down to one entry with 1000 only. Clearly the settings are stored on the mouse as they work fine when I move the mouse to another computer, but LGS doesn't seem to like the idea of them sticking around.
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Jun 29, 2014 15:18
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The Lord Bude posted:Do MacBooks not have USB ports or something? Like many laptops they don't have enough. Mini-receivers have basically solved the "place laptop in bag, break stupid receiver and/or USB port" problem but it still doesn't solve a lot of laptops only having two USB ports. Sacrificing half your USB just for a mouse is really annoying when you know the laptop has Bluetooth and there's a great solution just sitting there staring you in the face, if only someone would make a mouse for it that wasn't some craptacular micro "portable" model.
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Aug 14, 2014 22:06
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Rexxed posted:Not to put Goo on the spot, but he's talked about bluetooth in the thread before and why it's not good for gaming mice: That's actually not true. We got in to this in February and I looked up the Bluetooth HID spec. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3222963&pagenumber=102&perpage=40#post425280863 quote:The recommended maximum data report rate for pointing devices and gaming devices is 125 data reports per second (same as low-speed USB). A HID data report will typically use two slots (1.25 ms) of time on a piconet, one for the master poll and one for the HID response. The designer should therefore be aware that a HID reporting at 100 per second will use 1/8 of the piconet bandwidth, and a device reporting at 800 per second will use all the piconet bandwidth. Although this profile does not mandate a maximum reporting rate, it is expected that Bluetooth HIDs be good “citizens” in this regard. He then said this: Goo posted:Every wireless engineer I've asked this question has told me that the BT HID chips we have available to us don't communicate faster than 8ms. I can ask again, but it's not for lack of interest in Bluetooth that we've gone with custom solutions. Ultimately it's for performance and ease of use. It's not that Bluetooth *can't* do it, but no one so far has bothered to make a chip that does it.
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Aug 15, 2014 00:13
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Jan posted:The G502 is the only one right now that does onboard macros, IIRC. G700s seems to have it as well, if the presence of "multikey macro" in the button configs while in on-board mode means anything.
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Aug 20, 2014 23:41
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Also every Mac made for quite a while has had Bluetooth standard where in the PC world it's still mostly optional even on nice laptops. Generally you get it because the WiFi chip just happened to do it as well, not because someone actively intended to put Bluetooth in it. On desktops I think Bluetooth is even more rare than Firewire.
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Oct 17, 2014 17:43
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Skwee posted:So my Logitech G5 is starting to die. Completely losing connection to my computer for short moments, or eternity unless I unplug it and plug it back in. That's possibly a cable issue, at least it was for my housemate. He grabbed the cable from my G5 with hosed microswitches (it's socketed internally) and his now works fine again. Not sure how hard it is to get a proper G5 cable, but if you're handy with a screwdriver and not afraid of electronics it's not exactly rocket science to replace the cable.
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Oct 18, 2014 02:31
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I was about to complain about the lack of search within threads since I remembered seeing Goo answer that, but then I scrolled to the top of the page and there it was. Since when has that been there? Is it a SALR thing? Nifty. Anyways here: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?action=showpost&postid=433361288
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Dec 17, 2014 06:11
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Every Logitech mouse I've ever owned has done the same thing after a year or two. That said, both of my housemates bought Razer mice a few months ago and they're already having the same problem, so it's not like the competition is better.
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Dec 25, 2014 23:26
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I've never had audio quality problems with my G930 headset and the things still feel solid after years of getting thrown in my backpack, slept on, etc. but I do have the random disconnect problem. A bunch of my friends also have or had G930s and experience the same issues, which obviously get much worse if we have a LAN party and get a bunch of them in the same room. I wish I could tell the things that I'd prefer bad audio to nothing at all. It seems like even when walking away from the base to test range it doesn't really have any falloff. It's just perfect->slightly garbled->nothing. It really needs more of a cell phone or lossy VoIP type behavior with bad signals.
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Feb 27, 2015 16:17
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I just picked up an Anker vertical mouse to use during the majority of my day when I'm just casually Is this just a flaw of the Anker unit or is this going to be pretty much inherent to any vertical mouse where the middle click is on the wheel in a "normal" position? If it's inherent to the design, are there any that move the wheel somewhere else or separate the third button in their default configuration? I prefer to not use mouse drivers where possible as I've had too many bad experiences with them adding lag and/or completely screwing up various standard mouse behaviors.
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Mar 10, 2015 22:11
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kefkafloyd posted:Dear Goo,  This is pretty much my wishlist mouse. Love the dual wireless and the return of the auto-clutch.Goo, do you know if it does like the G700s and switches to wired communication when plugged in, or is it just a charge connection? Not that it really matters for non-gaming applications, just curious.
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Mar 24, 2015 16:30
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But the auto wheel's the best part, why would you want to downgrade back to the toggle wheel? I say G700s + auto-wheel + dual wireless = best all-around mouse ever made. Unrelated, but a question that came up when talking about the new mouse with a coworker: Since laser vs. optical is basically a trade off between ultimate performance and multi-surface capability would it be possible to dig some of that old dual optical technology out of the vaults and build a mouse with both kinds of sensors? Even the ability to manually toggle between the two would probably make a lot of people happy, but some kind of automatic toggle or integration of both data sources could be even better.
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Mar 24, 2015 17:54
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Horizontal Tree posted:Toggle wheel is already polarizing as hell for people who use their mice for gaming, I can't imagine it being automatic would be anything even remotely good. As kefkafloyd noted the auto wheel has a toggle mode, it's even the default on the MX Revo until you install the software. As for gaming I think that's the greatest part about it. On my MX Revo I'd adjust the settings so it was notchy unless I really whipped it, in which case it unlocks. I never had a problem with it unlocking when I didn't want it during games, but I could still spin down a forum thread at a million miles an hour.
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Mar 24, 2015 18:54
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kefkafloyd posted:I have five different applications that have a different definition of back and forward, so using the driver's "back" and "forward' function doesn't work. I had to program each one properly in LCC, and now there's no way to do it in Options. Shouldn't this be directed at the app developers who decided to look for something non-standard instead of MOUSE4/MOUSE5? I've never had an app that supported those features require any configuration unless something like the Logitech software shoved its face in there and screwed up what the mouse was sending (see also: MOUSE3 in the mouseware era)
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Apr 8, 2015 19:41
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NihilCredo posted:brb buying compressed air Doing this with a G700S doesn't sound nearly as cool  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A13zNYxPOdM Got to be those larger nubs on the wheel, I imagine the internals of the wheel mech are pretty similar. I wonder how fast the wheel will actually track. It skipped around like hell when I put it over something scrollable at full speed, but I have no idea how one would actually measure that.
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May 4, 2015 23:19
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Cinara posted:Wow, I cannot say I have heard anyone complain about back/forward being bound to side buttons before. I consider it a requirement a mouse have side buttons and thought having back bound there was the best thing ever when I got my first Intellimouse. I guess if they were so sensitive the lightest touch would trigger them, but I have never seen a mouse like that. Likewise. Back and forward, looking at you G5 v1... buttons are mandatory for me. I use them all the time in browsers and other similar apps to the point that I get annoyed if an app that has back/forward as concepts in its UI doesn't support them. They're also great for secondary combat functions in games, I usually end up with grenades on the forward button and melee on back.
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May 8, 2015 19:16
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Hog Inspector posted:I'm having the annoying issue that my wireless mouse stops working when I plug in a USB 3.0 device. I googled the issue and apparently this is a common problem with wireless mice, something about signal interference. Are there any wireless mice that don't have this problem? http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/io/universal-serial-bus/usb3-frequency-interference-paper.html tl;dr: Because of how fast USB3 operates it effectively becomes a noise generator across an area of spectrum containing the 2.4GHz band. It's low enough power to still keep the FCC happy but means short-range wireless devices running in that spectrum are going to have trouble if near an operating USB3 link that's not well shielded. You can find a mouse that runs in a different band possibly, 900 is likely to be all ancient stuff but there are probably 5.8GHz mice somewhere. Unfortunately all the common ones seem to be 2.4 still. Other than that, separate your mouse receiver as far as you can from the USB3 devices, use high quality cables with good shielding, and if need be put some metal between the interference sources and the mouse.
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Oct 16, 2015 18:07
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Goo posted:I have been complaining about profiles resetting for years. QA and engineering teams tell me they can't replicate, therefore can't fix. Do you have any more information you can give me? With the MX Revolution (I know not a LGS device and thus maybe not related) it happened every time the mouse was switched off or ran out of battery. With the G700S for a time I could cause it every single time I rebooted to Linux and then went back to Windows. The profiles would work as normal when in Linux, even through reboots, but once I then went back to Windows it would break. That hasn't happened in a while, I'm pretty sure it stopped doing that the last time I updated LGS, but it did happen to me once the other day when I rebooted while I had the mouse in wireless mode.
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Feb 5, 2016 00:49
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henne posted:Would there be interest in quantified sensor acceleration data? I have access to very accurate linear motion devices and could probably store mouse output at different travel rates and pull accel from there. I'd be very interested purely from a data nerd perspective. You can never have too much hard data, especially when it comes to things like input devices that people love to argue about on the internet.
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Mar 2, 2016 00:16
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Boris Galerkin posted:Holy poo poo I take it all back. The auto speed scrolling thing is awesome. I'm sitting at home right now and I opened up a long website and just wanted to get to the bottom so I tried to just spin the wheel down and let it do it's thing only to realize my mouse at home doesn't do this. Exactly why I wish the gaming mice offered that feature. I got addicted to it on the MX Revolution, it's so nice to have the clicky mode by default but just be able to whip the wheel to get down a long page. I'm probably buying a MX Master for non-gaming use to get that back.
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Apr 1, 2016 14:35
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ColHannibal posted:Its patented by Logitech so probably not going to happen. henne posted:My g502 has a button that puts the wheel in free spin mode if that's what you want
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Apr 2, 2016 15:12
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Goo posted:The automatic one is significantly more costly and is heavier than the manual one. For gaming, it's more important to spend the component dollars on things like sensor performance and to focus on weight reduction. Completely get the cost thing, but am I weird for having always run my G5 with all weights installed? I don't play twitch games and think a bit of weight feels better for desktop use. I know I'm not a typical gamer, just curious how far off the norm I am.
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Apr 4, 2016 03:45
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Mister Fister posted:Hmmm, i'm somewhat intrigued, it has a wired option too! If you like the shape you'll probably like this mouse. I love mine, and seeing it's at $50 now has me considering buying another for use with my laptop (though I really want to get a MX Master for that so I don't have to use a dongle). When it's plugged in (with a standard MicroUSB cord, so you can use your own if you prefer) it is a wired mouse. It's not just hooked up for charging like an Xbox 360 controller, it's gone full wired. The delay when switching is nearly imperceptibly small, unless you're trying to literally unplug/plug while you move the mouse you'll never see it.
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Jun 21, 2016 23:52
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Ephphatha posted:I was charging it daily. I'd get around 7 hours of active use out of a charge before it stopped responding completely. It also had a severe amount of idle drain, if I used the computer in the morning before work and I forgot to plug it in I'd find it at less than half charge when I came home. It's entirely possible this could've been improved somewhat with a firmware update but from what I saw that was pretty close to typical for this mouse. I've heard it's very variable depending on what mode you have it in. I mostly run mine wired so I keep it at the max power, max refresh rate setting. Actively using it wirelessly at that setting seems to last 6-8 hours (though I haven't done that much), in the far more common situation where I go wireless, use it for an hour or two, and then go do something else while forgetting to plug it in it's almost always been usable in the morning though red and complaining. I've never actually used it on power saver mode, so for the sake of curiosity I'm going wireless right now with it set to power saver and 125Hz refresh. This should be an ideal case for its battery, though mine may not be in the greatest condition due to having been kept at full charge almost continuously for however long I've had it (a year or two I think) Let's see how long it lasts.
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Sep 16, 2016 17:12
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wolrah posted:I've never actually used it on power saver mode, so for the sake of curiosity I'm going wireless right now with it set to power saver and 125Hz refresh. This should be an ideal case for its battery, though mine may not be in the greatest condition due to having been kept at full charge almost continuously for however long I've had it (a year or two I think) Let's see how long it lasts. I did this experiment and got the 10% warning pretty much exactly 24 hours later, at 12:10 today. There was about 10 hours of desktop type use over that time.
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Sep 18, 2016 02:26
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Horizontal Tree posted:Get something with a USB dongle, not bluetooth, if it is at all an option. This, unfortunately. The short version is that while (contrary to popular belief) Bluetooth is 100% capable of doing everything USB does, including 1000Hz updates, for a variety of reasons no one actually has implemented a mouse which uses Bluetooth to the fullest. The best wireless mice always use proprietary wireless communications, while Bluetooth is mostly relegated to tiny terrible "travel mice". The Logitech MX Master is one of the few high quality full-size Bluetooth mice I'm aware of, but I'm pretty sure it still limits its capabilities in Bluetooth mode compared to using the proprietary dongle.
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Dec 31, 2016 23:21
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Enourmo posted:The wireless 403 is $80 even after discount, and I've got an irrational bias against wireless mice; my first experience was with a 2000-era wireless ball mouse that had terrible connectivity and chewed through AA batteries, and even though logically I know that's about as relevant to modern hardware as a Model T, I can't help but side-eye them to this day. It looks like the 403 can be switched to wired the same as my 700S. If that's the case it's a win-win. You get all the convenience of wireless when you want it, but can go wired at any time. For the additional $20 that's a no-brainer if you've ever been annoyed by the wire.
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Jan 1, 2017 04:59
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Mutant Standard posted:maybe a mouse that comes with a mousepad that wirelessly charges the mouse? and then you can make that solar/friction powered? To be honest a mousepad supporting some sort of wireless charging doesn't seem like a horrible idea. Better than a charging dock.
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Jan 29, 2017 04:42
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Two MX500s, a G5v1, and a MX Revolution lasted me about three years a piece before starting to do the double click thing. That said the issue isn't exclusive to Logitech, my previous two Microsoft Intellimouse Opticals before the MX500s died the same exact death. My old school Intellimouse Wheel was the last mouse I had that didn't start having some click problem in its life, but as a ball mouse it had its own problems. I think I'm getting up there towards three years now with my G700S and it hasn't shown signs of the problem yet, but at the same time I'm kind of looking for an excuse to get a MX Master. wolrah fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Feb 7, 2017 |
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Feb 7, 2017 03:00
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Lolcano Eruption posted:Nah. Batteries are way more convenient for an office environment. Hoping that random employees remember to keep their mouse charged is too much to ask for. Non-gaming wireless mice last for 6 months to 1 year on a battery anyways. IMO the G700S has the perfect configurationm, which I think has been adopted by most of the higher end Logitech wireless line at this point.. It's rechargeable, using a single NiMH AA. Replacements are readily available at any retail store with a battery rack and a non-rechargeable AA can be used to power the mouse in a pinch. Charging is done over USB using a standard Micro-B port on the front of the mouse and it can operate entirely wired without the dongle when plugged in. IMO just having the thing plugged and working as a wired mouse in during the 95% of the time that I don't need wireless is the most convenient option, and certainly the most sane for an office environment.
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Apr 24, 2017 18:48
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Wasabi the J posted:Harmony was always loving garbage. Noble misguided garbage. Yet somehow still a million times better than the competition. They have some definite design flaws and their mandatory wizard-based configuration is annoying when you just want to change one little thing that's eleven menus deep, but I have yet to find another remote with the concept of activities which allowed the user to program it themselves. Everything else that even comes close to the functionality of a Harmony is "contact your local professional installer" and gently caress everything about that. It's a remote control, not some super-precise machine. I can configure it myself.
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Nov 8, 2017 19:41
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